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GYXU > Golf > Heavy Putters 1 May 2005 17:33:18

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Heavy Putters

Dave Lee 1 May 2005 03:59:55
 Part of my 2005 commitment to improving my putting was to absolutely pick
and stick with a single putting stroke. As part of the experimentation that
I was doing that led to a stroke selection, I added 70 grams to a
putterhead. Moving to a heavy putter was not really the intent here.

It was my expectation that a heavy putter would 'hit the ball harder' (for a
given putterhead speed at impact) than a lighter putter and would result in
more difficult speed control. But I didn't sense that that was the case. And
when I looked into the physics of the situation I found that, for the range
of weights of commonly used putterheads, the mass/weight of the putterhead
is not much of a variable in initial ball speed off the putter head.

So I ended up adding around 65 grams of weight to my putter. I just do not
see or feel a downside to having done this. And the putter is clearly more
stable on slight mis-hits plus I find that I am slightly less prone to
getting too wristy with all that mass.

However, this does not seem to be the norm on tour. At least most of the
name putters that I am aware of seem to weigh less than my putter does now
(approx. 600 grams).

Am I missing something here - or are they? Anyone else tried this?

Thanks.

dave


Add comment
Mark A 1 May 2005 04:06:26 permanent link ]
 "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC@ix.netco­m.RemovE.com> wrote in message
news:%ZUce.1714$V01­.1083@newsread1.news­.atl.earthlink.net..­.> Part of my 2005 commitment to improving my putting was to absolutely pick> and stick with a single putting stroke. As part of the experimentation > that> I was doing that led to a stroke selection, I added 70 grams to a> putterhead. Moving to a heavy putter was not really the intent here.>
It was my expectation that a heavy putter would 'hit the ball harder' (for > a> given putterhead speed at impact) than a lighter putter and would result > in> more difficult speed control. But I didn't sense that that was the case. > And> when I looked into the physics of the situation I found that, for the > range> of weights of commonly used putterheads, the mass/weight of the putterhead> is not much of a variable in initial ball speed off the putter head.>
So I ended up adding around 65 grams of weight to my putter. I just do not> see or feel a downside to having done this. And the putter is clearly more> stable on slight mis-hits plus I find that I am slightly less prone to> getting too wristy with all that mass.>
However, this does not seem to be the norm on tour. At least most of the> name putters that I am aware of seem to weigh less than my putter does now> (approx. 600 grams).>
Am I missing something here - or are they? Anyone else tried this?>
Thanks.>
dave>
Having a light putter does make a difference on very fast greens like they
play on Tour. Even if you play the same courses, the greens are usually
faster during tournament week then when you play them.

It seems to me that most people play golf because it is a recreation that
they enjoy and is an escape from the rest of their intellectual life. If you
have to look "into the physics" of your putter, you might enjoy golf a lot
more if you just go out and have fun.


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Dave Lee 1 May 2005 05:01:10 permanent link ]
 
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com­> wrote in message
news:I5GdndH7Z9gfgO­nfRVn-qw@comcast.com­...> "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC@ix.netco­m.RemovE.com> wrote in message> news:%ZUce.1714$V01­.1083@newsread1.news­.atl.earthlink.net..­.> > snip> It seems to me that most people play golf because it is a recreation that> they enjoy and is an escape from the rest of their intellectual life. If
have to look "into the physics" of your putter, you might enjoy golf a lot> more if you just go out and have fun.>

That stuff is actually fun to me - I'm not surprised that others would not
view it that way.

