Can someone who can strike accurately off the fairway with 3W, 5W and 7W clubs please comment on how and where to position the ball. For example, would you place it identically for a 5W as you would a 3I, 5I or 7I. Thanks. George
Thanks. I didn't realize that you should be taking divots with fairway woods.
"Santa Cruz Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1110387272.442517.185140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>
GFrenette wrote:> > Can someone who can strike accurately off the fairway with 3W, 5W and> 7W> > clubs please comment on how and where to position the ball. For> example,> > would you place it identically for a 5W as you would a 3I, 5I or 7I.> > Thanks.> > George>
Ball position is a "fundamental", but there are a lot of different> ways that work, never-the-less. A lot depends on what kind of swing> you have, and how well you shift your weight. In the system I> prefer, the fairway woods are played with the ball just inside> the left heel; the driver a little farther forward; the irons> farther back; wedges even farther back - but the total variance> is small, only 2-3 ball widths. The stance width also varies> for the different clubs, so the ball position appears to vary> a lot more than it actually does.>
The bottom line, though, is you have to hit the ball before you> hit the ground. Take a practice swing and find out where your> divot starts. Position the ball right at that point. If> that means putting the ball in the middle of your stance,> so be it, for that day, but make an appointment with a pro> because you need to fix something.>
On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:44:48 -0500, "GFrenette" <remove-gfrenette@videotron.ca> wrote:
Thanks. I didn't realize that you should be taking divots with fairway>woods.>
"Santa Cruz Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message>news:1110387272.442517.185140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>>
GFrenette wrote:>> > Can someone who can strike accurately off the fairway with 3W, 5W and>> 7W>> > clubs please comment on how and where to position the ball. For>> example,>> > would you place it identically for a 5W as you would a 3I, 5I or 7I.>> > Thanks.>> > George>>
Ball position is a "fundamental", but there are a lot of different>> ways that work, never-the-less. A lot depends on what kind of swing>> you have, and how well you shift your weight. In the system I>> prefer, the fairway woods are played with the ball just inside>> the left heel; the driver a little farther forward; the irons>> farther back; wedges even farther back - but the total variance>> is small, only 2-3 ball widths. The stance width also varies>> for the different clubs, so the ball position appears to vary>> a lot more than it actually does.>>
The bottom line, though, is you have to hit the ball before you>> hit the ground. Take a practice swing and find out where your>> divot starts. Position the ball right at that point. If>> that means putting the ball in the middle of your stance,>> so be it, for that day, but make an appointment with a pro>> because you need to fix something.
Great post! You should place the ball where your club first strikes the grass in your practice swing. I have my wife do that and she makes crisp contact--and advances the ball toward the hole. Good enough for a beginner--and very pragmatic. Whatever works.
However, when you start adding a transition weight shift to your swing, moving your weight to your front leg in advance of your swing-- you will need to play the ball forward--because that is where your club will first strike the ground. When we move forward the bottom of our swing arc moves with us.
Can someone who can strike accurately off the fairway with 3W, 5W and 7W> clubs please comment on how and where to position the ball. For example,> would you place it identically for a 5W as you would a 3I, 5I or 7I.
As far as how far away the ball should be from you, the easiest way of putting it, you shouldn't feel like you're reaching or feel like you're crowded. This is one of those things that a trained set of eyes really helps with. Ball position, alignment and posture, these are things that a pro can pick up on quickly and fix. Position also varies a little given your swing -- another reason why this issue might be best dealt with by a pro.
Keep in mind woods and long irons are tough to hit. The lie angle and club length combined put you in a situation where you need a good lie.
In terms of where the ball is front or back, I think you will find two schools of thought. One says the ball stays in line with about an inch inside the left heel and your right foot moves closer to the left as the clubs get shorter. Another idea is that rather than the foot moving, the ball moves back slightly with each club -- hence position relative to both feet change. Driver, the ball may be off the left foot. Wedge may be close to the middle of the stance. For your woods, you're going to be looking at somewhere well forward of middle likely.
The overall goal is you want the ball to be slightly before where the bottom of your swing is going to be (exception may be the driver where we may want it even slightly ahead of bottom). Golfers with an aggressive swing and a lot of lateral motion tend to prefer the ball a little forward relative to someone with a more sedate swing. This is why you might not find an absolute truth in terms of ball position.
What complicates things is that, however good your swing, you'll always compensate and get your club to the ball wherever you put it. That can mean swaying forward or staying back.
I think he was talking more about swings in general (and including iron swings) than recommending you take a big divot with a fairway wood. Some folks might take a thin divot, but it typically shouldn't be too much.
