Re: We've seen enough for the wild speculation to start.
Martyn Winters 13 March 2005 22:01:27
In <SW_Yd.579$qf7.228@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> Jon.R wrote:> OK, you pundits out there. We've seen enough of the home nations teams, > we've heard the bad news about JW and his recurring knee injury, so > how about taking a stab at the lineup for Sir Clive's squad to head > to New Zealand?>
Here's my punt, tried to be impartial, > Squad breakdown>
Wales 9> Ireland 10> England 9> Scotland 2
Sigh. Another load of anglo-centric tosh that doesn't recognise the simple fact that your pack has been ordinary this year. Most of the English forwards you've put forward (Corry being the exception) are seriously out of form.
"Jon.R" <richards_family_tree@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:SW_Yd.579$qf7.228@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...> OK, you pundits out there. We've seen enough of the home nations teams, > we've heard the bad news about JW and his recurring knee injury, so how > about taking a stab at the lineup for Sir Clive's squad to head to New > Zealand?>
Here's my punt, tried to be impartial, tried to pull together a squad that > you can make 2 teams out of as well, never sure about Tight/Loose props > etc. (even though I have played ther ein the distant past!) also looked > at the players most likely to perform together, and miraculously have > found space for 2 Scotsmen!!!>
ISTR that the Lions will consist of a squad of 45 players. If I'm correct who will be tne other 15?
"Martyn Winters" <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:20050313180317655+0000@news.ntlworld.com...> In <SW_Yd.579$qf7.228@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> Jon.R wrote:>> OK, you pundits out there. We've seen enough of the home nations teams,>> we've heard the bad news about JW and his recurring knee injury, so>> how about taking a stab at the lineup for Sir Clive's squad to head>> to New Zealand?>>
Here's my punt, tried to be impartial,>> Squad breakdown>>
Wales 9>> Ireland 10>> England 9>> Scotland 2>
Sigh. Another load of anglo-centric tosh that doesn't recognise the> simple fact that your pack has been ordinary this year. Most of the> English forwards you've put forward (Corry being the exception) are> seriously out of form.
Trouble is, can't see many candidates to replace them. Maybe Scott Murray, but the Scotland pack is hardly blowing anyone away right now either.
Rather than make cheap shots, have a go at a better selection, that is more realistic, clever clogs!
Martyn Winters 13 March 2005 22:27:42 [ permanent link ]
In <hv%Yd.617$qf7.515@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> Jon.R wrote:>
"Martyn Winters" <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote in message > news:20050313180317655+0000@news.ntlworld.com...>> In <SW_Yd.579$qf7.228@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> Jon.R wrote:>>> OK, you pundits out there. We've seen enough of the home nations >>> teams, we've heard the bad news about JW and his recurring knee >>> injury, so how about taking a stab at the lineup for Sir Clive's >>> squad to head to New Zealand?>>>
Here's my punt, tried to be impartial,>>> Squad breakdown>>>
Wales 9>>> Ireland 10>>> England 9>>> Scotland 2>>
Sigh. Another load of anglo-centric tosh that doesn't recognise the>> simple fact that your pack has been ordinary this year. Most of the>> English forwards you've put forward (Corry being the exception) are>> seriously out of form.>
Trouble is, can't see many candidates to replace them. Maybe Scott > Murray, but the Scotland pack is hardly blowing anyone away right now > either.>
Rather than make cheap shots, have a go at a better selection, that is > more realistic, clever clogs! >
You only have to look at who are the form sides in the 6N to get your answer. I'll give you a hint.... not England.
