On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring a photo >ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim Crow laws to >require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise black voters.
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?
Matthew Hennig 12 March 2005 08:30:23 [ permanent link ]
swq22@yahoo.com wrote in news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring a>>photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim Crow>>laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise black>>voters. >
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?>
Shocking.
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The bill even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV to be able to vote. There is no downside. If you can get off your rear and fill out a voting registration, you can go and get a ID too.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig wrote:> How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The bill> even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV to be able to> vote. There is no downside. If you can get off your rear and fill
a voting registration, you can go and get a ID too.>
At this point many georgia democrats/liberals are just putting up resistance to every republican proposal in the legislature and elsewhere whether they have merit or not, and I really can't blame them. So far since the new republican house and senate have been in control they have:
1)passed an 'income-shares' bill for child support that basically slashes child support payments by an average of 50%. The sponsors of the bill were a collection of republican second wives and men who have several children to support. 2) passed a new 'secrecy in gov't act' that basically says the public has no right to know about new taxpayer funded deals to lure local business. 3) a small group of republicans actually proposed a bill to make abortion in georgia illegal except in the case of rape or incest. I'm not making this up. Apparently a few of the more sensible republicans(behind closed doors) told the bill's sponsors that the federal courts might strike down such a law and that maybe there was a supreme court decision a while back that prohibited state legislatures from taking such measures. So instead republicans passed through a bill that mandates a 24 hr waiting period for anyone wanting an abortion and mandates that the physician read a list of 'facts' about abortion to the patient, one of which is that women who have abortions are 10 times more likely to die from cancer. Apparently many georgia republican legislators are fellows at the NIH in their spare time!! 4) have proposed a bill that would make getting fingerprinted to get a drivers liscence voluntary.
At this point in georgia how could anyone blame many ga democrats if they don't even bother to consider supporting republican proposals. They are throwing so much stuff out there like the above bills that it would take days to decipher what is actually reasonable.
But as to picture ID to vote thing, I like parts of it. My problem is that a lot of elderly people(black and white) and a lot of very poor people don't have a drivers lisence. Sure, going to the DMV for the free picture ID is an option, but georgia DMV's right now are in a horrible state. That could take half a day, and 90 year olds just can't stand or sit in a DMV for half a day. Unless that process could be made much more efficient than the current proposal, the burden on people without a picture ID to get one would be high to be able to vote.
Matthew Hennig 12 March 2005 21:35:05 [ permanent link ]
mianderson@students.mcg.edu wrote in news:1110638273.712184.120490 @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>> How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The bill>> even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV to be able to>> vote. There is no downside. If you can get off your rear and fill> out>> a voting registration, you can go and get a ID too.>>
MH
<snip>
But as to picture ID to vote thing, I like parts of it. My problem is> that a lot of elderly people(black and white) and a lot of very poor> people don't have a drivers lisence. Sure, going to the DMV for the> free picture ID is an option, but georgia DMV's right now are in a> horrible state. That could take half a day, and 90 year olds just> can't stand or sit in a DMV for half a day. Unless that process could> be made much more efficient than the current proposal, the burden on> people without a picture ID to get one would be high to be able to> vote.
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait in line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things, its not too high of a burden. I'd hazard to guess that the majority of people already have IDs so requiring that the others get it isn't that big of deal. The result of having to show an ID is more secure elections. I don't see a problem with that.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have> to wait in line for a picture, not to take a test or any> of the other things, its not too high of a burden. I'd> hazard to guess that the majority of people already have> IDs so requiring that the others get it isn't that> big of deal. The result of having to show an ID is> more secure elections. I don't see a problem with that.
I don't need to show ID when I vote, just tell them my name and address and off I go to oppress the proletariat. It's wide open to fraud.
There is one school of thought that suggest that making the process of voting too easy only invites less informed or motivated voters, and who needs that? The reality is any changes to voting laws, no matter how minor, are going to result in cries of "Jim Crow" or "Bull Connor."
-Tom Enright
--> Ten of Spades> Aggee Fedayeen Chief> Supreme Ruler of the Obvious>
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got> outcoached."> - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9,
Matthew Hennig, if this gets out, the next words you say will be muffled by your own butt:
mianderson@students.mcg.edu wrote in news:1110638273.712184.120490> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>> How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The bill>>> even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV to be able to>>> vote. There is no downside. If you can get off your rear and fill>>> out a voting registration, you can go and get a ID too.>>>
<snip>>
But as to picture ID to vote thing, I like parts of it. My problem is>> that a lot of elderly people(black and white) and a lot of very poor>> people don't have a drivers lisence. Sure, going to the DMV for the>> free picture ID is an option, but georgia DMV's right now are in a>> horrible state. That could take half a day, and 90 year olds just>> can't stand or sit in a DMV for half a day. Unless that process could>> be made much more efficient than the current proposal, the burden on>> people without a picture ID to get one would be high to be able to>> vote.>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait in > line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things, its > not too high of a burden. I'd hazard to guess that the majority of > people already have IDs so requiring that the others get it isn't that > big of deal. The result of having to show an ID is more secure > elections. I don't see a problem with that.
Never, ever, underestimate the power of the AARP lobby. This bill will never pass.
Besides, politicians don't want secure elections. They're too hard to rig.
-- Daniel Seriff
Please pardon my sudden interruption. I am the voice of Hanage's heart.
Matthew Hennig 13 March 2005 00:07:28 [ permanent link ]
Daniel Seriff <microtonal@nospam.org> wrote in news:0001HW.BE58A5FA0F769C05F02845B0@news-server.austin.rr.com:
Matthew Hennig, if this gets out, the next words you say will be> muffled by your own butt:>
mianderson@students.mcg.edu wrote in news:1110638273.712184.120490>> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>> How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The>>>> bill even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV to be>>>> able to vote. There is no downside. If you can get off your rear>>>> and fill out a voting registration, you can go and get a ID too.>>>>
<snip>>>
But as to picture ID to vote thing, I like parts of it. My problem>>> is that a lot of elderly people(black and white) and a lot of very>>> poor people don't have a drivers lisence. Sure, going to the DMV>>> for the free picture ID is an option, but georgia DMV's right now>>> are in a horrible state. That could take half a day, and 90 year>>> olds just can't stand or sit in a DMV for half a day. Unless that>>> process could be made much more efficient than the current proposal,>>> the burden on people without a picture ID to get one would be high>>> to be able to vote.>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait in>> line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things,>> its not too high of a burden. I'd hazard to guess that the majority>> of people already have IDs so requiring that the others get it isn't>> that big of deal. The result of having to show an ID is more secure >> elections. I don't see a problem with that.>
Never, ever, underestimate the power of the AARP lobby. This bill will> never pass.>
Besides, politicians don't want secure elections. They're too hard to> rig.
Its not the AARP that's the main party attacking it. Its the black democrats attacking it. They want to make requiring a photo ID into a race thing.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
On 12 Mar 2005 09:54:12 -0800, alicamdun@yahoo.com wrote:
There is one school of thought that suggest that making>the process of voting too easy only invites less informed>or motivated voters, and who needs that? The reality is>any changes to voting laws, no matter how minor, are going>to result in cries of "Jim Crow" or "Bull Connor."
“In much of the South, what is so greatly feared is irresponsible, mobocratic rule, and it is a fear not easily dissipated, because it is well-grounded that if the entire Negro population in the South were suddenly given the vote, and were to use it as a bloc, and pursuant to directives handed down by some of the more demagogic leaders, chaos would ensue.” - William F. Buckley, 1965.
Matthew Hennig, if this gets out, the next words you say will be muffled by your own butt:
Daniel Seriff <microtonal@nospam.org> wrote in> news:0001HW.BE58A5FA0F769C05F02845B0@news-server.austin.rr.com:>
Matthew Hennig, if this gets out, the next words you say will be>> muffled by your own butt:>>
mianderson@students.mcg.edu wrote in news:1110638273.712184.120490>>> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>> How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The>>>>> bill even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV to be>>>>> able to vote. There is no downside. If you can get off your rear>>>>> and fill out a voting registration, you can go and get a ID too.>>>>>
<snip>>>>
But as to picture ID to vote thing, I like parts of it. My problem>>>> is that a lot of elderly people(black and white) and a lot of very>>>> poor people don't have a drivers lisence. Sure, going to the DMV>>>> for the free picture ID is an option, but georgia DMV's right now>>>> are in a horrible state. That could take half a day, and 90 year>>>> olds just can't stand or sit in a DMV for half a day. Unless that>>>> process could be made much more efficient than the current proposal,>>>> the burden on people without a picture ID to get one would be high>>>> to be able to vote.>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait in>>> line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things,>>> its not too high of a burden. I'd hazard to guess that the majority>>> of people already have IDs so requiring that the others get it isn't>>> that big of deal. The result of having to show an ID is more secure>>> elections. I don't see a problem with that.>>
Never, ever, underestimate the power of the AARP lobby. This bill will>> never pass.>>
Besides, politicians don't want secure elections. They're too hard to>> rig.>
Its not the AARP that's the main party attacking it. Its the black> democrats attacking it. They want to make requiring a photo ID into a> race thing.
