As an England fan, I'm perturbed to see that pundits have him favourite to start aT nO. 10 for the Lions. I would much rather Jonny miss out on the Lions Tour. He's hardly going to be ready for it is he? Give the guy a break fer chrissakes and Lord Woody (if you're listening) think of England first. Yes yes, I know...
I'd hate to see him beaten up by those nasty New Zealanders and be out again next season. They can be very rough some of them you know. No, they *can* really...
On 25 Feb 2005 03:57:31 -0800, "Uncle Dave" <davidcovey@t-online.de> wrote:
As an England fan, I'm perturbed to see that pundits have him favourite>to start aT nO. 10 for the Lions. I would much rather Jonny miss out>on the Lions Tour. He's hardly going to be ready for it is he? Give>the guy a break fer chrissakes and Lord Woody (if you're listening)>think of England first. Yes yes, I know...>
I'd hate to see him beaten up by those nasty New Zealanders and be out>again next season. They can be very rough some of them you know. No,>they *can* really...>
UD
Agreed. His match fitness can't be up to much, and throwing someone who hasn't really played any rugby for 18 months straight into a Lions tour is lunacy.
He's still got time to come back, but he won't if he gets fucked on this tour.
"DaveyWavey" <davey.wavey@none.com> wrote in message news:moo0211k9ti3mmtv4dr7r6tu80s1telg00@4ax.com...> On 25 Feb 2005 03:57:31 -0800, "Uncle Dave" <davidcovey@t-online.de>> wrote:
Maybe the bench would be a good place for him.
Bring him on at 17 all with 2 minutes to go in the final and deciding test? Ellis slips the ball back to Wilkinson, who passes to Hodgson, drop goal attempt! Oooooh, well wide of the left post.....
William A. T. Clark 28 February 2005 23:18:54 [ permanent link ]
In article <20050228131325426+0000@newsgroups.tellermate.com>, Martyn Winters <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote:
In <IrETd.218$LF2.21@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net> didgerman wrote:> >
"Uncle Dave" <davidcovey@t-online.de> wrote in message > > news:1109332651.610377.198680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...> >> As an England fan, I'm perturbed to see that pundits have him > >> favourite to start aT nO. 10 for the Lions. I would much rather > >> Jonny miss out on the Lions Tour. He's hardly going to be ready for > >> it is he? Give the guy a break fer chrissakes and Lord Woody (if > >> you're listening) think of England first. Yes yes, I know...> >>
I'd hate to see him beaten up by those nasty New Zealanders and be > >> out again next season. They can be very rough some of them you know. > >> No, they *can* really...> >>
I agree, Wilkinson may be fit by then, but he'll have no time to prove > > his ability. My Lions ten is Conan O'Gara followed by our own Buzby, > > followed by Dan Parks, the guy who plays for that awful place in > > Scotland... Goode could stake a claim in time, as could a couple of > > others, but Wilco has left it all too late now, he'd have to do > > something pretty special to warrant inclusion. Besides, he's got time > > for another Lions tour..... > >
O'Gara's not hard enough. Double that for Miss Barkely. If Wilko is fit, > then he's the man. Failing that, it's Jones.
Yes, well Barry John wasn't exactly the Terminator either, but he still managed to scare the daylights out of the ABs. O'Gara has to go - who with remains to be seen.
Yes, well Barry John wasn't exactly the Terminator either, but he still > managed to scare the daylights out of the ABs. O'Gara has to go - who > with remains to be seen.>
William A. T. Clark 1 March 2005 17:16:32 [ permanent link ]
In article <n_KUd.3126$Ho6.24@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, Martyn Winters <ziggy.stardust@ntlworld.com> wrote:
William A. T. Clark wrote:>
Yes, well Barry John wasn't exactly the Terminator either, but he still > > managed to scare the daylights out of the ABs. O'Gara has to go - who > > with remains to be seen.> >
William Clark>
O'Gara isn't Barry John.
Hardly the point. You don't need to be Martin Johnson to succeed on a Lions tour.