"Martyn Winters" <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:20050313182932659+0000@news.ntlworld.com...> In <hv%Yd.617$qf7.515@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> Jon.R wrote:>>
"Martyn Winters" <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote in message>> news:20050313180317655+0000@news.ntlworld.com...>>> In <SW_Yd.579$qf7.228@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> Jon.R wrote:>>>> OK, you pundits out there. We've seen enough of the home nations>>>> teams, we've heard the bad news about JW and his recurring knee>>>> injury, so how about taking a stab at the lineup for Sir Clive's>>>> squad to head to New Zealand?>>>>
Here's my punt, tried to be impartial,>>>> Squad breakdown>>>>
Wales 9>>>> Ireland 10>>>> England 9>>>> Scotland 2>>>
Sigh. Another load of anglo-centric tosh that doesn't recognise the>>> simple fact that your pack has been ordinary this year. Most of the>>> English forwards you've put forward (Corry being the exception) are>>> seriously out of form.>>
Trouble is, can't see many candidates to replace them. Maybe Scott>> Murray, but the Scotland pack is hardly blowing anyone away right now>> either.>>
Rather than make cheap shots, have a go at a better selection, that is>> more realistic, clever clogs!>>
You only have to look at who are the form sides in the 6N to get your> answer. I'll give you a hint.... not England.
Man that tiny win on specially ordered dodgy turf has gone right to your head hasn't it. Here's another thing, if England had won against France like Wales did, I'd no longer be watching the 6N. When a team opts for possible red cards or a penalty try, rather than playing the game, they've lost the plot.
"Martyn Winters" <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:20050313182932659+0000@news.ntlworld.com...> In <hv%Yd.617$qf7.515@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> Jon.R wrote:>>
"Martyn Winters" <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote in message>> news:20050313180317655+0000@news.ntlworld.com...>>> In <SW_Yd.579$qf7.228@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> Jon.R wrote:>>>> OK, you pundits out there. We've seen enough of the home nations>>>> teams, we've heard the bad news about JW and his recurring knee>>>> injury, so how about taking a stab at the lineup for Sir Clive's>>>> squad to head to New Zealand?>>>>
Here's my punt, tried to be impartial,>>>> Squad breakdown>>>>
Wales 9>>>> Ireland 10>>>> England 9>>>> Scotland 2>>>
Sigh. Another load of anglo-centric tosh that doesn't recognise the>>> simple fact that your pack has been ordinary this year. Most of the>>> English forwards you've put forward (Corry being the exception) are>>> seriously out of form.>>
Trouble is, can't see many candidates to replace them. Maybe Scott>> Murray, but the Scotland pack is hardly blowing anyone away right now>> either.>>
Rather than make cheap shots, have a go at a better selection, that is>> more realistic, clever clogs!>>
You only have to look at who are the form sides in the 6N to get your> answer. I'll give you a hint.... not England.
I sort of got that from your previous post. Trouble is you seem to be happier criticising, but not making any contribution yourself. Name names...go on give it a go!
Man that tiny win on specially ordered dodgy turf has gone right to your > head hasn't it.> Here's another thing, if England had won against France like Wales did, I'd > no longer be watching the 6N. When a team opts for possible red cards or a > penalty try, rather than playing the game, they've lost the plot. >
Kingsley Matthews 13 March 2005 23:07:06 [ permanent link ]
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:41:06 GMT, "Jon.R" <richards_family_tree@ntlworld.com> wrote:
OK, you pundits out there. We've seen enough of the home nations teams, >we've heard the bad news about JW and his recurring knee injury, so how >about taking a stab at the lineup for Sir Clive's squad to head to New >Zealand?>
Here's my punt, tried to be impartial, tried to pull together a squad that >you can make 2 teams out of as well, never sure about Tight/Loose props etc. >(even though I have played ther ein the distant past!) also looked at the >players most likely to perform together, and miraculously have found space >for 2 Scotsmen!!!>
British & Irish Lions 2005 (my speculative squad)>
Front Row> J Hayes> S Byrne> J White> M Stevens> A Jones> G Bulloch>
Should really find room for Tom Smith, probably the only other Scot worth considering.
2nd Row> M O Kelly> P O Connell> B Kay> D Grewcock> B Cockbain>
Grewcock is just not international standard.
Back Row> M Corry> L Moody> M Williams> S Taylor> J O'Connor> M Owen>
Half Backs> D Peel> P Stringer> S Jones> R O Gara>
They will probably take 6 half backs - Humphries will go, not sure about the other scrum half.