Well, once they figure out how patently stupid that is, they'll be more than happy to sic the AARP on it.
swq22@yahoo.com, if this gets out, the next words you say will be muffled by your own butt:
On 12 Mar 2005 09:54:12 -0800, alicamdun@yahoo.com wrote:>
There is one school of thought that suggest that making>> the process of voting too easy only invites less informed>> or motivated voters, and who needs that? The reality is>> any changes to voting laws, no matter how minor, are going>> to result in cries of "Jim Crow" or "Bull Connor.">
“In much of the South, what is so greatly feared is irresponsible,> mobocratic rule, and it is a fear not easily dissipated, because it is> well-grounded that if the entire Negro population in the South were> suddenly given the vote, and were to use it as a bloc, and pursuant to> directives handed down by some of the more demagogic leaders, chaos> would ensue.” - William F. Buckley, 1965.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
-- Daniel Seriff
A stupid system that works the way it's supposed to is still a stupid system.
Matthew Hennig, if this gets out, the next words you say will be muffled by your own butt:
Daniel Seriff <microtonal@nospam.org> wrote in> news:0001HW.BE58EA750F86A907F02845B0@news-server.austin.rr.com:>
Matthew Hennig, if this gets out, the next words you say will be>> muffled by your own butt:>>
Daniel Seriff <microtonal@nospam.org> wrote in>>> news:0001HW.BE58A5FA0F769C05F02845B0@news-server.austin.rr.com:>>>
Matthew Hennig, if this gets out, the next words you say will be>>>> muffled by your own butt:>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait>>>>> in line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other>>>>> things, its not too high of a burden. I'd hazard to guess that the>>>>> majority of people already have IDs so requiring that the others>>>>> get it isn't that big of deal. The result of having to show an ID>>>>> is more secure elections. I don't see a problem with that.>>>>
Never, ever, underestimate the power of the AARP lobby. This bill>>>> will never pass.>>>>
Besides, politicians don't want secure elections. They're too hard>>>> to rig.>>>
Its not the AARP that's the main party attacking it. Its the black>>> democrats attacking it. They want to make requiring a photo ID into a>>> race thing.>>
Well, once they figure out how patently stupid that is, they'll be>> more than happy to sic the AARP on it.>
Perhaps. After all, the AARP agenda is the Democrat agenda. But it> seems to me that requiring proof of who you are prior to voting is a no-> brainer.
You won't see me disagreeing with that. I'm amazed that it's taken us this long to try to do anything about it.
Matthew Hennig 13 March 2005 07:12:13 [ permanent link ]
Daniel Seriff <microtonal@nospam.org> wrote in news:0001HW.BE590B0B0F8E4C11F02845B0@news-server.austin.rr.com:
Matthew Hennig, if this gets out, the next words you say will be> muffled by your own butt:>
Daniel Seriff <microtonal@nospam.org> wrote in>> news:0001HW.BE58EA750F86A907F02845B0@news-server.austin.rr.com:>>
Matthew Hennig, if this gets out, the next words you say will be>>> muffled by your own butt:>>>
Daniel Seriff <microtonal@nospam.org> wrote in>>>> news:0001HW.BE58A5FA0F769C05F02845B0@news-server.austin.rr.com:>>>>
Matthew Hennig, if this gets out, the next words you say will be>>>>> muffled by your own butt:>>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to>>>>>> wait in line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the>>>>>> other things, its not too high of a burden. I'd hazard to guess>>>>>> that the majority of people already have IDs so requiring that>>>>>> the others get it isn't that big of deal. The result of having to>>>>>> show an ID is more secure elections. I don't see a problem with>>>>>> that. >>>>>
Never, ever, underestimate the power of the AARP lobby. This bill>>>>> will never pass.>>>>>
Besides, politicians don't want secure elections. They're too hard>>>>> to rig.>>>>
Its not the AARP that's the main party attacking it. Its the black>>>> democrats attacking it. They want to make requiring a photo ID into>>>> a race thing.>>>
Well, once they figure out how patently stupid that is, they'll be>>> more than happy to sic the AARP on it.>>
Perhaps. After all, the AARP agenda is the Democrat agenda. But it>> seems to me that requiring proof of who you are prior to voting is a>> no- brainer.>
You won't see me disagreeing with that. I'm amazed that it's taken us> this long to try to do anything about it.
And unfortunately every time some kind of push for accountability is made, you have people like these Georgia Democrats, usually black, making charges of disenfranchisement and Jim Crow laws and the like. Its sad that they don't want to ensure a good, valid election and hide behind these knee-jerk excuses.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait in
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. At the two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you get in you just take a number and wait....regardless of what you are there for. Then once your number is called you are allowed to speak to someone and be assigned to another pool depending on whether you need a simple renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper or written test, etc.....Before georgia went to handing out many driv lisc renewals online or through the mail a few years ago, this initial waiting period(to even get your number called) averaged 4 hours or more at some DMV's. I don't what the DMV situation is in other states, but in georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did a series on it a while back with some pretty outrageous stories.
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem with it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be able to get in and get out in a relatively short period of time if they just need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the DMV willing to make those specific changes(or advertise them).
Matthew Hennig 14 March 2005 01:20:13 [ permanent link ]
mianderson@students.mcg.edu wrote in news:1110746323.520922.323580 @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait in>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. At the> two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you get in you> just take a number and wait....regardless of what you are there for.> Then once your number is called you are allowed to speak to someone and> be assigned to another pool depending on whether you need a simple> renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper or written test,> etc.....Before georgia went to handing out many driv lisc renewals> online or through the mail a few years ago, this initial waiting> period(to even get your number called) averaged 4 hours or more at some> DMV's. I don't what the DMV situation is in other states, but in> georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did a series on it a while> back with some pretty outrageous stories.>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem with> it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be able to> get in and get out in a relatively short period of time if they just> need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the DMV willing to> make those specific changes(or advertise them).
The last experience I had was in Indiana and the lines were very long for certain things. Just to take my test and then get the picture taken wasn't too bad.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Phillip A. Kallas 14 March 2005 01:36:43 [ permanent link ]
"Matthew Hennig" <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote in message news:Xns9618A628A84B2matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136...> mianderson@students.mcg.edu wrote in news:1110746323.520922.323580> @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait in>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. At the>> two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you get in you>> just take a number and wait....regardless of what you are there for.>> Then once your number is called you are allowed to speak to someone and>> be assigned to another pool depending on whether you need a simple>> renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper or written test,>> etc.....Before georgia went to handing out many driv lisc renewals>> online or through the mail a few years ago, this initial waiting>> period(to even get your number called) averaged 4 hours or more at some>> DMV's. I don't what the DMV situation is in other states, but in>> georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did a series on it a while>> back with some pretty outrageous stories.>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem with>> it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be able to>> get in and get out in a relatively short period of time if they just>> need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the DMV willing to>> make those specific changes(or advertise them).>
The last experience I had was in Indiana and the lines were very long for> certain things. Just to take my test and then get the picture taken> wasn't too bad.
Are you sure you weren't in, like, Mexico? I mean, we are talking about Indiana, that's just not how we do things here.
Oh, you probably bribed one of our many corrupt BMV employees. Yeah, that'll do the trick.
-- Phillip A. Kallas, Usenet's Most Eligible Bachelor
"There is no place in a fanatic's head where reason can enter" - Napoleon
Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like... your opinion man.
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait in>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. At the>two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you get in you>just take a number and wait....regardless of what you are there for.>Then once your number is called you are allowed to speak to someone and>be assigned to another pool depending on whether you need a simple>renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper or written test,>etc.....Before georgia went to handing out many driv lisc renewals>online or through the mail a few years ago, this initial waiting>period(to even get your number called) averaged 4 hours or more at some>DMV's. I don't what the DMV situation is in other states, but in>georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did a series on it a while>back with some pretty outrageous stories.>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem with>it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be able to>get in and get out in a relatively short period of time if they just>need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the DMV willing to>make those specific changes(or advertise them).
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a TERRIBLE burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two options, I'd much prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No second thoughts with regard to inconveniencing the oppressed for half of a day is something typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~! out there.
John Rogers AU Class of 1985 The Al Del Greco of Atlanta
"Subordination is the natural order: there is subordination in Heaven - Thrones and Dominions take precendence over Powers and Principalities, Archangels and ordinary foremast angels; and so it is in the Navy. You have come to the wrong shop for anarchy, brother."
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, John Rogers:> Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like... your> opinion man.
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait in>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. At the>>two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you get in you>>just take a number and wait....regardless of what you are there for.>>Then once your number is called you are allowed to speak to someone and>>be assigned to another pool depending on whether you need a simple>>renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper or written test,>>etc.....Before georgia went to handing out many driv lisc renewals>>online or through the mail a few years ago, this initial waiting>>period(to even get your number called) averaged 4 hours or more at some>>DMV's. I don't what the DMV situation is in other states, but in>>georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did a series on it a while>>back with some pretty outrageous stories.>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem with>>it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be able to>>get in and get out in a relatively short period of time if they just>>need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the DMV willing to>>make those specific changes(or advertise them).
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a TERRIBLE> burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two options, I'd much> prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No second thoughts with> regard to inconveniencing the oppressed for half of a day is something> typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~! out there.
Waiting for a few hours is just not an option if you'll lose your job, or if you live paycheck to paycheck.
But sympathy from you seems to be reserved for blastocysts and brain-dead people.
rich -- -to reply, it's hot not warm +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ \ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett / "Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world; \ than the pride that divides / when a colorful rag is unfurled."
