Re: Classic Roller Skiing and Difference between Jenex V2 Aero 125
and V2 105SRX
Marsh Jones 18 April 2007 05:49:36
I do a fair amount of classic rollerskiing (and mostly classic ski), and infinitely prefer the Jenex 800 series or Marwe Classics. Two important points. Classic rollerskiing *will* induce bad habits - lazy kick, soft poling. Very few people are willing to commit and explode on rollerskis like you should on snow. Having a bad pole plant on pavement leaves some serious scrapes. Also, the stability of 3 wheels does nothing for fixing your form. If you can't stand up on the fat wheel skis, FIX YOUR ANKLES AND CORE. Don't make a bad situation worse by bandaiding it with 3 wheels, outriggers, etc. I mostly doublepole on classic RS workouts. I kick only when I can't DP or for intervals. But 2 hours is about the max. Anything longer just seems to induce really ugly habits.
My .02
Marsh
mountainwalker wrote:
I'm interested in finding out more about stable 3 wheel classic roller
skis. Do people enjoy classic roller skiing? Which models of 3 wheel
classic skis do people like?
Also, has anyone tried the 105SRX Retro Classic - it uses solid rubber
tires and should be able to use the new Jenex wheels that are being
tested now (I spoke with Robin at Jenex and Len is testing 3-4 speeds
of 105 rubber tires Jenex will be offering) and/or the Aero 125 Retro
Classic?
On first glance I think I'd like the 105SRX Retro Classic because of
the solid rubber wheels and lighter weight (I believe it's lighter
than the Aero 125 Retro Classic). I'm biased toward no air tires
There's a long history that supports classic rollerskiing as better for endurance conditioning that skating. More controlled and linear ups and downs. Don't know if the article about the Soviet team study from the late 80s is still up, but the take home line was that the team half that trained 2/3 classic won all the medals (included Smirnov). Last fall an article on fasterskier from the German women's team said they were rolling classical for long workouts. I've never had the degree of problem Marsh reports and am able to explode and get off the skis more quickly. Even so, given the available terrain close by, DP and K-DP tend to dominate my workouts. Except for a little variety here and there, I pretty much save striding for hills that require it.
rm
mountainwalker <mountainwalker@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Marsh, that was helpful. I have no intention of picking up
classic skis right away - I'm just getting going on skate roller
skis. How good a workout do you get doing classic roller skiing
compared with skate roller skiing? I would imagine it would be
rigorous classic roller, but I guess that depends on how hard you work.
Very important codicil. LISTEN to this man! I did an extensive amount of classic roller skiing last year, mixed in with my attempts to teach myself skate skiing on roller skis.I was actually way more successful with the skate than classic. It REALLY messed me up with classic come snowfall. My kick, come ski season, was off to the point it took me two full weeks to recover. I wouldn't have even guessed what had happened had no I mentioned it to the instructor who was teaching me skate.Poling was really messed up even though I had spent a considerable amount o time working on DP. That and my kick had me glued too the snow. Roller skiing is a wonderful workout for the non-snow months and it made the difference between me being able to skate and not being able to skate... BUT...beware with classic!
Marsh Jones wrote:
I do a fair amount of classic rollerskiing (and mostly classic ski), and
infinitely prefer the Jenex 800 series or Marwe Classics. Two important
I will add another note here. My workout with my classic skates, the SKi SKett Nordic combis, has changed this year. Extensive use of DP and KDP. THAT was a suggestion by a well-known coach in this area. Another trick was to loosen, just slightly, my ratcheted wheels thus giving me a more realistic kick. I'm a bit paranoid about the kick because of (earlier post).No data to support the classic vs skate workout: my own experience has been about equal, which probably has more to do with my technique, level of fitness and terrain than any objective intelligence.I do seem more tired with the classic workout. I can adjust the roller skis somewhat to increase resistance and can't achieve the same with the skate.
romat@invalid.net wrote:
There's a long history that supports classic rollerskiing as better
for endurance conditioning that skating. More controlled and linear
ups and downs. Don't know if the article about the Soviet team study
from the late 80s is still up, but the take home line was that the
team half that trained 2/3 classic won all the medals (included
Smirnov). Last fall an article on fasterskier from the German women's
team said they were rolling classical for long workouts. I've never had
the degree of problem Marsh reports and am able to explode and get off
the skis more quickly. Even so, given the available terrain close by, DP
and K-DP tend to dominate my workouts. Except for a little variety here
and there, I pretty much save striding for hills that require it.
rm
mountainwalker <mountainwalker@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Marsh, that was helpful. I have no intention of picking up
classic skis right away - I'm just getting going on skate roller
skis. How good a workout do you get doing classic roller skiing
compared with skate roller skiing? I would imagine it would be
rigorous classic roller, but I guess that depends on how hard you work.