Centres> B O Driscoll> G Henson> J Noon> T Shanklin>
Back 3> J Lewsey> J Robinson> S Williams> G Murphy> D Hickie
After today they will have to find room for Rhys Williams and Kevin Morgan.>
"Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@spam.ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:%50Zd.1848$DM3.312@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...> didgerman wrote:>
Man that tiny win on specially ordered dodgy turf has gone right to your >> head hasn't it.>> Here's another thing, if England had won against France like Wales did, >> I'd no longer be watching the 6N. When a team opts for possible red cards >> or a penalty try, rather than playing the game, they've lost the plot.>
Please keep this stuff coming. It's sheer music.
Well, the turf was a joke, the guys that laid it got sacked. Probably didn't affect the result... But the way Wales kept France out toward the end of their game was the worst case of blatant cheating I've seen for awhile, if it were my team I'd voice my opinions and return to supporting them later when they'd cleaned up their act. We'll see what happens when the pressure is on against Ireland .
Martyn Winters 14 March 2005 00:14:18 [ permanent link ]
In <sD0Zd.3319$P86.779@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net> didgerman wrote:>
"Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@spam.ntlworld.com> wrote in message > news:%50Zd.1848$DM3.312@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...>> didgerman wrote:>>
Man that tiny win on specially ordered dodgy turf has gone right to >>> your head hasn't it. Here's another thing, if England had won >>> against France like Wales did, I'd no longer be watching the 6N. >>> When a team opts for possible red cards or a penalty try, rather >>> than playing the game, they've lost the plot.>>
Please keep this stuff coming. It's sheer music.>
Well, the turf was a joke, the guys that laid it got sacked. Probably > didn't affect the result... But the way Wales kept France out toward > the end of their game was the worst case of blatant cheating I've > seen for awhile, if it were my team I'd voice my opinions and return > to supporting them later when they'd cleaned up their act. We'll see > what happens when the pressure is on against Ireland .
Well, that tiny little win was better than the tiny little loss your lot have chalked up in the record books. Anyway, this thread is about who should be in the Lions and the initiator has proposed a shed load of English forwards who would have difficulty pushing a pram, never mind an All-Blacks pack. The only player of any merit whatsoever in your pack is Corry and I'm not sure he's as good Owen. I'll be giving some thought to the Lions makeup as soon as the last ball is kicked in the six nations. Until then, I'll be keeping my powder dry, other than to correct the notion that England have a pack worth worrying about these days.
"rick boyd" <boyd@comswest.net.au> wrote in message news:4234ba35@quokka.wn.com.au...> Jon.R wrote:>
Rather than make cheap shots, have a go at a better selection, that is >> more realistic, clever clogs!>
Totally naive comment there Jon. What the packs needs is more Welshmen, > right Martyn?>
-- rick boyd
I figured that was his main complaint, but was merely asking that he fess up and make his choices.
After all I have only selected 6 out of a total of 17 forwards, would accept that both of Kay & Grewcock is a little indulgent, and maybe even agree that Stevens is still a little wet behind the ears, but was waiting for Mr Williams (wonder where he comes from then...boyo!) to name names... after all it's easy to say 'that's crap, when you are not suggesting a real alternative
"John Williams" <tigerphileNOSPAM@THANKSntlworld.com> wrote in message news:t7h9311hseccg9tkf1s8cgr1cn3u4i10od@4ax.com...> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 20:14:18 GMT, Martyn Winters> <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote:>
The only player of any merit whatsoever in your pack is>>Corry and I'm not sure he's as good Owen.>
Oh, I think Corry is past it. Leave him at home so he can captain> Leicester from a fresh start next season.>
In fact, leave all the England players at home, and let Wales beat NZ> in NZ for the first time all on their own.>
"John Williams" <tigerphileNOSPAM@THANKSntlworld.com> wrote in message news:ffk9319mib62sdekoeghvceoitnbuem01g@4ax.com...> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:21:28 GMT, "Jon.R"> <richards_family_tree@ntlworld.com> wrote:
[...] but was waiting for Mr Williams (wonder where he comes from >> then...boyo!)
Steady, sunshine. We have applied for diaspora status. Ask Jim, Bryan,> Morgan and Chester.