The main point though is that ball position is dependant on your swing. Someone who's making a good weight shift will need to play the ball a little more forward than someone who's more static (or reverse pivoting). In general, a fairway wood will be played a little more forward (like an inch or two) than a long/mid iron. But exactly where that will be depends on where the bottom of your swing is.
Rob
GFrenette wrote:> Thanks. I didn't realize that you should be taking divots with fairway> woods.>
"Santa Cruz Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message> news:1110387272.442517.185140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>
GFrenette wrote:>>
Can someone who can strike accurately off the fairway with 3W, 5W and>>
clubs please comment on how and where to position the ball. For>>
example,>>
would you place it identically for a 5W as you would a 3I, 5I or 7I.>>>Thanks.>>>George>>
Ball position is a "fundamental", but there are a lot of different>>ways that work, never-the-less. A lot depends on what kind of swing>>you have, and how well you shift your weight. In the system I>>prefer, the fairway woods are played with the ball just inside>>the left heel; the driver a little farther forward; the irons>>farther back; wedges even farther back - but the total variance>>is small, only 2-3 ball widths. The stance width also varies>>for the different clubs, so the ball position appears to vary>>a lot more than it actually does.>>
The bottom line, though, is you have to hit the ball before you>>hit the ground. Take a practice swing and find out where your>>divot starts. Position the ball right at that point. If>>that means putting the ball in the middle of your stance,>>so be it, for that day, but make an appointment with a pro>>because you need to fix something.>>
Santa Cruz Bill 9 March 2005 22:36:21 [ permanent link ]
GFrenette wrote:> Thanks. I didn't realize that you should be taking divots with fairway> woods.
No, you shouldn't. That's why you play the ball forward, so that it sweeps the ball. However, it is even worse if you hit fat due to a bad swing. So adjust for the reality of your swing on that day, and later fix the problem with your pro.
"Santa Cruz Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message> news:1110387272.442517.185140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...> >
GFrenette wrote:> > > Can someone who can strike accurately off the fairway with 3W, 5W
clubs please comment on how and where to position the ball. For> > example,> > > would you place it identically for a 5W as you would a 3I, 5I or
7I.> > > Thanks.> > > George> >
Ball position is a "fundamental", but there are a lot of different> > ways that work, never-the-less. A lot depends on what kind of
swing> > you have, and how well you shift your weight. In the system I> > prefer, the fairway woods are played with the ball just inside> > the left heel; the driver a little farther forward; the irons> > farther back; wedges even farther back - but the total variance> > is small, only 2-3 ball widths. The stance width also varies> > for the different clubs, so the ball position appears to vary> > a lot more than it actually does.> >
The bottom line, though, is you have to hit the ball before you> > hit the ground. Take a practice swing and find out where your> > divot starts. Position the ball right at that point. If> > that means putting the ball in the middle of your stance,> > so be it, for that day, but make an appointment with a pro> > because you need to fix something.> >
GFrenette wrote:> Can someone who can strike accurately off the fairway with 3W, 5W and 7W> clubs please comment on how and where to position the ball. For example,> would you place it identically for a 5W as you would a 3I, 5I or 7I.> Thanks.> George>
Pretty good advice give by all the other posters. Basically all are saying to set up on a similar lie, take a practice swing and note where the club first brushes the grass. Put the ball there. But where is "there"? Most folks use the position of their feet.
My pro taught me to notice where I brushed the grass relative to the center of my sternum. The assumption here is that when you did the practice swing you had your feet set comfortably for you on that day and you did it unconsciously. Now you set up to the ball, allowing it line up on your chest at the spot that you found with your practice swing, using that same unconscious address.
The point is that you are not thinking about your feet or having address positions checks going on in your head, you are letting your natural swing have a chance to happen. Whether it is a good swing or not is not germane. You need to be using what ever you brought to the course that day. Fixing things or thinking about more than one thing during the setup / swing is for the range, not the fairway.
GFrenette wrote:> Can someone who can strike accurately off the fairway with 3W, 5W and 7W> clubs please comment on how and where to position the ball. For example,> would you place it identically for a 5W as you would a 3I, 5I or 7I.> Thanks.> George>
Here's as simple as it gets for you high to mid hCappers. Also make a full turn with only a 3/4 backswing. >
Tee up a few balls with each club at play with the position until you absolutely pure them. Keep track of where that point is. Fairway position should be about 1" back from there in your stance. Run this check on the range before you tee off every time you play and you'll be fine.
