Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from that malady.
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how much?
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target line is 12:00 o'clock)?
"Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote in message news:wc2dnSQWnOX4PLHfRVn-oQ@comcast.com...> Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> that malady.>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how> much?
No, in fact that could make it worse. I'd take the club outside on the backswing to fix it. Better yet, put all of your practice balls 1.5 inches from a 2x4. Hit those everyday for a week. It'll cure you or persuade you to quit.
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to> right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target> line is 12:00 o'clock)?
Never, but I've heard that some people do that. I'd take my hands from the top and aim them to my rt toes. Lower the handle. Lower the handle. Get the grip cap low as soon as possible. ( this is a drill )
On 7-Mar-2005, "Glfnaz" <glfnaz@qwesttrash.net> wrote:
"Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote in message> news:wc2dnSQWnOX4PLHfRVn-oQ@comcast.com...> > Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> > that malady.> >
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If> > so....how> > much?>
No, in fact that could make it worse.> I'd take the club outside on the backswing to fix it.
I'm with Glfnaz on tis one. Don't think of the swing as a back and through straight line, but more of a figure eight (albeit a very, very, THIN figure eight.).
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:21:39 -0800, "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote:
Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from>that malady.>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how>much?>
I've gotten into trouble by taking the club back too far inside. Last lesson that I had, the pro told me to just bring it back straight. That helped a lot.>2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to>right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target>line is 12:00 o'clock)?> The best thought that I've ever heard on that was from Annika 1980, and I try to keep it as one of the few thoughts during my swing:
Think about putting your right hand in your right front pocket on your downswing.
"Glfnaz" <glfnaz@qwesttrash.net> wrote in message news:393n0hF5r14d4U1@individual.net...>
"Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote in message> news:wc2dnSQWnOX4PLHfRVn-oQ@comcast.com...> > Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> > that malady.> >
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If
so....how> > much?>
No, in fact that could make it worse.> I'd take the club outside on the backswing to fix it.
My pro is having me go inside for now. I suspect as an exaggeration. My original takeaway was outside the target line.
Better yet, put all of your practice balls 1.5 inches from a 2x4.> Hit those everyday for a week.
That is a good drill but I think I'll use a club box....easier on my 4 iron.
It'll cure you or persuade you to quit.
Or buy new clubs from Dalecki.
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club
right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target> > line is 12:00 o'clock)?>
Never, but I've heard that some people do that. I'd take my hands from the> top and aim them to my rt toes. Lower the handle. Lower the handle. Get
grip cap low as soon as possible.> ( this is a drill )
Pump drill....good one, especially with a Momentus.
"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net> wrote in message news:ql9p2194nsl4gljrutg2bcbvqvb6lg9vme@4ax.com...> On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:21:39 -0800, "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com>> wrote:>
Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> >that malady.> >
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how> >much?> >
I've gotten into trouble by taking the club back too far inside. Last> lesson that I had, the pro told me to just bring it back straight.> That helped a lot.> >2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club
right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target> >line is 12:00 o'clock)?> >
The best thought that I've ever heard on that was from Annika 1980,> and I try to keep it as one of the few thoughts during my swing:>
Think about putting your right hand in your right front pocket on your> downswing.
Hmmm.....IIRC, Annika had his hands in his pockets throughout our round together.
-Greg
Ps. That is an excellent swing thought. You can't swing OTT if your right hand is passing very closely to your right pocket.
In article <wc2dnSQWnOX4PLHfRVn-oQ@comcast.com>, "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote:
Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> that malady.>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how> much?
No. Taking a club back inside can *lead* to over the top.
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to> right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target> line is 12:00 o'clock)?
All I do is try to envision the target line and make my club's motion start inside, meet the line at impact and the return inside.
-- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Dene (nospam) wrote:> Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> that malady.>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If
so....how> much?
As others have pointed out, this is the WRONG way to do it. If you take it back too far inside, you CANNOT come back down on the same path.