... and that insufferable whining jock from Dublin
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:53:18 +1100, "Alan Luchetti" <not@home> wrote:
"John Williams" <tigerphileNOSPAM@THANKSntlworld.com> wrote in message >news:ffk9319mib62sdekoeghvceoitnbuem01g@4ax.com...>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:21:28 GMT, "Jon.R">> <richards_family_tree@ntlworld.com> wrote:>
[...] but was waiting for Mr Williams (wonder where he comes from >>> then...boyo!)>
Steady, sunshine. We have applied for diaspora status. Ask Jim, Bryan,>> Morgan and Chester.>
... and that insufferable whining jock from Dublin
Yes, unfortunately we all have our crosses to bear. I think he's in the double diaspora bracket though.
"Jon.R" <richards_family_tree@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:SW_Yd.579$qf7.228@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...> OK, you pundits out there. We've seen enough of the home nations teams,> we've heard the bad news about JW and his recurring knee injury, so how> about taking a stab at the lineup for Sir Clive's squad to head to New> Zealand?>
Here's my punt, tried to be impartial, tried to pull together a squad that> you can make 2 teams out of as well, never sure about Tight/Loose props
etc.> (even though I have played ther ein the distant past!) also looked at the> players most likely to perform together, and miraculously have found space> for 2 Scotsmen!!!>
British & Irish Lions 2005 (my speculative squad)>
Front Row> J Hayes> S Byrne> J White> M Stevens> A Jones> G Bulloch>
2nd Row> M O Kelly> P O Connell> B Kay> D Grewcock> B Cockbain>
Back Row> M Corry> L Moody> M Williams> S Taylor> J O'Connor> M Owen>
Half Backs> D Peel> P Stringer> S Jones> R O Gara>
Centres> B O Driscoll> G Henson> J Noon> T Shanklin>
Back 3> J Lewsey> J Robinson> S Williams> G Murphy> D Hickie>
Squad breakdown>
Wales 9> Ireland 10> England 9> Scotland 2
I would respectfully suggest that you know very little.
1- If you vaguely knew anything about this tour you would know that there will be 44 players.
2- Where the hell did you get those front row players from- they are all tight heads.
3- What about class players that have missed the entire 6N through injury? Duncan Jones? Charvis? Hill? D'Arcy?
4- Some bizarre selections- Cockbain? O'Callaghan has been far superior? O'Kelly has been poor too. Scott Murray is a much better shout.
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:07:06 GMT, Kingsley Matthews <toomuchspam.kingsley.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:41:06 GMT, "Jon.R"><richards_family_tree@ntlworld.com> wrote:>
OK, you pundits out there. We've seen enough of the home nations teams, >>we've heard the bad news about JW and his recurring knee injury, so how >>about taking a stab at the lineup for Sir Clive's squad to head to New >>Zealand?>>
Here's my punt, tried to be impartial, tried to pull together a squad that >>you can make 2 teams out of as well, never sure about Tight/Loose props etc. >>(even though I have played ther ein the distant past!) also looked at the >>players most likely to perform together, and miraculously have found space >>for 2 Scotsmen!!!>>
British & Irish Lions 2005 (my speculative squad)>>
Front Row>> J Hayes>> S Byrne>> J White>> M Stevens>> A Jones>> G Bulloch>>
Should really find room for Tom Smith, probably the only other Scot>worth considering.
I though he looked like he was trying to make it work yesterday>
2nd Row>> M O Kelly>> P O Connell>> B Kay>> D Grewcock>> B Cockbain>>
Grewcock is just not international standard.>
Who would you suggest instead. I fail to see what Shaw has done wrong.
Back Row>> M Corry>> L Moody>> M Williams>> S Taylor>> J O'Connor>> M Owen
Hill will be fit by then I'd take him and see how he looks midweek.
Half Backs>> D Peel>> P Stringer>> S Jones>> R O Gara>>
They will probably take 6 half backs - Humphries will go, not sure>about the other scrum half -
Woodward will probably take Dawson.
Centres>> B O Driscoll>> G Henson>> J Noon>> T Shanklin>>
I only saw the 2nd half of Scotland v Wales. Thought Henson looked unimpressive
Back 3>> J Lewsey>> J Robinson>> S Williams>> G Murphy>> D Hickie>
After today they will have to find room for Rhys Williams and Kevin>Morgan.>>
Squad breakdown>>
Wales 9>>Ireland 10>>England 9>>Scotland 2
I'd wait until after the Wales Ireland match though.