"JoePete" <joepete@notmydomain.com> wrote in message news:SVGXd.54312$s16.29066@trndny02...> GFrenette wrote:>
Can someone who can strike accurately off the fairway with 3W, 5W and 7W>> clubs please comment on how and where to position the ball. For example,>> would you place it identically for a 5W as you would a 3I, 5I or 7I.>
As far as how far away the ball should be from you, the easiest way of > putting it, you shouldn't feel like you're reaching or feel like you're > crowded.
My pro years ago said that your left hand (if you're hitting right handed) should be 5 fingers away from your thighs.
--Tom
This is one of those things that a trained set of eyes really helps with. > Ball position, alignment and posture, these are things that a pro can pick > up on quickly and fix. Position also varies a little given your swing -- > another reason why this issue might be best dealt with by a pro.>
Keep in mind woods and long irons are tough to hit. The lie angle and club > length combined put you in a situation where you need a good lie.>
In terms of where the ball is front or back, I think you will find two > schools of thought. One says the ball stays in line with about an inch > inside the left heel and your right foot moves closer to the left as the > clubs get shorter. Another idea is that rather than the foot moving, the > ball moves back slightly with each club -- hence position relative to both > feet change. Driver, the ball may be off the left foot. Wedge may be close > to the middle of the stance. For your woods, you're going to be looking at > somewhere well forward of middle likely.>
The overall goal is you want the ball to be slightly before where the > bottom of your swing is going to be (exception may be the driver where we > may want it even slightly ahead of bottom). Golfers with an aggressive > swing and a lot of lateral motion tend to prefer the ball a little forward > relative to someone with a more sedate swing. This is why you might not > find an absolute truth in terms of ball position.>
On 9-Mar-2005, Six Iron <imnotfiveiron@webtv.net> wrote:
Here's as simple as it gets for you high to mid hCappers. Also make a> full turn with only a 3/4 backswing. >>
Tee up a few balls with each club at play with the position until you> absolutely pure them. Keep track of where that point is. Fairway> position should be about 1" back from there in your stance. Run this> check on the range before you tee off every time you play and you'll be> fine.
Unfortunately, high handicappers are often not consistent enough to count on this. One swing, the ball would be square at one spot, and the next swing it needs to be a couple of inches over. 8^)
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings with the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low point of your swing with that particular club.
On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu> wrote:
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings with>the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low>point of your swing with that particular club.
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club first contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea on the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it in the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun and is not loath to play golf again.
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up off their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make a transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it is far better to just play it back and advance the ball.
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu> wrote:>
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings with> >the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low> >point of your swing with that particular club.>
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club first> contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea on> the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it in> the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun and> is not loath to play golf again.>
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up off> their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make a> transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the> downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it is> far better to just play it back and advance the ball.>
larry
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where your head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord and I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.
Perfect Impact 11 March 2005 01:40:23 [ permanent link ]
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...>
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message> news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...>> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu> wrote:>>
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings with>> >the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low>> >point of your swing with that particular club.>>
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club first>> contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea on>> the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it in>> the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun and>> is not loath to play golf again.>>
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up off>> their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make a>> transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the>> downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it is>> far better to just play it back and advance the ball.>>
larry>
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where your> head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord > and> I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.>
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and since the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso is pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.
Do this: stand with all your weight on your right foot and make some easy swings. Notice how far back the club bottoms out. Now change to an extreme of all the weight on the left foot: do the same and note how far forward the club bottoms out.
Your head will pretty much go where you stand your weight.
FWIW, Gary is probably one of the more knowledgeable professionals who talks to us on TV - I have more respect for him than anyone on TGC staff and many of those they drag in to "instruct."
On 10-Mar-2005, "the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where your> head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord and> I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.
Not very useful for hackers who have their heads in the wrong place.
"Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:K33Yd.22477$6g7.17164@bignews1.bellsouth.net...>
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message> news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...> >
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message> > news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...> >> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu> wrote:> >>
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings with> >> >the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low> >> >point of your swing with that particular club.> >>
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club first> >> contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea on> >> the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it in> >> the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun and> >> is not loath to play golf again.> >>
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up off> >> their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make a> >> transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the> >> downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it is> >> far better to just play it back and advance the ball.> >>
larry> >
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where your> > head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord> > and> > I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.> >
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and since
head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso is pretty> much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.>
Do this: stand with all your weight on your right foot and make some easy> swings. Notice how far back the club bottoms out. Now change to an
extreme> of all the weight on the left foot: do the same and note how far forward
club bottoms out.>
Your head will pretty much go where you stand your weight.>
FWIW, Gary is probably one of the more knowledgeable professionals who
talks> to us on TV - I have more respect for him than anyone on TGC staff and many> of those they drag in to "instruct."