I'm thinking some things are getting tossed together about classical rollerskiing that shouldn't. Assuming good technique, if you stride *a lot* in terrain that is too easy for striding, then you're more likely to develop the habit of staying on the kick too long. It's simply too hard to maintain for long the quick-kicking tempo that easier terrain creates. You have to slow down, which means staying on the rollerski longer, which for *some* people leads to bad habits. However, if you stride on uphills that are steep enough to allow for a quicker kick at whatever output level just to keep going, then bad habits are less likely to develop. The thing is that we don't normally spend a lot of time on such terrain and do spend a lot of time on easier terrain. That's why the emphasis on DP and Kick-DP, and the warning about striding.
As a caveat to all these bad habit warnings, I suggest comparing the numerous warnings on rsn of the bad things that come from using a Nordic Track (do a group search), with Bill Koch's comment about wishing he'd discovered the machine earlier.
rm
Randy <erands@newnorth.net> wrote:
Very important codicil. LISTEN to this man! I did an extensive amount
of classic roller skiing last year, mixed in with my attempts to teach
myself skate skiing on roller skis.I was actually way more successful
with the skate than classic. It REALLY messed me up with classic come
snowfall. My kick, come ski season, was off to the point it took me
two full weeks to recover. I wouldn't have even guessed what had
happened had no I mentioned it to the instructor who was teaching me
skate.Poling was really messed up even though I had spent a
considerable amount o time working on DP. That and my kick had me
glued too the snow. Roller skiing is a wonderful workout for the
non-snow months and it made the difference between me being able to
skate and not being able to skate... BUT...beware with classic!
Marsh Jones wrote:
I do a fair amount of classic rollerskiing (and mostly classic ski),
and infinitely prefer the Jenex 800 series or Marwe Classics. Two
important points. Classic rollerskiing *will* induce bad habits -
lazy kick, soft poling. Very few people are willing to commit and
explode on rollerskis like you should on snow. Having a bad pole
plant on pavement leaves some serious scrapes. Also, the stability
of 3 wheels does nothing for fixing your form. If you can't stand
up on the fat wheel skis, FIX YOUR ANKLES AND CORE. Don't make a
bad situation worse by bandaiding it with 3 wheels, outriggers, etc.
I mostly doublepole on classic RS workouts. I kick only when I
can't DP or for intervals. But 2 hours is about the max. Anything
longer just seems to induce really ugly habits.
My .02
Marsh
mountainwalker wrote:
I'm interested in finding out more about stable 3 wheel classic
roller skis. Do people enjoy classic roller skiing? Which models
of 3 wheel classic skis do people like?
Also, has anyone tried the 105SRX Retro Classic - it uses solid
rubber tires and should be able to use the new Jenex wheels that
are being tested now (I spoke with Robin at Jenex and Len is
testing 3-4 speeds of 105 rubber tires Jenex will be offering)
and/or the Aero 125 Retro Classic?
On first glance I think I'd like the 105SRX Retro Classic because of
the solid rubber wheels and lighter weight (I believe it's lighter
than the Aero 125 Retro Classic). I'm biased toward no air tires
I imagine four years ago the dollar was in a lot better shape relative to the Norwegian NOK. It is an interesting idea, now that the Marwe is getting up there in price. The 610 has the ski shaft frame that flexes. Do these feel the same or softer with the suspension effect? Did you ever try their wheels? Which spring do you have, or the set?
rm
"FrontRunner" <sworsnop@kalamazoo.net> wrote:
I have been on DynaSkates since they first came out 4 years ago. I
highly recommend them. They are a bit pricey ($500 or $600), but they
have a great on snow feel and the suspension smoothes out the ride on
less than smooth pavement. I have them set up with Marwe 100mm
wheels (2,000 to 3,000 mile wheel life) and have averaged over 2,000
miles a year over those four years and they have held up well.
They came with three sets stiff, medium, and soft. I have the medium springs and they feel fine. I have been on Marwes and they have some flex , but not quite as much as the DynaSkates. I use the Marwe wheels, primarily for the wheel life and a medium speed. As to the price, I have used these for four years, I am on these twice as much as skis, (Here in the Midwest we are rollerskiers who ski in the off season), and compared to my investment in skis, these are cheap.
The FrontRunner <romat@invalid.net> wrote in message news:20070420145039.96b01568.romat@invalid.net...
I imagine four years ago the dollar was in a lot better shape relative
to the Norwegian NOK. It is an interesting idea, now that the Marwe is
getting up there in price. The 610 has the ski shaft frame that
flexes. Do these feel the same or softer with the suspension effect?
Did you ever try their wheels? Which spring do you have, or the set?
rm
"FrontRunner" <sworsnop@kalamazoo.net> wrote:
I have been on DynaSkates since they first came out 4 years ago. I
highly recommend them. They are a bit pricey ($500 or $600), but they
have a great on snow feel and the suspension smoothes out the ride on
less than smooth pavement. I have them set up with Marwe 100mm
wheels (2,000 to 3,000 mile wheel life) and have averaged over 2,000
miles a year over those four years and they have held up well.
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