The Green Phantom 14 March 2005 15:13:12 [ permanent link ]
didgerman wrote:
"Martyn Winters" <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
[...]
Man that tiny win on specially ordered dodgy turf has gone right to your> head hasn't it.> Here's another thing, if England had won against France like Wales did,> I'd no longer be watching the 6N. When a team opts for possible red cards> or a penalty try, rather than playing the game, they've lost the plot.
Didge let it go. Sleep easier at night. You have been consistently wrong about that game and god knows the postings were copious enough for me to killfile them all eventually.
Look at the Welsh performances since the Autumn - against NZ and SA, then follow it up with this 6N.
Are you seriously trying to suggest that Wales are NOT having a resurgence at present?
regards
The Green Phantom -- When does later become never?
"The Green Phantom" <ask@the.right.time> wrote in message news:423570d6$0$566$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...> didgerman wrote:>
"Martyn Winters" <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote in message>
[...]>
Man that tiny win on specially ordered dodgy turf has gone right to your>> head hasn't it.>> Here's another thing, if England had won against France like Wales did,>> I'd no longer be watching the 6N. When a team opts for possible red cards>> or a penalty try, rather than playing the game, they've lost the plot.>
Didge let it go. Sleep easier at night. You have been consistently wrong> about that game and god knows the postings were copious enough for me to> killfile them all eventually.>
Look at the Welsh performances since the Autumn - against NZ and SA, then> follow it up with this 6N.>
Are you seriously trying to suggest that Wales are NOT having a resurgence> at present?>
regards>
The Green Phantom> -- > When does later become never?>
Of course they are, it started in the last RWC iirc. However, I wouldn't be happy with the win if England had disrupted French scoring chances like that. There comes a point where you have to consider the game, rather than the result.
Of course they are, it started in the last RWC iirc. However, I> wouldn't be happy with the win if England had disrupted French scoring> chances like that. There comes a point where you have to consider the> game, rather than the result.
You didn't enjoy England's win in NZ a couple of years ago then?
Man that tiny win on specially ordered dodgy turf has gone right to your > head hasn't it.> Here's another thing, if England had won against France like Wales did, I'd > no longer be watching the 6N. When a team opts for possible red cards or a > penalty try, rather than playing the game, they've lost the plot.
The irony. -- "At least we went out and played in that first half. And what have France done? They've won with kicks from the 10-metre line. It's bitterly frustrating." - Andy Robinson
didgerman scribbled:> "Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@spam.ntlworld.com> wrote in message > news:%50Zd.1848$DM3.312@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...>>didgerman wrote:>>
Man that tiny win on specially ordered dodgy turf has gone right to your >>>head hasn't it.>>>Here's another thing, if England had won against France like Wales did, >>>I'd no longer be watching the 6N. When a team opts for possible red cards >>>or a penalty try, rather than playing the game, they've lost the plot.>>
Please keep this stuff coming. It's sheer music.>
Well, the turf was a joke, the guys that laid it got sacked. Probably didn't > affect the result...
Then why mention it you fucking imbecile?
-- "At least we went out and played in that first half. And what have France done? They've won with kicks from the 10-metre line. It's bitterly frustrating." - Andy Robinson
With some help... -- "At least we went out and played in that first half. And what have France done? They've won with kicks from the 10-metre line. It's bitterly frustrating." - Andy Robinson
Martyn Winters 14 March 2005 18:31:38 [ permanent link ]
In <miia315uu3c9ul365pbvr2e6slt29ctbrf@4ax.com> John Hill wrote:> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:07:06 GMT, Kingsley Matthews> <toomuchspam.kingsley.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:>
I'd wait until after the Wales Ireland match though.
I agree. We've not seen enough until the two leading teams have played each other, then we might have the basis for a rational proposition. Let's put it another way. If Ireland absolutely wipe the floor with Wales on Saturday, then what price the Welsh players?