I am a big fan of McCords also. It is hard to get a read on when he is serious and when he is joking. I did not want to pass off the information as fact lest the usual suspects start treating me like they do you and larry.
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest> point of the swing is where your head is.> I don't know how much faith to put in> advice from Gary McCord and I don't> think I ever heard anyone else mention> this.
George Hibbard covers this in his response, so I won't go into detail here. But for McCord's take on it, check out Chapter 7 of his "Golf for Dummies". Probably available at your local library, if you're too vain to buy it.
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:13:44 -0600, "the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message>news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...>> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu> wrote:>>
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings with>> >the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low>> >point of your swing with that particular club.>>
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club first>> contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea on>> the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it in>> the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun and>> is not loath to play golf again.>>
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up off>> their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make a>> transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the>> downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it is>> far better to just play it back and advance the ball.>>
larry>
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where your>head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord and>I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.
He may be right. Worth checking. I certainly respect Mr. McCord (His "home course" is near here, a little track called "Vista Valley.") He is pretty famous there, ha.
"Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:K33Yd.22477$6g7.17164@bignews1.bellsouth.net...>
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message > news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...>>
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message>> news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...>>> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu> wrote:>>>
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings with>>> >the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low>>> >point of your swing with that particular club.>>>
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club first>>> contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea on>>> the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it in>>> the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun and>>> is not loath to play golf again.>>>
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up off>>> their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make a>>> transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the>>> downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it is>>> far better to just play it back and advance the ball.>>>
larry>>
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where your>> head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord >> and>> I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.>>
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and since > the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso is > pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.
Santa Cruz Bill 11 March 2005 04:53:23 [ permanent link ]
Glfnaz wrote:> "Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message> news:K33Yd.22477$6g7.17164@bignews1.bellsouth.net...> >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message> > news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...> >>
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message> >> news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...> >>> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu>
wrote:> >>>
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings
with> >>> >the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low> >>> >point of your swing with that particular club.> >>>
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club
first> >>> contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea
the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it
the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun
is not loath to play golf again.> >>>
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up
their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make
transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the> >>> downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it
far better to just play it back and advance the ball.> >>>
larry> >>
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is
where your> >> head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord> >> and> >> I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.> >>
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and
since> > the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso
pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.>
The head is always behind low point of the swing.
Yeah, the head should be behind the ball at impact (at least every pro's head is), and the low point had better be on the other side of the ball or you will be hitting a lot of fat shots.
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message news:djl131h03bcts4i1h43oitlc9pledf2g60@4ax.com...> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:13:44 -0600, "the Moderator"> <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:>
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message>>news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...>>> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu> wrote:>>>
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings with>>> >the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low>>> >point of your swing with that particular club.>>>
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club first>>> contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea on>>> the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it in>>> the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun and>>> is not loath to play golf again.>>>
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up off>>> their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make a>>> transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the>>> downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it is>>> far better to just play it back and advance the ball.>>>
larry>>
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where your>>head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord >>and>>I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.>
He may be right. Worth checking. I certainly respect Mr. McCord (His> "home course" is near here, a little track called "Vista Valley.") He> is pretty famous there, ha.>
Larry
Thats funny, I see him at the market here in AZ all the time. He also teaches up the street from me a couple miles. Where his school is. And his name is associated with the school.
"Santa Cruz Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1110502403.209733.75860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...>
Glfnaz wrote:>> "Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message>> news:K33Yd.22477$6g7.17164@bignews1.bellsouth.net...>> >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message>> > news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...>> >>
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message>> >> news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...>> >>> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu>> wrote:>> >>>
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings> with>> >>> >the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at> the low>> >>> >point of your swing with that particular club.>> >>>
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club> first>> >>> contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea> on>> >>> the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it> in>> >>> the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun> and>> >>> is not loath to play golf again.>> >>>
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up> off>> >>> their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make> a>> >>> transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the>> >>> downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it> is>> >>> far better to just play it back and advance the ball.>> >>>
larry>> >>
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is> where your>> >> head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary> McCord>> >> and>> >> I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.>> >>
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and> since>> > the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso> is>> > pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.>>
The head is always behind low point of the swing.>
Yeah, the head should be behind the ball at impact (at least> every pro's head is), and the low point had better be on the> other side of the ball or you will be hitting a lot of fat> shots.>
Perfect Impact 11 March 2005 05:37:22 [ permanent link ]
"Santa Cruz Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1110502403.209733.75860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...>
Glfnaz wrote:>> "Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message>> news:K33Yd.22477$6g7.17164@bignews1.bellsouth.net...>> >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message>> > news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...>> >>
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message>> >> news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...>> >>> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu>> wrote:
snip>> >
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and> since>> > the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso> is>> > pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.>>
The head is always behind low point of the swing.>
Yeah, the head should be behind the ball at impact (at least> every pro's head is), and the low point had better be on the> other side of the ball or you will be hitting a lot of fat> shots.