To combat too far inside, my pro would stand at the 1:30 clock position and say "take the club back toward me". This would make me take it more outside (although it FELT like I was taking it back to 1:30, it was more like 3).
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the
club to> right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target> line is 12:00 o'clock)?
This is a good way to visualize it when you're practicing on the range, but I don't think you should think this way on the course.
My pro is having me go inside for now. I suspect as an exaggeration.
Pros will do that sometimes. But have you actually seen this on video?
I know from years of pro bowling that even the slightest little change - imperceptible to someone else -- can "feel" like a HUGE change to me.
You may FEEL like he's got you taking it inside. It's probably a path that is further inside than you were taking it before. Or maybe he's stumbled on to something with you -- that getting you to THINK you're taking it back to the inside that he's actually got you doing something altogether different that has nothing whatsoever to do with path. It's hard to know.
Either way, no good golfer in the world takes the club back on the inside. An inside takeaway is one of the WORST things you can do when trying to cure OTT. (See my other post in this thread for details about why.)
Dene wrote:> Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> that malady.>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how> much?
OTT sufferer, mostly cured.
I don't want to take the club inside. This is bad. I try to take it 'straight up', even with driver. This is a feeling, not really what happens. The club is just slightly outside the plane if I do it right.
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to> right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target> line is 12:00 o'clock)?
Not really. I just try to keep my right shoulder 'tied back' and let my arms come back to the ball, firing the hips. This helps to bring the right forearm/shaft plane back to ball just a bit from the inside.
When I'm in sync I hit the ball pretty well.
YMMV.
-Greg>
-- Ron
CHARTER MEMBER, Irrecoverable DarkSiders Association email me at striker1 at csinet dot net
""R&B"" <NotMyAddress@All.com> wrote in message news:j16Xd.5024$CW2.278@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...> "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote> >
My pro is having me go inside for now. I suspect as an exaggeration.>
Pros will do that sometimes. But have you actually seen this on video?
He did record the b4 and after of my swing. My takeaway definitely was outside the target line and very upright. The correction is more inside but not significantly (it just feels that way).
I know from years of pro bowling that even the slightest little change -> imperceptible to someone else -- can "feel" like a HUGE change to me.>
You may FEEL like he's got you taking it inside. It's probably a path
that> is further inside than you were taking it before. Or maybe he's stumbled
to something with you -- that getting you to THINK you're taking it back
the inside that he's actually got you doing something altogether different> that has nothing whatsoever to do with path. It's hard to know.
It's the first lesson of three. He never implied that it was to a permanent facet of my swing.
Either way, no good golfer in the world takes the club back on the inside.> An inside takeaway is one of the WORST things you can do when trying to
cure> OTT. (See my other post in this thread for details about why.)
Read it....good post....thanks for taking the time to write it. I will definitely raise these concerns with him on lesson two.
"Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote in message news:wc2dnSQWnOX4PLHfRVn-oQ@comcast.com...> Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> that malady.>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeaway? If so....how> much?>
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to> right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target> line is 12:00 o'clock)?
Well, I don't know if it's ever "cured" per se, but I've reduced it significantly just based on my divot pattern (even on bad shots).....much more shallow divots.
1. I don't think of it as more inside, but that's the result, yes. A flatter plane would probably describe mine better, but I don't even think of it as a "flatter plane". I use other thoughts or conscious efforts to achieve those results.
2. No, I let those also result as a product of other thoughts. My divot isn't even really out to right field....more 6-12 o'clock....right down the line. When I get OTT, the divot stays 6-12 o'clock, but the toe of the club digs deeper than the heel.
-- Scott D. Newell (newellatwsu@adelphia.net) Washington State University "That shot is impossible!...Jack Nicholson himself couldn't make it!"-- Homer Simpson
"Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote in message news:wc2dnSQWnOX4PLHfRVn-oQ@comcast.com...> Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> that malady.>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how> much?>
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to> right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target> line is 12:00 o'clock)?
