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Re: Did Connors own Lendl at their peaks?
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GYXU > Tennis > Re: Did Connors own Lendl at their peaks? 14 April 2005 02:19:11

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Re: Did Connors own Lendl at their peaks?

Lloyd 14 April 2005 02:19:11
 
"Raja" <krisraja@cs.uh.edu­> wrote in message
news:1112938294.600­321.193710@f14g2000c­wb.googlegroups.com.­..
Still it is 7-5 in Lendl's favor. boob, you are right, Connors owned> Lendl. And don't forget Lendl won 16 of their next 16 encounters.

Bob doesn't worry about dry old facts. Not when he has these GUT-FEELINGS
about things.............­


Add comment
StephenJ 8 April 2005 18:08:52 permanent link ]
 
Still it is 7-5 in Lendl's favor.

3-0 connors at the slams, dunkoff.


--
"The federal judiciary is working like gravity by night and by day,
gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing
its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until
all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of
all be consolidated into one (i.e., federalization)"

- Thomas Jefferson


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Mikko Дmmдlд 8 April 2005 21:45:41 permanent link ]
 The reason why Connors rapidly faded against Lendl after 1983 was simple:

As like Evert spoiled mid 83-84 staying with wood (when Navratilova went
graffite), Connors stayed far too long with his old iron Wilson racket
(changed 86-87?). I remember one interview mid 80:ies when Connors
complained (about rackets) smt like "Throughout the match I did hit some
really good shots to run my opponent, he then did hit bad shots back which
still kept me even more busy".

.mikko



Add comment
Mikko Дmmдlд 8 April 2005 22:29:11 permanent link ]
 
When did Lendl, Wilander, Connors and McEnroe make the switch from wood>to graphite?

Connors 86 (though Connors did not play with wood, but Wilson T-model which
was made from iron (and was ancient and generally considered very bad
racketf)
Lendl early 84
Mac 83 (Does anyone remember, did Mac play graffite 83 Wimbledon)
Wilander probably 84 but can be 83

.mikko


Add comment
Whisper 8 April 2005 23:37:47 permanent link ]
 drew wrote:> Raja wrote:>
bob (one of the worst Tier 4 analysts) claims Lendl was scared of>>Connors>>
Lendl's peak was from 1985-87. Connors peak was 1974-76. Anyway>
Connors>
made Wimbledon final in 1984. So we can say he played semi-peak till>>1984. Lets say Lendl who won Masters in January 1982 and January>
1983,>
was also at semi peak (which is not same as peak). So what was their>>head-head from 1982-84?>>
Can't deal with this objectively because there is a big difference in> the ages of the players but it is fair to say that Lendl improved a lot> from his early Choke-o-Slovakian days. It would also be fair to say> that Connors didn't lose much of his game until after his mid-30s and> was still remarkably competitive at 39. Lendl caught up to Connors> and surpassed his game. Like the younger McEnroe, Connors couldn't> beat prime Lendl. Unlike Connors, McEnroe didn't have age as an> excuse.>


Mac/Jimbo don't need excuses - facts are facts. They both whipped him
at peaks & he was little opposition in the face of real talent. Both
won 7 Wim/USO v Lendl's 3 - completely different tiers.....

Jimbo was a shell of his former best after '84.....
Add comment
Mikko Дmmдlд 9 April 2005 00:09:26 permanent link ]
 
"ccrevival" <ccrevival2001@yaho­o.com> kirjoitti viestissд
news:1112990359.102­215.93340@z14g2000cw­z.googlegroups.com..­.> For me, no matter how many times Lendl beat him, I will always rank> Connors over him, simply because of the WAY the Czech-choker played> against Jimbo. Against every other top player during his career (Borg,> Mac, Wilander, Edberg, Becker, etc.) Ivan hit all out and went for it> on his topspin backhand. HOWEVER, whenever he played Connors, he> continuously chipped his backhand to Jimbo's forehand (ie. Arthur> Ashe's W strategy). Instead of trying to overpower him by trading hard> groundies, Lendl tried to score points by goading Jimmy into hitting> forehand errors.

That is quite true. I think that after Lendl himself improved (especially
Lendl's bh and all-around game improved a lot from 83 to 85 and onwards) and
Connors declined, Lendl just had a room for humiliate Connors to make US
82/83 less painfull.