Actually, Gary's comment needs to be qualified, in keeping with this comment here, in that the WEIGHT will be more left than the head in a good swing - so the head is not actually where you will find low point. The leftward thrust of the hips moves the lower part of the spine and most of the body mass to the left of ball position, with the possible exception of when driving off of a tee...
But where the weight is, that is where you find the club bottomming out. The center of mass of a human body is not at the neck or head...it is more midbody, obviously. So the tilted spine moves the weight forward but not the head.
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:39:51 -0700, "Glfnaz" <glfnaz@qwesttrash.net> wrote:
"Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message >news:K33Yd.22477$6g7.17164@bignews1.bellsouth.net...>>
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message >> news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...>>>
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message>>> news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...>>>> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu> wrote:>>>>
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings with>>>> >the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low>>>> >point of your swing with that particular club.>>>>
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club first>>>> contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea on>>>> the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it in>>>> the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun and>>>> is not loath to play golf again.>>>>
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up off>>>> their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make a>>>> transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the>>>> downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it is>>>> far better to just play it back and advance the ball.>>>>
larry>>>
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where your>>> head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord >>> and>>> I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.>>>
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and since >> the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso is >> pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.>
The head is always behind low point of the swing.
I'm going with you on this one, Glfnaz. The head is a bit behind the low point. Not a lot. I think the low point would be just a bit forward of the left cheek or under the left chest, depending on the player's arc and flexibility and the length of the club. The reason is that the shift and rotation of the hips and the weight transfer toward the target moves the center of the torso slightly out from under the head, toward the direction of the shot. The head and upper body then release forward after the ball is gone to create a balanced finish over the front foot.
"Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:sB6Yd.34090$%Y4.18284@bignews6.bellsouth.net...>
"Santa Cruz Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:1110502403.209733.75860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...>>
Glfnaz wrote:>>> "Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message>>> news:K33Yd.22477$6g7.17164@bignews1.bellsouth.net...>>> >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message>>> > news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...>>> >>
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message>>> >> news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...>>> >>> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu>>> wrote:> snip>>> >
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and>> since>>> > the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso>> is>>> > pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.>>>
The head is always behind low point of the swing.>>
Yeah, the head should be behind the ball at impact (at least>> every pro's head is), and the low point had better be on the>> other side of the ball or you will be hitting a lot of fat>> shots.>
Actually, Gary's comment needs to be qualified, in keeping with this > comment here, in that the WEIGHT will be more left than the head in a good > swing - so the head is not actually where you will find low point. The > leftward thrust of the hips moves the lower part of the spine and most of > the body mass to the left of ball position, with the possible exception of > when driving off of a tee...>
But where the weight is, that is where you find the club bottomming out. > The center of mass of a human body is not at the neck or head...it is more > midbody, obviously. So the tilted spine moves the weight forward but not > the head.
Funny I thought you said--
" The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and> since>> > the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso> is>> > pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him."
I'd say that Faldo's weight is not under his head in this pic, as the ball was placed off his left heel. This further proves that the left ear is above the left hip, as reported in Perfect Impact. http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/88672/1/3180213
"MacHamish" <rjimeson1@comcast.remove.net> wrote in message news:2ks1311hsqcs6re67866vh167hpv5rpagv@4ax.com...> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:39:51 -0700, "Glfnaz" <glfnaz@qwesttrash.net> > wrote:>
"Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message>>news:K33Yd.22477$6g7.17164@bignews1.bellsouth.net...>>>
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message>>> news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...>>>>
"larry" <larry@delmardata.com> wrote in message>>>> news:19u0315ngdrg54egpc6hf662offg3g0ffs@4ax.com...>>>>> On 10 Mar 2005 07:07:30 -0800, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu> wrote:>>>>>
That's simple... for a basic shot... take a few practice swings with>>>>> >the club in question just brushing the grass. Put the ball at the low>>>>> >point of your swing with that particular club.>>>>>
I think it is more productive to place the ball where the club first>>>>> contacts the grass--even if it is off your back foot. The idea on>>>>> the course is to advance the ball, make solid contact and get it in>>>>> the air. My wife has some very nice shots like that--and has fun and>>>>> is not loath to play golf again.>>>>>
It is a MAJOR mistake for high handicappers to play the ball up off>>>>> their front foot like "the book" indicates--and then fail to make a>>>>> transition weight shift to move up there beside the ball on the>>>>> downswing. They mishit half the time. As Tom Watson says, it is>>>>> far better to just play it back and advance the ball.>>>>>
larry>>>>
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where >>>> your>>>> head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord>>>> and>>>> I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.>>>>
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and since>>> the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso is>>> pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.>>
The head is always behind low point of the swing.>
I'm going with you on this one, Glfnaz. The head is a bit behind the low> point. Not a lot. I think the low point would be just a bit forward of > the> left cheek or under the left chest, depending on the player's arc and> flexibility and the length of the club. The reason is that the shift and> rotation of the hips and the weight transfer toward the target moves the> center of the torso slightly out from under the head, toward the direction> of the shot. The head and upper body then release forward after the ball > is> gone to create a balanced finish over the front foot.>
Range Monster
I'd say that the further forward the low point the better the player.
