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GYXU > Pro Wrestling > Xbox Details leak... 11 May 2005 04:20:16

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Xbox Details leak...

Krusty 10 May 2005 19:07:36
 Krusty Notes:
1. White? Who wants to have a grungy white/dirt controller after about a
week?
2. Wireless? Fucking finally! Try putting together a wireless solution for
Xbox now and having headset capability w/XBL...good luck.
3. Wireless networking, multimedia capabilities (music/video)
4. Let me just say, "Universal HD support" = *drool*
5. "..two tiers of the Xbox Live online gaming service, one free and one
with a subscription." Hello, now you cheap fuckers have no excuse
6. Kiss Sony goodbye, you won't see a PS3 until sometime in 2006


http://story.news.y­ahoo.com/news?tmpl=s­tory&cid=581&e=1&u=/­nm/20050509/tc_nm/mi­crosoft_xbox_dc

Extensive details of Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq:MSFT - news) newest video
game console leaked out on the Internet on Monday, three days ahead of the
console's formal worldwide unveiling on MTV.
Based on pictures and purported eyewitness accounts that made the rounds of
the Internet over the weekend, the console will be known as "Xbox 360."

Microsoft would not confirm any of the information circulating on the Web,
saying "everything you are reading about at this point is buzz and
speculation."

The console is mostly white and designed to stand on one end, will feature a
wireless controller and also a remote control that appears to handle
multimedia functions like audio and video playback, according to various
online forums that track consumer technologies.

The console's power button has "skins," customizable appearances that can
apparently be added by the user. Other peripheral devices that appeared in
some of the shots include a headset and a kind of Web camera. The pictures
first appeared prominently on the tech Web site Engadget.com.

On Monday afternoon, gaming and technology Web sites including TeamXbox.com,
GamingHorizon.com and Engadget began to publish identical-looking lists with
detailed technical specifications for the console.

Among those details were a detachable 20 gigabyte hard drive, support for
wireless networking, three 3.2 gigahertz central processors, surround sound
and universal support for high-definition video.

The sites also said there would be two tiers of the Xbox Live online gaming
service, one free and one with a subscription that would offer enhanced
matchmaking and customization features.

Plenty of details remain to be revealed, including when exactly Xbox 360
will ship, what it will cost, what will be included, what games will be
available at launch and whether it will be compatible with games for the
original Xbox.

It was not clear if all of those questions will be answered on Thursday's
MTV broadcast, or even next week at the news conference Microsoft will hold
at E3, the annual games industry trade show in Los Angeles.

Microsoft said in early April it would unveil its new console on MTV, a
change in tactics in an industry where new hardware has always been revealed
at trade shows closed to the public. Microsoft said at the time it wanted to
break that mold and drum up public enthusiasm for its new machine.

That Microsoft planned a new console this year was perhaps the worst-kept
secret in the industry though, as game publishers have said over the last
few months they expect a new console ahead of this year's holiday season.

The original Xbox launched a year after the debut of market leader, Sony
Corp.'s (6758.T) PlayStation 2, and that head start proved invaluable to
Sony. Early on in the Xbox's life Microsoft promised it would not be beaten
to market with its next console.

Sony is expected to offer some details about the PlayStation 3 at E3 next
week, though the console itself is not expected until sometime in 2006.


Add comment
GM Collins 10 May 2005 19:42:55 permanent link ]
 
Krusty Notes:> 1. White? Who wants to have a grungy white/dirt controller after about a > week?> 2. Wireless? Fucking finally! Try putting together a wireless solution for > Xbox now and having headset capability w/XBL...good luck.> 3. Wireless networking, multimedia capabilities (music/video)> 4. Let me just say, "Universal HD support" = *drool*> 5. "..two tiers of the Xbox Live online gaming service, one free and one > with a subscription." Hello, now you cheap fuckers have no excuse> 6. Kiss Sony goodbye, you won't see a PS3 until sometime in 2006

I wish they would announce for certain if it is backwards compatible with
the original Xbox games. All signs seem to point that it will be, but MS
hasn't said anything officially yet. My Xbox is pretty well hosed right now
and I really don't want the games I have going to waste.