.mikko


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Bob 9 April 2005 01:20:38 permanent link ]
 "Raja" <krisraja@cs.uh.edu­> wrote in message
news:1112937740.056­645.180330@z14g2000c­wz.googlegroups.com.­..> bob (one of the worst Tier 4 analysts) claims Lendl was scared of> Connors

he was..i saw it in his eyes..never understood it..lendl's game fell apart
with connors' 1st fist pump..pissed me off too.
Lendl's peak was from 1985-87. Connors peak was 1974-76. Anyway Connors> made Wimbledon final in 1984. So we can say he played semi-peak till> 1984. Lets say Lendl who won Masters in January 1982 and January 1983,> was also at semi peak (which is not same as peak). So what was their> head-head from 1982-84?>
Lendl vs Connors 1982-84

lendl was FAR closer to his peak then than connors was..

bob


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Bob 9 April 2005 01:22:37 permanent link ]
 
"The Terminator" <villainintown@redi­ffmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112939973.404­290.276270@l41g2000c­wc.googlegroups.com.­..> Lloyd wrote:>> "Raja" <krisraja@cs.uh.edu­> wrote in message>> news:1112938294.600­321.193710@f14g2000c­wb.googlegroups.com.­..>>
Still it is 7-5 in Lendl's favor. boob, you are right, Connors> owned>> > Lendl. And don't forget Lendl won 16 of their next 16 encounters.>>
Bob doesn't worry about dry old facts. Not when he has these> GUT-FEELINGS>> about things.............­>
bob is clairvoyant... he senses things which nobody can. He is like a> dog. He can smell, sniff, sense everything. What players are thinking?> How much effort the players is putting? etc...etc...

that happens when you attend tournament live and spend lots of time in
player lounge hanging out..not clairvoyant really, quite obvious.

bob


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Bob 9 April 2005 01:25:41 permanent link ]
 
"Raja" <krisraja@cs.uh.edu­> wrote in message
news:1112938294.600­321.193710@f14g2000c­wb.googlegroups.com.­..> Raja wrote:>> bob (one of the worst Tier 4 analysts) claims Lendl was scared of>> Connors>>
Lendl's peak was from 1985-87. Connors peak was 1974-76. Anyway> Connors>> made Wimbledon final in 1984. So we can say he played semi-peak till>> 1984. Lets say Lendl who won Masters in January 1982 and January> 1983,>> was also at semi peak (which is not same as peak). So what was their>> head-head from 1982-84?>>
Okay I forgot to add the 1982 matches>
1982 U.S. Open FR Hard (O) J.CONNORS 6-3 6-2 4-6 6-4> 1983 Masters SF Carpet (I) I.LENDL 3-6 1-6> 1983 U.S. Open FR Hard (O) J.CONNORS 6-3 6-7 7-5 6-0> 1984 Masters SF Carpet (I) I.LENDL 3-6 4-6> 1984 Wimbledon SF Grass (O) J.CONNORS 6-7 6-3 7-5 6-1

it's 3-2 for old man connors considering slams/masters..and 3-0 in 3 of the
absolutely biggest matches of the 82-84 timeframe..

and i didn't like connors, i don't like having to do this.

bob


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Bob 9 April 2005 01:29:57 permanent link ]
 
"ccrevival" <ccrevival2001@yaho­o.com> wrote in message
news:1112990359.102­215.93340@z14g2000cw­z.googlegroups.com..­.> For me, no matter how many times Lendl beat him, I will always rank> Connors over him, simply because of the WAY the Czech-choker played> against Jimbo. Against every other top player during his career (Borg,> Mac, Wilander, Edberg, Becker, etc.) Ivan hit all out and went for it> on his topspin backhand. HOWEVER, whenever he played Connors, he> continuously chipped his backhand to Jimbo's forehand (ie. Arthur> Ashe's W strategy). Instead of trying to overpower him by trading hard> groundies, Lendl tried to score points by goading Jimmy into hitting> forehand errors. Furthermore, as Connors got older and slower, Lendl> would chip even MORE!! I know Jimmy gives Ivan match-up problems (RoS> and backhand negates Lendl's serve and forehand) but to play "bunting"> tennis all the time just seems weak to me.

