On Oct 12, 3:13 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
On 12 Oct 2007 11:52:24 -0700, blanders0...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Oct 12, 10:54 am, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
stephenj wrote:
Whisper wrote:
RuPEDski wrote:
"stephenj" <s...@cox.net> wrote in message
Again, this is a juevnile attempt to twist the words. Amazingly
you
went from "Becker had a slightly higher average speed than
Tanner(about 4mph), but slower max speed" to "nobody from 30 years
ago had a big serve by today's standards." Even the dumbest reader
can see how silly that is.
Let's test that - Hazel?
you want to stay clear of rupe on this one- his own numbers show
he's
way off his rocker. don't be guilty by association ...
I am willing to concede that you love an argument as much as RuPEDski
and that you will both claim victory ceaselessly.
This particular argument is 2 weeks old and seems far older.
Why not let it go? Must it go around the circle endlessly?
<<Rhetorical questions>>
--
Cheers,
vc- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
What's the argument?
I haven't followed that closely, but I think they have argued for two
weeks whether Becker had a lot bigger serve than Tanner, or just a
little bigger... I don't really know who is right, because all I know
about Tanner's serve is very vague memories of one match. But what I
have read of the thread, my sympathies are to Jaros simply because of
the debating techniques. Jaros makes his points clearly and there is a
lot of common sense in them. Rupedski can't seem to make a single post
without all the drama queen stuff, so it is hard to find the actual
points in there.
I will attempt to boil it down as objectively as I can. Understand
that there are side issues relating to the accuracy of service speed
measurements, the importance of spin or "weight," and the effects of
racket technology, that are controversial in their own right. I will
not address them here.
IMO, the key difference between Jaros and RuPEDski in this thread is
this:
Jaros believes that the "bigness" of a player's serve is determined by
his average serving speed from match to match throughout his career
(or at least at peak). What counts in calculating bigness is what a
player does on the court, on average. Fluke or "one-off" big serves at
exceptionally high speeds prove nothing. Thus, if Becker's average
first serve speed was greater than Tanner's first serve speed, then by
definition Becker had a bigger serve.
RuPEDski believes that the bigness of a player's serve is determined
by his capacity for hitting big serves. Average serve speed is a
misleading metric because players from previous generations, for
tactical and "mindset" reasons, hit all-out on the first serve less
often than contemporary players. Tanner's average first serve speed
may be slightly less than Becker's, but Tanner's capacity for hitting
big serves is as great, or probably greater, because Tanner can easily
match Becker's top speeds when he wants to. Thus, it is incorrect to
say that Becker has a bigger serve than Tanner does.
WOW. I just read this section of the thread! YOU"VE COMPLETELY MISSED THE
POINT. I have at no time asserted that the "bigness" of a player's serve is
determined by highest speed serve. LOL!!! I asked STEVE TO SPECIFICALLY
DEFINE his paramater so as to attempt to stop all the weasling and answer
things directly and to the point. However, Steve has used his strategy of
obscure the point with excessive posting so that people can't follow.
Apparently Steve really is successful in misleading the.....handicapped. Oh
well.
Actually, what I wrote above is in fact an accurate, and fair, summary
of what you have said in this thread. Remember that between the two of
us, I am the better judge of what you have said, because (i) you may
tend to confuse what you said with what you *meant*, but I won't, and
(ii) I am an expert in boiling down pages of rambling into a concise
statement, but you are not. You should thank me for distilling your
scores of posts in this thread into an intelligible, readable
paragraph that others can follow. You're welcome.
Joe Ramirez
I believe you will be joining PEDski's "LOL!" "RETARDO" "MORON" club of infamy very shortly. Only Whisper and Whispobots have escaped PEDski's wrath recently (though when PEDski was new not so long ago this wasn't the case and PEDski railed at Whisper and Jaros and claimed they were both sockpuppets) no doubt due to Pedski's wannabe bot status and pending application.
Wish WHisper would send PEDs the club button and inflatable doll soon. I strongly recommend PEDski for the honor!
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