Add comment
Krusty 10 May 2005 19:54:34 permanent link ]
 "GM Collins" <gcollins@*SPAM*hfc­c.net**> wrote>> Krusty Notes:>> 1. White? Who wants to have a grungy white/dirt controller after about a >> week?>> 2. Wireless? Fucking finally! Try putting together a wireless solution >> for Xbox now and having headset capability w/XBL...good luck.>> 3. Wireless networking, multimedia capabilities (music/video)>> 4. Let me just say, "Universal HD support" = *drool*>> 5. "..two tiers of the Xbox Live online gaming service, one free and one >> with a subscription." Hello, now you cheap fuckers have no excuse>> 6. Kiss Sony goodbye, you won't see a PS3 until sometime in 2006>
I wish they would announce for certain if it is backwards compatible with > the original Xbox games. All signs seem to point that it will be, but MS > hasn't said anything officially yet. My Xbox is pretty well hosed right > now and I really don't want the games I have going to waste.

I have to think so too. It's based on the same architecture. I mean, there's
nothing radically different about the underlying architecture. It's not like
what Sony is doing with the PS3, going from one chip design to another. I
just see it as a "second generation" Xbox with features that the first one
couldn't do at the time (wireless, bigger HD, mm features, HD, etc).

What, technically, has anyone seen out there that would even *hint* at it
being a departure in architecture?


Add comment
Pope GregoryD 10 May 2005 20:01:12 permanent link ]
 ViNNY knelt and kissed my pinky ring before declaring:
Krusty wrote:>> "GM Collins" <gcollins@*SPAM*hfc­c.net**> wrote>>
The major hardware difference is that they are going with the IBM PowerPC>>>based CPU on the 360, and the Xbox had good old Intel. I don't know>>>enough about the IBM CPU's to know what kind of difference that would>>>make, however.>>
I didn't know that.>>
Okay, that's a huge difference, and I'd be hard pressed to see that being>> backwards compatible. Seriously. PowerPC is a true risc based processor,>> and the G4/G5s coming out of IBM now are operating on a 128 bit data bus,>> there's nothing at Intel that comes close to that. They're a combination>> of CISC with a little "pseudo RISC" thrown in.>>
Those games have been compiled to the intel architecture, and now they're>> on a whole new chip.>>
This is *exactly* like trying to play a PC game on a Macintosh. Going>> from "Battlefield 1942" which was compiled to run on Intel and putting it>> in your Mac and wondering why it won't play.>
But with *three* PowerPC chips running at 3.2Ghz, surely they can manage> to emulate x86 at 733Mhz...>
-Vin

Probably not. Not saying it can't be done, but it's pretty unlikely. The
problem you get when you try to emulate a single threaded app on multiple
CPUs is one of timing. There's no deterministic way to split up the
instructions so that one CPU isn't waiting for the results of an
instruction that another CPU is processing. That's one of the reasons that
the MAME team doesn't support multiple CPUs and doesn't see multi-core
processors as being that much of an advantage.

I guess the interesting thing would be whether it's truly 3 PPCs, or a PPC
with 3 cores on it. I'm thinking the latter, which might make the
emulation of the original a bit more feasible. AFAIK, multi-core CPUs
share a level 4 cache that acts as an internal bus on the chip.

--
Pope GregoryD

Founder of Opus Hogan, Patriarch of the West Coast, Vicarius Fili
Hulkster, Successor of the Mouth, Primate and Archbishop of Venice Beach

Add comment
GM Collins 10 May 2005 20:07:49 permanent link ]
 
I have to think so too. It's based on the same architecture. I mean, > there's> nothing radically different about the underlying architecture. It's not > like what Sony is doing with the PS3, going from one chip design to > another. I just see it as a "second generation" Xbox with features that > the first one couldn't do at the time (wireless, bigger HD, mm features, > HD, etc).>
What, technically, has anyone seen out there that would even *hint* at it > being a departure in architecture?