nailed lendl/connors to a T..

i don't know why lendl was so intimidated of connors, there wasn't a good
reason to be, but he was, you could see it in his strokes..again, good
post..

bob


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Bob 9 April 2005 01:31:45 permanent link ]
 
"Mikko Дmmдlд" <michaelb@deletethi­s.mail.suomi.net> wrote in message
news:d36fm3$dq1$1@p­laza.suomi.net...> The reason why Connors rapidly faded against Lendl after 1983 was simple:>
As like Evert spoiled mid 83-84 staying with wood (when Navratilova went> graffite), Connors stayed far too long with his old iron Wilson racket> (changed 86-87?). I remember one interview mid 80:ies when Connors> complained (about rackets) smt like "Throughout the match I did hit some> really good shots to run my opponent, he then did hit bad shots back which> still kept me even more busy".

it's quite ridiculous to even compare connors/lendl head/heads as they truly
were from different eras..but heck, connors STILL managed to win their most
important meetings.

bob


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StephenJ 9 April 2005 07:46:53 permanent link ]
 
Ivan was intimidated because his game could not intimidate Jimbo. Lendl> was not able to get as many free points or weak returns with his serve> against Jimmy because the latter's RoS was so good. I remember those> USO finals where Jimmy would routinely fire back returns right at> Ivan's feet or for outright winners (I also remember the crowd going> "whoaw!" whenever that happened.) Also, as awesome as a weapon it was,> Lendl's forehand became somewhat of a liablity against Connors' since> he seemed to thrive on it's pace, especially when the former hit it> towards the latter's patented dhb.

Very good analysis. At 82 USO, Mac was intimidated by Lendl's big hitting.
He had a look of fear in his eyes. But Connors never feared anyone and as
you note he surprised Lendl by not only not being intimidate but by daring
to play to Lendl's strength - his forehand. Connors consistently challenged
Lendl's forehand with deep drives into the corner both in rallies and on the
RoS. He had no problem trading two-handed backhands with Lendl's FH and kept
Lenld off-balance with it.

And he exploited Lendl's BH as well. He noted that Lendl was much more
effective when hitting backhands from the corner, where his great knee-bend
allowed Lendl to tee-off on it either crosscourt or down the line, so he
kept the ball towards the center of the court and forced Lendl to create
angles off the BH side, and he wasn't able to do it. His knee-bend style was
a liability, because he couldn't generate pace and create angles at the same
time and would consistently net those shots.

--
"The federal judiciary is working like gravity by night and by day,
gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing
its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until
all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of
all be consolidated into one (i.e., federalization)"

- Thomas Jefferson


Add comment
Lloyd 9 April 2005 14:49:11 permanent link ]
 
"Mikko Дmmдlд" <michaelb@deletethi­s.mail.suomi.net> wrote in message
news:d36ih3$ftn$1@p­laza.suomi.net...
Connors 86 (though Connors did not play with wood, but Wilson T-model
which> was made from iron (and was ancient and generally considered very bad> racketf)

Wrong! Connors switched in 1984 but switched back from time to time.
Lendl early 84

Wrong! Lendl ALWAYS used Kneissl/Adidas fibreglass or graphite........
Mac 83 (Does anyone remember, did Mac play graffite 83 Wimbledon)> Wilander probably 84 but can be 83

Wrong! Mac switched in 1982 and Wilander ALWAYS used Rossignol
graphite........


Add comment
Whisper 9 April 2005 15:57:27 permanent link ]
 bob wrote:
"Raja" <krisraja@cs.uh.edu­> wrote in message > news:1112938294.600­321.193710@f14g2000c­wb.googlegroups.com.­..>
Raja wrote:>>
bob (one of the worst Tier 4 analysts) claims Lendl was scared of>>>Connors>>>
Lendl's peak was from 1985-87. Connors peak was 1974-76. Anyway>>
Connors>>
made Wimbledon final in 1984. So we can say he played semi-peak till>>>1984. Lets say Lendl who won Masters in January 1982 and January>>
1983,>>
was also at semi peak (which is not same as peak). So what was their>>>head-head from 1982-84?>>>
Okay I forgot to add the 1982 matches>>
1982 U.S. Open FR Hard (O) J.CONNORS 6-3 6-2 4-6 6-4>>1983 Masters SF Carpet (I) I.LENDL 3-6 1-6>>1983 U.S. Open FR Hard (O) J.CONNORS 6-3 6-7 7-5 6-0>>1984 Masters SF Carpet (I) I.LENDL 3-6 4-6>>1984 Wimbledon SF Grass (O) J.CONNORS 6-7 6-3 7-5 6-1>
it's 3-2 for old man connors considering slams/masters..and 3-0 in 3 of the > absolutely biggest matches of the 82-84 timeframe..>
and i didn't like connors, i don't like having to do this.>
bob >