Matthew Hennig 14 March 2005 04:16:53 [ permanent link ]
rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in news:1139k4tpf0208d5@corp.supernews.com:
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, John Rogers:>> Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like... your>> opinion man.>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait>>>> in >>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things>>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. At>>>the two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you get in>>>you just take a number and wait....regardless of what you are there>>>for. Then once your number is called you are allowed to speak to>>>someone and be assigned to another pool depending on whether you need>>>a simple renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper or>>>written test, etc.....Before georgia went to handing out many driv>>>lisc renewals online or through the mail a few years ago, this>>>initial waiting period(to even get your number called) averaged 4>>>hours or more at some DMV's. I don't what the DMV situation is in>>>other states, but in georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did>>>a series on it a while back with some pretty outrageous stories.>>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem>>>with it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be>>>able to get in and get out in a relatively short period of time if>>>they just need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the DMV>>>willing to make those specific changes(or advertise them).>
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a TERRIBLE>> burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two options, I'd much>> prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No second thoughts with>> regard to inconveniencing the oppressed for half of a day is>> something typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~! out there.>
Waiting for a few hours is just not an option if you'll lose> your job, or if you live paycheck to paycheck.>
But sympathy from you seems to be reserved for blastocysts and> brain-dead people.
The DMV is open on the weekend here.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
<mianderson@students.mcg.edu> wrote in message news:1110638273.712184.120490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>
Matthew Hennig wrote:> > How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The bill> > even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV to be able to> > vote. There is no downside. If you can get off your rear and fill> out> > a voting registration, you can go and get a ID too.> >
At this point many georgia democrats/liberals are just putting up> resistance to every republican proposal in the legislature and> elsewhere whether they have merit or not, and I really can't blame> them. So far since the new republican house and senate have been in> control they have:>
1)passed an 'income-shares' bill for child support that basically> slashes child support payments by an average of 50%. The sponsors of> the bill were a collection of republican second wives and men who have> several children to support.> 2) passed a new 'secrecy in gov't act' that basically says the public> has no right to know about new taxpayer funded deals to lure local> business.
If bribing businesses to come to town is going to be legal, then these laws are a must.
3) a small group of republicans actually proposed a bill to make> abortion in georgia illegal except in the case of rape or incest. I'm> not making this up. Apparently a few of the more sensible> republicans(behind closed doors) told the bill's sponsors that the> federal courts might strike down such a law and that maybe there was a> supreme court decision a while back that prohibited state legislatures> from taking such measures. So instead republicans passed through a> bill that mandates a 24 hr waiting period for anyone wanting an> abortion and mandates that the physician read a list of 'facts' about> abortion to the patient, one of which is that women who have abortions> are 10 times more likely to die from cancer. Apparently many georgia> republican legislators are fellows at the NIH in their spare time!!
Why is a 24 hr waiting period such a bad thing? They still get to kill the kid, just have to actually have it weigh on thier conscience for more than an hour.
4) have proposed a bill that would make getting fingerprinted to get a> drivers liscence voluntary.
Makes it VOLUNTARY? Whats wrong with this? Dont like it, dont do it.
At this point in georgia how could anyone blame many ga democrats if> they don't even bother to consider supporting republican proposals.> They are throwing so much stuff out there like the above bills that it> would take days to decipher what is actually reasonable.>
But as to picture ID to vote thing, I like parts of it. My problem is> that a lot of elderly people(black and white) and a lot of very poor> people don't have a drivers lisence. Sure, going to the DMV for the> free picture ID is an option, but georgia DMV's right now are in a> horrible state. That could take half a day, and 90 year olds just> can't stand or sit in a DMV for half a day. Unless that process could> be made much more efficient than the current proposal, the burden on> people without a picture ID to get one would be high to be able to> vote.>
Plus, it makes it harder for the dems to bus people in from elswhere to cheat.
Trevor Zion Bauknight 14 March 2005 20:41:10 [ permanent link ]
In article <Xns96196C69667B8matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>, Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?> >> >
Shocking.> >>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The bill> >> even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV> >
You answered your own question.>
And is it an undue requirement to require accountability? To require a > simple photo ID that most people will have?
No. I am suggesting, however, that just dropping by the Georgia DMV to pick up an official state ID card isn't quite the walk in the park it was made out to be. I've heard horror stories about DMV in Georgia, and I know that in SC, you should plan to use your day off work, if you have one, for that purpose.
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something like that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it if you're worried about people giving away their votes...
Then again, I'm all for a literacy test for voting. And for candidates.
-- Trev
"Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
The last experience I had was in Indiana and the lines were very long for > certain things. Just to take my test and then get the picture taken > wasn't too bad.>
rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in> news:1139k4tpf0208d5@corp.supernews.com: >
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, John Rogers:>>
Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like... your>>>opinion man.>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait>>>>>in >>>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things>>>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. At>>>>the two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you get in>>>>you just take a number and wait....regardless of what you are there>>>>for. Then once your number is called you are allowed to speak to>>>>someone and be assigned to another pool depending on whether you need>>>>a simple renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper or>>>>written test, etc.....Before georgia went to handing out many driv>>>>lisc renewals online or through the mail a few years ago, this>>>>initial waiting period(to even get your number called) averaged 4>>>>hours or more at some DMV's. I don't what the DMV situation is in>>>>other states, but in georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did>>>>a series on it a while back with some pretty outrageous stories.>>>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem>>>>with it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be>>>>able to get in and get out in a relatively short period of time if>>>>they just need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the DMV>>>>willing to make those specific changes(or advertise them).>>
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a TERRIBLE>>>burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two options, I'd much>>>prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No second thoughts with>>>regard to inconveniencing the oppressed for half of a day is>>>something typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~! out there.>>
Waiting for a few hours is just not an option if you'll lose>>your job, or if you live paycheck to paycheck.>>
But sympathy from you seems to be reserved for blastocysts and>>brain-dead people.>
The DMV is open on the weekend here.>
Is "here" Georgia?
Do no low-income poeple have jobs that require weekend work?
Randolph M. Jones 14 March 2005 22:08:44 [ permanent link ]
Matthew Hennig wrote:> swq22@yahoo.com wrote in> news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com: >
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig>><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring a>>>photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim Crow>>>laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise black>>>voters. >>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?>>
Shocking.>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder?
If it doesn't make it harder, then what's the point of doing it?
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 03:04:34 [ permanent link ]
Trevor Zion Bauknight <trev@sc.edu> wrote in news:trev-894BE1.11411014032005@individual.net:
In article <Xns96196C69667B8matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,> Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia>> >> > ? >> >> >
Shocking.>> >>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The>> >> bill even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV>> >
You answered your own question.>>
And is it an undue requirement to require accountability? To require>> a simple photo ID that most people will have? >
No. I am suggesting, however, that just dropping by the Georgia DMV> to pick up an official state ID card isn't quite the walk in the park> it was made out to be. I've heard horror stories about DMV in> Georgia, and I know that in SC, you should plan to use your day off> work, if you have one, for that purpose.
Yes, I'm sure some of the DMVs in Atlanta are like that. But again, that's what Saturdays can be used for, plus you have most of the year to get it done. Its not that difficult. If you truly want to vote, you will do your part to ensure the voting is as honest as possible.
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something like> that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it if you're> worried about people giving away their votes...
Putting the photo on it would be basically the same as the photo ID from the DMV. Where are they gonna get the photo at?
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 03:05:06 [ permanent link ]
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:4235d0ae_4@news1.prserv.net:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>
The last experience I had was in Indiana and the lines were very long>> for certain things. Just to take my test and then get the picture>> taken wasn't too bad.>>
Indiana != Georgia.>
HTH
No, but if things can be run at least semi-effectively here, they can be done that way in Georgia.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 03:06:40 [ permanent link ]
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:4235d0ea_4@news1.prserv.net:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>
rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in>> news:1139k4tpf0208d5@corp.supernews.com: >>
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, John>>>Rogers: >>>
Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like... your>>>>opinion man.>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait>>>>>>in >>>>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things>>>>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. At>>>>>the two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you get>>>>>in you just take a number and wait....regardless of what you are>>>>>there for. Then once your number is called you are allowed to speak>>>>>to someone and be assigned to another pool depending on whether you>>>>>need a simple renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper>>>>>or written test, etc.....Before georgia went to handing out many>>>>>driv lisc renewals online or through the mail a few years ago, this>>>>>initial waiting period(to even get your number called) averaged 4>>>>>hours or more at some DMV's. I don't what the DMV situation is in>>>>>other states, but in georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC>>>>>did a series on it a while back with some pretty outrageous>>>>>stories. >>>>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem>>>>>with it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be>>>>>able to get in and get out in a relatively short period of time if>>>>>they just need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the DMV>>>>>willing to make those specific changes(or advertise them).>>>
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a TERRIBLE>>>>burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two options, I'd much>>>>prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No second thoughts with>>>>regard to inconveniencing the oppressed for half of a day is>>>>something typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~! out there.>>>
Waiting for a few hours is just not an option if you'll lose>>>your job, or if you live paycheck to paycheck.>>>
But sympathy from you seems to be reserved for blastocysts and>>>brain-dead people.>>
The DMV is open on the weekend here.>>
Is "here" Georgia?
I've not been to a DMV in Georgia, so I can only relate what I know of.
Do no low-income poeple have jobs that require weekend work?
How many people do you think this effects? Now out of those people, how many of them already have photo IDs? These arguements are really just excuses to lessen the accountability and honesty of the voting process.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 03:07:38 [ permanent link ]
"Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in news:4235D32C.8050205@colby.edu:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>> swq22@yahoo.com wrote in>> news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com: >>
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig>>><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring a>>>>photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim Crow>>>>laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise>>>>black voters. >>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?>>>
Shocking.>>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? >
If it doesn't make it harder, then what's the point of doing it?
