Yes folks, no tour with the Champions of the World, he has to go with part time rabble the Lions, and play some bunch of wooden spooners. Still, at least he'll get to play Argentina, a great height for any Englishman.
On Sun, 08 May 2005 19:06:44 GMT, "didgerman" <aw990012@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yes folks, no tour with the Champions of the World, he has to go with part >time rabble the Lions, and play some bunch of wooden spooners.>Still, at least he'll get to play Argentina, a great height for any >Englishman. >
Stupid decision from SCW. Jonny will quickly get injured (again), and will therefore be no use to anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't last the Argentina match.
There's no way that Jonny has shown good enough form to be selected for a Lions squad. Another piece of selection insanity from Sir Clive.
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select him for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so he's hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.
DaveyWavey wrote:> On Sun, 08 May 2005 19:06:44 GMT, "didgerman" <aw990012@hotmail.com>> wrote:>
Yes folks, no tour with the Champions of the World, he has to go with part >>time rabble the Lions, and play some bunch of wooden spooners.>>Still, at least he'll get to play Argentina, a great height for any >>Englishman. >>
Stupid decision from SCW. Jonny will quickly get injured (again), and> will therefore be no use to anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if he> doesn't last the Argentina match.>
There's no way that Jonny has shown good enough form to be selected> for a Lions squad. Another piece of selection insanity from Sir Clive.>
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of> actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select him> for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so he's> hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.
I think to select him for the Churchill Cup in Canada was sensible. He could wait it out until the other #10s had been crushed and then jet in to pick up the pieces. That was the plan? To bring him along now on day one seems to be asking for trouble. He is English, and therefore he must go.
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of> actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select him> for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so he's> hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of convalescense he would have stayed fit.
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of>> actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select>> him for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so>> he's hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of> convalescense he would have stayed fit.>
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.
"Walter Mitty" <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote in message news:3e95hiF1s147U1@uni-berlin.de...> DaveyWavey wrote:>>
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of>> actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select him>> for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so he's>> hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of > convalescense he would have stayed fit.>
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.
Does that qualify him for automatic selection for the rest of his life?
Uncle Bully wrote:> "Walter Mitty" <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:3e95hiF1s147U1@uni-berlin.de...>
DaveyWavey wrote:>>
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of>>>actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select him>>>for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so he's>>>hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.>>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of >>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.>
Does that qualify him for automatic selection for the rest of his life?>
No. But hes still young. great experience. A role model for many young players. A shoe in when at 100%.
Many factors come into it, certainly not your assertion that he "plays for a winning team".
By guiding England to #1 in the world, the RWC, I dont think Woodward is a complete idiot.
"Walter Mitty" <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote in message news:3e9fs0F1theeU1@uni-berlin.de...> Uncle Bully wrote:>> "Walter Mitty" <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:3e95hiF1s147U1@uni-berlin.de...>>
DaveyWavey wrote:>>>
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of>>>>actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select him>>>>for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so he's>>>>hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.>>>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of >>>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>>
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.>>
Does that qualify him for automatic selection for the rest of his life?>>
No. But hes still young. great experience. A role model for many young > players. A shoe in when at 100%.>
Many factors come into it, certainly not your assertion that he "plays for > a winning team".>
By guiding England to #1 in the world, the RWC, I dont think Woodward is a > complete idiot.
Besides, who wouldn't want to see Carter V Wilkinson?
On Mon, 09 May 2005 15:06:03 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote:
DaveyWavey wrote:>>
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of>> actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select him>> for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so he's>> hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of >convalescense he would have stayed fit.>
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously fragile, at the best of times. 3 full games are not enough to prepare him for a Lions tour.
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.
And he's played less than 300 minutes of rugby in the 18 months since. (probably - I can't be arsed to work out the precise number of minutes)
Good form cannot possibly just go into "suspended animation" during that sort of absence. He's not been cryogenically frozen, has he?
"Uncle Bully" <wakeupcall@optushome.com.au.REMOVE> wrote ...> "Walter Mitty" <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote ...>> DaveyWavey wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of>>> actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select him>>> for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so he's>>> hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of >> convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.
Does that qualify him for automatic selection for the rest of his life?
