Just watched some of the final. Now we know what cities can do with their empty NHL arenas. I was amazed at how like hockey it was....
How much bigger is an outdoor field? Also, is the lacrosse phenomenon just a North American thing or has it spread to other countries?
It's huge here in East Grand Rapids. Last year, A British soccer guy opened a soccer/lacrosse store called "Studs Up" a few blocks from my house. He said business is booming http://www.studsup.com/ . They just had Mike Powell in last Saturday to sign autographs....I think Grand Rapids should dump their crappy arena football league team and get a NLL franchise!
In article <e2vhe.2792$Lu6.2238@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, "Jackie Tellier" <jstellier@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
How much bigger is an outdoor field? Also, is the lacrosse phenomenon just > a North American thing or has it spread to other countries?>
It's huge here in East Grand Rapids. Last year, A British soccer guy opened > a soccer/lacrosse store called "Studs Up" a few blocks from my house. He > said business is booming http://www.studsup.com/ . They just had Mike > Powell in last Saturday to sign autographs....I think Grand Rapids should > dump their crappy arena football league team and get a NLL franchise!
You play the outdoor game on a football-sized field. The goal is 6x6 and stationed about 20 yards from the endline. You play with 10 on a side.
It's a MUCH more interesting game, although I'm biased because I played it. I strongly encourage you to check out the NCAA semis and finals, which are played in late May, IIRC, and broadcast on ESPN.
To my knowledge, it's not played anywhere outside the U.S. and Canada.
Ron wrote:> In article <e2vhe.2792$Lu6.2238@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,> "Jackie Tellier" <jstellier@sbcglobal.net> wrote:>
How much bigger is an outdoor field? Also, is the lacrosse phenomenon just >>a North American thing or has it spread to other countries?>>
It's huge here in East Grand Rapids. Last year, A British soccer guy opened >>a soccer/lacrosse store called "Studs Up" a few blocks from my house. He >>said business is booming http://www.studsup.com/ . They just had Mike >>Powell in last Saturday to sign autographs....I think Grand Rapids should >>dump their crappy arena football league team and get a NLL franchise! >
You play the outdoor game on a football-sized field. The goal is 6x6 and > stationed about 20 yards from the endline. You play with 10 on a side.>
It's a MUCH more interesting game, although I'm biased because I played > it. I strongly encourage you to check out the NCAA semis and finals, > which are played in late May, IIRC, and broadcast on ESPN.>
To my knowledge, it's not played anywhere outside the U.S. and Canada.
It's played in England to a certain extent; the sport here is dominated by a little enclave in the north-west.
In message <ronaldinho_m-DD459C.15412314052005@newssvr14-ext.news.prodigy.com>, Ron <ronaldinho_m@hotmail.com> writes>To my knowledge, it's not played anywhere outside the U.S. and Canada.
Lacrosse is played very widely in British girl's private schools - England have a better record than Canada in recent world cups. It's regarded mainly as a posh women's sport here.
"Ron" <ronaldinho_m@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ronaldinho_m-DD459C.15412314052005@newssvr14-ext.news.prodigy.com...> In article <e2vhe.2792$Lu6.2238@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,> "Jackie Tellier" <jstellier@sbcglobal.net> wrote:>
How much bigger is an outdoor field? Also, is the lacrosse phenomenon
just> > a North American thing or has it spread to other countries?> >
It's huge here in East Grand Rapids. Last year, A British soccer guy
opened> > a soccer/lacrosse store called "Studs Up" a few blocks from my house.
said business is booming http://www.studsup.com/ . They just had Mike> > Powell in last Saturday to sign autographs....I think Grand Rapids
should> > dump their crappy arena football league team and get a NLL franchise!>
You play the outdoor game on a football-sized field. The goal is 6x6 and> stationed about 20 yards from the endline. You play with 10 on a side.
The local hs plays on a football Field-turf field temporarily overmarked with lacrosse lines at 110 yards by about 60 yards.
It's a MUCH more interesting game, although I'm biased because I played> it. I strongly encourage you to check out the NCAA semis and finals,> which are played in late May, IIRC, and broadcast on ESPN.
To my knowledge, it's not played anywhere outside the U.S. and Canada.
"The ILF is comprised of 14 full member Nations and 6 affiliate member Nations.
The 14 full member Nations include: Australia; Canada; Czech Republic; England; Germany; Ireland; Iroquois Nationals; Japan; Korea; New Zealand; Scotland; Sweden; United States; and, Wales. The affiliate member Nations include: Argentina; Denmark; Hong Kong; Finland; Italy; and, Tonga."
To my knowledge, it's not played anywhere outside the U.S. and Canada.