Well, it makes cheating the vote harder to do. It doesn't make honest voting much harder to do, only spend one day to actually get a photo ID, that could be good for years.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Trevor Zion Bauknight 15 March 2005 03:26:58 [ permanent link ]
In article <Xns9619B7D8C2D20matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>, Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something like> > that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it if you're> > worried about people giving away their votes...>
Putting the photo on it would be basically the same as the photo ID from> the DMV. Where are they gonna get the photo at?
From behind the preposition?
Jesus, man...from the camera.
-- Trev
"Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 03:32:28 [ permanent link ]
Trevor Zion Bauknight <trev@sc.edu> wrote in news:trev-D1BAD3.18265814032005@individual.net:
In article <Xns9619B7D8C2D20matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,> Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something like>> > that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it if you're>> > worried about people giving away their votes...>>
Putting the photo on it would be basically the same as the photo ID>> from the DMV. Where are they gonna get the photo at? >
From behind the preposition?>
Jesus, man...from the camera.
Who will take the photo? The DMV?
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Trevor Zion Bauknight 15 March 2005 03:36:24 [ permanent link ]
In article <Xns9619BC93ACD44matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>, Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something like> >> > that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it if you're> >> > worried about people giving away their votes...> >>
Putting the photo on it would be basically the same as the photo ID> >> from the DMV. Where are they gonna get the photo at? > >
From behind the preposition?> >
Jesus, man...from the camera.>
Who will take the photo? The DMV?
Well, the DMV does do voter registration here in SC. But, yeah, whoever does the voter registration. You shouldn't have to go to the freaking DMV to register to vote.
-- Trev
"Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 03:48:50 [ permanent link ]
Trevor Zion Bauknight <trev@sc.edu> wrote in news:trev-8DBFAE.18362414032005@individual.net:
In article <Xns9619BC93ACD44matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,> Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something>> >> > like that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it>> >> > if you're worried about people giving away their votes...>> >>
Putting the photo on it would be basically the same as the photo>> >> ID from the DMV. Where are they gonna get the photo at? >> >
From behind the preposition?>> >
Jesus, man...from the camera.>>
Who will take the photo? The DMV?>
Well, the DMV does do voter registration here in SC. But, yeah,> whoever does the voter registration. You shouldn't have to go to the> freaking DMV to register to vote.
And under the Georgia proposal you wouldn't have to either. You would just need a state photo ID that the DMV could provide to you.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 06:14:18 [ permanent link ]
rjones@colby.edu wrote in news:1110851267.731413.111650 @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>> "Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in>> news:4235D32C.8050205@colby.edu:>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>> >> swq22@yahoo.com wrote in>> >> news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com:>> >>
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig>> >>><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>> >>>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring> a>> >>>>photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim> Crow>> >>>>laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise>> >>>>black voters.>> >>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?>> >>>
Shocking.>> >>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder?>> >
If it doesn't make it harder, then what's the point of doing it?>>
Well, it makes cheating the vote harder to do. It doesn't make> honest>> voting much harder to do, only spend one day to actually get a photo> ID,>> that could be good for years.>
You have successfully obfuscated the point that some people might> reasonably be suspicious of laws that make it harder to vote.> Congratulations.
Is it reasonable suspicion for a law that would only require a photo ID? Honestly?
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Yeah, xyzzy <invalid@addr.net>, well... that's just like... your opinion man.
Matthew Hennig wrote:>
rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in>> news:1139k4tpf0208d5@corp.supernews.com: >>
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, John Rogers:>>>
Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like... your>>>>opinion man.>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait>>>>>>in >>>>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things>>>>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. At>>>>>the two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you get in>>>>>you just take a number and wait....regardless of what you are there>>>>>for. Then once your number is called you are allowed to speak to>>>>>someone and be assigned to another pool depending on whether you need>>>>>a simple renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper or>>>>>written test, etc.....Before georgia went to handing out many driv>>>>>lisc renewals online or through the mail a few years ago, this>>>>>initial waiting period(to even get your number called) averaged 4>>>>>hours or more at some DMV's. I don't what the DMV situation is in>>>>>other states, but in georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did>>>>>a series on it a while back with some pretty outrageous stories.>>>>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem>>>>>with it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be>>>>>able to get in and get out in a relatively short period of time if>>>>>they just need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the DMV>>>>>willing to make those specific changes(or advertise them).>>>
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a TERRIBLE>>>>burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two options, I'd much>>>>prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No second thoughts with>>>>regard to inconveniencing the oppressed for half of a day is>>>>something typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~! out there.>>>
Waiting for a few hours is just not an option if you'll lose>>>your job, or if you live paycheck to paycheck.>>>
But sympathy from you seems to be reserved for blastocysts and>>>brain-dead people.>>
The DMV is open on the weekend here.>>
Is "here" Georgia?>
Do no low-income poeple have jobs that require weekend work?
Did you know that elections are held on Tuesdays?
John Rogers AU Class of 1985 The Al Del Greco of Atlanta
"Subordination is the natural order: there is subordination in Heaven - Thrones and Dominions take precendence over Powers and Principalities, Archangels and ordinary foremast angels; and so it is in the Navy. You have come to the wrong shop for anarchy, brother."
Yeah, rjones@colby.edu, well... that's just like... your opinion man.
Matthew Hennig wrote:>> "Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in>> news:4235D32C.8050205@colby.edu:>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>> >> swq22@yahoo.com wrote in>> >> news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com:>> >>
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig>> >>><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>> >>>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring>a>> >>>>photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim>Crow>> >>>>laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise>> >>>>black voters.>> >>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?>> >>>
Shocking.>> >>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder?>> >
If it doesn't make it harder, then what's the point of doing it?>>
Well, it makes cheating the vote harder to do. It doesn't make>honest>> voting much harder to do, only spend one day to actually get a photo>ID,>> that could be good for years.>
You have successfully obfuscated the point that some people might>reasonably be suspicious of laws that make it harder to vote.>Congratulations.
Oh, some people MIGHT be suspicious. But that doesn't mean that there suspicions have any foundation in reality.
John Rogers AU Class of 1985 The Al Del Greco of Atlanta
"Subordination is the natural order: there is subordination in Heaven - Thrones and Dominions take precendence over Powers and Principalities, Archangels and ordinary foremast angels; and so it is in the Navy. You have come to the wrong shop for anarchy, brother."
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, John Rogers:> Yeah, rjones@colby.edu, well... that's just like... your opinion man.
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>> "Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in>>> news:4235D32C.8050205@colby.edu:>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>> >> swq22@yahoo.com wrote in>>> >> news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com:>>> >>
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig>>> >>><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>> >>>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring>>a>>> >>>>photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim>>Crow>>> >>>>laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise>>> >>>>black voters.>>> >>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?>>> >>>
Shocking.>>> >>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder?>>> >
If it doesn't make it harder, then what's the point of doing it?>>>
Well, it makes cheating the vote harder to do. It doesn't make>>honest>>> voting much harder to do, only spend one day to actually get a photo>>ID,>>> that could be good for years.>>
You have successfully obfuscated the point that some people might>>reasonably be suspicious of laws that make it harder to vote.>>Congratulations.
Oh, some people MIGHT be suspicious. But that doesn't mean that there> suspicions have any foundation in reality.
Just as your blindness doesn't affect the fact that their suspicions ARE founded in reality. You set the threshold far too low, there. Their suspicions are based on a foundation of decades of laws, some direct, some less so, intended to either deprive them of their vote or to dilute their vote, or reduce the power of things they are allowed to vote on (see Alabama 1901 constitution, and voting laws in the same state until the 1970's, not exactly ancient history). And polling place intimidation that continues sporadically to this day.
To say that that is no foundation in reality is to be amazingly blinded by your own ignorance or privilege. You wouldn't think a Catholic from Alabama could be so forgetful, but sometimes Alabama Catholics have a very limited sense of history.
rich -- -to reply, it's hot not warm +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ \ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett / "Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world; \ than the pride that divides / when a colorful rag is unfurled."
Yeah, rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com>, well... that's just like... your opinion man.
To say that that is no foundation in reality is to be>amazingly blinded by your own ignorance or privilege.>You wouldn't think a Catholic from Alabama could be>so forgetful, but sometimes Alabama Catholics have a>very limited sense of history.
You can be sayin' that twice again, pilgrim. Those Alabama Catholic's stink on ice.
John Rogers AU Class of 1985 The Al Del Greco of Atlanta
"Subordination is the natural order: there is subordination in Heaven - Thrones and Dominions take precendence over Powers and Principalities, Archangels and ordinary foremast angels; and so it is in the Navy. You have come to the wrong shop for anarchy, brother."
Randolph M. Jones 15 March 2005 18:05:15 [ permanent link ]
Matthew Hennig wrote:> rjones@colby.edu wrote in news:1110851267.731413.111650> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>
"Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in>>>news:4235D32C.8050205@colby.edu:>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>
swq22@yahoo.com wrote in>>>>>news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com:>>>>>
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig>>>>>><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>>>>>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring>>>>>>
photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim>>>>>>
Crow>>
laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise>>>>>>>black voters.>>>>>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?>>>>>>
Shocking.>>>>>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder?>>>>
If it doesn't make it harder, then what's the point of doing it?>>>
Well, it makes cheating the vote harder to do. It doesn't make>>
honest>>
voting much harder to do, only spend one day to actually get a photo>>
ID,>>
that could be good for years.>>
You have successfully obfuscated the point that some people might>>reasonably be suspicious of laws that make it harder to vote.>>Congratulations.>
Is it reasonable suspicion for a law that would only require a photo ID? > Honestly?
