The New York Times Does It Again

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The New York Times Does It Again
Guest 22 March 2005 17:11:07
	http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/News_Release.asp?NewsRelease=20050322.txt FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 24 TERRORISTS KILLED DURING ATTACK ON COALITION FORCES BAGHDAD, Iraq - At approximately noon today, 24 terrorists were killed and seven wounded when they attacked coalition forces on the outskirts of Baghdad. Six soldiers were injured during the attack. The New York Times story: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/21/international/middleeast/21iraq.html?pagewanted=print&position= "Details about the Salman Pak ambush were vague, but the audacity of the insurgents, on the second anniversary of the start of the American military campaign that toppled Saddam Hussein, showed that the guerrilla war still burns fiercely here, long after President Bush proclaimed major combat operations over and despite a high turnout among Iraqis in the Jan. 30 elections. As the violence persists and as the winners of those elections continue to haggle over a new government, the optimism from the vote is quickly fading among ordinary Iraqis." -Tom Enright
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Xyzzy 22 March 2005 22:25:44 [ permanent link ]
	alicamdun@yahoo.com wrote: http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/News_Release.asp?NewsRelease=20050322.txt> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE> 24 TERRORISTS KILLED DURING ATTACK ON COALITION FORCES> BAGHDAD, Iraq - At approximately noon today, 24 terrorists> were killed and seven wounded when they attacked coalition> forces on the outskirts of Baghdad. Six soldiers were> injured during the attack.> The New York Times story:> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/21/international/middleeast/21iraq.html?pagewanted=print&position=> "Details about the Salman Pak ambush were vague, but the> audacity of the insurgents, on the second anniversary of> the start of the American military campaign that toppled> Saddam Hussein, showed that the guerrilla war still burns> fiercely here, long after President Bush proclaimed major> combat operations over and despite a high turnout among> Iraqis in the Jan. 30 elections. As the violence persists> and as the winners of those elections continue to haggle> over a new government, the optimism from the vote is> quickly fading among ordinary Iraqis."> -Tom Enright> Are you asserting an Army press release as the standard of objectivity?
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Trevor Zion Bauknight 22 March 2005 22:57:33 [ permanent link ]
	In article <1111497067.268534.139800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, alicamdun@yahoo.com wrote: http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/News_Release.asp?NewsRelease=20050322.txt> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE> 24 TERRORISTS KILLED DURING ATTACK ON COALITION FORCES> BAGHDAD, Iraq - At approximately noon today, 24 terrorists> were killed and seven wounded when they attacked coalition> forces on the outskirts of Baghdad. Six soldiers were> injured during the attack.> The New York Times story:> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/21/international/middleeast/21iraq.html?pagewan> ted=print&position=> "Details about the Salman Pak ambush were vague, but the> audacity of the insurgents, on the second anniversary of> the start of the American military campaign that toppled> Saddam Hussein, showed that the guerrilla war still burns> fiercely here, long after President Bush proclaimed major> combat operations over and despite a high turnout among> Iraqis in the Jan. 30 elections. As the violence persists> and as the winners of those elections continue to haggle> over a new government, the optimism from the vote is> quickly fading among ordinary Iraqis." By "it", I can only assume that you mean "reports the news." -- Trev "Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
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Paranoid Dehumanized Narcissist 23 March 2005 00:32:28 [ permanent link ]
	alicamdun@yahoo.com wrote in news:1111497067.268534.139800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/News_Release.asp?NewsRelease=2005032> 2.txt > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE> 24 TERRORISTS KILLED DURING ATTACK ON COALITION FORCES> BAGHDAD, Iraq - At approximately noon today, 24 terrorists> were killed and seven wounded when they attacked coalition> forces on the outskirts of Baghdad. Six soldiers were> injured during the attack.> The New York Times story:> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/21/international/middleeast/21iraq.html?> pagewanted=print&position= > "Details about the Salman Pak ambush were vague, but the> audacity of the insurgents, on the second anniversary of> the start of the American military campaign that toppled> Saddam Hussein, showed that the guerrilla war still burns> fiercely here, long after President Bush proclaimed major> combat operations over and despite a high turnout among> Iraqis in the Jan. 30 elections. As the violence persists> and as the winners of those elections continue to haggle> over a new government, the optimism from the vote is> quickly fading among ordinary Iraqis." So attacking uniformed soldiers is terrorism? Is anything NOT terrorism? -- Paranoid Dehumanized Narcissist mdahwoopitywoomus@iwoopitywooo.com