One thing to keep in mind Greg is that you can come OTT from being too inside (flat -- more common) OR too outside (upright -- less common). The idea is to be on plane and especially, avoid the extremes.
After experimenting with wrist angles/cocking/hinging to flatten my plane I've found that I can get too flat also. I'm to a point now where I'm working on what Glfnaz is talking about....trying to keep the clubhead slightly outside the hands in the beginning of the backswing....if I don't my hands/arms separate from my body right from the get-go resulting in a severe bowed wrist at the top. Hooks, hooks, hooks. More inside works at the beginning if you're curing an upright plane, but the results are short-lived.
-- Scott D. Newell (newellatwsu@adelphia.net) Washington State University "That shot is impossible!...Jack Nicholson himself couldn't make it!"-- Homer Simpson
I have an OTT sometimes but mine is caused when I get to flat. what happens is that I try to come into the ball from the inside but what I'm feeling isn't really what is happening. My better shots have the feeling of being very upright.
Check out my swing from last year, My mistake that day was being too inside on the takeaway during the round, and you can see it in this; it causes me to go way past parallel and in turn be to be too flat on the downswing. I was able to correct for it in this swing and hit a nice draw
Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from>>that malady.>>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how>>much?>>
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to>>right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target>>line is 12:00 o'clock)?
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:21:39 -0800, "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote:
Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from>that malady.>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how>much?
No. Let the tip of the shaft trace the plane line and the clubhead will swing up, back and in on-plane.
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to>right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target>line is 12:00 o'clock)?
Sort of. I'll try toexplain this as simple as possible. The figures I am using are grossly exaggerated to get the point across. Imagine you are standing in the middle of a swing plane that extends 12" into the ground Where the ground meets the plane we'll draw a line and call this the "impact plane line". On this line is where the club will impact the ball since the ball is sitting on the ground. Now image 3" further down into the ground and further out (remember the plane is angled into the ground) is another line drawn across the face of the plane. We'll call this the "low point plane line" and it represents where the low point of the arc is. So we have an impact plane line and a low point plane line and since they're drawn across the face of the plane they are parallel to one another. See 2-N-0 in this regard.
Our goal is to hit the ball on the impact plane line and drive it down to the low point plane line. Because the plane is tilted we'll be trying to drive the ball down, out and forward to the low point plane line. This gives us an "inside-out impact" We don't really drive the ball into the ground but because we swing in a circle and the circle lies on the plane the path of our clubhead will be down, out and forward to the low point. That's the geometry of the circle. After we blast down to the low point plane line the club swings up, back and in across the impact plane line again.
We swing on a tilted plane so all downswing motions are down, out and forward to low point. Impact is inside-out since the ball is contacted before low point. The only way you can have a "down the line" impact is if the golfer swings on a vertical plane (think of a wall). I don't ever recall seeing a golfer swing on a plane like that so trying to achieve a down the line impact is a waste of time. Yet many golfers spend their golfing lives trying to do it.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
"Matt Aamold" <ma_amol_d@comcast.net> wrote in message news:WpmdnfUmWIrds7DfRVn-qQ@comcast.com...> Hey Greg,>
I have an OTT sometimes but mine is caused when I get to flat. what> happens is that I try to come into the ball from the inside but what I'm> feeling isn't really what is happening. My better shots have the> feeling of being very upright.>
Check out my swing from last year, My mistake that day was being too> inside on the takeaway during the round, and you can see it in this; it> causes me to go way past parallel and in turn be to be too flat on the> downswing. I was able to correct for it in this swing and hit a nice draw>
You and I are polar opposites on the takeaway. Jim is definitely trying to flatten me out. Somewhere there will be a happy medium....hopefully in time for RSG-NW.