My grandfather was captain of the Australian lacrosse team back in the interwar days. It's still played a bit particularly in Victoria (where he was from). But, like that other American sport that was big here years ago (Baseball) it has largely disappeared as the other sports became professional and overall participation levels decreased.
Victoria Barrett 15 May 2005 08:14:41 [ permanent link ]
On Sat, 14 May 2005 22:34:50 GMT, "Jackie Tellier" <jstellier@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Just watched some of the final. Now we know what cities can do with their >empty NHL arenas. I was amazed at how like hockey it was....
In Maryland, it's like a national sport.
*mmm* Lacrosse players. Hot.
How much bigger is an outdoor field? Also, is the lacrosse phenomenon just >a North American thing or has it spread to other countries?
I think it's very big in Argentina (or am I thinking field hockey?). There was also a "Nations Cup" recently, with an indigenous North American tribe invited, since they were the progenitors. Was it the Iroquois?
I forget momentarily.
It's huge here in East Grand Rapids. Last year, A British soccer guy opened >a soccer/lacrosse store called "Studs Up" a few blocks from my house. He >said business is booming http://www.studsup.com/ . They just had Mike >Powell in last Saturday to sign autographs....I think Grand Rapids should >dump their crappy arena football league team and get a NLL franchise!
Cool! I will check that out. Lacrosse in SoFla is nitchevo-city, but in other areas like in the Carolinas, I think aristocratic Southern gentleman play it in Unis.
On Sun, 15 May 2005 00:14:41 -0400, Victoria Barrett <vbarrett@the-beach.net> wrote:
I think it's very big in Argentina (or am I thinking field hockey?).>There was also a "Nations Cup" recently, with an indigenous North>American tribe invited, since they were the progenitors. Was it the>Iroquois?
The Iroquois field their own lacrosse national team.
Fun fact: In the early days, lacrosse was an Olympic sport, and an Iroquois team representing Canada won a bronze medal. One of their players was named Man Afraid Soap.
Cool! I will check that out. Lacrosse in SoFla is nitchevo-city, but>in other areas like in the Carolinas, I think aristocratic Southern>gentleman play it in Unis.
I think it's played mostly by Marylanders and Long Islanders, but that wouldn't be much different than the general student population of some of those Carolina Unis
It's the end of the world as we know it, and Jackie Tellier feels...> Just watched some of the final. Now we know what cities can do with their > empty NHL arenas. I was amazed at how like hockey it was....>
How much bigger is an outdoor field? Also, is the lacrosse phenomenon just > a North American thing or has it spread to other countries?
In the execrably awful Enid Blyton books I loved as a kid, lacrosse often features (at least, in those books involving school). So presumably the English have some familiarity with it.
I played it once or twice in high school PE classes, but nobody seemed to know what they were doing (PE teachers included).
<snip />
-- "I took up croquet today and I'm on fire" - The Dresden Dolls, "Good Day" Web: http://donotuselifts.net/ Email: m [dot] gallagher [at] canberra [dot] edu [dot] au
Victoria Barrett 15 May 2005 19:19:07 [ permanent link ]
On Sun, 15 May 2005 02:58:03 -0500, MMcC <inis@earthlings.com> wrote:>Field Hockey, anglophiles that they once were.
Last time I went to Argentina (December 2000), they still were. BIG TIME.
Old joke:
"What is an Argentinian?" "An Italian who speaks Spanish, acts German, and thinks he's English."
Yes, probably a "Six Nations" team, Iroquois Confederacy (made of the>Iroquois, Mohawk, Coyohuga, Tuscarora tribes and a couple of others I>can't remember).>It spans both sides of the US/Canadian border, and they compete as a>seperate "nation" in international Lacrosse tournaments.
That's it! I confess, I dithered between Sioux and Iroquois, since I know both those tribes blanket both borders, but ultimately something in my subconscious chose Iroquois, since I recall their flag waving in a tournament once. This had to be it.
Great banner/flag, BTW. It was VERY cool to see it flying alongside the Canadian and American flags, etc.
I played in high school on Long Island, one of the two historical hotbeds (along with Baltimore)...
One of my best buddies in HS's father was one of the pioneer HS lacrosse coaches on Long Island in the late 50's and 60's...
Just starting to get a foothold out West-it looks like the CIF (high school sanctioning body) is about to make it an official high school sport in California. Real bad news for baseball, since the effect historically has been to cut into the numbers and quality available for HS baseball (both are spring sports)...baseball coaches have fought this tooth and nail.