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Tom Enright 23 March 2005 02:44:54 [ permanent link ]
	"xyzzy" <invalid@addr.net> wrote in message news:424064e5_2@news1.prserv.net...> alicamdun@yahoo.com wrote:> http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/News_Release.asp?NewsRelease=20050322.txt>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE>> 24 TERRORISTS KILLED DURING ATTACK ON COALITION FORCES>> BAGHDAD, Iraq - At approximately noon today, 24 terrorists>> were killed and seven wounded when they attacked coalition>> forces on the outskirts of Baghdad. Six soldiers were>> injured during the attack.>> The New York Times story:>> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/21/international/middleeast/21iraq.html?pagewanted=print&position=>> "Details about the Salman Pak ambush were vague, but the>> audacity of the insurgents, on the second anniversary of>> the start of the American military campaign that toppled>> Saddam Hussein, showed that the guerrilla war still burns>> fiercely here, long after President Bush proclaimed major>> combat operations over and despite a high turnout among>> Iraqis in the Jan. 30 elections. As the violence persists>> and as the winners of those elections continue to haggle>> over a new government, the optimism from the vote is>> quickly fading among ordinary Iraqis.">> -Tom Enright Are you asserting an Army press release as the standard of objectivity? In this case, absolutely. Which story appears more objective to you? -Tom Enright
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Xyzzy 23 March 2005 18:33:01 [ permanent link ]
	Tom Enright wrote: "xyzzy" <invalid@addr.net> wrote in message > news:424064e5_2@news1.prserv.net...> alicamdun@yahoo.com wrote:>> http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/News_Release.asp?NewsRelease=20050322.txt>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE>>> 24 TERRORISTS KILLED DURING ATTACK ON COALITION FORCES>>> BAGHDAD, Iraq - At approximately noon today, 24 terrorists>>>were killed and seven wounded when they attacked coalition>>>forces on the outskirts of Baghdad. Six soldiers were>>>injured during the attack.>>> The New York Times story:>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/21/international/middleeast/21iraq.html?pagewanted=print&position=>>> "Details about the Salman Pak ambush were vague, but the>>>audacity of the insurgents, on the second anniversary of>>>the start of the American military campaign that toppled>>>Saddam Hussein, showed that the guerrilla war still burns>>>fiercely here, long after President Bush proclaimed major>>>combat operations over and despite a high turnout among>>>Iraqis in the Jan. 30 elections. As the violence persists>>>and as the winners of those elections continue to haggle>>>over a new government, the optimism from the vote is>>>quickly fading among ordinary Iraqis.">>> -Tom Enright> Are you asserting an Army press release as the standard of objectivity?> In this case, absolutely. Which story appears more objective> to you? The one by a reporter who probably talked to ordinary Iraqis and has been talking with them in Baghdad for months who wrote a news story using info he found himself instead of just repeating a press release, as opposed to the one from a PR flack for the army?
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Trent Woodruff 23 March 2005 22:46:38 [ permanent link ]
	xyzzy was cut from the Baylor football team for saying...>>Tom Enright wrote:>>> "xyzzy" <invalid@addr.net> wrote in message >>>>alicamdun@yahoo.com wrote: http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/News_Release.asp?NewsRelease=20050322.txt>>>>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE>>>>24 TERRORISTS KILLED DURING ATTACK ON COALITION FORCES>>>>BAGHDAD, Iraq - At approximately noon today, 24 terrorists>>>>were killed and seven wounded when they attacked coalition>>>>forces on the outskirts of Baghdad. Six soldiers were>>>>injured during the attack.>>>>The New York Times story:>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/21/international/middleeast/21iraq.html?pagewanted=print&position=>>>>"Details about the Salman Pak ambush were vague, but the>>>>audacity of the insurgents, on the second anniversary of>>>>the start of the American military campaign that toppled>>>>Saddam Hussein, showed that the guerrilla war still burns>>>>fiercely here, long after President Bush proclaimed major>>>>combat operations over and despite a high turnout among>>>>Iraqis in the Jan. 30 elections. As the violence persists>>>>and as the winners of those elections continue to haggle>>>>over a new government, the optimism from the vote is>>>>quickly fading among ordinary Iraqis." Are you asserting an Army press release as the standard of objectivity? In this case, absolutely. Which story appears more objective>> to you? The one by a reporter who probably talked to ordinary Iraqis and has >been talking with them in Baghdad for months who wrote a news story >using info he found himself instead of just repeating a press release, >as opposed to the one from a PR flack for the army? I find this a fascinating statement, considering the two stories. It puts your perspective into an entirely new light for me. Unfortunately, it's not a complimentary one, since you're clearly so delusional that you've forgotten what the term "objective" means. Trent Chairborne "Nine of Diamonds" Ranger ...To be a great NCO, you need three bones: a backbone, a wishbone and a funny bone.