"Glfnaz" <glfnaz@qwesttrash.net> wrote in message news:39c7mpF60koe0U1@individual.net...>
"Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message> news:K33Yd.22477$6g7.17164@bignews1.bellsouth.net...> >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message> > news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...> >>
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where
your> >> head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord> >> and> >> I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.> >>
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and since> > the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso is> > pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.>
The head is always behind low point of the swing.>
In fairness to Mr. McCord, he made this comment during his setup for a pitch shot which does not involve a lot of weight shift. Perhaps this quantifies his statement somewhat.
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:35:00 -0600, "the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
"Glfnaz" <glfnaz@qwesttrash.net> wrote in message>news:39c7mpF60koe0U1@individual.net...>>
"Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote in message>> news:K33Yd.22477$6g7.17164@bignews1.bellsouth.net...>> >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message>> > news:q9idnTs0sPURJa3fRVn-hQ@centurytel.net...>> >>
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where>your>> >> head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord>> >> and>> >> I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.>> >>
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and since>> > the head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso is>> > pretty much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.>>
The head is always behind low point of the swing.>>
In fairness to Mr. McCord, he made this comment during his setup for a pitch>shot which does not involve a lot of weight shift. Perhaps this quantifies>his statement somewhat.
Yes, that does make a difference. The ball is generally positioned in the middle of the stance directly under the head for pitch shots. There isn't a lot of weight transfer unless the shot requires a full swing.
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:45:28 -0500, MacHamish <rjimeson1@comcast.remove.net> wrote:
I'm going with you on this one, Glfnaz. The head is a bit behind the low>point. Not a lot. I think the low point would be just a bit forward of the>left cheek or under the left chest,
The low point of the arc is beneath where the left arm attaches to the shoulder. If I twirl a rock on a string on a vertical plane the low point of the arc will always be directly beneath my fingers. The low point of a circle is always below its center.
depending on the player's arc and>flexibility and the length of the club.
The length of the club has nothing to do with the low point. If I twirl a rock on a 3 foot string or a 7 foot string the low point of the arc will always be beneath my fingers, the center of rotation.
The reason is that the shift and>rotation of the hips and the weight transfer toward the target moves the>center of the torso slightly out from under the head,
But it doesn't change the left shoulders relation or distance from the head.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 23:20:22 -0500, MacHamish <rjimeson1@comcast.remove.net> wrote:
Yes, that does make a difference. The ball is generally positioned in the>middle of the stance directly under the head for pitch shots. There isn't a>lot of weight transfer unless the shot requires a full swing.
The ball is played in the middle of the stance because pitch shots are lower running shots and we play the ball back. Has nothing to with weight transfer and moving the low point.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:40:23 -0500, "Perfect Impact" <georgehibbard@bellsouth.net> wrote:
The lowest part of your swing is where your WEIGHT is located: and since the >head is pretty much near the center of the torso, and the torso is pretty >much where your weight is located, I have to agree with him.>
Do this: stand with all your weight on your right foot and make some easy >swings. Notice how far back the club bottoms out. Now change to an extreme >of all the weight on the left foot: do the same and note how far forward the >club bottoms out.>
Your head will pretty much go where you stand your weight.
Trying to keep up with your swing advice makes me dizzy. If the head is pretty much were you stand your weight than the controversial picture from your book (photo 13) shows a correct head position. Yet you keep telling us that is a drill and doesn't show correct impact position.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:13:44 -0600, "the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
I heard Gary McCord say that the lowest point of the swing is where your>head is. I don't know how much faith to put in advice from Gary McCord and>I don't think I ever heard anyone else mention this.