dave


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Ron Blanchard 1 May 2005 05:37:55 permanent link ]
 Dave Lee wrote:> Part of my 2005 commitment to improving my putting was to absolutely pick> and stick with a single putting stroke. As part of the experimentation that> I was doing that led to a stroke selection, I added 70 grams to a> putterhead. Moving to a heavy putter was not really the intent here.>
It was my expectation that a heavy putter would 'hit the ball harder' (for a> given putterhead speed at impact) than a lighter putter and would result in> more difficult speed control. But I didn't sense that that was the case. And> when I looked into the physics of the situation I found that, for the range> of weights of commonly used putterheads, the mass/weight of the putterhead> is not much of a variable in initial ball speed off the putter head.>
So I ended up adding around 65 grams of weight to my putter. I just do not> see or feel a downside to having done this. And the putter is clearly more> stable on slight mis-hits plus I find that I am slightly less prone to> getting too wristy with all that mass.>
However, this does not seem to be the norm on tour. At least most of the> name putters that I am aware of seem to weigh less than my putter does now> (approx. 600 grams).>
Am I missing something here - or are they? Anyone else tried this?>
Thanks.>
dave>

I added 110 grams to the grip end of my PING Anser F. I'm going to do
the same thing to a new 2-Ball and compare both over the next few weeks.

Similar concept as weighting the heads, but a different feel.

--
Ron

CHARTER MEMBER, Irrecoverable DarkSiders Association
email me at striker1 at csinet dot net
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Dave Lee 1 May 2005 05:46:18 permanent link ]
 
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com­> wrote in message
news:I5GdndH7Z9gfgO­nfRVn-qw@comcast.com­...> "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC@ix.netco­m.RemovE.com> wrote in message> news:%ZUce.1714$V01­.1083@newsread1.news­.atl.earthlink.net..­.> > snip> >
Having a light putter does make a difference on very fast greens like they> play on Tour. Even if you play the same courses, the greens are usually> faster during tournament week then when you play them.>
snip

But the point was that the difference is only a few percent (in initial
ballspeed) for a pretty substantial change (such as the one that I made) in
putterhead weight.

dave



Add comment
Mark A 1 May 2005 08:57:04 permanent link ]
 
Mark A wrote:>
I have no idea what you are talking about. Pros like to use faster> putters>> on fast greens, and some of them will use different putters for the> US Open>> or Masters depending on conditions.>
Not sure what a "faster putter" is. I'm pretty sure that the pros use> the same putter, or putters, at the differnet events. Rather they> increase/decrease the loft of the wand according to the greens on which> they will be playing on any given week. Not sure what types of greens> dictate whether you deloft or add loft, but that is something I am> always hearing about. If I were to venture a WAG, I would say that a> poa or Bermuda surface would lend themselves to delofting, on bent you> might want less loft. These are WAGs, so if someone knows, please> share...>
Sorry, meant to say:

"Pros like to use lighter putters on fast greens."


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Dave Lee 1 May 2005 17:33:18 permanent link ]
 
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com­> wrote in message
news:JvGdncRs1_XLqu­nfRVn-1w@comcast.com­...> "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC@ix.netco­m.RemovE.com> wrote in message
news:KxWce.2331> >
But the point was that the difference is only a few percent (in initial> > ballspeed) for a pretty substantial change (such as the one that I made)> > in putterhead weight.> >
dave> >
I have no idea what you are talking about. Pros like to use faster putters> on fast greens, and some of them will use different putters for the US
Open or Masters depending on conditions.>
snip

Take an example where a given 350 gram putterhead approaches the ball at
speed of 60 inches per second. It isn't unreasonable for the ball to leave
the putterhead with a speed of 95.5 inches per second (the main variable
being the COR of the putterface). Add 50 grams (which would be VERY
noticeable when lifted) to the putterhead and approach the ball with the
same speed as before and the ball would leave the putterhead at 96.9 inches
per second. It isn't much of a change, despite having increased the mass of
the putterhead by 15%.