The major hardware difference is that they are going with the IBM PowerPC
based CPU on the 360, and the Xbox had good old Intel. I don't know enough
about the IBM CPU's to know what kind of difference that would make,
however.


Add comment
Krusty 10 May 2005 20:18:58 permanent link ]
 "GM Collins" <gcollins@*SPAM*hfc­c.net**> wrote> The major hardware difference is that they are going with the IBM PowerPC > based CPU on the 360, and the Xbox had good old Intel. I don't know enough > about the IBM CPU's to know what kind of difference that would make, > however.

I didn't know that.

Okay, that's a huge difference, and I'd be hard pressed to see that being
backwards compatible. Seriously. PowerPC is a true risc based processor, and
the G4/G5s coming out of IBM now are operating on a 128 bit data bus,
there's nothing at Intel that comes close to that. They're a combination of
CISC with a little "pseudo RISC" thrown in.

Those games have been compiled to the intel architecture, and now they're on
a whole new chip.

This is *exactly* like trying to play a PC game on a Macintosh. Going from
"Battlefield 1942" which was compiled to run on Intel and putting it in your
Mac and wondering why it won't play.


Add comment
ViNNY 10 May 2005 21:53:23 permanent link ]
 Krusty wrote:> "GM Collins" <gcollins@*SPAM*hfc­c.net**> wrote>
The major hardware difference is that they are going with the IBM PowerPC >>based CPU on the 360, and the Xbox had good old Intel. I don't know enough >>about the IBM CPU's to know what kind of difference that would make, >>however.>
I didn't know that.>
Okay, that's a huge difference, and I'd be hard pressed to see that being > backwards compatible. Seriously. PowerPC is a true risc based processor, and > the G4/G5s coming out of IBM now are operating on a 128 bit data bus, > there's nothing at Intel that comes close to that. They're a combination of > CISC with a little "pseudo RISC" thrown in.>
Those games have been compiled to the intel architecture, and now they're on > a whole new chip.>
This is *exactly* like trying to play a PC game on a Macintosh. Going from > "Battlefield 1942" which was compiled to run on Intel and putting it in your > Mac and wondering why it won't play.

But with *three* PowerPC chips running at 3.2Ghz, surely they can manage
to emulate x86 at 733Mhz...

-Vin
Add comment
Krusty 10 May 2005 22:05:13 permanent link ]
 "ViNNY" <a.vincent@SPAMANDD­IEclara.co.uk> wrote> But with *three* PowerPC chips running at 3.2Ghz, surely they can manage > to emulate x86 at 733Mhz...

So would the older games run under emulation then? Is that the word?


Add comment
ViNNY 11 May 2005 00:17:09 permanent link ]
 Krusty wrote:> "ViNNY" <a.vincent@SPAMANDD­IEclara.co.uk> wrote>
But with *three* PowerPC chips running at 3.2Ghz, surely they can manage >>to emulate x86 at 733Mhz...>
So would the older games run under emulation then? Is that the word?

That was where the debate you're having right now left off last time I
saw it anywhere. First I read they wouldn't, then they would, then "I
dunno".

-Vin
Add comment
Krusty 11 May 2005 00:19:56 permanent link ]
 
"ViNNY" <a.vincent@SPAMANDD­IEclara.co.uk> wrote...> Krusty wrote:>> "ViNNY" <a.vincent@SPAMANDD­IEclara.co.uk> wrote>>
But with *three* PowerPC chips running at 3.2Ghz, surely they can manage >>>to emulate x86 at 733Mhz...>>
So would the older games run under emulation then? Is that the word?>
That was where the debate you're having right now left off last time I saw > it anywhere. First I read they wouldn't, then they would, then "I dunno".

Interesting.