"Victoria Barrett" <vbarrett@the-beach.net> wrote in message news:11jd81199c7mif1oj7t3nu50qeq4mn4oga@4ax.com...> On Sat, 14 May 2005 22:34:50 GMT, "Jackie Tellier"> <jstellier@sbcglobal.net> wrote:>
Just watched some of the final. Now we know what cities can do with their>>empty NHL arenas. I was amazed at how like hockey it was....>
In Maryland, it's like a national sport.>
*mmm* Lacrosse players. Hot.>
How much bigger is an outdoor field? Also, is the lacrosse phenomenon >>just>>a North American thing or has it spread to other countries?>
I think it's very big in Argentina (or am I thinking field hockey?).> There was also a "Nations Cup" recently, with an indigenous North> American tribe invited, since they were the progenitors. Was it the> Iroquois?>
I forget momentarily.>
It's huge here in East Grand Rapids. Last year, A British soccer guy >>opened>>a soccer/lacrosse store called "Studs Up" a few blocks from my house. He>>said business is booming http://www.studsup.com/ . They just had Mike>>Powell in last Saturday to sign autographs....I think Grand Rapids should>>dump their crappy arena football league team and get a NLL franchise!>
Cool! I will check that out. Lacrosse in SoFla is nitchevo-city, but> in other areas like in the Carolinas, I think aristocratic Southern> gentleman play it in Unis.
Victoria Barrett 17 May 2005 20:46:13 [ permanent link ]
On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:20:31 -0700, "Frankie Boy" <targetmedia@cox.net> wrote:>I played in high school on Long Island, one of the two historical hotbeds >(along with Baltimore)...
Nice! You must have the seemingly required long legs, long arms, and immense upper body. *rrrrr*
One of my best buddies in HS's father was one of the pioneer HS lacrosse >coaches on Long Island in the late 50's and 60's...
Hmm, surely lacrosse in Longuyland has been around longer than that though?
(Although nice work on befriending the coach's son ;)
Just starting to get a foothold out West-it looks like the CIF (high school >sanctioning body) is about to make it an official high school sport in >California.
Hmm, the granola bar towheads of California playing Lacrosse. What a visual.
Real bad news for baseball, since the effect historically has >been to cut into the numbers and quality available for HS baseball (both are >spring sports)...baseball coaches have fought this tooth and nail.
Can you imagine of cricket gained a foothold in the US? They'd be Jim Rome'd out.
I don't see that happening as, though Americans play cricket yes, it just doesn't have the requisite blue-collar blood-and-guts to appeal to Merkin men, IMHO.
In article <7i7k81tulqo8dtobdool4invjap4d7lhjj@4ax.com>, Victoria Barrett <vbarrett@the-beach.net> wrote:
Just starting to get a foothold out West-it looks like the CIF (high school > >sanctioning body) is about to make it an official high school sport in > >California. >
Hmm, the granola bar towheads of California playing Lacrosse. What a> visual.
We've been playing in California for about 20 years; I was a California State High School champ as a junior. It wasn't an "official" sport in most of the state, but rather a "club sport" - we didn't get much in the way of official support from the school.
But there were probably 40 teams in the state when we won the title, and it was growing every year.
Victoria Barrett 17 May 2005 22:42:53 [ permanent link ]
On Tue, 17 May 2005 18:09:58 GMT, Ron <ronaldinho_m@hotmail.com> wrote:>We've been playing in California for about 20 years; I was a California >State High School champ as a junior. It wasn't an "official" sport in >most of the state, but rather a "club sport" - we didn't get much in the >way of official support from the school. >
But there were probably 40 teams in the state when we won the title, and >it was growing every year.
As I said, what a visual.
...and is there NO sport Americans don't practise at all? I've never seen a nation like this.
Victoria Barrett 17 May 2005 22:43:55 [ permanent link ]
On Tue, 17 May 2005 14:42:53 -0400, Victoria Barrett <vbarrett@the-beach.net> wrote:>...and is there NO sport Americans don't practise at all? I've never>seen a nation like this.
I will now flagellate myself for using a double negative.
Quoting Huw Morris in rec.sport.soccer:>Victoria Barrett wrote:>> ...and is there NO sport Americans don't practise at all? I've never>> seen a nation like this.
The only cricketers are immigrants. And I doubt whether there's much rugby>league or snooker played either - three of the biggest sports in the UK.
Also, Victoria might be exaggerating the feats of Americans. While it is true that sports like rugby, amfooty, baseball, landhockey are very small, they do indeed exist in Sweden and have their leagues. My guess is that several countries are at least on par with USA when it comes to diversity in sports at some level.
-- All that we see, or seem, is but a dream, within a dream, installed by the Machine
It's the end of the world as we know it, and anders t feels...> Quoting Huw Morris in rec.sport.soccer:> >Victoria Barrett wrote:> >> ...and is there NO sport Americans don't practise at all? I've never> >> seen a nation like this.>
The only cricketers are immigrants. And I doubt whether there's much rugby> >league or snooker played either - three of the biggest sports in the UK.>
Also, Victoria might be exaggerating the feats of Americans. While it is> true that sports like rugby, amfooty, baseball, landhockey are very small,> they do indeed exist in Sweden and have their leagues. My guess is that> several countries are at least on par with USA when it comes to diversity> in sports at some level.