Only if your left arm were attached to the middle of your chest. Since our left arm is attached to our left shoulder the low point will always be beneath our left shoulder, the center of rotation.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 06:59:30 GMT, David Laville <dlaville@nospam.att.net> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:45:28 -0500, MacHamish><rjimeson1@comcast.remove.net> wrote:>
I'm going with you on this one, Glfnaz. The head is a bit behind the low>>point. Not a lot. I think the low point would be just a bit forward of the>>left cheek or under the left chest, >
The low point of the arc is beneath where the left arm attaches to the>shoulder. If I twirl a rock on a string on a vertical plane the low>point of the arc will always be directly beneath my fingers. The low>point of a circle is always below its center.
Right. The left shoulder joint is slightly forward of the left cheek, basically over the left breast, when the club bottoms out.
depending on the player's arc and>>flexibility and the length of the club. >
The length of the club has nothing to do with the low point. If I>twirl a rock on a 3 foot string or a 7 foot string the low point of>the arc will always be beneath my fingers, the center of rotation.
The length of the club does make a difference. Longer clubs are played forward to encourage a longer flat spot through the ball. The ball position moves back (more behind the left shoulder joint) as the clubs get shorter to promote a descending path.
The reason is that the shift and>>rotation of the hips and the weight transfer toward the target moves the>>center of the torso slightly out from under the head, >
But it doesn't change the left shoulders relation or distance from the>head.
No, but the ball position moves back in the stance from the driver to the wedge. Consequently, the head positron is less and less behind the ball at impact as the shafts get shorter.
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 06:59:39 GMT, David Laville <dlaville@nospam.att.net> wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 23:20:22 -0500, MacHamish><rjimeson1@comcast.remove.net> wrote:>
Yes, that does make a difference. The ball is generally positioned in the>>middle of the stance directly under the head for pitch shots. There isn't a>>lot of weight transfer unless the shot requires a full swing.>
The ball is played in the middle of the stance because pitch shots are>lower running shots and we play the ball back.
For a low, running pitch, the ball would be positioned behind the center of the stance, with the head and hands forward of the ball,. For a higer, softer landing pitch with a 56^ or 60* wedge, the ball would be positioned in the center of the stance, more or less directly beneath the head and hands. If the situation calls for a flop shot, the ball would be positioned forward of center with the hands and head behind the ball, more like a greenside bunker shot.
Has nothing to with>weight transfer and moving the low point.
I believe that's what I said. There is some weight transfer but not a lot, unless the distance is close to the maximum for the club being played. If you're hitting a full pitch shot -- say 120 yards -- the swing is more like any other full swing with the usual amount of turn and weight transfer.
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:52:21 -0500, MacHamish <rjimeson1@comcast.remove.net> wrote:
The length of the club has nothing to do with the low point. If I>>twirl a rock on a 3 foot string or a 7 foot string the low point of>>the arc will always be beneath my fingers, the center of rotation.>
The length of the club does make a difference. Longer clubs are played>forward to encourage a longer flat spot through the ball. The ball position>moves back (more behind the left shoulder joint) as the clubs get shorter to>promote a descending path.
I thought we were talking about the low point not flat spots at impact Either way this is a useless procedure. The lie angle of the club promotes the angle of attack. Shorter irons have a more upright plane than the longer irons automatically increasing the angle of attack. So even with one ball position the plane angle will increase or decrease the angle of attack. The reason a 9 iron is played further back than a 3 iron (and only 3.5 inches to be exact) is because the shorter irons travel through a smaller degree of arc and square up sooner. I would go into how the steeper plane also affects the rate of hinging but it's irrelevant to this discussion.
The reason is that the shift and>>>rotation of the hips and the weight transfer toward the target moves the>>>center of the torso slightly out from under the head, >>
But it doesn't change the left shoulders relation or distance from the>>head.>
No, but the ball position moves back in the stance from the driver to the>wedge.
But not for the reason you mentioned.
Consequently, the head positron is less and less behind the ball at>impact as the shafts get shorter.
And your point is?
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 04:07:03 GMT, Dave Clary <dclary@stx.rr.com> wrote:
The low point of the arc is beneath where the left arm attaches to the>>>shoulder. If I twirl a rock on a string on a vertical plane the low>>>point of the arc will always be directly beneath my fingers. The low>>>point of a circle is always below its center.>
But the point where the left arm attaches to the left shoulder is not always the>center of the circle. The following is a quote from Blake concerning right arm>swinging:>
"The Right Elbow Stroke Center is a condition of the Right Arm Swing (10-3-K).>Otherwise, you are attempting a Stroke with two Centers -- the Left Shoulder>(center of the Left Arm Swing) and the Right Elbow. This produces two 'circles'>and obvious conflicts.>
Also, with the Right Elbow serving as the Stroke Center, the Low Point of the>Stroke will be directly opposite the Elbow. Hence, the Right Elbow must be>located in front of the Ball for a true Three-Dimensional Impact. This is yet>another reason to keep that Right Arm moving during Release."