"Scott Newell" <newellatwsu@below.me.spammers.adelphia.net> wrote in message news:0-GdnYWUdexUjrDfRVn-uw@adelphia.com...> "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote in message> news:wc2dnSQWnOX4PLHfRVn-oQ@comcast.com...> > Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> > that malady.> >
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeaway? If
so....how> > much?> >
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club
right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target> > line is 12:00 o'clock)?>
Well, I don't know if it's ever "cured" per se, but I've reduced it> significantly just based on my divot pattern (even on bad shots).....much> more shallow divots.
You use to have a nasty slice a few years ago....right?
1. I don't think of it as more inside, but that's the result, yes. A> flatter plane would probably describe mine better, but I don't even think
it as a "flatter plane". I use other thoughts or conscious efforts to> achieve those results.>
2. No, I let those also result as a product of other thoughts. My divot> isn't even really out to right field....more 6-12 o'clock....right down
line. When I get OTT, the divot stays 6-12 o'clock, but the toe of the
club> digs deeper than the heel.
My divots remain 11/5 at best. Better than 10/4 last week.
-Greg
-- > Scott D. Newell (newellatwsu@adelphia.net)> Washington State University> "That shot is impossible!...Jack Nicholson> himself couldn't make it!"-- Homer Simpson>
You and I are polar opposites on the takeaway. Jim is definitely trying to> flatten me out. Somewhere there will be a happy medium....hopefully in time> for RSG-NW.>
-Greg>
STONE CREEK, name the time and I'll be there. I'm pretty much free this week, but will be doing a PC Refresh for a company the week of the 14th.
"David Laville" <dlaville@nospam.att.net> wrote in message news:7mdq21dv34940bb6a1l22vppdbue9amad0@4ax.com...> On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:21:39 -0800, "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com>> wrote:>
Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from> >that malady.> >
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how> >much?>
No. Let the tip of the shaft trace the plane line and the clubhead> will swing up, back and in on-plane.
How does this related to the right forearm tracing the target line. Same thing?
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club
right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target> >line is 12:00 o'clock)?>
Sort of. I'll try toexplain this as simple as possible. The> figures I am using are grossly exaggerated to get the point across.> Imagine you are standing in the middle of a swing plane that extends> 12" into the ground Where the ground meets the plane we'll draw a> line and call this the "impact plane line". On this line is where the> club will impact the ball since the ball is sitting on the ground.> Now image 3" further down into the ground and further out (remember> the plane is angled into the ground) is another line drawn across the> face of the plane. We'll call this the "low point plane line" and it> represents where the low point of the arc is. So we have an impact> plane line and a low point plane line and since they're drawn across> the face of the plane they are parallel to one another. See 2-N-0 in> this regard.>
Our goal is to hit the ball on the impact plane line and drive it down> to the low point plane line. Because the plane is tilted we'll be> trying to drive the ball down, out and forward to the low point plane> line. This gives us an "inside-out impact" We don't really drive the> ball into the ground but because we swing in a circle and the circle> lies on the plane the path of our clubhead will be down, out and> forward to the low point. That's the geometry of the circle. After> we blast down to the low point plane line the club swings up, back and> in across the impact plane line again.>
We swing on a tilted plane so all downswing motions are down, out and> forward to low point. Impact is inside-out since the ball is> contacted before low point. The only way you can have a "down the> line" impact is if the golfer swings on a vertical plane (think of a> wall). I don't ever recall seeing a golfer swing on a plane like that> so trying to achieve a down the line impact is a waste of time. Yet> many golfers spend their golfing lives trying to do it.>
Good explanation of a complicated concept. 2-N-0 is Greek. Is this the concept that supports Yoda's advice that one should hit the 4 o'clock position of the ball (noon being the target)?
If so, then my pro's teaching is accurate, though deliberately exaggerated.
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:21:39 -0800, "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote:
Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from>that malady.>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how>much?>
2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to>right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target>line is 12:00 o'clock)?>
-Greg>
Golf is a game of opposites, i.e. ,hit down to get the ball in the air. Take the club up more vertically on the takeaway, and aim left to achieve an inside out swing. Sounds completely wrong, but it actually works. Of course start the downswing motion of the arms and hands down the incline plane towards the inside corner of the ball.