There's Australia, for one. It's a safe bet our baseball and gridiron leagues are much better than their cricket and footy players...
-- "I don't do anything, not one single thing. I used to bite my nails, but I don't even do that any more." (attributed to Dorothy Parker)
Jesper Lauridsen 18 May 2005 20:26:58 [ permanent link ]
On 2005-05-18, anders t <anthu_001@No€SPaM€_hotmail.com> wrote:> Quoting Huw Morris in rec.sport.soccer:>>Victoria Barrett wrote:>>> ...and is there NO sport Americans don't practise at all? I've never>>> seen a nation like this.>
The only cricketers are immigrants. And I doubt whether there's much rugby>>league or snooker played either - three of the biggest sports in the UK.>
Also, Victoria might be exaggerating the feats of Americans. While it is> true that sports like rugby, amfooty, baseball, landhockey are very small,> they do indeed exist in Sweden and have their leagues. My guess is that> several countries are at least on par with USA when it comes to diversity> in sports at some level.
Yes, it's quite normal for western countries to play most sports on some level. E.g. in Denmark DIF has 57 member organisations[1], many of which organise several sports, bringing the total number of sports above 100. In addition to these, there's an unknown number of sports played outside the DIF umbrella.
Often when discussing how big a sport is, the number of national federations is cited. However when even small countries have over 100 federations, that number means very little. The existence of a Danish hanggliding federation tells you very little about the popularity of that sport.
[1] There's even one for American sports. Main activities seem to be softball, baseball and gridiron.
Victoria Barrett 18 May 2005 21:31:05 [ permanent link ]
On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:03:04 +0100, Huw Morris <no@spam.please> wrote:>The only cricketers are immigrants.
Even I know there was a famous club in NY in the 1800s which played against a British side, and trounced them. Like everything in the US back then (not sure why it would be different now in your mind), many in that team were immigrants.
Now what that has to do with the VARIETY of sport played here in the US, which was my point, is perhaps for you to explain.
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:31:05 -0400, Victoria Barrett <vbarrett@the-beach.net> wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:03:04 +0100, Huw Morris <no@spam.please> wrote:>>The only cricketers are immigrants. >
Even I know there was a famous club in NY in the 1800s which played>against a British side, and trounced them.
Sure, before the emergence of baseball cricket was a popular sport among the wealthy in the northeast. But that was many years ago, and it was essentially dead by the 1870's. There is a good summary of cricket vs. baseball in the US in the Markovits book ("soccer and american exceptionalism", or something like that.
I'd say Huw is just about right, but OTOH I don't see why the fact that the sport is played mainly by immigrants would invalidate your point.
Victoria Barrett 18 May 2005 23:14:29 [ permanent link ]
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:05:58 -0500, Jim Goloboy <goloboy@uiuc.edu> wrote:>Sure, before the emergence of baseball cricket was a popular sport>among the wealthy in the northeast. But that was many years ago, and>it was essentially dead by the 1870's. There is a good summary of>cricket vs. baseball in the US in the Markovits book ("soccer and>american exceptionalism", or something like that.
There was a book I once took out, "How to Explain Cricket to Americans" (something like that), which I used when an American bf of mine became interested in the sport, thru' me.
(That's why it was so easy for me to explain the rules of cricket on RSS, so many years ago)
It had a small history section, detailing the cricket clubs of eastern seabord, and the general history of cricket in the US. Very interesting points, like I'm sure Markovits has (I thought I had read his book actually, but I'm not so sure now).
However, it is not I that is making the point of quality or even quantity, just the fact that it exists enough to be included as a "range of sport".
I'd say Huw is just about right, but OTOH I don't see why the fact>that the sport is played mainly by immigrants would invalidate your>point.
This is not what I think is Huw's viewpoint, first off because I haven't heard it yet.
But the general mention of immigrant involvement in American activities reminds me of a conversation I once had with my late grandfather (RIP) who had rather snobby attitudes towards Americans.
Basically, his main point was that a lot of things of worth were not done "natively" -- and that all their accomplishments have to do with foreigners bringing reflected glory to them. He mentioned Einstein, Werner von Braun, and Martina Navratilova (he died during her apogee).
Of course, this is nonsense and typical gentry English attitudes towards Americans, so I didn't pay it too much attention even then.
But it has stayed with me all my life, as you can see.
I was a short, stumpy defender who didn't mind hitting people, though...
