If the fines are enforced at the levels in the protocol (40 euro/

tonne, I think) that will help boost the carbon credit market

(currently about 22 euro/tonne) since the governments will be able to

buy their way out with carbon credits.

Have you heard that Japan, Italy and Spain face $33 billion in fines

for NOT meeting their kyoto goals to reduce CO2? Do you suppose that

their populations will support the tax increase to pay those fines?

What is the UN going to do with that money? Give it to poor countries?

Income redistribution? Sounds more like socialism to me.

How many countries are going to live up to their kyoto requirements

anyway?

How much would the U.S. fine be for not living up to the standards had

we been foolish enough to join? And would you supporters of the treaty

be willing to pay the bill? No. I thought not.

In most cases, probably so, but if the governments can find industries

that are not meeting their emission reduction targets, then we can say

"customers".

And how much is the cost of doing nothing?

Hint - Katrina, Ice storms and California burning are just the beginning. It

only goes up from here.

Those things happen anyway. Where's the proof that it's caused by

global warming?

"Harry Weiner" <Terd@Fartingmor.co­m> wrote in message

Thats the trouble. You're waiting for a smoking gun. When you see it it will

be years too late.

Isn't it enough that all the models scientists created 20-30 years ago are

happening now? Only difference - its happening faster than anybody thought

it would.

That just tells me that the models are wrong, not that they're right.

Just as the imminent ice-age theory about 30 years ago was wrong...

Hmmmmmmmm 30-35 years ago we were facing the next ice age?

So why don't you go ahead and follow the example of all the GW

followers and massively reduce your consumption and comfort levels?

Just don't follow the example of the GW polititians and leaders and

use more than EVERYONE.

There have always been hurricanes. Fewer than average or predicted

since Katrina FWIW. Same for ice storms and California burning. The

difference in Cal. is that people are moving further and further out

into the areas where the fire can overrun them. And there is probably

an element that has figured out when and where to start the fires for

maximum effect.

"pigo" <bobt1954@gmail.com­> wrote in message news:f2df1732-95bc-­4a50-b07b-

Who said that?

Thats the trouble. You're waiting for a smoking gun. When you see it it will

be years too late.

Isn't it enough that all the models scientists created 20-30 years ago are

happening now? Only difference - its happening faster than anybody thought

it would.

So why don't you go ahead and follow the example of all the GW

followers and massively reduce your consumption and comfort levels?

Just don't follow the example of the GW polititians and leaders and

use more than EVERYONE.

As for Canada and Siberia becoming gardens, it

certainly could happen. However the Sahel will become

totally unlivable as will other tropical and

sub-tropical parts of the world. Then where do those

folks move to? Why, Canada and Siberia, of course.

VtSkier wrote:

Is it cynical to think that if they were smart enough to do that they

wouldn't be having the problems they have now? Aren't such places,

except for the scenery, of course, pretty much unliveable already? And

exactly how will they get to Canada? Well, I guess they could walk to

Siberia and then cross over via the Polar Beach...

Why haven't the Bangladeshis realized that they're ALWAYS going to get

flooded out and that maybe moving to higher ground might be a good idea?

The Egyptians managed to deal with periodic flooding, why can't others?

"Harry Weiner" <Terd@Fartingmor.co­m> wrote in message

Thats the trouble. You're waiting for a smoking gun. When you see it it will

be years too late.

http://en.wikipedia­.org/wiki/Global_coo­ling

Yes, there are dissenters, but there are always are. For example, one

very eminent geologist to the end of his days refused to believe in

continental drift. Now, everyone knows it's true. Even Einstein

refused to believe in quantum theory ("God does not play dice with the

universe").

There is a UN conference on the environment, Kyoto and so forth, and

they're doing it in Bali. They're all going to fly there on their

corporate jets. There is only parking space at the airport in Bali for

15 of them. So most of the private jets from around the world -- from

all these people that care so much about the environment -- are going

to have to be ferried back and forth empty to other aiports, burning

fossil fuels.