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 10:44:54 -0500, Doe John <gringo@gringo.net> wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:21:39 -0800, "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com>>wrote:>
Two questions for those of you who have cured OTT or never suffered from>>that malady.>>
1. Do you consciously take the club inside on the takeway? If so....how>>much?>>hjun>>2. On the downswing and followthrough, do you consciously aim the club to>>right field, i.e. the 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock position (assuming the target>>line is 12:00 o'clock)?>>
-Greg>>
Golf is a game of opposites, i.e. ,hit down to get the ball in the>air. Take the club up more vertically on the takeaway, and aim left to>achieve an inside out swing. Sounds completely wrong, but it actually>works. Of course start the downswing motion of the arms and hands down>the incline plane towards the inside corner of the ball.
Also make sure you keep rotating or else you will be steering down the target line instead of swinging on plane
"Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote in message news:NcOdncKsspSvpbDfRVn-2w@comcast.com...> "Scott Newell" <newellatwsu@below.me.spammers.adelphia.net> wrote in message> news:0-GdnYWUdexUjrDfRVn-uw@adelphia.com...> > Well, I don't know if it's ever "cured" per se, but I've reduced it> > significantly just based on my divot pattern (even on bad shots).....much> > more shallow divots.>
You use to have a nasty slice a few years ago....right?
Not really....my main problem was a steep angle of attack....deep divots and no accuracy whatsoever. I never really fought the banana ball....I could miss it 50 yards left or right from one swing to the next. Problem is my pulls would hook further left -- while pushes would slice further right....no correction. Not that it's perfect now, but most times I don't get the punishing curve....and sometimes I even get a little self-correction.
But my old divots were like yours.....big 10-4, good buddy. Now they're 6-12 even when I get a little OTT.
-- Scott D. Newell (newellatwsu@adelphia.net) Washington State University "That shot is impossible!...Jack Nicholson himself couldn't make it!"-- Homer Simpson
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:33:25 -0800, "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote:
No. Let the tip of the shaft trace the plane line and the clubhead>> will swing up, back and in on-plane.>
How does this related to the right forearm tracing the target line. Same>thing?
If both the shaft and right forearm are on the same plane it will trace the target (plane) line. The best advice I can give you is to just take the club back parallel to the ground and target line at hip high and let it go to he top.
Good explanation of a complicated concept. 2-N-0 is Greek.
It can be but when you understand it his explanations are not that complicated. Yoda told us that Homer told him if he knew it was going to be this simple he probably would have never written the book.
Is this the>concept that supports Yoda's advice that one should hit the 4 o'clock>position of the ball (noon being the target)?
I would assume so.
If so, then my pro's teaching is accurate, though deliberately exaggerated.
Sometimes you have to exaggerate to get the point across like I did.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
"David Laville" <dlaville@nospam.att.net> wrote in message news:dcfs21587ok5ss13ed7kjfa502jfiuc6mc@4ax.com...> On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:33:25 -0800, "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com>> wrote:>
No. Let the tip of the shaft trace the plane line and the clubhead> >> will swing up, back and in on-plane.> >
How does this related to the right forearm tracing the target line. Same> >thing?>
If both the shaft and right forearm are on the same plane it will> trace the target (plane) line. The best advice I can give you is to> just take the club back parallel to the ground and target line at hip> high and let it go to he top.
Good advice. I spoke to my pro today and asked him if his correction was having me take the club inside. He said no....it just felt like it to me. It's more of an inclined arc.
Good explanation of a complicated concept. 2-N-0 is Greek.>
It can be but when you understand it his explanations are not that> complicated. Yoda told us that Homer told him if he knew it was going> to be this simple he probably would have never written the book.