Add comment
Pope GregoryD 11 May 2005 00:38:21 permanent link ]
 Krusty knelt and kissed my pinky ring before declaring:
"Pope GregoryD" <hagar@hotmail.com>­ wrote>> Probably not. Not saying it can't be done, but it's pretty unlikely.>> The>> problem you get when you try to emulate a single threaded app on multiple>> CPUs is one of timing. There's no deterministic way to split up the>> instructions so that one CPU isn't waiting for the results of an>> instruction that another CPU is processing. That's one of the reasons>> that>> the MAME team doesn't support multiple CPUs and doesn't see multi-core>> processors as being that much of an advantage.>>
I guess the interesting thing would be whether it's truly 3 PPCs, or a>> PPC>> with 3 cores on it. I'm thinking the latter, which might make the>> emulation of the original a bit more feasible. AFAIK, multi-core CPUs>> share a level 4 cache that acts as an internal bus on the chip.>
Waitaminute...is the new Xbox advertising that it has *3* PPCs?>
Where are links to the hardcore specs? Are there any yet? I'm with you,> there's no way they're putting 3 PPCs on there. It *has* to be 3 cores on> one PPC. Right? I mean, it's gotta cost *under* $300 $350...doesn't it?>
I'll go as high as $300 - $350 on the first day of launch, otherwise I'll> just wait until the first price drop. There's no way I could justify> spending upwards of $400 on an xbox 360 when I've got three perfectly good> systems working right now.>
What was the launch price of Xbox originally? The only systems I got on> launch day were the GameCube and the PS2. It was a while before I wound up> getting an Xbox, so they had already done the first or second round of> price drops.>
I'm planning on getting the 360 on launch day, but if they're pricing this> one out of range of a good, first day purchase price, I'll wait a while.

Thinking about it a bit more, what they likely mean is that they have 3
processors (CPU, GPU, and a special vector processor) all running at
3.2Ghz. Sony's Cell chip supposedly consists of a +4Ghz control processor
controlling 8 3.2Ghz parallel processors.

None of it means squat until we see the games and hear from the developers
about what the systems can actually do.

--
Pope GregoryD

Founder of Opus Hogan, Patriarch of the West Coast, Vicarius Fili
Hulkster, Successor of the Mouth, Primate and Archbishop of Venice Beach

Add comment
ViNNY 11 May 2005 00:50:23 permanent link ]
 Krusty wrote:> "ViNNY" <a.vincent@SPAMANDD­IEclara.co.uk> wrote...>
Krusty wrote:>>
"ViNNY" <a.vincent@SPAMANDD­IEclara.co.uk> wrote>>>
But with *three* PowerPC chips running at 3.2Ghz, surely they can manage >>>>to emulate x86 at 733Mhz...>>>
So would the older games run under emulation then? Is that the word?>>
That was where the debate you're having right now left off last time I saw >>it anywhere. First I read they wouldn't, then they would, then "I dunno".>
Interesting.

From Engadget:

So far one of the biggest unanswered questions about the Xbox 360 is
whether or not it’s going to be backwards compatible with games for the
original Xbox. Other the past year or so we’ve gotten plenty of
conflicting reports about backwards compatibility—itâ­€™s no secret that
there are some emulation “issues” involved—but the Inq seems to think
that Microsoft might have figured this one out. Their evidence? It’s not
exactly much to go on, so don’t come crying to us when the Xbox 360
comes out and you can’t play your copy of Halo 2 on it, but they’re
pointing to an online questionaire about Xbox Live which mentions that:

Xbox Live is an online gaming service that works across both the
current Xbox system and the future Xbox 2. You will be able to play
online and compete against others across both consoles. If you are
playing an Xbox game on Live you will be able to compete against people
playing that same game on Xbox 2.

The catch is that this doesn’t necessarily imply backwards compatiblity.
It’s possible that this could mean that they’re simply going to
rerelease Xbox 360 versions of current Xbox titles, sort of like how
everyone bought Led Zeppelin IV all over again when it came out on CD.
But to be honest, we won’t know for sure until the reveal all the gory
details for the new console next month.

Article dated 27 April this year.