Would it be reasonable suspicion if they also required fingerprints? I don't imagine you grew up in a cultural setting where you would find it disturbing to have to go register your picture with "the authorities". Neither did I.
Note that I still haven't said I disagree with the idea. I'm just trying to look at the issue from other points of view. It doesn't often seem like you are willing to indulge in that kind of thing.
Trevor Zion Bauknight 15 March 2005 18:46:09 [ permanent link ]
In article <Xns9619BF59E2748matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>, Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something> >> >> > like that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it> >> >> > if you're worried about people giving away their votes...> >> >>
Putting the photo on it would be basically the same as the photo> >> >> ID from the DMV. Where are they gonna get the photo at? > >> >
From behind the preposition?> >> >
Jesus, man...from the camera.> >>
Who will take the photo? The DMV?> >
Well, the DMV does do voter registration here in SC. But, yeah,> > whoever does the voter registration. You shouldn't have to go to the> > freaking DMV to register to vote.>
And under the Georgia proposal you wouldn't have to either. You would> just need a state photo ID that the DMV could provide to you.
Nice. Effectively, then, you have to either go or have gone to the DMV to vote. Why not just handle it at voter registration time? What's your problem with that? Too easy?
-- Trev
"Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
John Rogers wrote:> Yeah, xyzzy <invalid@addr.net>, well... that's just like... your> opinion man.>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>
rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in>>>news:1139k4tpf0208d5@corp.supernews.com: >>>
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, John Rogers:>>>>
Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like... your>>>>>opinion man.>>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait>>>>>>>in >>>>>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things>>>>>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. At>>>>>>the two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you get in>>>>>>you just take a number and wait....regardless of what you are there>>>>>>for. Then once your number is called you are allowed to speak to>>>>>>someone and be assigned to another pool depending on whether you need>>>>>>a simple renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper or>>>>>>written test, etc.....Before georgia went to handing out many driv>>>>>>lisc renewals online or through the mail a few years ago, this>>>>>>initial waiting period(to even get your number called) averaged 4>>>>>>hours or more at some DMV's. I don't what the DMV situation is in>>>>>>other states, but in georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did>>>>>>a series on it a while back with some pretty outrageous stories.>>>>>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem>>>>>>with it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be>>>>>>able to get in and get out in a relatively short period of time if>>>>>>they just need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the DMV>>>>>>willing to make those specific changes(or advertise them).>>>>
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a TERRIBLE>>>>>burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two options, I'd much>>>>>prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No second thoughts with>>>>>regard to inconveniencing the oppressed for half of a day is>>>>>something typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~! out there.>>>>
Waiting for a few hours is just not an option if you'll lose>>>>your job, or if you live paycheck to paycheck.>>>>
But sympathy from you seems to be reserved for blastocysts and>>>>brain-dead people.>>>
The DMV is open on the weekend here.>>>
Is "here" Georgia?>>
Do no low-income poeple have jobs that require weekend work?>
Did you know that elections are held on Tuesdays?>
Yes and the polls are usually open longer hours than your typical DMV office. HTH.
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:4235d0ae_4@news1.prserv.net:>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>
The last experience I had was in Indiana and the lines were very long>>>for certain things. Just to take my test and then get the picture>>>taken wasn't too bad.>>>
Indiana != Georgia.>>
No, but if things can be run at least semi-effectively here, they can be > done that way in Georgia.>
Yer so cute sometimes
(hint: I'm not aware of decades-long history of making it hard for minorities to vote, in Indidana)
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 19:43:52 [ permanent link ]
"Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in news:4236EB9B.6010207@colby.edu:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>> rjones@colby.edu wrote in news:1110851267.731413.111650>> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>
"Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in>>>>news:4235D32C.8050205@colby.edu:>>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>
swq22@yahoo.com wrote in>>>>>>news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com:>>>>>>
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig>>>>>>><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>>>>>>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring>>>>>>>
photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim>>>>>>>
Crow>>>
laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise>>>>>>>>black voters.>>>>>>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?>>>>>>>
Shocking.>>>>>>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder?>>>>>
If it doesn't make it harder, then what's the point of doing it?>>>>
Well, it makes cheating the vote harder to do. It doesn't make>>>
honest>>>
voting much harder to do, only spend one day to actually get a photo>>>
ID,>>>
that could be good for years.>>>
You have successfully obfuscated the point that some people might>>>reasonably be suspicious of laws that make it harder to vote.>>>Congratulations.>>
Is it reasonable suspicion for a law that would only require a photo>> ID? Honestly?>
Would it be reasonable suspicion if they also required fingerprints? > I don't imagine you grew up in a cultural setting where you would find> it disturbing to have to go register your picture with "the> authorities". Neither did I.
Fingerprints at this time would not be a needed additional step in combating election fraud. I think a photo ID is an easy, logical step. If there is continued abuse and fraud found after photo IDs are implemented, then other measures could be taken. I'd be more willing to choose something like the Iraqi blue ink than a fingerprint, though.
Note that I still haven't said I disagree with the idea. I'm just > trying to look at the issue from other points of view. It doesn't> often seem like you are willing to indulge in that kind of thing.
The other side doesn't really present a rational coherent arguement against photo IDs. Instead they immediately bring out the race card. When those arguements start, its usually because they don't have a strong case supporting their position.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 19:46:47 [ permanent link ]
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:4236fc1b_2@news1.prserv.net:
John Rogers wrote:>> Yeah, xyzzy <invalid@addr.net>, well... that's just like... your>> opinion man.>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>
rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in>>>>news:1139k4tpf0208d5@corp.supernews.com: >>>>
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, John>>>>>Rogers: >>>>>
Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like...>>>>>>your opinion man.>>>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to>>>>>>>>wait in >>>>>>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other>>>>>>>>things >>>>>>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. >>>>>>>At the two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you>>>>>>>get in you just take a number and wait....regardless of what you>>>>>>>are there for. Then once your number is called you are allowed to>>>>>>>speak to someone and be assigned to another pool depending on>>>>>>>whether you need a simple renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc.,>>>>>>>take a paper or written test, etc.....Before georgia went to>>>>>>>handing out many driv lisc renewals online or through the mail a>>>>>>>few years ago, this initial waiting period(to even get your>>>>>>>number called) averaged 4 hours or more at some DMV's. I don't>>>>>>>what the DMV situation is in other states, but in georgia they>>>>>>>are very understaffed. The AJC did a series on it a while back>>>>>>>with some pretty outrageous stories. >>>>>>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem>>>>>>>with it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be>>>>>>>able to get in and get out in a relatively short period of time>>>>>>>if they just need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the>>>>>>>DMV willing to make those specific changes(or advertise them).>>>>>
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a TERRIBLE>>>>>>burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two options, I'd>>>>>>much prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No second thoughts>>>>>>with regard to inconveniencing the oppressed for half of a day is>>>>>>something typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~! out there.>>>>>
Waiting for a few hours is just not an option if you'll lose>>>>>your job, or if you live paycheck to paycheck.>>>>>
But sympathy from you seems to be reserved for blastocysts and>>>>>brain-dead people.>>>>
The DMV is open on the weekend here.>>>>
Is "here" Georgia?>>>
Do no low-income poeple have jobs that require weekend work?>>
Did you know that elections are held on Tuesdays?>>
Yes and the polls are usually open longer hours than your typical DMV > office. HTH.
So if the DMV is open until 7 or 8 pm one day a week, you'd be ok with it?
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 19:47:36 [ permanent link ]
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:4236fc94_2@news1.prserv.net:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>
Trevor Zion Bauknight <trev@sc.edu> wrote in>> news:trev-894BE1.11411014032005@individual.net: >>
In article <Xns96196C69667B8matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,>>> Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia>>>>>>>? >>>>>>>
Shocking.>>>>>>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The>>>>>>bill even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV>>>>>
You answered your own question.>>>>
And is it an undue requirement to require accountability? To>>>>require a simple photo ID that most people will have? >>>
No. I am suggesting, however, that just dropping by the Georgia DMV>>>to pick up an official state ID card isn't quite the walk in the park>>>it was made out to be. I've heard horror stories about DMV in>>>Georgia, and I know that in SC, you should plan to use your day off>>>work, if you have one, for that purpose.>>
Yes, I'm sure some of the DMVs in Atlanta are like that. But again,>> that's what Saturdays can be used for, plus you have most of the year>> to get it done. Its not that difficult. If you truly want to vote,>> you will do your part to ensure the voting is as honest as possible. >>
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something like>>>that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it if you're>>>worried about people giving away their votes...>>
Putting the photo on it would be basically the same as the photo ID>> from the DMV. Where are they gonna get the photo at? >>
You do realize that they probably won't be giving phot ids out that > easily, right? They'll probably require a birth certificate or other > proof of residency or even SSN. It will be just as much hassle as > getting a driver's license, except without the driving test.