Hmmm....I suspect your written test wasn't simple. ;>
Is this the> >concept that supports Yoda's advice that one should hit the 4 o'clock> >position of the ball (noon being the target)?>
I would assume so.>
If so, then my pro's teaching is accurate, though deliberately
exaggerated.>
Sometimes you have to exaggerate to get the point across like I did.
Yep....he told me to keep the exaggeration going another week and then see him for lesson two. It's wonderful that he has the video of me, b4 and after. It will reveal if "after" is taking hold.
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:31:00 -0800, "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote:
Good advice. I spoke to my pro today and asked him if his correction was>having me take the club inside. He said no....it just felt like it to me.>It's more of an inclined arc.
Inclined arc. That's a good term.
Good explanation of a complicated concept. 2-N-0 is Greek.>>
It can be but when you understand it his explanations are not that>> complicated. Yoda told us that Homer told him if he knew it was going>> to be this simple he probably would have never written the book.>
Hmmm....I suspect your written test wasn't simple. ;>
The written test wasn't simple -then- but I bet it would be a lot easier now only because I have a lot more experience with TGM. The information that was in the incubator has hatched (chapter 14).
Sometimes you have to exaggerate to get the point across like I did.>
Yep....he told me to keep the exaggeration going another week and then see>him for lesson two. It's wonderful that he has the video of me, b4 and>after. It will reveal if "after" is taking hold.
One of my favorite golf quotes comes from Jimmy Ballard. He says before you can change your swing you have to first change your mind. If you can change your mind that your old way was wrong and the new way is right it will take hold immediately and never come back. If you're fighting it it's because you have your doubts. I'll stop now because I'm starting to sound like Dr. Rotella.
David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
"David Laville" <dlaville@nospam.att.net> wrote in message >> One of my favorite golf quotes comes from Jimmy Ballard. He says> before you can change your swing you have to first change your mind.> If you can change your mind that your old way was wrong and the new> way is right it will take hold immediately and never come back. If> you're fighting it it's because you have your doubts. I'll stop now> because I'm starting to sound like Dr. Rotella.
Not bad Dr. Laville (though I don't think you have Rotella or Strauss worried).
Never heard Ballard say that. I have both of his video....equally incoherent. However, he's right. My OTT move is largely fueled by the thought of hitting it hard with the right side vs. channeling the thrust through the left side, under my left shoulder. When I step up the ball, I have to believe that aiming the clubhead toward right field will yield a straight/powerful shot. That's especially challenging when there is water to the right, as is the case on 3 of my club's holes.
"David Laville" <dlaville@nospam.att.net> wrote in message newsius211fdgb0uvvc8oju48ojpvlsvbpbv5@4ax.com...> One of my favorite golf quotes comes from Jimmy Ballard. He says> before you can change your swing you have to first change your mind.> If you can change your mind that your old way was wrong and the new> way is right it will take hold immediately and never come back. If> you're fighting it it's because you have your doubts.
Couldn't agree more. 'Nuff said. I changed my mind....and my swing changed.
It's not automatic, but it will change if your mind allows. -- Scott D. Newell (newellatwsu@adelphia.net) Washington State University "That shot is impossible!...Jack Nicholson himself couldn't make it!"-- Homer Simpson
"Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote in message news:fPSdnRUMO_xTAbPfRVn-qg@comcast.com...> Never heard Ballard say that. I have both of his video....equally> incoherent. However, he's right. My OTT move is largely fueled by the> thought of hitting it hard with the right side vs. channeling the thrust> through the left side, under my left shoulder. When I step up the ball, I> have to believe that aiming the clubhead toward right field will yield a> straight/powerful shot. That's especially challenging when there is water> to the right, as is the case on 3 of my club's holes.
Don't worry about the H20 right....worry only about the target. The target is the only thing that matters.