-Vin
Add comment
Krusty 11 May 2005 01:18:29 permanent link ]
 "Pope GregoryD" <hagar@hotmail.com>­ wrote> Probably not. Not saying it can't be done, but it's pretty unlikely. > The> problem you get when you try to emulate a single threaded app on multiple> CPUs is one of timing. There's no deterministic way to split up the> instructions so that one CPU isn't waiting for the results of an> instruction that another CPU is processing. That's one of the reasons > that> the MAME team doesn't support multiple CPUs and doesn't see multi-core> processors as being that much of an advantage.>
I guess the interesting thing would be whether it's truly 3 PPCs, or a PPC> with 3 cores on it. I'm thinking the latter, which might make the> emulation of the original a bit more feasible. AFAIK, multi-core CPUs> share a level 4 cache that acts as an internal bus on the chip.

Waitaminute...is the new Xbox advertising that it has *3* PPCs?

Where are links to the hardcore specs? Are there any yet? I'm with you,
there's no way they're putting 3 PPCs on there. It *has* to be 3 cores on
one PPC. Right? I mean, it's gotta cost *under* $300 $350...doesn't it?

I'll go as high as $300 - $350 on the first day of launch, otherwise I'll
just wait until the first price drop. There's no way I could justify
spending upwards of $400 on an xbox 360 when I've got three perfectly good
systems working right now.

What was the launch price of Xbox originally? The only systems I got on
launch day were the GameCube and the PS2. It was a while before I wound up
getting an Xbox, so they had already done the first or second round of price
drops.

I'm planning on getting the 360 on launch day, but if they're pricing this
one out of range of a good, first day purchase price, I'll wait a while.


Add comment
Krusty 11 May 2005 01:23:28 permanent link ]
 "ViNNY" <a.vincent@SPAMANDD­IEclara.co.uk> wrote> From Engadget:>
So far one of the biggest unanswered questions about the Xbox 360 is > whether or not it’s going to be backwards compatible with games for the > original Xbox. Other the past year or so we’ve gotten plenty of > conflicting reports about backwards compatibility—it’s no secret that > there are some emulation “issues” involved—but the Inq seems to think that > Microsoft might have figured this one out. Their evidence? It’s not > exactly much to go on, so don’t come crying to us when the Xbox 360 comes > out and you can’t play your copy of Halo 2 on it, but they’re pointing to > an online questionaire about Xbox Live which mentions that:>
Xbox Live is an online gaming service that works across both the > current Xbox system and the future Xbox 2. You will be able to play online > and compete against others across both consoles. If you are playing an > Xbox game on Live you will be able to compete against people playing that > same game on Xbox 2.>
The catch is that this doesn’t necessarily imply backwards compatiblity. > It’s possible that this could mean that they’re simply going to rerelease > Xbox 360 versions of current Xbox titles, sort of like how everyone bought > Led Zeppelin IV all over again when it came out on CD. But to be honest, > we won’t know for sure until the reveal all the gory details for the new > console next month.>
Article dated 27 April this year.

Okay, lemme add to that...

When I was testing Battlefield Modern Combat, we had to fill a few
questionnaires over the course of the test, and one of the questions
actually made mention of a version of Battlefield for Xbox, *AND* a version
of Battlefield for "Xbox2". So it *sounds* suspiciously like DICE is already
working on *two* versions of the same game, which might sort of tie into the
whole theory of "a version for Xbox Live for older Xboxes, and a version for
Xbox Live for Xbox 2".

You know...I had sort of *assumed* it would be backward compatible....but I
dunno now.

What are the rumors regarding PS2 and backwards compatibility? Are they even
entertaining the idea?