Lacrosse on Long Island took off after the war-remember that NFL hall of famer Jim Brown was also a dominant lacrosse player at Manhasset HS in the 50's. The prep schools did it first, then public schools on Long Island, then finally the Catholic schools in the 70's ...
The high school I graduated from (I did not play varsity, just JV at a Catholic school before transferring involuntarily after sophomore year-afraid I wasn't good enough to play there ) was Long Island champs my junior year-and have not really been a power since.
"Victoria Barrett" <vbarrett@the-beach.net> wrote in message news:7i7k81tulqo8dtobdool4invjap4d7lhjj@4ax.com...> On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:20:31 -0700, "Frankie Boy"> <targetmedia@cox.net> wrote:>>I played in high school on Long Island, one of the two historical hotbeds>>(along with Baltimore)...>
Nice! You must have the seemingly required long legs, long arms, and> immense upper body. *rrrrr*>
One of my best buddies in HS's father was one of the pioneer HS lacrosse>>coaches on Long Island in the late 50's and 60's...>
Hmm, surely lacrosse in Longuyland has been around longer than that> though?>
(Although nice work on befriending the coach's son ;)>
Just starting to get a foothold out West-it looks like the CIF (high >>school>>sanctioning body) is about to make it an official high school sport in>>California.>
Hmm, the granola bar towheads of California playing Lacrosse. What a> visual.>
Real bad news for baseball, since the effect historically has>>been to cut into the numbers and quality available for HS baseball (both >>are>>spring sports)...baseball coaches have fought this tooth and nail.>
Can you imagine of cricket gained a foothold in the US? They'd be Jim> Rome'd out.>
I don't see that happening as, though Americans play cricket yes, it> just doesn't have the requisite blue-collar blood-and-guts to appeal> to Merkin men, IMHO.
Victoria Barrett 19 May 2005 02:58:44 [ permanent link ]
On Wed, 18 May 2005 16:32:20 -0500, Jim Goloboy <goloboy@uiuc.edu> wrote:
I was referring to Huw's viewpoint of "the only cricketers are>immigrants", which is probably close to true.
Sure! At UM's main campus, when I signed up for the Cricket Club, I was given the club president's number to call. He was Indian, and the rest were Indian, Pakistani or Caribbean. Only 2 "Americans" were in the rolls, although some of those Indian, Pakistani and Caribbean people were Americans by naturalisation...like me.
BTW, my application was declined. I wasn't given a reason other than we don't need players at the moment, but I daresay I was the lone woman applicant there, and it's awkward for them.
If he has a larger point, just refer him to Jim Riley's canonical post>on the British and sports.
In message <074n81te8m1sfbrtr1vlj41gpsk0ocvfmb@4ax.com>, Victoria Barrett <vbarrett@the-beach.net> writes>Basically, his main point was that a lot of things of worth were not >done "natively" -- and that all their accomplishments have to do with >foreigners bringing reflected glory to them. He mentioned Einstein, >Werner von Braun, and Martina Navratilova (he died during her apogee).
Who thinks of these people as American?
Of course, this is nonsense and typical gentry English attitudes >towards Americans, so I didn't pay it too much attention even then.
In article <h+86jKH488iCFwkz@clara.net>, simon <davidsum68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Basically, his main point was that a lot of things of worth were not > >done "natively" -- and that all their accomplishments have to do with > >foreigners bringing reflected glory to them. He mentioned Einstein, > >Werner von Braun, and Martina Navratilova (he died during her apogee).>
Who thinks of these people as American?
The thing is about this country is that we're a country of people who decided to come here. Einstein became a U.S. citizen; unlike a lot of other countries, that's generally enough. You're one of us.
Ditto for Martina. She accomplished most of major victories after becoming a U.S. citizen. I guess you can ask her if she considers herself an American or not, but, since she's been a citizen of of the US for just about as long as she was a citizen of Czeckloslovakia (she'll catch up in the next year or so) I don't have any problem calling her American.
Quoting Ron in rec.sport.soccer:>I don't have any problem calling her American.
What about those other immigrants from for instance Mexico or Cuba who also decided they wanted to be US Americans? Those who didn't construct some photon theory or won some grand slams?
-- All that we see, or seem, is but a dream, within a dream, installed by the Machine
Aussies have made it to the American major leagues in baseball and basketball....you are right...