No, but you'd be mad not to include him in a squad of 40-odd and see how he shapes up.
On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:20:47 +0100, DaveyWavey <davey.wavey@none.com> wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 15:06:03 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>>wrote:
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of >>convalescense he would have stayed fit.
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously>fragile, at the best of times.
Calling Wilkinson fragile "at the best of times" is just absurd. Up until the WC anyone word-associating "Wilkinson" and "fragile" wouldn't have rugby on their mind at the time. It's not unique for players to have a long absence then return to international rugby.
3 full games are not enough to prepare him for a Lions tour.
Hardly ideal, no. The other extreme is the number of games those playing all season have under the belt. I doubt many of those are at their best. Then people like O'Driscoll and D'Arcy have hardly had injury-free rides.
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.
And he's played less than 300 minutes of rugby in the 18 months since.>(probably - I can't be arsed to work out the precise number of>minutes)>
Good form cannot possibly just go into "suspended animation" during>that sort of absence. He's not been cryogenically frozen, has he?
Given the form of Hodgson and O'Gara, it seems positively conservative to take Wilkinson on the tour, especially compared with some of the other selections. If Jones were injured, the Lions would be stuffed. I don't think there's any evidence this season that O'Gara or Hodgson would do better than the current Wilkinson.
Of course the main reason I'd like to see him good enough to get test time is to shove it up people like Greig and others I've forgotten who reckon he'll never play serious rugby again.
On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:20:47 +0100, DaveyWavey <davey.wavey@none.com> wrote:
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of >>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously>fragile, at the best of times. 3 full games are not enough to prepare>him for a Lions tour.>
I'm not part of the JW fan club but infamously fragile is not born out by the evidence; OK he's had a poor 18 months with 2 different injuries, before that he was famously unfragile
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.>
And he's played less than 300 minutes of rugby in the 18 months since.>(probably - I can't be arsed to work out the precise number of>minutes)>
Good form cannot possibly just go into "suspended animation" during>that sort of absence. He's not been cryogenically frozen, has he?
"DaveyWavey" <davey.wavey@none.com> wrote in message news:1orv719a0kpcie2b8l053onooilkanueo2@4ax.com...> On Mon, 09 May 2005 15:06:03 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>> wrote:>
DaveyWavey wrote:>>>
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of>>> actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select him>>> for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so he's>>> hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.>>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of>>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously> fragile, at the best of times.
Bzzzzt, he played for about 4-5 years without any serious injury.
3 full games are not enough to prepare> him for a Lions tour.
It's only NZ...
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.>
And he's played less than 300 minutes of rugby in the 18 months since.> (probably - I can't be arsed to work out the precise number of> minutes)>
Good form cannot possibly just go into "suspended animation" during> that sort of absence. He's not been cryogenically frozen, has he?
"John Williams" <tigerphileNOSPAM@THANKSntlworld.com> wrote in message news:vnj081t20asn6v2p68ns5qpkm2dt1maaom@4ax.com...> On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:20:47 +0100, DaveyWavey <davey.wavey@none.com>> wrote:>
On Mon, 09 May 2005 15:06:03 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>>>wrote:>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of>>>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously>>fragile, at the best of times.>
Calling Wilkinson fragile "at the best of times" is just absurd. Up> until the WC anyone word-associating "Wilkinson" and "fragile"> wouldn't have rugby on their mind at the time. It's not unique for> players to have a long absence then return to international rugby.>
3 full games are not enough to prepare him for a Lions tour.>
Hardly ideal, no. The other extreme is the number of games those> playing all season have under the belt. I doubt many of those are at> their best. Then people like O'Driscoll and D'Arcy have hardly had> injury-free rides.>
He was World Play Of The Year FFS. how quickly you all forget.>
And he's played less than 300 minutes of rugby in the 18 months since.>>(probably - I can't be arsed to work out the precise number of>>minutes)>>
Good form cannot possibly just go into "suspended animation" during>>that sort of absence. He's not been cryogenically frozen, has he?>
Given the form of Hodgson and O'Gara, it seems positively conservative> to take Wilkinson on the tour, especially compared with some of the> other selections. If Jones were injured, the Lions would be stuffed. I> don't think there's any evidence this season that O'Gara or Hodgson> would do better than the current Wilkinson.>
Of course the main reason I'd like to see him good enough to get test> time is to shove it up people like Greig and others I've forgotten who> reckon he'll never play serious rugby again.>
-- >
Regards,> John Williams
Well they're already proved wrong after the last 3 weeks...
