On 13 Apr 2005 11:39:23 -0700, "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> should have written:
The French Open and Wimbledon - two "Blue Chip" slams within 2 weeks >of each other. Many - everywhere but the U.S. - think they are the two >most important slams of all 4.
Only the greatest were able to win back-to-back French Open and Wimbledon >crowns (= in the same year):
(Fill in your much, much shorter list here)
No Sampras, no Agassi, no Lendl, no McEnroe, no Becker, no Federer, etc., etc.
Again, knock off 93/95/96 since those USO titles were courtesy of the stabber.
You've performed a useful service by reminding us how much of Graf's legacy lies in the USO and FO titles gifted to her by the stabber. Take those out and Graf falls from #1 open era to arguably #3 or #4.
-- "The federal judiciary is working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of all be consolidated into one (i.e., federalization)"
And I'm sure you'd be a> zealously arguing the other way had it been Graf that was stabbed,> right?> Or would it sound more like, "Sure it was sad what happened to> Steffi. But Monica was the better player and would have won anyways."
Depends on the events. If Seles then went on and won USO/FO/AO between 93-96, i would argue "Seles was better and woulda won anyways" since she had been winning those events anyways even with Graf around.
But if Seles than won 93-96 Wimbledon titles, i'd argue "the stabber gifted Seles with those W titles", because Seles wasn't able to win them when Graf was around - Graf had been winning them.
Makes sense, no?
-- "The federal judiciary is working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of all be consolidated into one (i.e., federalization)"
You've performed a useful service by reminding us how much of Graf's> legacy> > lies in the USO and FO titles gifted to her by the stabber. Take> those out> > and Graf falls from #1 open era to arguably #3 or #4.
You are right - I should have added coulda-woulda Wim/USO combos.> Graf 11 times (88, 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99).>
1990: Without media hunting Graf because of blackmail family scandal
ROFLMFAO! Didn't you get the memo? That was definitively de-bunked.
All the others are normal tennis-related events (injuries, etc.) that are a normal part of the game.
But a #2 player suddenly winning everything in sight because the #1 player who had been winning them got stabbed by a fan of the #2 player who was sick of the #2 player not winning is an extra-ordinary event.
Unprecedented, in fact.
-- "The federal judiciary is working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of all be consolidated into one (i.e., federalization)"
And I'm sure you'd be a>>zealously arguing the other way had it been Graf that was stabbed,>>right?>>Or would it sound more like, "Sure it was sad what happened to>>Steffi. But Monica was the better player and would have won anyways.">
Depends on the events. If Seles then went on and won USO/FO/AO between> 93-96, i would argue "Seles was better and woulda won anyways" since she had> been winning those events anyways even with Graf around.>
But if Seles than won 93-96 Wimbledon titles, i'd argue "the stabber gifted> Seles with those W titles", because Seles wasn't able to win them when Graf> was around - Graf had been winning them.>
But a #2 player suddenly winning everything in sight because the #1> player> > who had been winning them got stabbed by a fan of the #2 player who> was sick> > of the #2 player not winning is an extra-ordinary event. ....>
Suddenly winning everything in sight because she was making slam finals> again.
Yes, because her morale soared once Seles was off the radar. Before then, except at W she went into quarters and semis with a "down" attitude (what's the point of making the final if i have to play Seles there?). With Seles gone and the path clear, it was full-steam-ahead.
Beyond that, she and Seles played 3 non-W slam finals during "slump", and the record was 3-0 for Seles.
-- "The federal judiciary is working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of all be consolidated into one (i.e., federalization)"
No.> Your problem is that Seles made the semis of better at Wimbledon only> ONCE during her very long career.
Meaningless, since she made W finals the last year before her stabbing so some dumb Seles fan could claim she was "improving" and therefore on verge of taking over at W.
I'd retort by saying "pure speculation", when Seles was around from 90-92 she couldn't win W and Graf owned the event..
-- "The federal judiciary is working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of all be consolidated into one (i.e., federalization)"
Meaningless, since she made W finals the last year before her> stabbing so> > some dumb Seles fan could claim she was "improving" and therefore on> verge> > of taking over at W.> >
I'd retort by saying "pure speculation", when Seles was around from> 90-92> > she couldn't win W and Graf owned the event..>
Seles returned after The Stabbing in 1995 only 21 years old.
Meaningless, since she returned fat after a 2.5 yr hiatus.
Why keep arguing against the obvious..?
-- "The federal judiciary is working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of all be consolidated into one (i.e., federalization)"
Seles returned after The Stabbing in 1995 only 21 years old.> >
Meaningless, since she returned fat after a 2.5 yr hiatus. ....>
And she stayed fat.
Yes. Evidently, she developed bad habits while off the tour that she just wasn't able (or perhaps willing) to shake.
But that means nothing as far as indicating whether she would have developed those bad habits had she not left the tour. If anything, probably not.
That suggests that she would have become fat even without The Stabbing.> We must not forget that she visibly gained weight already in 92/93.
Even if so, this just means that Graf won all those FO and USOs between 93-96 because Seles declined from her peak. She lucked out.
Hell, we already know she lucked out. Graf was looking like she'd won just about all the slams she was going to win - lucky to cash in 8 of them post-MN and pre-Seles, when all of a sudden the tennis gods (in the form of "parche") decided to gift her with a whole nother career...
-- "if federal judges have the final word over its meaning, the Constitution would be a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please".
Seles returned after The Stabbing in 1995 only 21 years old.>>>
Meaningless, since she returned fat after a 2.5 yr hiatus. ....>>
And she stayed fat.>
Yes. Evidently, she developed bad habits while off the tour that she just> wasn't able (or perhaps willing) to shake.>
But that means nothing as far as indicating whether she would have developed> those bad habits had she not left the tour. If anything, probably not.>
That suggests that she would have become fat even without The Stabbing.>>We must not forget that she visibly gained weight already in 92/93.>
Even if so, this just means that Graf won all those FO and USOs between> 93-96 because Seles declined from her peak. She lucked out.
Yes, that's defensible. But then we all know greatness means maintaining top-notch form for a decade or so - no point being best ever in 1 game, or 1 tournament (like maybe Flip?).....
Wimbledon and US Open - two "Blue Chip" slams within 2 months.>
blue chip????? Man! everybody has been inflicted by that mad dog> Whisper!>
The 4 slams are the biggest tournaments, right? 3 of them are on different surfaces, & AO is never gonna rate > USO so it becomes a lesser title. Why have 2 slams on same surface? One has to rate higher. Anyone wanting to point out AO surface is different don't bother.
Now stop wasting bandwidth - consider yourself lucky I rate FO a blue-chip - if bob had his way.....