In <clark.31-7241BA.08163201032005@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> William A. T. Clark wrote:> In article <n_KUd.3126$Ho6.24@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,> Martyn Winters <ziggy.stardust@ntlworld.com> wrote:>
William A. T. Clark wrote:>>
Yes, well Barry John wasn't exactly the Terminator either, but he >> > still managed to scare the daylights out of the ABs. O'Gara has to >> > go - who with remains to be seen. William Clark>>
O'Gara isn't Barry John.>
Hardly the point. You don't need to be Martin Johnson to succeed on a > Lions tour.>
William Clark
Well you made the point. Make your mind up. IMO O'Gara isn't tough enough to compete successfully on the impending Lions tour. This is going to be a real physical contest and to take a guy just because he can kick (and in my view he offers little else), is absolute nonsense. To take a player who will have difficulty coping with the physical demands of the tour makes it doubly so. If O'Gara had any other redeeming feature it might be worth it. He doesn't.
"William A. T. Clark" <clark.31@nospamosu.edu> wrote in message news:<clark.31-90569C.14185428022005@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>...> In article <20050228131325426+0000@newsgroups.tellermate.com>,> Martyn Winters <zebedee.drownstaff@ntlworld.com> wrote:>
In <IrETd.218$LF2.21@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net> didgerman wrote:> > >
"Uncle Dave" <davidcovey@t-online.de> wrote in message > > > news:1109332651.610377.198680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...> > >> As an England fan, I'm perturbed to see that pundits have him > > >> favourite to start aT nO. 10 for the Lions. I would much rather > > >> Jonny miss out on the Lions Tour. He's hardly going to be ready for > > >> it is he? Give the guy a break fer chrissakes and Lord Woody (if > > >> you're listening) think of England first. Yes yes, I know...> > >>
I'd hate to see him beaten up by those nasty New Zealanders and be > > >> out again next season. They can be very rough some of them you know. > > >> No, they *can* really...> > >>
I agree, Wilkinson may be fit by then, but he'll have no time to prove > > > his ability. My Lions ten is Conan O'Gara followed by our own Buzby, > > > followed by Dan Parks, the guy who plays for that awful place in > > > Scotland... Goode could stake a claim in time, as could a couple of > > > others, but Wilco has left it all too late now, he'd have to do > > > something pretty special to warrant inclusion. Besides, he's got time > > > for another Lions tour..... > > >
O'Gara's not hard enough. Double that for Miss Barkely. If Wilko is fit, > > then he's the man. Failing that, it's Jones.>
Yes, well Barry John wasn't exactly the Terminator either, but he still > managed to scare the daylights out of the ABs. O'Gara has to go - who > with remains to be seen.>
William Clark
Wilko will be first choice provided he's fit. He's worth having in the side just because the opposition gets fixated on what he's going to do and how they're going to stop him.
Wilko will be first choice provided he's fit. He's worth having in the> side just because the opposition gets fixated on what he's going to do> and how they're going to stop him.
What is he, Jonah Lomu?
He's worth having in the side because he is an accurate goal kicker, and that should be the first position filled in any team. Also he is a good strategic kicker, a good defender and a reasonable all round performer. His error rate is low and he is a consistent player.
The only terror he is likely to inspire in the opposition is a fear of committing penalties in their own half, which often leads to either committing more penalties, or letting England away with murder.
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 05:37:40 +0800, Rick Boyd <boyd@comswest.net.au> wrote:
The only terror he is likely to inspire in the opposition is a fear of >committing penalties in their own half, which often leads to either >committing more penalties, or letting England away with murder.
Why is not committing penalty offences "letting England away with murder?"
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 05:37:40 +0800, Rick Boyd <boyd@comswest.net.au>> wrote:>
The only terror he is likely to inspire in the opposition is a fear of >>committing penalties in their own half, which often leads to either >>committing more penalties, or letting England away with murder.>
Why is not committing penalty offences "letting England away with> murder?"
Because England then feel free to take any amount of transgressions they want, knowing that the opposition will be extra careful not to retaliate because they don't want to concede the penalty.
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:57:00 +0800, Rick Boyd <boyd@comswest.net.au> wrote:
John Williams wrote:>
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 05:37:40 +0800, Rick Boyd <boyd@comswest.net.au>>> wrote:>>
The only terror he is likely to inspire in the opposition is a fear of >>>committing penalties in their own half, which often leads to either >>>committing more penalties, or letting England away with murder.>>
Why is not committing penalty offences "letting England away with>> murder?" >
Because England then feel free to take any amount of transgressions they >want, knowing that the opposition will be extra careful not to retaliate >because they don't want to concede the penalty.
That's not a consequence of good goal-kicking, but bad refereeing or bad adaptation to the ref. How often are penalties reversed? Not that often.