If O'Gara can get back to early 6N form he'll be a god 10 for the Lions.
"Alan Luchetti" <not@home> wrote in message news:42803482$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au...>I don't barbed repartee, Didge but you're just an obnoxious unsubtle >troll - a total waste of bandwidth - and I'm not a kiwi.>
On Tue, 10 May 2005 07:14:10 +0000, John Hill <john@recruitcrm.co.uk> wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:20:47 +0100, DaveyWavey <davey.wavey@none.com>>wrote:>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of >>>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>>
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously>>fragile, at the best of times. 3 full games are not enough to prepare>>him for a Lions tour.>>
I'm not part of the JW fan club but infamously fragile is not born out>by the evidence; OK he's had a poor 18 months with 2 different>injuries, before that he was famously unfragile>
OK. Exaggeration on my part. But, he HAS been notably fragile for the last couple of years, as evidenced by his THREE big injuries since RWC03 (neck/shoulder; bicep; knee) that have all-but stopped him playing since.
"John Hill" <john@recruitcrm.co.uk> wrote in message news:dnn081tva8mviolvr6c4kdj6r0a6h9vlh8@4ax.com...> On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:20:47 +0100, DaveyWavey <davey.wavey@none.com>> wrote:>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of>>>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>>
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously>>fragile, at the best of times. 3 full games are not enough to prepare>>him for a Lions tour.>>
I'm not part of the JW fan club but infamously fragile is not born out> by the evidence; OK he's had a poor 18 months with 2 different> injuries, before that he was famously unfragile>
It may well have been the style he brought to the position that has meant he has become famously unfragile? But then again he could go on to never suffer a serious injury again. My feeling is that once players start to suffer injuries they seem to be regularly beset by them - maybe he is young enough to belie that trend - or maybe it isn't even a trend!
"John Hill" <john@recruitcrm.co.uk> wrote in message news:dnn081tva8mviolvr6c4kdj6r0a6h9vlh8@4ax.com...> On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:20:47 +0100, DaveyWavey <davey.wavey@none.com>> wrote:>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of>>>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>>
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously>>fragile, at the best of times. 3 full games are not enough to prepare>>him for a Lions tour.>>
I'm not part of the JW fan club but infamously fragile is not born out> by the evidence; OK he's had a poor 18 months with 2 different> injuries, before that he was famously unfragile>
But that's how fragility works. Everyone is unfragile until they get injured. It's how they comeback from injury that dictate whether they are in fact fragile, or not. JW has had 18 months off with different injuries. If that's not fragile then what is? (ie name another top player who has suffered more downtime than JW?)
"DaveyWavey" <davey.wavey@none.com> wrote in message news:1pp081drgv2im0nvqijqbep0hnbs30ibkc@4ax.com...> On Tue, 10 May 2005 07:14:10 +0000, John Hill <john@recruitcrm.co.uk>> wrote:>
On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:20:47 +0100, DaveyWavey <davey.wavey@none.com>>>wrote:>>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of>>>>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>>>
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously>>>fragile, at the best of times. 3 full games are not enough to prepare>>>him for a Lions tour.>>>
I'm not part of the JW fan club but infamously fragile is not born out>>by the evidence; OK he's had a poor 18 months with 2 different>>injuries, before that he was famously unfragile>>
OK. Exaggeration on my part. But, he HAS been notably fragile for the> last couple of years, as evidenced by his THREE big injuries since> RWC03 (neck/shoulder; bicep; knee) that have all-but stopped him> playing since.>
It's not just him though is it? Look at the other players that were involved in that regime.