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Trevor Zion Bauknight 24 March 2005 02:27:04 [ permanent link ]
	In article <4241b940.3281990@news.cableone.net>, woodruffs@cableone.net (Trent Woodruff) wrote: Are you asserting an Army press release as the standard of objectivity?> In this case, absolutely. Which story appears more objective> >> to you?> The one by a reporter who probably talked to ordinary Iraqis and has > >been talking with them in Baghdad for months who wrote a news story > >using info he found himself instead of just repeating a press release, > >as opposed to the one from a PR flack for the army?> I find this a fascinating statement, considering the two stories.> It puts your perspective into an entirely new light for me. So it's your perspective that an Army press release that refers to people who aren't terrorists as "terrorists" is more objective than one that is quite likely rooted in the actual experiences of a reporter? -- Trev "Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
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Trent Woodruff 24 March 2005 06:54:17 [ permanent link ]
	Trevor Zion Bauknight was cut from the Baylor football team for saying...>> woodruffs@cableone.net (Trent Woodruff) wrote: Are you asserting an Army press release as the standard of objectivity? In this case, absolutely. Which story appears more objective>>>> to you? The one by a reporter who probably talked to ordinary Iraqis and has >>>been talking with them in Baghdad for months who wrote a news story >>>using info he found himself instead of just repeating a press release, >>>as opposed to the one from a PR flack for the army? I find this a fascinating statement, considering the two stories.>> It puts your perspective into an entirely new light for me. So it's your perspective that an Army press release that refers to >people who aren't terrorists as "terrorists" is more objective than one >that is quite likely rooted in the actual experiences of a reporter? I find both to be not very objective, if you must know. But I find the reporter's version to be FAR more into the "spin this the way I want" world. As I said, it puts his perspective into an entirely new light for me. And not a complimentary one. Trent Chairborne "Nine of Diamonds" Ranger ...To be a great NCO, you need three bones: a backbone, a wishbone and a funny bone.
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Xyzzy 24 March 2005 18:39:55 [ permanent link ]
	Trent Woodruff wrote: xyzzy was cut from the Baylor football team for saying...>> Tom Enright wrote:>>> "xyzzy" <invalid@addr.net> wrote in message >>>> alicamdun@yahoo.com wrote:> http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/News_Release.asp?NewsRelease=20050322.txt>>>>>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE>>>>>24 TERRORISTS KILLED DURING ATTACK ON COALITION FORCES>>>>>BAGHDAD, Iraq - At approximately noon today, 24 terrorists>>>>>were killed and seven wounded when they attacked coalition>>>>>forces on the outskirts of Baghdad. Six soldiers were>>>>>injured during the attack.>>>>>The New York Times story:>>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/21/international/middleeast/21iraq.html?pagewanted=print&position=>>>>>"Details about the Salman Pak ambush were vague, but the>>>>>audacity of the insurgents, on the second anniversary of>>>>>the start of the American military campaign that toppled>>>>>Saddam Hussein, showed that the guerrilla war still burns>>>>>fiercely here, long after President Bush proclaimed major>>>>>combat operations over and despite a high turnout among>>>>>Iraqis in the Jan. 30 elections. As the violence persists>>>>>and as the winners of those elections continue to haggle>>>>>over a new government, the optimism from the vote is>>>>>quickly fading among ordinary Iraqis."> Are you asserting an Army press release as the standard of objectivity?> In this case, absolutely. Which story appears more objective>>>to you?> The one by a reporter who probably talked to ordinary Iraqis and has >>been talking with them in Baghdad for months who wrote a news story >>using info he found himself instead of just repeating a press release, >>as opposed to the one from a PR flack for the army?> I find this a fascinating statement, considering the two stories.> It puts your perspective into an entirely new light for me.> Unfortunately, it's not a complimentary one, since you're clearly so> delusional that you've forgotten what the term "objective" means.> I have no need to defend my perspective to you except to point out that when a press release and a newspaper story about the same thing are put side by side, I'm always going to assume the newspaper story is less biased, regardless of whether the press release is from the Army, my employer, the ACLU, or the Virginia Tech Athletic Department. I'd even assume a Fox News story is less biased than a press release from just about any organization, whether I agree with them or not. The job of a press release writer and of a reporter are not even close to similar. Perhaps if the original poster were comparing apples to apples, for example the NYT story vs. a WSJ story, he would have had a point.
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Trevor Zion Bauknight 24 March 2005 20:52:41 [ permanent link ]
	In article <IDv7qD.Cn9@asuvax.eas.asu.edu>, kennedy@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Ralph Kennedy) wrote: "the optimism from the vote is quickly fading among ordinary> > Iraqis."> Opinion. Not if the reporter was told that by ordinary Iraqis. If he had said "all ordinary Iraqis" that would be problematic. Stupid, and problematic. -- Trev "Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
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Trevor Zion Bauknight 24 March 2005 23:07:39 [ permanent link ]
	In article <1111689222.690055.198950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, alicamdun@yahoo.com wrote: But that is one word, the NYT's story's ONE PARAGRAPH contains> > > numerous editorial comments:> "audacity of the insurgents"> Possibly opinion, if so, favoring Bush's side.> Opinion. Military "audacity" implies elan, bravery> etc. No it doesn't. It implies "audacity." No such judgements were made about the American/Iraqi> troops who kicked their collective asses. Were the> GIs brave? Were they "audacious" in defense? It appears that you don't even know what the word means. "still burns fiercely"> > Probably opinion, hard to tell out of context.> > "long after President Bush proclaimed major combat operations"> Fact.> Fact, but non-sequitur. How does it not follow that the insurgency is still energized long after we were supposed to have won? -- Trev "Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
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The New York Times Does It Again

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