Yes, but being an objective analyst you must fulfill your obligation to
the tennis community & call it like it is.

Raja/Lloyd are bastardising the game.....
Add comment
Whisper 9 April 2005 16:16:57 permanent link ]
 ccrevival wrote:
Ivan was intimidated because his game could not intimidate Jimbo. Lendl> was not able to get as many free points or weak returns with his serve> against Jimmy because the latter's RoS was so good. I remember those> USO finals where Jimmy would routinely fire back returns right at> Ivan's feet or for outright winners (I also remember the crowd going> "whoaw!" whenever that happened.) Also, as awesome as a weapon it was,> Lendl's forehand became somewhat of a liablity against Connors' since> he seemed to thrive on it's pace, especially when the former hit it> towards the latter's patented dhb.>
So, instead of playing his standard "power" game, Lendl went the other> extreme: he "bunted" the ball. Compare that to how Borg played Mac or> how Wilander developed; these guys attacked and got more aggressive> when playing against better opponents whereas Lendl got more defensive> (even more so as Connors got older and slower!). That is weak to me,> especially considering Lendl's rep as a "power" player.>


Lendl did beat Jimbo once at USO with the bunting - but Jimbo was 57 yrs
old at the time I think....?


(even so he took 1st set 6-3)....
Add comment
Whisper 9 April 2005 16:33:31 permanent link ]
 ccrevival wrote:
Good points on Lendl's bh weakness vs. Jimbo. Overall, Ivan did not> have much of a ad over him. Lendl was fortunate during his best years> that Borg and Connors retired or got old.>


Yes, he's very much a transitional champ.

Very consistent, but very much transitional. All the best guys beat him
when they played close to their best. Heck even Cash beat him at 3
slams, so any good player had the edge at their best....

Add comment
Whisper 9 April 2005 16:34:21 permanent link ]
 ccrevival wrote:
The only reason why Lendl "killed" Connors 16 times in a row was> because Jimbo continued to play way beyond 32 years old (vs Sampras> retiring at 31). The fact that Jimmy (at 32+) still beat a 24 year old> Ivan twice (6-0 and 6-1 in the final sets!) in 1984 speak volumes for> Connors.>


Yes, & everyone knows I rate Jimbo tier 2 & Lendl tier 3.

Now you have an idea why....

Add comment
Whisper 9 April 2005 17:16:15 permanent link ]
 Lloyd wrote:
"Mikko Г„mmГ¤lГ¤" <michaelb@deletethi­s.mail.suomi.net> wrote in message> news:d36ih3$ftn$1@p­laza.suomi.net...>
Connors 86 (though Connors did not play with wood, but Wilson T-model>
which>
was made from iron (and was ancient and generally considered very bad>>racketf)>
Wrong! Connors switched in 1984 but switched back from time to time.>
Lendl early 84>
Wrong! Lendl ALWAYS used Kneissl/Adidas fibreglass or graphite........>
Mac 83 (Does anyone remember, did Mac play graffite 83 Wimbledon)>>Wilande­r probably 84 but can be 83>
Wrong! Mac switched in 1982

'83. He was using wood at '82 USO.

Add comment
StephenJ 9 April 2005 18:01:46 permanent link ]
 
Yes, he's very much a transitional champ.>
Very consistent, but very much transitional. All the best guys beat him> when they played close to their best. Heck even Cash beat him at 3> slams, so any good player had the edge at their best....

Good way of putting it. Sheesh, i didn't know Cash beat him at 3 slams...
who did Lendl ever beat peak-prime at slams? Just about nobody...