I would maintain that, even for the pros, the feel of the heavier putter
would be a much bigger factor than the fact that it hits the ball about 1.5%
'harder'.

dave



Add comment
R&B 2 May 2005 04:54:54 permanent link ]
 "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC@ix.netco­m.RemovE.com> wrote ...> Part of my 2005 commitment to improving my putting was to absolutely pick> and stick with a single putting stroke. As part of the experimentation > that> I was doing that led to a stroke selection, I added 70 grams to a> putterhead. Moving to a heavy putter was not really the intent here.>
It was my expectation that a heavy putter would 'hit the ball harder' (for > a> given putterhead speed at impact) than a lighter putter and would result > in> more difficult speed control. But I didn't sense that that was the case. > And> when I looked into the physics of the situation I found that, for the > range> of weights of commonly used putterheads, the mass/weight of the putterhead> is not much of a variable in initial ball speed off the putter head.>
So I ended up adding around 65 grams of weight to my putter. I just do not> see or feel a downside to having done this. And the putter is clearly more> stable on slight mis-hits plus I find that I am slightly less prone to> getting too wristy with all that mass.>
However, this does not seem to be the norm on tour. At least most of the> name putters that I am aware of seem to weigh less than my putter does now> (approx. 600 grams).>
Am I missing something here - or are they? Anyone else tried this?>
Thanks.>
dave


Depends on what you call "heavy."

I tried some putters a few years ago that were so heavy, it took quite a bit
of effort just to initiate the backswing. They were heavy enough that they
required some real "lifting" just to get them off the ground and then
further effort to set them into motion. (The heavier something is, the more
energy is required to overcome its static state and set it into motion.)
This requisite "effort," it seemed to me, created a whole different kind of
variance in my stroke, and was something that was hard to calibrate.
Besides, given the fact that almost everyone who is an authority on such
things agrees that a good putting stroke maintains a fairly
low-to-the-ground stroke, this lifting seemed counter to what a good putting
stroke entails. Of course the designer was attempting to compensate for
another problem (aim) by making putters that the player could set on the
ground, then walk away from to view the line of their putt from behind the
ball to see where the putter was aimed. It was an interesting idea, if
somewhat on the side of "novelty," IMHO. Seldom do "novelty" ideas (in any
field) ever cross over into the mainstream.

But more importantly, I think the point that was lost on the designer was
that most good putters (I'm referrng to the player here, not the instrument)
prefer to use a very light grip on the putter (the instrument). His
heavier-than-heavy putter design forced a firmer grip than most good putters
(players) are accustomed to using. As a result, the solid "feel" he was
going for was mostly lost, because with a firmer grip, the putter loses feel
to players who prefer a light grip. Certainly most pros use a very light
grip on their putter. Not surprisingly, his putter never caught on with
scratch golfers. At least not in great numbers. I never saw a single TOUR
pro use it, either in practice or in competition.

Several years ago Ping came with nickel putters. At first, I loved them.
They were heavy, by putter standards. But they didn't catch on, and I think
the reason is because they forced a subtle change in grip pressure,
something no good putter (player) wants to do. Anyone who is a good putter
already isn't looking for a putter that forces him to change his stroke;
he's looking for a putter that is in HARMONY with his stroke. I think
that's true of all good players. The clubs they use should behave in
harmony with their swing, not change their swing. That was the fundamental
flaw in these super heavy putters, in my view.

I think there's a range within which various putter weights need to be, and
indeed, I think most manufacturers have already identified what that range
is. Certainly there will be some players who like weights that fall outside
those extremes, but the vast majority will prefer weights that fall within
that spectrum. If that weren't the case, then some big company would have
come with the Heavy Harry Putter or some such. But none have. Given that
they're always trying to expand their share of the market, I'm sure they've
tested such concepts and found that either (a.) there's no improvement in
performance, or (b) no market for it.

My 2-cents.

Randy


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Fred Taylor 3 May 2005 01:50:46 permanent link ]
 
"dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku­.edu> wrote in message
news:1115056664.535­928.151400@z14g2000c­wz.googlegroups.com.­..> ***>
I tried some putters a few years ago that were so heavy, it took quite> a bit> of effort just to initiate the backswing. They were heavy enough that> they> required some real "lifting" just to get them off the ground and then> further effort to set them into motion. (The heavier something is, the> more> energy is required to overcome its static state and set it into> motion.)> This requisite "effort," it seemed to me, created a whole different> kind of> variance in my stroke, and was something that was hard to calibrate.> ***>
That sums up perfectly how I felt about the 20 ball putter I tried....> but most putters are going to feel heavy to me because of the> ultra-light I've used for nearly 20 years.