"mark" <m.gallagher@student.canberra.edu.au> wrote in message news:MPG.1cf5fa3375b59b04989cc9@news.individual.net...> It's the end of the world as we know it, and anders t feels...>> Quoting Huw Morris in rec.sport.soccer:>> >Victoria Barrett wrote:>> >> ...and is there NO sport Americans don't practise at all? I've never>> >> seen a nation like this.>>
The only cricketers are immigrants. And I doubt whether there's much >> >rugby>> >league or snooker played either - three of the biggest sports in the UK.>>
Also, Victoria might be exaggerating the feats of Americans. While it is>> true that sports like rugby, amfooty, baseball, landhockey are very >> small,>> they do indeed exist in Sweden and have their leagues. My guess is that>> several countries are at least on par with USA when it comes to diversity>> in sports at some level.>
There's Australia, for one. It's a safe bet our baseball and gridiron> leagues are much better than their cricket and footy players...>
-- > "I don't do anything, not one single thing. I used to> bite my nails, but I don't even do that any more."> (attributed to Dorothy Parker)
Victoria Barrett wrote:> This is not what I think is Huw's viewpoint, first off because I> haven't heard it yet.
You made the claim that the USA has the greatest variety of sports played. Why don't you list the sports that are played in the USA which are not played in Australia or the UK, for instance? I'm willing to bet that I can match the number with sports played in the UK or Australia that are not played in the USA.
But the general mention of immigrant involvement in American> activities reminds me of a conversation I once had with my late> grandfather (RIP) who had rather snobby attitudes towards Americans.>
Basically, his main point was that a lot of things of worth were not> done "natively" -- and that all their accomplishments have to do with> foreigners bringing reflected glory to them. He mentioned Einstein,> Werner von Braun, and Martina Navratilova (he died during her apogee).
You're careful not to say it explicitly, but you are indirectly accusing me of having a similar attitude to your grandfather (otherwise why bring him up at all?)
Victoria Barrett 19 May 2005 13:09:09 [ permanent link ]
On Thu, 19 May 2005 08:49:25 +0100, Huw Morris <no@spam.please> wrote: <melting two posts in one>>You made the claim that the USA has the greatest variety of sports played.
My exact wording was, "...and is there NO sport Americans don't practise at all? I've never seen a nation like this."
Now, forgiving the double negative for which I already apologised, I was simply marvelling at the variety of sport played in America. Further, I mentioned that I had never seen a nation quite like this, in sporting-terms.
This statement is hardly a red-flag as to a bull, except those who would take umbrage at some perceived slur on other nations.
If you had stopped at your first sentence, however, I would've said, "okay, yes, I understand your point, cricket isn't very popular in the US", but you added an awkward segue at the end about immigrants.
I was at pains in my examples to mention that immigrants count as Americans too, and that we didn't know your viewpoint on the matter, so let's hold off until you explain a bit better, but then you come back to another part of the thread, and added something that the mentioned SoFla Cricket Assoc. might be composed of all Caribbeans for all I know.
Since when does one have to show one's passport to say you play a given sport in a country? And if one is an immigrant, somehow that doesn't count towards a sport being counted? It only counts when born-and-raised people play it?
In the early part of Australia's history, soccer was called "wog ball" and played primarily by immigrants, so by this reckoning, we shouldn't count soccer in Australia back then? This makes no sense. The sport is played, full stop.
What's your point about immigrants in this context anyway? Now I'm really curious.
Why don't you list the sports that are played in the USA which are not>played in Australia or the UK, for instance? I'm willing to bet that I can>match the number with sports played in the UK or Australia that are not>played in the USA.
Sometimes one has to laugh, really. It's like I was in a room, and saw a handsome American man, and I said so in front of the other (international) men present.
"Hey, you American guy you, you're handsome. I've never seen a guy like you!".
"What! We in the UK have handsome men too! Why don't you point out that fact? Or that Aussies can be just as handsome as Americans?", comes a bitter retort from some other man present.
Yeah, they sure can, but that's not the point. The point is I'm trying to get laid by the handsome American guy. Stop cramping my style.
You're careful not to say it explicitly, but you are indirectly accusing me>of having a similar attitude to your grandfather (otherwise why bring him>up at all?)
Oh my dear Huw. You must not have observed me very closely, because when I want to say something about someone, like calling them a bigot about the US, I have no compunction WHATSOEVER to do so. I don't need to resort to half-allusions. I'll tell it to your face. Ask another prominent RSS'er if that's not so.
Of course, it's interesting that you think I am indirectly accusing you of having an US-bias, since perhaps you fail to remember I defended you on RSS from such a charge as late as September 2004.
Huw, from reading your posts over the years, I've always believed you>disliked anything American.
I know Huw, in a manner of speaking, better than most on RSS and as everyone is aware, I am aggressive about any anti-Americanism I encounter, and yet I never felt what you did about him, as stated above.
--
I really hope you remember this exchange, because as you can see, I haven't forgotten it. Perhaps you have though, since you never replied to it.