"Uncle Bully" <wakeupcall@optushome.com.au.REMOVE> wrote in message news:428070bd$0$4657$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...>
"John Hill" <john@recruitcrm.co.uk> wrote in message > news:dnn081tva8mviolvr6c4kdj6r0a6h9vlh8@4ax.com...>> On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:20:47 +0100, DaveyWavey <davey.wavey@none.com>>> wrote:>>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of>>>>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>>>
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously>>>fragile, at the best of times. 3 full games are not enough to prepare>>>him for a Lions tour.>>>
I'm not part of the JW fan club but infamously fragile is not born out>> by the evidence; OK he's had a poor 18 months with 2 different>> injuries, before that he was famously unfragile>>
But that's how fragility works. Everyone is unfragile until they get > injured. It's how they comeback from injury that dictate whether they are > in fact fragile, or not.> JW has had 18 months off with different injuries. If that's not fragile > then what is? (ie name another top player who has suffered more downtime > than JW?)
Not sure but aren't Hill and Tindall running close? Hill was injured a bit before the WC no?
Of course the main reason I'd like to see him good enough to get test> time is to shove it up people like Greig and others I've forgotten who> reckon he'll never play serious rugby again.
On Tue, 10 May 2005 08:52:33 +0100, DaveyWavey <davey.wavey@none.com> wrote:
I'm not part of the JW fan club but infamously fragile is not born out>>by the evidence; OK he's had a poor 18 months with 2 different>>injuries, before that he was famously unfragile>>
OK. Exaggeration on my part. But, he HAS been notably fragile for the>last couple of years, as evidenced by his THREE big injuries since>RWC03 (neck/shoulder; bicep; knee) that have all-but stopped him>playing since.
Hardly surprising given the build up to RWC 03 and the demands of the ZP/HC.
On Tue, 10 May 2005 20:14:49 +1200, "Neilsons" <matt.neilson@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
I'm not part of the JW fan club but infamously fragile is not born out>> by the evidence; OK he's had a poor 18 months with 2 different>> injuries, before that he was famously unfragile>>
It may well have been the style he brought to the position that has meant he >has become famously unfragile? But then again he could go on to never >suffer a serious injury again. My feeling is that once players start to >suffer injuries they seem to be regularly beset by them - maybe he is young >enough to belie that trend - or maybe it isn't even a trend!>
Cheers, aMtt
Like, say, Dallaglio you mean Although you have a point. Overplaying is a serious concern in UK - except for the club management that is
On Tue, 10 May 2005 11:25:18 +0200, "Ali Day" <Alasdair.Day@NOSPAMcern.ch> wrote:
But that's how fragility works. Everyone is unfragile until they get >> injured. It's how they comeback from injury that dictate whether they are >> in fact fragile, or not.>> JW has had 18 months off with different injuries. If that's not fragile >> then what is? (ie name another top player who has suffered more downtime >> than JW?)>
Not sure but aren't Hill and Tindall running close? Hill was injured a bit >before the WC no?
On Tue, 10 May 2005 10:58:54 +0100, Sean Byrne <byrne_sean_spamtrap_@hotmail.com> wrote:
John Williams wrote:>
Of course the main reason I'd like to see him good enough to get test>> time is to shove it up people like Greig and others I've forgotten who>> reckon he'll never play serious rugby again.>
You don't think the ZP is serious rugby either?>
<--- obligatory.
Given the Mark of Didds, there's no need to reply!
On Tue, 10 May 2005 07:35:15 GMT, "didgerman" <aw990012@hotmail.com> wrote:
"DaveyWavey" <davey.wavey@none.com> wrote in message >news:1orv719a0kpcie2b8l053onooilkanueo2@4ax.com...>> On Mon, 09 May 2005 15:06:03 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>>> wrote:>>
DaveyWavey wrote:>>>>
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now: give Jonny a season of>>>> actually playing some competetive rugby at club-level, THEN select him>>>> for tough internationals. He's virtually had 18 months off, so he's>>>> hardly going to be fit for a Lions tour yet.>>>
He has played 3 full games since coming back. During that period of>>>convalescense he would have stayed fit.>>>
He's just come back from an 18 month break. And he's infamously>> fragile, at the best of times.>
Bzzzzt, he played for about 4-5 years without any serious injury.
And then he spent 18 months off injured, punctuated only by the odd 20 minutes here and there of "fitness" before managing to collect the next injury.