I'm not surprised, but I like to get the information out there.

"pigo" <bobt1954@gmail.com­> wrote in message news:ccb8cf16-19ed-­40e5-947c-

How about some information that actually matters?

What does any of the above have to do with the issue? Where and how do you

expect them to get together, by rickshaw?

Of course they are going to use the methods of transportation available to

them. None of your arguments make an ounce of difference in the overall

scheme of things. We need to find ways to reduce industry's output, use our

cars less, heat and light our buildings more efficiently, produce food

locally, etc. There are ways to accomplish all of these things, we just need

to convice a few people to stop clinging to the status quo and invest a

little money in our future. To all the neanderthals insisting its going to

cost money, of course it is, but do you economics majors believe money just

disappears? Do you really want to be the last one making changes or would

you prefer to be the one who develops and sells the technologies to everyone

else? Now is the time to have some vision and make that choice.

Actually 10 years ago would ahve been the time, but better late than never.

Had there been people around at the end of the last ice age they too

would have seen evidence of global warming everytime that they walked

out their front doors. It worked out pretty good that time.

There is only parking space at the airport in Bali for

15 of them.

"pigo" <bobt1954@gmail.com­> wrote in message news:ccb8cf16-19ed-­40e5-947c-

How about some information that actually matters?

What does any of the above have to do with the issue? Where and how do you

expect them to get together, by rickshaw?

Of course they are going to use the methods of transportation available to

them. None of your arguments make an ounce of difference in the overall

scheme of things. We need to find ways to reduce industry's output, use our

cars less, heat and light our buildings more efficiently, produce food

locally, etc. There are ways to accomplish all of these things, we just need

to convice a few people to stop clinging to the status quo and invest a

little money in our future. To all the neanderthals insisting its going to

cost money, of course it is, but do you economics majors believe money just

disappears? Do you really want to be the last one making changes or would

you prefer to be the one who develops and sells the technologies to everyone

else? Now is the time to have some vision and make that choice.

Actually 10 years ago would ahve been the time, but better late than never.

pigo wrote:

Where did you hear that? Denpassar looked like a pretty good size

airport the times I've been there, but I never asked about parking 16

Gulfstreams ...

Dec. 6

I'm hearing that the new PM has backed off his endorsment on kyoto.

Significan increases in the cost of electricity and danger to

Austrailia's economy?

HeHe. Alot like the democrats here. Now they DO have the power in

congress. They could cut off the war funds like they beat their drums

about while they were out of power. Word is now that they are going to

fund Afgahnistan to a level that will allow diversion to Iraq so that

they can say that they didn't fund Iraq. What pussies.

http://www.guardian­.co.uk/worldlatest/s­tory/0,,-7132656,00.­html

http://tinyurl.com/­yt8qto

On Dec 6, 1:39 pm, Richard Henry <pomer...@hotmail.c­om> wrote:

http://www.news.com­.au/heraldsun/story/­0,21985,22883548-662­,00.html

On 8 Dec, 14:38, "ant" <rowchesterchambers­2...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Alt 113 = "q".

Press and hold Alt, press and release sequentially

1 then 1 then 3 on number pad

then release Alt.

Not so bad on a full keyboard but tougher kon a laptop

since you need to use the fn key to get the number pad.

Alt 65=A, 66=B, 97=a .....

http://www.asciitab­le.com/ for the codes for other characters.

What would that accomplish? Once again, as stated many times here, Al Gore

is a messenger. One of many. Al Gore himself is not the issue.

According to AlGore: Oh my God!!! The Sky is Falling! The Sky Is

Falling!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hug a tree and get over it!!!

"Wes Pearson"

Jeez Wes, thats twice in one week your mom left you home with her computer

logged on. Careless.

in re Y2K: I worked for about a year and a half analyzing and

modifying Army computers so that they would not have any Y2K

problems. I imagine that effort extended beyond my view.