It's called accountability. I would expect nothing less.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:4236fc94_2@news1.prserv.net:>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>
Trevor Zion Bauknight <trev@sc.edu> wrote in>>>news:trev-894BE1.11411014032005@individual.net: >>>
In article <Xns96196C69667B8matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,>>>>Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia>>>>>>>>? >>>>>>>>
Shocking.>>>>>>>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The>>>>>>>bill even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV>>>>>>
You answered your own question.>>>>>
And is it an undue requirement to require accountability? To>>>>>require a simple photo ID that most people will have? >>>>
No. I am suggesting, however, that just dropping by the Georgia DMV>>>>to pick up an official state ID card isn't quite the walk in the park>>>>it was made out to be. I've heard horror stories about DMV in>>>>Georgia, and I know that in SC, you should plan to use your day off>>>>work, if you have one, for that purpose.>>>
Yes, I'm sure some of the DMVs in Atlanta are like that. But again,>>>that's what Saturdays can be used for, plus you have most of the year>>>to get it done. Its not that difficult. If you truly want to vote,>>>you will do your part to ensure the voting is as honest as possible. >>>
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something like>>>>that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it if you're>>>>worried about people giving away their votes...>>>
Putting the photo on it would be basically the same as the photo ID>>>from the DMV. Where are they gonna get the photo at? >>>
You do realize that they probably won't be giving phot ids out that >>easily, right? They'll probably require a birth certificate or other >>proof of residency or even SSN. It will be just as much hassle as >>getting a driver's license, except without the driving test.>
It's called accountability. I would expect nothing less.>
Then quit claiming elsewhere on the thread that getting a picture ID is not significant barrier.
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 20:56:41 [ permanent link ]
"Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in news:42370CEB.4080706@colby.edu:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>> "Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in>> news:4236EB9B.6010207@colby.edu: >>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>
rjones@colby.edu wrote in news:1110851267.731413.111650>>>>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:>>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>
"Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in>>>>>>news:4235D32C.8050205@colby.edu:>>>>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>>>
swq22@yahoo.com wrote in>>>>>>>>news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com:>>>>>>>>
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig>>>>>>>>><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids>>>>>>>>>>requiring >>>>>>>>>
photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim>>>>>>>>>
Crow>>>>>
laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will>>>>>>>>>>disenfranchise black voters.>>>>>>>>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia>>>>>>>>>? >>>>>>>>>
Shocking.>>>>>>>>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder?>>>>>>>
If it doesn't make it harder, then what's the point of doing it?>>>>>>
Well, it makes cheating the vote harder to do. It doesn't make>>>>>
honest>>>>>
voting much harder to do, only spend one day to actually get a>>>>>>photo >>>>>
ID,>>>>>
that could be good for years.>>>>>
You have successfully obfuscated the point that some people might>>>>>reasonably be suspicious of laws that make it harder to vote.>>>>>Congratulations.>>>>
Is it reasonable suspicion for a law that would only require a photo>>>>ID? Honestly?>>>
Would it be reasonable suspicion if they also required fingerprints? >>>I don't imagine you grew up in a cultural setting where you would>>>find it disturbing to have to go register your picture with "the>>>authorities". Neither did I.>>
Fingerprints at this time would not be a needed additional step in >> combating election fraud. I think a photo ID is an easy, logical>> step. If there is continued abuse and fraud found after photo IDs>> are implemented, then other measures could be taken. I'd be more>> willing to choose something like the Iraqi blue ink than a>> fingerprint, though. >
So you think that election fraud is a problem but not *that* big a > problem? I'm not sure why you'd be opposed to fingerprinting. Is it> a matter of invasion of privacy or something else?
Yes, I think fingerprinting like that is more of an invasion of privacy and that there are other methods that could be equally effective without that step. However if other methods prove to be ineffectual, then I would not be opposed to it.
Note that I still haven't said I disagree with the idea. I'm just >>>trying to look at the issue from other points of view. It doesn't>>>often seem like you are willing to indulge in that kind of thing.>>
The other side doesn't really present a rational coherent arguement >> against photo IDs. Instead they immediately bring out the race card.>> When those arguements start, its usually because they don't have a>> strong case supporting their position.>
Have you ever walked a mile in anybody else's shoes?
It seems like many times anytime something comes up that a group of black legislators oppose (SS Reform, Taxes, whatever), instead of trying to make rational arguements or putting forth competing ideas, they deflect from the real problem and cry racism. Sure, racism sometimes is an issue, but not as often as some people would like. It doesn't help having people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpon piling it on either. And note that I do not mean to imply that all black legislators do this, in fact most don't, its just the vocal few.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 20:58:12 [ permanent link ]
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:42370913_2@news1.prserv.net:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:4236fc94_2@news1.prserv.net:>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>
Trevor Zion Bauknight <trev@sc.edu> wrote in>>>>news:trev-894BE1.11411014032005@individual.net: >>>>
In article <Xns96196C69667B8matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,>>>>>Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>>>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia>>>>>>>>>? >>>>>>>>>
Shocking.>>>>>>>>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The>>>>>>>>bill even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV>>>>>>>
You answered your own question.>>>>>>
And is it an undue requirement to require accountability? To>>>>>>require a simple photo ID that most people will have? >>>>>
No. I am suggesting, however, that just dropping by the Georgia>>>>>DMV to pick up an official state ID card isn't quite the walk in>>>>>the park it was made out to be. I've heard horror stories about>>>>>DMV in Georgia, and I know that in SC, you should plan to use your>>>>>day off work, if you have one, for that purpose.>>>>
Yes, I'm sure some of the DMVs in Atlanta are like that. But again,>>>>that's what Saturdays can be used for, plus you have most of the>>>>year to get it done. Its not that difficult. If you truly want to>>>>vote, you will do your part to ensure the voting is as honest as>>>>possible. >>>>
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something like>>>>>that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it if you're>>>>>worried about people giving away their votes...>>>>
Putting the photo on it would be basically the same as the photo ID>>>>from the DMV. Where are they gonna get the photo at? >>>>
You do realize that they probably won't be giving phot ids out that >>>easily, right? They'll probably require a birth certificate or other>>>proof of residency or even SSN. It will be just as much hassle as >>>getting a driver's license, except without the driving test.>>
It's called accountability. I would expect nothing less.>>
Then quit claiming elsewhere on the thread that getting a picture ID> is not significant barrier.
I don't believe it to be a significant barrier. It's really just not that hard, it just takes a little time. If someone cares enough about voting, then they can care enough to get a photo ID.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig 15 March 2005 20:58:36 [ permanent link ]
Trevor Zion Bauknight <trev@sc.edu> wrote in news:trev-ED6304.11244815032005@individual.net:
In article <1110899607.711091.38500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,> deemsbill@aol.com wrote:>
xyzzy wrote:>> > Matthew Hennig wrote:>> >
Trevor Zion Bauknight <trev@sc.edu> wrote in>> > > news:trev-894BE1.11411014032005@individual.net:>> > >
In article <Xns96196C69667B8matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,>> > >> Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>> > >>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in>> > >>>>>>Georgia ?>> > >>>>>>
Shocking.>> > >>>>>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? >> > >>>>>The bill even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia>> > >>>>>DMV >> > >>>>
You answered your own question.>> > >>>
And is it an undue requirement to require accountability? To>> require>> > >>>a simple photo ID that most people will have?>> > >>
No. I am suggesting, however, that just dropping by the Georgia>> DMV>> > >>to pick up an official state ID card isn't quite the walk in the>> park>> > >>it was made out to be. I've heard horror stories about DMV in>> > >>Georgia, and I know that in SC, you should plan to use your day>> > >>off work, if you have one, for that purpose.>> > >
Yes, I'm sure some of the DMVs in Atlanta are like that. But>> again,>> > > that's what Saturdays can be used for, plus you have most of the>> year to>> > > get it done. Its not that difficult. If you truly want to vote,>> you>> > > will do your part to ensure the voting is as honest as possible.>> > >
Maybe they should issue a voter registration card or something>> > >>like that if they're worried about fraud. Put a picture on it if>> > >>you're worried about people giving away their votes...>> > >
Putting the photo on it would be basically the same as the photo>> > > ID >> from>> > > the DMV. Where are they gonna get the photo at?>> > >
You do realize that they probably won't be giving phot ids out that>> > easily, right? They'll probably require a birth certificate or>> > other >>
proof of residency or even SSN. It will be just as much hassle as>> > getting a driver's license, except without the driving test.>>
They could throw a voting test in............>
Which raises another point...>
I have never known the DMV to fail to charge for anything. Buying a > state ID card shouldn't be necessary to exercise basic rights. They > gonna give 'em away?