-- Scott D. Newell (newellatwsu@adelphia.net) Washington State University "That shot is impossible!...Jack Nicholson himself couldn't make it!"-- Homer Simpson
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 04:23:48 GMT, David Laville <dlaville@nospam.att.net> wrote:
One of my favorite golf quotes comes from Jimmy Ballard. He says> before you can change your swing you have to first change your mind.> If you can change your mind that your old way was wrong and the new> way is right it will take hold immediately and never come back. If> you're fighting it it's because you have your doubts.
This is good stuff, David. Don't stop. I have, after a few years of more-or-less crappy golf, changed my mind. My swing sucks. I'm in the process of changing it, as per my previous post. On my way to the range in about an hour, right after a stop at the orthopedist to get my left wrist put in a cast . 'Tain't easy, but I'm gonna give 'er a shot.
"Matt Aamold" <ma_amol_d@comcast.net> wrote in message news:WpmdnfUmWIrds7DfRVn-qQ@comcast.com...> Hey Greg,>
I have an OTT sometimes but mine is caused when I get to flat. what> happens is that I try to come into the ball from the inside but what I'm> feeling isn't really what is happening. My better shots have the> feeling of being very upright.>
Check out my swing from last year, My mistake that day was being too> inside on the takeaway during the round, and you can see it in this; it> causes me to go way past parallel and in turn be to be too flat on the> downswing. I was able to correct for it in this swing and hit a nice draw>
Let me tell you fellas, Matt's swing has improved! We played today at Heron's Lakes Great Blue, slope 138. Well.....we were both blue. Me due to some familiar struggles with some butt ugly slices and three sets of 3 putts. Matt....for no short game to speak of.
But.....he plastered the ball off the tee. He's real smooth with an admirable pause at the top, then boom. Ball go far....ball go straight....sometimes.
We played stableford. I shot 16 which was 8 points off my index. Matt got a 14. Nonetheless, good time to be had by all. Shorts weather in March....who'd thunk it?
"Glfnaz" <glfnaz@qwesttrash.net> wrote in message news:393n0hF5r14d4U1@individual.net...
Never, but I've heard that some people do that. I'd take my hands from the> top and aim them to my rt toes. Lower the handle. Lower the handle. Get
grip cap low as soon as possible.> ( this is a drill )>
Today Matt explained a swing thought that correlated to this. His pro taught him to hit the ball with the heel of his right hand, figuratively. It's an interesting feel to one who casts. At the end of our round today, he reminded me to put it into effect. Results were 4 bringer-backers. I'm looking forward to applying it tomorrow on the range.
Santa Cruz Bill 11 March 2005 10:47:11 [ permanent link ]
Dene (nospam) wrote:> ""R&B"" <NotMyAddress@All.com> wrote in message> news:j16Xd.5024$CW2.278@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...> > "Dene" <dene@(nospam)ipns.com> wrote> > >
My pro is having me go inside for now. I suspect as an
exaggeration.> >
Pros will do that sometimes. But have you actually seen this on
video?>
He did record the b4 and after of my swing. My takeaway definitely
outside the target line and very upright. The correction is more
inside but> not significantly (it just feels that way).
I had a problem at one point (who knows, maybe I still do) of my hands moving out and away from my body at the start of my backswing. This came from lifting the club rather than swinging it back.
"Glfnaz" <glfnaz@qwesttrash.net> wrote in message news:39cjolF60h3gsU1@individual.net...> "Glfnaz" <glfnaz@qwesttrash.net> wrote in message> news:39ci5jF5v3asmU1@individual.net...> > "Scott Newell" <newellatwsu@below.me.spammers.adelphia.net> wrote in> > message news:GPadnWVHUv-3jazfRVn-vg@adelphia.com...> >> I don't deny that this method has worked for you guys, but I don't really> >> understand why the 2x4 works for some and not for others. It didn't work> >> for me. I really believe the gross-OTT is a result and plane based -- > >> so,> >> IMHO, you need to fix something in the setup/backswing plane/downswing> >> plane> >> before you'll miss the board.> >>
Maybe the 2x4 helps those with solid fundamentals and only a slight
OTT?> >
Did your mother drop you when you were a little child?>
I looked up the clinical trials in my book--'Perfect 2 X 4'.> 99% of those using the drill got perfect results.> Howver 1% of participants were found that if they were breast fed from the> rt breast on even numbered days, they did not find success. Best results> were from those kids breast fed in a random fashion.> Clinical results and Testimonials can be found at---> www.Perfect2X4.com
Thanks much for the instruction and feedback.