On 14 Mar 2005 14:31:38 GMT, Martyn Winters <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote:
In <miia315uu3c9ul365pbvr2e6slt29ctbrf@4ax.com> John Hill wrote:>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:07:06 GMT, Kingsley Matthews>> <toomuchspam.kingsley.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:>>
I'd wait until after the Wales Ireland match though.>
I agree. We've not seen enough until the two leading teams have played >each other, then we might have the basis for a rational proposition. >Let's put it another way. If Ireland absolutely wipe the floor with >Wales on Saturday, then what price the Welsh players?
Woodward is unlikely to be too concerned about the result when considering players. A draw isn't too likely. A fair few Welsh and Irish will be in the squad, whatever the result. You can't blame the front row or centres if the team scrum half has a mare and the team loses.
And then quite a few Irish and English players are going to have a last shot on the big stage in the HC quarter finals, before the April 11th squad announcement.
Only one glaring ommission- Gethin Jenkins- prop for wales- has been outstanding but most of the others I would probably agree- "Jon.R" <richards_family_tree@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:SW_Yd.579$qf7.228@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...> OK, you pundits out there. We've seen enough of the home nations teams, > we've heard the bad news about JW and his recurring knee injury, so how > about taking a stab at the lineup for Sir Clive's squad to head to New > Zealand?>
Here's my punt, tried to be impartial, tried to pull together a squad that > you can make 2 teams out of as well, never sure about Tight/Loose props > etc. (even though I have played ther ein the distant past!) also looked > at the players most likely to perform together, and miraculously have > found space for 2 Scotsmen!!!>
British & Irish Lions 2005 (my speculative squad)>
Front Row> J Hayes> S Byrne> J White> M Stevens> A Jones> G Bulloch>
2nd Row> M O Kelly> P O Connell> B Kay> D Grewcock> B Cockbain>
Back Row> M Corry> L Moody> M Williams> S Taylor> J O'Connor> M Owen>
Half Backs> D Peel> P Stringer> S Jones> R O Gara>
Centres> B O Driscoll> G Henson> J Noon> T Shanklin>
Back 3> J Lewsey> J Robinson> S Williams> G Murphy> D Hickie>
"Martyn Winters" <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:20050314143134075+0000@newsgroups.tellermate.com...> In <miia315uu3c9ul365pbvr2e6slt29ctbrf@4ax.com> John Hill wrote:>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:07:06 GMT, Kingsley Matthews>> <toomuchspam.kingsley.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:>>
I'd wait until after the Wales Ireland match though.>
I agree. We've not seen enough until the two leading teams have played> each other, then we might have the basis for a rational proposition.> Let's put it another way. If Ireland absolutely wipe the floor with> Wales on Saturday, then what price the Welsh players?
One half empty bottle of hair gel and a 16 gallon can of curry paste tan.
Woodward is unlikely to be too concerned about the result when> considering players.
Is Woodie the only selector?
-- "At least we went out and played in that first half. And what have France done? They've won with kicks from the 10-metre line. It's bitterly frustrating." - Andy Robinson
In article <20050313180317655+0000@news.ntlworld.com>, Martyn Winters <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote:
<<stuff deleted>>
Sigh. Another load of anglo-centric tosh that doesn't recognise the > simple fact that your pack has been ordinary this year. Most of the > English forwards you've put forward (Corry being the exception) are > seriously out of form.
The interesting part of the Lions selection will be to see what Woodward does with the guys who won him a RWC but now aren't playing that well. A big squad means that I would guess many of them will make the trip, but the question is who then makes the Test side. Whether it is right or not, I think Woodward will be somewhat influenced by the idea that his familiar faces already know what it takes to beat New Zealand.
I also don't understand why anyone is taking at face value Woodward's comments about not taking players along who can't prove their fitness ahead of the tour. His track record suggests he may well say one thing and do entirely another. I'd expect to see the likes of Wilkinson, Hill, Tindall, Greenwood, and Vickery getting on the plane if there is any chance at all of them being fit in time for the Tests. As I said though, whether they make the Test side is another matter.
Just to try to avoid getting accused of furthering the anglo-centric tosh, this isn't what I would do, but it is what I expect to Woodward to do.