The original article said yes.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like...>>>>>>>your opinion man.>>>>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to>>>>>>>>>wait in >>>>>>>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other>>>>>>>>>things >>>>>>>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another thread. >>>>>>>>At the two different DMV's here in georgia I've been to once you>>>>>>>>get in you just take a number and wait....regardless of what you>>>>>>>>are there for. Then once your number is called you are allowed to>>>>>>>>speak to someone and be assigned to another pool depending on>>>>>>>>whether you need a simple renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc.,>>>>>>>>take a paper or written test, etc.....Before georgia went to>>>>>>>>handing out many driv lisc renewals online or through the mail a>>>>>>>>few years ago, this initial waiting period(to even get your>>>>>>>>number called) averaged 4 hours or more at some DMV's. I don't>>>>>>>>what the DMV situation is in other states, but in georgia they>>>>>>>>are very understaffed. The AJC did a series on it a while back>>>>>>>>with some pretty outrageous stories. >>>>>>>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge problem>>>>>>>>with it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that people would be>>>>>>>>able to get in and get out in a relatively short period of time>>>>>>>>if they just need a picture ID verification. But I don't see the>>>>>>>>DMV willing to make those specific changes(or advertise them).>>>>>>
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a TERRIBLE>>>>>>>burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two options, I'd>>>>>>>much prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No second thoughts>>>>>>>with regard to inconveniencing the oppressed for half of a day is>>>>>>>something typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~! out there.>>>>>>
Waiting for a few hours is just not an option if you'll lose>>>>>>your job, or if you live paycheck to paycheck.>>>>>>
But sympathy from you seems to be reserved for blastocysts and>>>>>>brain-dead people.>>>>>
The DMV is open on the weekend here.>>>>>
Is "here" Georgia?>>>>
Do no low-income poeple have jobs that require weekend work?>>>
Did you know that elections are held on Tuesdays?>>>
Yes and the polls are usually open longer hours than your typical DMV >>office. HTH.>
So if the DMV is open until 7 or 8 pm one day a week, you'd be ok with > it?>
Consider how many people the DMV can process per hour, vs a poll, I probably wouldn't.
I was a pollwatcher for the 2004 general election. Before that experience I would have agreed with you. Now I don't. I mean how hard can it be to ensure that you have id, and to properly mark an opscan ballot, etc? Well, for your typical educated rfscker, not so hard. For a much larger proportion of the population that I knew, who do not deserve to be disenfranchised, it's harder than you think. not all Democrat either. It correlated more to age than to race or party affiliation.
Phillip A. Kallas 16 March 2005 01:11:52 [ permanent link ]
"xyzzy" <invalid@addr.net> wrote in message news:4236fc47_2@news1.prserv.net...> Matthew Hennig wrote:>
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:4235d0ae_4@news1.prserv.net:>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>
The last experience I had was in Indiana and the lines were very long>>>>for certain things. Just to take my test and then get the picture>>>>taken wasn't too bad.>>>>
Indiana != Georgia.>>>
No, but if things can be run at least semi-effectively here, they can be >> done that way in Georgia.>>
Yer so cute sometimes>
(hint: I'm not aware of decades-long history of making it hard for > minorities to vote, in Indidana)
I'm still wondering were this mythical semi-effective BMV is in Indiana.
-- Phillip A. Kallas, Usenet's Most Eligible Bachelor
"There is no place in a fanatic's head where reason can enter" - Napoleon
Matthew Hennig 16 March 2005 01:52:36 [ permanent link ]
"Phillip A. Kallas" <gargamel@smurf.com> wrote in news:S8ydnbZxWZtH0qrfRVn-gg@comcast.com:
"xyzzy" <invalid@addr.net> wrote in message > news:4236fc47_2@news1.prserv.net...>> Matthew Hennig wrote:>>
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:4235d0ae_4@news1.prserv.net:>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>
The last experience I had was in Indiana and the lines were very>>>>>long for certain things. Just to take my test and then get the>>>>>picture taken wasn't too bad.>>>>>
Indiana != Georgia.>>>>
No, but if things can be run at least semi-effectively here, they>>> can be done that way in Georgia.>>>
Yer so cute sometimes>>
(hint: I'm not aware of decades-long history of making it hard for >> minorities to vote, in Indidana)>
I'm still wondering were this mythical semi-effective BMV is in> Indiana.
The one in Speedway was where I got my DL at. I went on a Saturday and it ended up taking about 2 and a half hours. Yes, longer than it should have, but not that hard to do. The even had some chairs I could sit down at so I didn't have to stand.
MH (There were old people there too)
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> You're digging it round, when it aughta Be SQUARE
mianderson@students.mcg.edu wrote in news:1110638273.712184.120490>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>> How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? The bill>>> even says that you can get a free ID at any Georgia DMV to be able to>>> vote. There is no downside. If you can get off your rear and fill>> out>>> a voting registration, you can go and get a ID too.>>>
<snip>>
But as to picture ID to vote thing, I like parts of it. My problem is>> that a lot of elderly people(black and white) and a lot of very poor>> people don't have a drivers lisence. Sure, going to the DMV for the>> free picture ID is an option, but georgia DMV's right now are in a>> horrible state. That could take half a day, and 90 year olds just>> can't stand or sit in a DMV for half a day. Unless that process could>> be made much more efficient than the current proposal, the burden on>> people without a picture ID to get one would be high to be able to>> vote.>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have to wait in >line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other things, its >not too high of a burden. I'd hazard to guess that the majority of >people already have IDs so requiring that the others get it isn't that >big of deal. The result of having to show an ID is more secure >elections. I don't see a problem with that.
you should get out of indy and see what a mess smaller town DMVs are before you say that kind of thing...
-- "People who read the tabloids deserve to be lied to" - Jerry Seinfeld "Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" - Will Durant "We are drowning in information, while starving for wisdom." - E.O. Wilson "the glass is not only half full the first half was delicious" --Me To Reply: Scrape off the end bits...
Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> You're digging it round, when it aughta Be SQUARE
"Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in>news:4235D32C.8050205@colby.edu: >
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>> swq22@yahoo.com wrote in>>> news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com: >>>
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig>>>><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>>>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring a>>>>>photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim Crow>>>>>laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise>>>>>black voters. >>>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?>>>>
Shocking.>>>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? >>
If it doesn't make it harder, then what's the point of doing it?>
Well, it makes cheating the vote harder to do. It doesn't make honest>voting much harder to do, only spend one day to actually get a photo ID,>that could be good for years.
dude, I gained like 90 lbs since I turned 18...
-- "People who read the tabloids deserve to be lied to" - Jerry Seinfeld "Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" - Will Durant "We are drowning in information, while starving for wisdom." - E.O. Wilson "the glass is not only half full the first half was delicious" --Me To Reply: Scrape off the end bits...
Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> You're digging it round,> when it aughta Be SQUARE>
Yes, I'm sure some of the DMVs in Atlanta are like that. But again,>>that's what Saturdays can be used for, plus you have most of the year to>>get it done. Its not that difficult. If you truly want to vote, you>>will do your part to ensure the voting is as honest as possible. >>
wait you want a government office open on Saturday??? HEh...
And does he want the increase government spending that would require?
Matthew Hennig 16 March 2005 20:52:51 [ permanent link ]
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:42385cf5_2@news1.prserv.net:
Matthew Hennig wrote:>> xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:42372289_1@news1.prserv.net:>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:4236fc1b_2@news1.prserv.net:>>>>
John Rogers wrote:>>>>>
Yeah, xyzzy <invalid@addr.net>, well... that's just like... your>>>>>>opinion man.>>>>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>>>
rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in>>>>>>>>news:1139k4tpf0208d5@corp.supernews.com: >>>>>>>>
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, John>>>>>>>>>Rogers: >>>>>>>>>
Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like...>>>>>>>>>>your opinion man.>>>>>>>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have>>>>>>>>>>>>to wait in >>>>>>>>>>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other>>>>>>>>>>>>things >>>>>>>>>>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another>>>>>>>>>>>thread. At the two different DMV's here in georgia I've been>>>>>>>>>>>to once you get in you just take a number and>>>>>>>>>>>wait....regardless of what you are there for. Then once your>>>>>>>>>>>number is called you are allowed to speak to someone and be>>>>>>>>>>>assigned to another pool depending on whether you need a>>>>>>>>>>>simple renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper>>>>>>>>>>>or written test, etc.....Before georgia went to handing out>>>>>>>>>>>many driv lisc renewals online or through the mail a few>>>>>>>>>>>years ago, this initial waiting period(to even get your>>>>>>>>>>>number called) averaged 4 hours or more at some DMV's. I>>>>>>>>>>>don't what the DMV situation is in other states, but in>>>>>>>>>>>georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did a series on>>>>>>>>>>>it a while back with some pretty outrageous stories. >>>>>>>>>>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge>>>>>>>>>>>problem with it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that>>>>>>>>>>>people would be able to get in and get out in a relatively>>>>>>>>>>>short period of time if they just need a picture ID>>>>>>>>>>>verification. But I don't see the DMV willing to make those>>>>>>>>>>>specific changes(or advertise them). >>>>>>>>>
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a>>>>>>>>>>TERRIBLE burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two>>>>>>>>>>options, I'd much prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No>>>>>>>>>>second thoughts with regard to inconveniencing the oppressed>>>>>>>>>>for half of a day is something typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~!>>>>>>>>>>out there. >>>>>>>>>
Waiting for a few hours is just not an option if you'll lose>>>>>>>>>your job, or if you live paycheck to paycheck.>>>>>>>>>
But sympathy from you seems to be reserved for blastocysts and>>>>>>>>>brain-dead people.>>>>>>>>
The DMV is open on the weekend here.>>>>>>>>
Is "here" Georgia?>>>>>>>
Do no low-income poeple have jobs that require weekend work?>>>>>>
Did you know that elections are held on Tuesdays?>>>>>>
Yes and the polls are usually open longer hours than your typical>>>>>DMV office. HTH.>>>>
So if the DMV is open until 7 or 8 pm one day a week, you'd be ok>>>>with it?>>>>
Consider how many people the DMV can process per hour, vs a poll, I >>>probably wouldn't.>>
Yes, but the polls are one day a year, the DMV is open most days of>> the year. If it was open one day a week, that would give them over>> 50 chances to get a photo taken before the next election. If they>> just wanted the presidential election, thats almost 200 chances>> before the next presidential vote. >>
I was a pollwatcher for the 2004 general election. Before that >>>experience I would have agreed with you. Now I don't. I mean how >>>hard can it be to ensure that you have id, and to properly mark an >>>opscan ballot, etc? Well, for your typical educated rfscker, not so >>>hard. For a much larger proportion of the population that I knew,>>>who do not deserve to be disenfranchised, it's harder than you think.>>> not all Democrat either. It correlated more to age than to race or>>>party affiliation.>>
Getting a photo ID doesn't require a degree in rocket science. Do>> you really think that a photo ID requirement is enough to cause>> disenfranchisement?? >
Before my experience as a poll watcher no.>
After such experience, yes.