--
"The federal judiciary is working like gravity by night and by day,
gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing
its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until
all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of
all be consolidated into one (i.e., federalization)"

- Thomas Jefferson


Add comment
Lloyd 10 April 2005 09:02:03 permanent link ]
 
"Mikko Дmmдlд" <michaelb@deletethi­s.mail.suomi.net> wrote in message
news:d38e0t$kdv$1@p­laza.suomi.net...
Wrong! Lendl ALWAYS used Kneissl/Adidas fibreglass or graphite........>
I recall that Lendl definitely played with wood 82 Masters (played 83
Jan).> Though Lendl's fibreclass racket was hybrid of wood and fibreclass.

Sorry. The Kneissl didn't have any wood in it.............
Wrong! Mac switched in 1982 and Wilander ALWAYS used Rossignol> > graphite........>
Both 82 already?. Did he played Wimbledon 82 with wood? That was a
surprise.

No, he ALWAYS used a Rossignol graphite composite........


Add comment
Lloyd 10 April 2005 09:12:53 permanent link ]
 
"Whisper" <beaver999@ozemail.­com.au> wrote in message
news:wAQ5e.485$R57.­12733@nnrp1.ozemail.­com.au...
Wrong! Mac switched in 1982>
'83. He was using wood at '82 USO.

In August/September . He switched at the end of 1982 and used it in the
Masters......


Add comment


Lloyd 10 April 2005 09:34:07 permanent link ]
 
"Raja" <krisraja@cs.uh.edu­> wrote in message
news:1113110441.454­642.157230@g14g2000c­wa.googlegroups.com.­..
Lloyd wrote:
Sorry. The Kneissl didn't have any wood in it.............

Did it have any graphite?

It was graphite/composite with NO wood......

What did Mac/Lendl use in 1983 (January) Masters final which Lendl won
in straight sets?

Lendl his Kneissl, Mac a Dunlop graphite Max200G.

What racket did Connors use? Did he ever use wooden
rackets?

Wilson T2000. Used a wood as a kid.



Add comment
Lloyd 10 April 2005 09:56:25 permanent link ]
 
"Raja" <krisraja@cs.uh.edu­> wrote in message
news:1113111948.313­333.100430@z14g2000c­wz.googlegroups.com.­..
Okay, did Lendl ever change his rackets? Did he ever use wooden> rackets? And if yes when did he stop using it?

Lendl used wood as a kid but changed before I first saw him play around
1981.
Not sure when........


Add comment


Whisper 10 April 2005 13:23:00 permanent link ]
 Lloyd wrote:
"Whisper" <beaver999@ozemail.­com.au> wrote in message> news:wAQ5e.485$R57.­12733@nnrp1.ozemail.­com.au...>
Wrong! Mac switched in 1982>>
'83. He was using wood at '82 USO.>
In August/September . He switched at the end of 1982 and used it in the> Masters......>


Yes, that apalling loss to Lendl at USO convinced him to make switch....
Add comment
Mikko Дmmдlд 10 April 2005 20:04:11 permanent link ]
 Last (men) slam finalist who played with wood is credited to Curren (AO 84)

.mikko


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Lloyd 12 April 2005 08:08:56 permanent link ]
 
"Mikko Дmmдlд" <michaelb@deletethi­s.mail.suomi.net> wrote in message
news:d3bifm$q5a$1@p­laza.suomi.net...> Last (men) slam finalist who played with wood is credited to Curren (AO
84)

What did Mecir use? I'm sure it was wood..........


Add comment
Bob 14 April 2005 02:19:11 permanent link ]
 
"Lloyd" <watiyinna@"remove this to reply" smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:d3fhkn$ivm$1@n­ews-01.bur.connect.c­om.au...>
"Mikko Дmmдlд" <michaelb@deletethi­s.mail.suomi.net> wrote in message> news:d3bifm$q5a$1@p­laza.suomi.net...>> Last (men) slam finalist who played with wood is credited to Curren (AO> 84)>
What did Mecir use? I'm sure it was wood.....

i don't think so.............

bob


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GYXU > Tennis > Re: Did Connors own Lendl at their peaks? 14 April 2005 02:19:11

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