10-3-K is a minor basic stroke and minor strokes are arm motions used for less than full shots. Per 1-F it is always a left arm stroke unless the right elbow replaces the left shoulder as the center of the clubhead arc. This means that when the left arm bends the right elbow than becomes the center of the clubhead arc as in 10-3-K the "Bat". I assumed this thread was about the full swing.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
Miss Anne Thrope 14 March 2005 16:46:34 [ permanent link ]
George, in golf, ball position is always the same, no matter what the skill level of the player happens to be. Usually, balls are positioned squarely on the golfer's chin.
On 11-Mar-2005, David Laville <dlaville@nospam.att.net> wrote:
The low point of the arc is beneath where the left arm attaches to the> shoulder.
This point changes during my swing. Which may be part of my problems.
The length of the club has nothing to do with the low point. If I> twirl a rock on a 3 foot string or a 7 foot string the low point of> the arc will always be beneath my fingers, the center of rotation.
A 7-foot string won't work for me. My legs are too short.
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:19:49 GMT, David Laville <dlaville@nospam.att.net> wrote:
Consequently, the head positron is less and less behind the ball at>>impact as the shafts get shorter.>
And your point is?
The Moderator started this sub-thread by posting that Gary McCord says the low point of the swing is where the head is. I replied that the low point is forward of the head. You replied that it is where the left arm connects with the shoulder. We're in danger of agreeing, so what's your point?
"MacHamish" <rjimeson1@comcast.remove.net> wrote in message news:uteb31lfahdsv32ghc8fde5mmt8agjlvs3@4ax.com...> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:19:49 GMT, David Laville <dlaville@nospam.att.net>> wrote:>
Consequently, the head positron is less and less behind the ball at> >>impact as the shafts get shorter.> >
And your point is?>
The Moderator started this sub-thread by posting that Gary McCord says the> low point of the swing is where the head is. I replied that the low point> is forward of the head. You replied that it is where the left arm
connects> with the shoulder. We're in danger of agreeing, so what's your point?>
The point is to split hairs. There has never been a single note here that had anything to do with a swing that didn't go down strange ratholes.
McCords book was Golf for DUMMIES (or Idiots, I don't remember). Gary was simply explaining in a way that any "idiot" could understand how to approximate "where" the bottom of the swing was. This isn't a book designed for the touring Pro, or even someone with a 15 handicap - it's giving you some simple fundamentals anyone can remember, to get you to the point of non-embarassment on the course.
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:35:47 -0500, MacHamish <rjimeson1@comcast.remove.net> wrote:
And your point is?>
The Moderator started this sub-thread by posting that Gary McCord says the>low point of the swing is where the head is. I replied that the low point>is forward of the head. You replied that it is where the left arm connects>with the shoulder. We're in danger of agreeing, so what's your point?
Let me correct your spin job. This is what you wrote;
:I think the low point would be just a bit forward of the left cheek or :under the left chest, depending on the player's arc and flexibility and :the length of the club.
1) I pointed out it's not under the left chest and is in fact under where the left arm connects to the shoulder.
2) I pointed out it had nothing to do with the length of the club.
We were not in danger of agreeing.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:28:40 -0500, "GFrenette" <remove-gfrenette@videotron.ca> wrote:
Can someone who can strike accurately off the fairway with 3W, 5W and 7W>clubs please comment on how and where to position the ball. For example,>would you place it identically for a 5W as you would a 3I, 5I or 7I.
I'm from the school that woods and long irons are played from the same position. Mid irons are played one ball width back and short irons and wedges one ball width behind that. So from driver to wedge the ball only changes position 3 ball widths.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
I'm from the school that woods and long irons are played from the same> position. Mid irons are played one ball width back and short irons> and wedges one ball width behind that. So from driver to wedge the> ball only changes position 3 ball widths.
Doesn't that make 2 ball widths?
-- Cheers Colin Wilson ------------------------------------------------------------------ Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com ------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:00:51 +1100, Colin Wilson <publish@kyneton.net.au> wrote:
David Laville wrote:>
I'm from the school that woods and long irons are played from the same>> position. Mid irons are played one ball width back and short irons>> and wedges one ball width behind that. So from driver to wedge the>> ball only changes position 3 ball widths.>
Doesn't that make 2 ball widths?
Okay I stand corrected.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
-- Cheers Colin Wilson ------------------------------------------------------------------ Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com ------------------------------------------------------------------