That's the problem right there. A 20-ball putter would HAVE to be heaviest
putter ever made. :)­


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Fred Taylor 3 May 2005 02:05:34 permanent link ]
 
"dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku­.edu> wrote in message
news:1115056511.517­228.26470@g14g2000cw­a.googlegroups.com..­.> ***> It was my expectation that a heavy putter would 'hit the ball harder'> (for a> given putterhead speed at impact) than a lighter putter and would> result in> more difficult speed control.> ***> In general (and in a small range) that may be true... but I have a> couple of counter examples...>
First I'm usde to a very light putter. A copy of the Response from> MacGreggor. It weighs nearly nothing despite the fact that I have added> a little weight to it to balance it. If I had a 60 foot putt with this> putter on a medium speed green, I'd have to take about a 1/2 swing just> to get it there. :)­

What is a 1/2 swing? 1/2 the distance of a full takeaway? Or 1/2 the power
of a regular swing? With a light putter, I would imagine your swing would
have to vary more on arm strength rather than on simply the distance of the
backswing.
I purchased maybe the heaviest putter made... Momentus Trainer. If I> try to just let this heavy putter do the work, I very often don't swing> it nearly hard enough and leave it short (because it takes so much> effort to get it to move).

Isn't it just a matter of bringing the clubhead back far enough? If you use
a pendulum swing, you're really just "guiding" the clubhead and rather than
using arm strength to "power" the swing. Granted, on the takeaway, you
obviously are using arm strength.
I also tried the 2-ball putters which to me felt very heavy compared to> my norm. I felt like it took a lot more effort to set the 2-ball putter> in motion and again the percieved effort caused me to be short often.>
I'd probably adjust eventully, but whose to say that the adjustment> would not bring with it distance control problems? :)­

I think with a heavy putter, you're almost forced to use gravity to
accelerate the clubhead during the follow-through. Consciously using the
strength of your arms to power the clubhead just right would not only get
you really tired throughout the round, it would introduce a lot of
inconsistencies, I would think.


Add comment
Dave Lee 3 May 2005 03:13:33 permanent link ]
 
"Fred Taylor" <freddyt@yahoo.com>­ wrote in message
news:Ouxde.11965$J1­2.2195@newssvr14.new­s.prodigy.com...>
snip> I think with a heavy putter, you're almost forced to use gravity to> accelerate the clubhead during the follow-through. Consciously using the> strength of your arms to power the clubhead just right would not only get> you really tired throughout the round, it would introduce a lot of> inconsistencies, I would think.>

Thought I'd add a bit more information here about my experiences. While I
added a VERY noticeable amount of weight to my putterhead (65 grams), I
believe that the resulting putter was still lighter than some of those being
discussed - certainly lighter than a Momentus putter, although if a Momentus
putter is weighted like the Momentus iron that I own (more a heavy shaft
than a heavy head), then maybe they are closer to equivalent than I think.

I started into this while trying out a gravity driven putting stroke
(http://www.putting­zone.com ). The weight was just for drill purposes, but I
ended up liking it enough to keep it. While the sensation of EXACTLY
following the pendulum acceleration of a putter and the feel of the
putterhead hitting the ball while kind of suspended is very seductive, I
ultimately abandoned this very strict adherence to a gravity driven stroke -
it tended to encourage midstroke compensations that were not helpful.
However in the several weeks that I spent trying this out, two things
happened.

1) My natural putting tempo is now much slower than before (very close to a
gravity only stroke, but there is no conscious attempt to make it exact).

2) I am much more conscious of the length of my backswing than I am in how
'hard' I hit the ball when putting. In fact backswing length is now my key
'distance calibrator', which makes sense if all of your putts use the same
tempo. And as I said earlier my 65 gram clump of lead once came off in the
middle of a round, and it didn't turn my putting touch inside-out for the
remaining 16
holes, although my net putting was around 0.8 strokes higher than my
average.

FWIW.

dave



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GYXU > Golf > Heavy Putters 1 May 2005 17:33:18

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