Victoria Barrett 19 May 2005 13:21:48 [ permanent link ]
On Thu, 19 May 2005 03:58:10 GMT, Ron <ronaldinho_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
The thing is about this country is that we're a country of people who >decided to come here. Einstein became a U.S. citizen; unlike a lot of >other countries, that's generally enough. You're one of us.
Absolutely. Same with other Americans, North, South and Central.
Ditto for Martina. She accomplished most of major victories after >becoming a U.S. citizen. I guess you can ask her if she considers >herself an American or not, but, since she's been a citizen of of the US >for just about as long as she was a citizen of Czeckloslovakia (she'll >catch up in the next year or so) I don't have any problem calling her >American.
Neither does she, and she said so in her autobio (what? she was a heroine of mine back in the day).
One photo in her book which she mentioned featured a gaudy gold necklace she bought herself with her first real winnings in the US.
On it hung an equally thick gold pendant, composed of an "X" and a ""checkmark" = Ex-Czech.
I daresay she'll never stop considering herself a Czech, but she considers herself an American now too -- else she wouldn't have played for the US at the Olympics.
"Q1: You have played for your country on six Fed Cup teams. How nationalistic or patriotic do you consider yourself?
MARTINA NAVRATILOVA: Well, nationalistic and patriotic enough to take two weeks out of my schedule and go to Moscow, which is not one of my favorite places in the world to go to! (laughs) What with all the Lenin statutes and the sickle and hammer, neon signs that are still on the buildings, that does not bring good memories. But, obviously, how I feel about this country I think has been well documented. I love this country. I love being an American. I love living here, which is why I speak up about some of the things that are going on that I don't like, which this past couple years, that's been called unpatriotic. I feel it's more patriotic to speak out when you feel something is not right rather than be quiet. "
Aussies have made it to the American major leagues in baseball and > basketball....you are right...
And the NFL of course. One of those players was famous (at another sport) here before he left, another was unknown.
Ice Hockey, well my triathlon club used to boast Australia's Women's Captain, plus another guy who used to be in the Canadiens organisation until his knee got split apart "like a sledgehammer hitting an avocadoooo" ($2 for reference).
Victoria Barrett wrote:> I just got a visual of myself as Christopher Columbus, with one foot> on a nerfball, claiming the sportt in the name of globalisation.
Yeah whatever. You made a throwaway remark. I made a throwaway remark contradicting you, and I have no desire to get into a full-blown argument over something so inconsequential. Go and pick on Lucky Devin again.
In article <kg9o81tk58c309fn158rqag40vgrhoh0sc@4ax.com>, anders t <anthu_001@No?SPaM?_hotmail.com> wrote:
What about those other immigrants from for instance Mexico or Cuba who also> decided they wanted to be US Americans? Those who didn't construct some> photon theory or won some grand slams?
Mexico is the single biggest source of legal immigration into this country.
20% of our population is foreign-born. Compared to around 12% for Sweden (which incidentally is considered high by European standards).
Victoria Barrett 19 May 2005 20:37:28 [ permanent link ]
On Thu, 19 May 2005 16:26:32 +0100, Huw Morris <no@spam.please> wrote:>Yeah whatever. You made a throwaway remark. I made a throwaway remark>contradicting you, and I have no desire to get into a full-blown argument>over something so inconsequential. Go and pick on Lucky Devin again.
What! When I have so much more fun shredding you to bits? Nevah.
Victoria Barrett 19 May 2005 20:41:55 [ permanent link ]
On Thu, 19 May 2005 15:52:48 GMT, Ron <ronaldinho_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
20% of our population is foreign-born. <snip>
In Florida, it's almost at 33%. In SoFla, including out-of-staters, it must be astronomical. There are an estimated 150,000 British expats like me alone.
Once, when I was in a real estate course back in the day I was dithering about my "profession", the instructor asked the class to raise their hands if they were from another country. I would say 50% of that class raised their hands. When he said, how many of you are not from Florida at all? About 80% raised their hands. What took my breath away was when he asked, how many of you have at least one parent born in Florida?
Quoting Ron in rec.sport.soccer:>In article <kg9o81tk58c309fn158rqag40vgrhoh0sc@4ax.com>,> anders t <anthu_001@No?SPaM?_hotmail.com> wrote:>
What about those other immigrants from for instance Mexico or Cuba who also>> decided they wanted to be US Americans? Those who didn't construct some>> photon theory or won some grand slams?>
Mexico is the single biggest source of legal immigration into this >country.>
20% of our population is foreign-born. Compared to around 12% for >Sweden (which incidentally is considered high by European standards).
Yes, but that wasn't the question.