Rick Boyd <boyd@comswest.net.au> wrote in message news:<422632ed$1@quokka.wn.com.au>...> Bruce Anderson wrote:>
Wilko will be first choice provided he's fit. He's worth having in the> > side just because the opposition gets fixated on what he's going to do> > and how they're going to stop him.>
What is he, Jonah Lomu?>
He's worth having in the side because he is an accurate goal kicker, and > that should be the first position filled in any team. Also he is a good > strategic kicker, a good defender and a reasonable all round performer. > His error rate is low and he is a consistent player.>
The only terror he is likely to inspire in the opposition is a fear of > committing penalties in their own half, which often leads to either > committing more penalties, or letting England away with murder.>
-- rick boyd
so he's worth having then. if the opposition are desperate not to give away penalties the lions will get quick ball. Give BOD quick ball and NZ will have something else to think about.
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:26:51 +0800, Rick Boyd <boyd@comswest.net.au> wrote:
Rick:>Because England then feel free to take any amount of transgressions they >want, knowing that the opposition will be extra careful not to retaliate >because they don't want to concede the penalty.
John Williams wrote:>
That's not a consequence of good goal-kicking, but bad refereeing or>> bad adaptation to the ref. How often are penalties reversed? Not that>> often.>
I'm not talking about penalties being reversed.>
I'm talking about a team that is afraid to give away penalties because >they know the opposiiton goal kicker will punish them.>
They try not to play in their own half (doesn't everyone?).>
They try not to give away silly penalties in their own half.>
They let the opposition push them that little bit further, they are so >careful not to give away penalties.>
Having an automaton kicker can intimdate the opposition. Six penalties >(which is not an unusual number of kickable penalties) can be an >automatic 18 points and in a test match, that can destroy a team.
All teams should try not to give away silly penalties. I still can't see why that means a team would be able to transgress because they have a good penalty kicker though, as in your comment re-instated above. If the team with the good kicker transgresses, then it is a penalty against them if the ref is worth his salt.
Of course. A reliable kicker is ALWAYS worth having.
if the opposition are desperate not to give away penalties the lions> will get quick ball. Give BOD quick ball and NZ will have something> else to think about.
Hmm. He'll be doing more than he has for Ireland, presumably. For the allegedly world's best centre (Stirling Mortlock, by a country mile, by my estimate) he hasn't exactly blazed a trail of glory so far this year.
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 06:09:44 +0800, Rick Boyd <boyd@comswest.net.au> wrote:
John Williams wrote:
All teams should try not to give away silly penalties.
Come along now John, let's not pretend, eh? Teams (cunning, experienced >teams like England recently were) are only too happy to give away >penalties in the opposition half, and in their own half too if the >opposition has a crap kicker -- if they think they can get away with >some of them, and it will drive the opposition to distraction.
Yes, but what I still don't understand is your comment, this letting England (get) away with murder business.
"The only terror he [Wilkinson] likely to inspire in the opposition is a fear of committing penalties in their own half, which often leads to either committing more penalties, or letting England away with murder."
I still can't>> see why that means a team would be able to transgress because they>> have a good penalty kicker though, as in your comment re-instated>> above. If the team with the good kicker transgresses, then it is a>> penalty against them if the ref is worth his salt. >
Sure. But the opposition won't be able to capitalise on it like the team >with the good kicker can. So one team is dead scared of giving away >penalties, and the other team isn't that worried. One teams knows it can >take liberties and the other team knows it can't.
I'm still confused, I'm afraid. If you are saying England could get away with committing penalty offences because they have a good kicker, I'm lost. If you are saying teams can commit penalty offences against England because England currently don't have a reliable kicker, then I agree, but still haven't the foggiest why that means England can get "away with murder" when they have a good kicker themselves.
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 06:05:11 +0800, Rick Boyd <boyd@comswest.net.au> wrote:
Bruce Anderson wrote:>
so he's worth having then.>
Of course. A reliable kicker is ALWAYS worth having.>
if the opposition are desperate not to give away penalties the lions>> will get quick ball. Give BOD quick ball and NZ will have something>> else to think about.>
Hmm. He'll be doing more than he has for Ireland, presumably. For the >allegedly world's best centre (Stirling Mortlock,
Seriously? Sure, he was master of the crash ball, but is he really up to BOD's standard?
by a country mile, by >my estimate) he hasn't exactly blazed a trail of glory so far this year.>
He's not been firing at his best, but he's been pretty sound. But I agree he was much better last year.