-- Scott D. Newell (newellatwsu@adelphia.net) Washington State University "That shot is impossible!...Jack Nicholson himself couldn't make it!"-- Homer Simpson
Today Matt explained a swing thought that correlated to this. His pro> taught him to hit the ball with the heel of his right hand, figuratively.> It's an interesting feel to one who casts. At the end of our round today,> he reminded me to put it into effect. Results were 4 bringer-backers. I'm> looking forward to applying it tomorrow on the range.>
-Greg>
Yup, everytime Greg tried to feel that swing-type he hit it straight and with power.
It's more of the first move down is with the heel of the right hand after that you just feel like you're wipping your right hand through impact and hitting the ball with your right hand 'ala Hogan'. I would say that none of this is a direct concsience thought but a feel thouhgt, over do it and you'll tense up and hit a band shot. Maybe I should try this thought on my chipping and pitching ??!?!?!?!
My pro was standing about 30 yards away and I mentioned to Greg to go give him a $20
Let me tell you fellas, Matt's swing has improved! We played today at> Heron's Lakes Great Blue, slope 138. Well.....we were both blue. Me due to> some familiar struggles with some butt ugly slices and three sets of 3> putts. Matt....for no short game to speak of.
Ugg, my short game. For some reason I just can't swing correctly on short shots !?!
But.....he plastered the ball off the tee. He's real smooth with an> admirable pause at the top, then boom. Ball go far....ball go> straight....sometimes.
Sometimes straight to the fairway, where it promptly disapears.
We played stableford. I shot 16 which was 8 points off my index. Matt got> a 14. Nonetheless, good time to be had by all. Shorts weather in> March....who'd thunk it? >-Greg
Short game, I bet anyone I've played with has noticed my short games costs me bucco shots. Ahh Shorts game in March!
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:01:12 -0800, "Scott Newell" <newellatwsu@below.me.spammers.adelphia.net> wrote:
The down, out, forward sequence explains a lot as well as feeling the right>shoulder move down the plane before it moves out.
Those are very good ways to think about the sequence of the downswing and the movement of the right shoulder. If you get those right, you'll hit solid shots.
"Glfnaz" <glfnaz@qwesttrash.net> wrote in message news:39g846F60nv3sU1@individual.net...> Yeah but I was never breast fed.> So I'm handicapped a bit.
Not breast fed either....(well at least not until my teenage years ...and severely handicapped, as you can tell.
-- Scott D. Newell (newellatwsu@adelphia.net) Washington State University "That shot is impossible!...Jack Nicholson himself couldn't make it!"-- Homer Simpson
BowTie - Chevy 15 March 2005 22:32:34 [ permanent link ]
I agree with most of what you are saying. My instructor cannot tolerate me taking it back inside. He wants it on the line or even a little outside. Then the fun starts. I try to get in a good X-factor position.>From the top, I am jamming my hands into the slot. I have no choice but to come from the inside. My only fear is not to over-release and hit a huge hook.
Ken
+++++++++++++++++++++++
On the downswing, you don't do s. The downswing happens too fast to try to reroute or manipulate the club in any way in that half second between the top of the swing and impact. If you do attempt anything at that stage,
you've surely brought the right hand into the shot too much, which can only result in bad things. By the time the club is at the top of the swing, the die is cast. All you can do from there is to set the downswing sequence into motion with your lower body (and hope you've done so correctly) and hang on for dear life.