-- All that we see, or seem, is but a dream, within a dream, installed by the Machine
In article <qgop815k5hqkb4pg29r6ghso21rv730d2p@4ax.com>, anders t <anthu_001@No?SPaM?_hotmail.com> wrote:
Although it might not have been clear from side from the start: the> question was whether US Americans (let's say that at least was born in the> USA) consider immigrants-en-masse from Mexico or Cuba (for instance) as US> American from day one as they consider a Nobel Prize winner or sport's> superstar?
While certainly there are groups of people who would disagree, I think that most Americans consider anybody who wants to assimilate American, if not from day one, then, at least from the point when they achieve high proficiency in English.
We're certainly a society with our share of racism, but except for the wing-nuts, people don't think of English-speaking Americans as non-American to the same extent that, say, french-speaking Algerian immigrants (and their French-born children) are often thought of as more Algerian than French.
What I should have followed up my post with was, when talking about my friends, is that they've told me that others don't treat them like they were foreigners. They aren't made to feel un-American.
I doubt you could say the same of immigrants with more limited English skills (but I don't know, because I don't know anybody like that well enough to have talked to them about it; partly because they tend to stick more to the highly-ethnic communities I mentioned earlier) - but I think English proficiency is a much more relevant indicator than number of Grand Slams won.
Victoria Barrett 20 May 2005 02:24:36 [ permanent link ]
On Thu, 19 May 2005 19:45:13 GMT, Ron <ronaldinho_m@hotmail.com> wrote: <snip>> I doubt you could say the same of immigrants with more limited English >skills (but I don't know, because I don't know anybody like that well >enough to have talked to them about it; partly because they tend to >stick more to the highly-ethnic communities I mentioned earlier) - but I >think English proficiency is a much more relevant indicator than number >of Grand Slams won.
?
Not about the explanation, but about the thrust of the question.
It reminds me (not another grandfather memory, bear with me) of a John Candy bit of dialogue in the film, JFK:
"How do you know who your daddy is? 'Cause your momma done told you so."
"Huw Morris" <no@spam.please> wrote in message news:d6esqd$hq2$3@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk...> Victoria Barrett wrote:>> ...and is there NO sport Americans don't practise at all? I've never>> seen a nation like this.>
The only cricketers are immigrants. And I doubt whether there's much rugby> league or snooker played either - three of the biggest sports in the UK.>
Huw
Rugby: Grand Rapids has had an ameteur club for years, the Gazelles. Also, I saw article in the local sports section on a woman's team looking for players.....dang, if I were 20 years younger!
Jackie Tellier wrote:> "Huw Morris" <no@spam.please> wrote in message > news:d6esqd$hq2$3@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk...>
Victoria Barrett wrote:>>
...and is there NO sport Americans don't practise at all? I've never>>>seen a nation like this.>>
The only cricketers are immigrants. And I doubt whether there's much rugby>>league or snooker played either - three of the biggest sports in the UK.>>
Rugby: Grand Rapids has had an ameteur club for years, the Gazelles. Also, > I saw article in the local sports section on a woman's team looking for > players.....dang, if I were 20 years younger! >
Huw was talking about a different sport here (Rugby =/ Rugby League). The US has a team - there is a League around New York apparently (the team logos look horribly like NRL ones - its pretty sad and derivative frankly).
James
While cricketers are mainly immigrants (look at the US team in the ICon Cup), there are odd pockets of indigenous action - there was an article on NPR about a team from Compton (yeah, they were Straight outta Compton) who were being taught cricket to try and keep them "off the streets". They toured the UK in 1999 and 2001 (and later IIRC) and met Prince Edward (which probably turned them off then and there).
Victoria Barrett 30 May 2005 20:16:44 [ permanent link ]
[SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER!]
Remember this thread which Jackie T. posted over a week ago?
Before Huw and I turned into Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor in "Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf" that is?
Well!
If you turn on ESPN(1), you'll find that this US Memorial Day has a treat in store for us, since the NCAA Div I Final is on RIGHT NOW (noon EDT, Monday) between:
2 Duke
v.
1 Johns Hopkins
Yay!
(I have no real vested interests in either team, albeit my dad [tm] was a Fellow at JH back in the 60's, and of course, on RSS there's Mike Babyak from Duke. There are a lot more Marylanders on RSS, though, so for them, I'll cheer on JH just that little more)
I think it's very big in Argentina (or am I thinking field hockey?).>>There was also a "Nations Cup" recently, with an indigenous North>>American tribe invited, since they were the progenitors. Was it the>>Iroquois?>
The Iroquois field their own lacrosse national team.
IIRC, the Iroquois used to come to Bucknell and play "friendlies" against the varsity. I seem to remember that the varsity side never got close. Some of the Iroquois didn't even wear helmets.>
I think it's played mostly by Marylanders and Long Islanders, but that> wouldn't be much different than the general student population of some> of those Carolina Unis
Certainly true here at Duke, at least historically.