Add comment
ViNNY 11 May 2005 02:17:50 permanent link ]
 Krusty wrote:> "Pope GregoryD" <hagar@hotmail.com>­ wrote>
Probably not. Not saying it can't be done, but it's pretty unlikely. >>The>>problem you get when you try to emulate a single threaded app on multiple>>CPUs is one of timing. There's no deterministic way to split up the>>instructions so that one CPU isn't waiting for the results of an>>instruction that another CPU is processing. That's one of the reasons >>that>>the MAME team doesn't support multiple CPUs and doesn't see multi-core>>process­ors as being that much of an advantage.>>
I guess the interesting thing would be whether it's truly 3 PPCs, or a PPC>>with 3 cores on it. I'm thinking the latter, which might make the>>emulation of the original a bit more feasible. AFAIK, multi-core CPUs>>share a level 4 cache that acts as an internal bus on the chip.>
Waitaminute...is the new Xbox advertising that it has *3* PPCs?>
Where are links to the hardcore specs? Are there any yet? I'm with you, > there's no way they're putting 3 PPCs on there. It *has* to be 3 cores on > one PPC. Right? I mean, it's gotta cost *under* $300 $350...doesn't it?>
I'll go as high as $300 - $350 on the first day of launch, otherwise I'll > just wait until the first price drop. There's no way I could justify > spending upwards of $400 on an xbox 360 when I've got three perfectly good > systems working right now.>
What was the launch price of Xbox originally? The only systems I got on > launch day were the GameCube and the PS2. It was a while before I wound up > getting an Xbox, so they had already done the first or second round of price > drops.>
I'm planning on getting the 360 on launch day, but if they're pricing this > one out of range of a good, first day purchase price, I'll wait a while.

Last I heard you were looking at $299 no hard drive, $399 with a 20Gb.
I'm holding off until they've been stably modded... or at least until a
Microsoft equivalent of XBMC is stable, easy to use and works with
non-MS formats.

-Vin
Add comment
ViNNY 11 May 2005 03:54:36 permanent link ]
 Chad Bryant wrote:> "GM Collins" wrote:>
Krusty Notes:>>>1. White? Who wants to have a grungy white/dirt controller after>>>about a week?>
The *console* is white, not the controller, genius.

The controller was white in some of the pictures I saw, though it also
looks vaguely silver in some others.

-Vin
Add comment
Krusty 11 May 2005 05:12:56 permanent link ]
 ViNNY wrote:> Chad Bryant wrote:>
"GM Collins" wrote:>>
Krusty Notes:>>>> 1. White? Who wants to have a grungy white/dirt controller after>>>> about a week?>>
The *console* is white, not the controller, genius.>
The controller was white in some of the pictures I saw, though it also > looks vaguely silver in some others.

They're white in the pictures I've seen. I've not seen any silver
controllers.

http://engadget.com­/entry/1234000490042­605/

Those are shots taken from the *taping of the MTV show the debuts the
system on Thursday*...that's the system they're introducing on TV on
Thursday night. Cellphone snaps.

Derrr...
Add comment
Poot Rootbeer 11 May 2005 09:00:23 permanent link ]
 "Krusty" <rspwkrusty@yahoo.c­om> wrote:> 2. Wireless? Fucking finally! Try putting together a wireless> solution for Xbox now and having headset capability w/XBL...good> luck.

The question is... are they doing the smart thing and using Bluetooth
for all the peripherals (including the remote), or are we still stuck
with 30-year-old infrared technology? Or worse, cables that are just a
little too short to reach from the TV to the couch?
6. Kiss Sony goodbye, you won't see a PS3 until sometime in 2006

As sweet and shiny as the PSP is, I think it was a stupid move for Sony
to divert resources from home console development in order to challenge
Nintendo on the portable front. They gave Microsoft a golden
opportunity to catch up to and pass them, and it would appear that
that's what's about to happen.
The console's power button has "skins," customizable appearances> that can apparently be added by the user.

Which is retarded. Power buttons aren't for looking at.

-Poot
Add comment
Poot Rootbeer 11 May 2005 09:08:20 permanent link ]
 
So far one of the biggest unanswered questions about the Xbox 360> is whether or not it’s going to be backwards compatible with games> for the original Xbox. Other the past year or so we’ve gotten> plenty of conflicting reports about backwards compatibility—it’s>­ no secret that there are some emulation “issues” involved—but the> Inq seems to think that Microsoft might have figured this one out.

Another thing to consider: about 2 years ago, Microsoft acquired the
Virtual PC software product, which... dunt dunt dun... allows x86
Windows code to be run on a Mac's PowerPC processor via an emulation
layer.

No idea if the performance of an Xbox-customized version would be good
enough that an Xbox game would run well on the Xbox 360 hardware...

-Poot
360 < 3D0, ASCII-wise

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GYXU > Pro Wrestling > Xbox Details leak... 11 May 2005 04:20:16

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