Then, given your experience, how exactly is a photo ID or some other way of identity verification a disenfranchising requirement?
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig 16 March 2005 20:55:38 [ permanent link ]
xyzzy <invalid@addr.net> wrote in news:42385d28_2@news1.prserv.net:
Dennis wrote:>
Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> You're digging it round,>> when it aughta Be SQUARE>>
Yes, I'm sure some of the DMVs in Atlanta are like that. But again,>>>that's what Saturdays can be used for, plus you have most of the year>>>to get it done. Its not that difficult. If you truly want to vote,>>>you will do your part to ensure the voting is as honest as possible. >>>
wait you want a government office open on Saturday??? HEh...>
And does he want the increase government spending that would require?
I just looked at the Georgia DMV website and their locations are open every Tuesday-Saturday 9 am to 5 pm.
Next.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Yeah, mianderson@students.mcg.edu, well... that's just like...>>>>>>>>>>>your opinion man.>>>>>>>>>>
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>
Seeing as people could go there any day and they only have>>>>>>>>>>>>>to wait in >>>>>>>>>>>>
line for a picture, not to take a test or any of the other>>>>>>>>>>>>>things >>>>>>>>>>>>
But that's what I was talking about earlier in another>>>>>>>>>>>>thread. At the two different DMV's here in georgia I've been>>>>>>>>>>>>to once you get in you just take a number and>>>>>>>>>>>>wait....regardless of what you are there for. Then once your>>>>>>>>>>>>number is called you are allowed to speak to someone and be>>>>>>>>>>>>assigned to another pool depending on whether you need a>>>>>>>>>>>>simple renewal, renewal for a suspended lisc., take a paper>>>>>>>>>>>>or written test, etc.....Before georgia went to handing out>>>>>>>>>>>>many driv lisc renewals online or through the mail a few>>>>>>>>>>>>years ago, this initial waiting period(to even get your>>>>>>>>>>>>number called) averaged 4 hours or more at some DMV's. I>>>>>>>>>>>>don't what the DMV situation is in other states, but in>>>>>>>>>>>>georgia they are very understaffed. The AJC did a series on>>>>>>>>>>>>it a while back with some pretty outrageous stories. >>>>>>>>>>>>
So if this legislation got through I wouldn't have a huge>>>>>>>>>>>>problem with it if the DMV made it clear to everyone that>>>>>>>>>>>>people would be able to get in and get out in a relatively>>>>>>>>>>>>short period of time if they just need a picture ID>>>>>>>>>>>>verification. But I don't see the DMV willing to make those>>>>>>>>>>>>specific changes(or advertise them). >>>>>>>>>>
Waiting for a few hours (like everybody else) is SUCH a>>>>>>>>>>>TERRIBLE burden to place on the oppressed. Between the two>>>>>>>>>>>options, I'd much prefer the higher chance of voter fraud. No>>>>>>>>>>>second thoughts with regard to inconveniencing the oppressed>>>>>>>>>>>for half of a day is something typical of the BUSHITLERS!!!~!>>>>>>>>>>>out there. >>>>>>>>>>
Waiting for a few hours is just not an option if you'll lose>>>>>>>>>>your job, or if you live paycheck to paycheck.>>>>>>>>>>
But sympathy from you seems to be reserved for blastocysts and>>>>>>>>>>brain-dead people.>>>>>>>>>
The DMV is open on the weekend here.>>>>>>>>>
>
Is "here" Georgia?>>>>>>>>
Do no low-income poeple have jobs that require weekend work?>>>>>>>
Did you know that elections are held on Tuesdays?>>>>>>>
Yes and the polls are usually open longer hours than your typical>>>>>>DMV office. HTH.>>>>>
So if the DMV is open until 7 or 8 pm one day a week, you'd be ok>>>>>with it?>>>>>
Consider how many people the DMV can process per hour, vs a poll, I >>>>probably wouldn't.>>>
Yes, but the polls are one day a year, the DMV is open most days of>>>the year. If it was open one day a week, that would give them over>>>50 chances to get a photo taken before the next election. If they>>>just wanted the presidential election, thats almost 200 chances>>>before the next presidential vote. >>>
I was a pollwatcher for the 2004 general election. Before that >>>>experience I would have agreed with you. Now I don't. I mean how >>>>hard can it be to ensure that you have id, and to properly mark an >>>>opscan ballot, etc? Well, for your typical educated rfscker, not so >>>>hard. For a much larger proportion of the population that I knew,>>>>who do not deserve to be disenfranchised, it's harder than you think.>>>>not all Democrat either. It correlated more to age than to race or>>>>party affiliation.>>>
Getting a photo ID doesn't require a degree in rocket science. Do>>>you really think that a photo ID requirement is enough to cause>>>disenfranchisement?? >>
Before my experience as a poll watcher no.>>
After such experience, yes.>
Then, given your experience, how exactly is a photo ID or some other way> of identity verification a disenfranchising requirement?
Lots of lower income people don't have such IDs, and it gets more likely when they are also older. Lots of them move frequently, so their addresses change a lot (which I'm sure in your regime would disqualify them if the address in the ID didn't match the address on the rolls, even though it's just a different trailer in the same park or some such). And lots of people are easily discouraged, if they are turned away after waiting in a long line and told to come back with a missing piece of ID or paper, they will not come back especially if there are lines (which is why we are supposed to offer these people provisional ballots which are checked later to verify no double voting or actual eligible voter) or if they are African Americans living in a state with a long history of making it hard for African Americans to vote and oh, here we go again.
Oh and btw another group of people for which ID and address problems are common because of frequent moving and a chaotic life is active duty military. Over 50% of the provisional ballots in my precinct went to active duty military men. Surely you don't want to disenfranchise them, but they would have been in your system. Really it's only the black and poor voters that people pushing this want to disenfranchise, so they'd probably write an exception for the military people.
Once again, not everyone is a relatively educated rsfc reader or doctor. But those that aren't should still be able to vote.
"Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in> news:4235D32C.8050205@colby.edu: >
Matthew Hennig wrote:>>
swq22@yahoo.com wrote in>>>news:20p43151higu8k7dludnk6ia611iahdpdj@4ax.com: >>>
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0600, Matthew Hennig>>>><matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>>>
Apparently they didn't want rules changed on voter ids requiring a>>>>>photo ID to vote. They claimed it was like bringing back Jim Crow>>>>>laws to require a photo ID. They claim this will disenfranchise>>>>>black voters. >>>>
Blacks suspicious of a bill that makes voting harder in Georgia ?>>>>
Shocking.>>>
How exactly is holding people accountable making it harder? >>
If it doesn't make it harder, then what's the point of doing it?>
Well, it makes cheating the vote harder to do. It doesn't make honest> voting much harder to do, only spend one day to actually get a photo ID,> that could be good for years.
Considering the fact that most of the "cheating of the vote" that's been done in recent years is NOT ballot-box stuffing, but is instead the opposite: selective voter roll purging, turnout suppression with police roadblocks or challengers in precincts, slasing tires on voter turnout vans, and other such methods designed to keep legitimate voters who disagree with the cheaters from voting or having their votes counted, clearly this supposed reform is barking up the wrong tree. Assuming of course an honest vote is what the advocates of this really want. Which I don't believe.
Trevor Zion Bauknight 17 March 2005 18:56:32 [ permanent link ]
In article <Xns961AA65EE7FAEmatthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>, Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:
I was a pollwatcher for the 2004 general election. Before that > > experience I would have agreed with you. Now I don't. I mean how > > hard can it be to ensure that you have id, and to properly mark an > > opscan ballot, etc? Well, for your typical educated rfscker, not so > > hard. For a much larger proportion of the population that I knew, who> > do not deserve to be disenfranchised, it's harder than you think. not> > all Democrat either. It correlated more to age than to race or party > > affiliation.>
Getting a photo ID doesn't require a degree in rocket science.
That's true. You can get one on the street that says just about anything.
-- Trev
"Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, Trevor Zion Bauknight:> In article <Xns961AA65EE7FAEmatthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,> Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:
I was a pollwatcher for the 2004 general election. Before that >> > experience I would have agreed with you. Now I don't. I mean how >> > hard can it be to ensure that you have id, and to properly mark an >> > opscan ballot, etc? Well, for your typical educated rfscker, not so >> > hard. For a much larger proportion of the population that I knew, who>> > do not deserve to be disenfranchised, it's harder than you think. not>> > all Democrat either. It correlated more to age than to race or party >> > affiliation.>>
Getting a photo ID doesn't require a degree in rocket science.
That's true. You can get one on the street that says just about > anything.
I understand you can even get press credentials at the white house under an assumed name.
rich -- -to reply, it's hot not warm +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ \ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett / "Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world; \ than the pride that divides / when a colorful rag is unfurled."
Matthew Hennig 18 March 2005 19:19:06 [ permanent link ]
rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in news:113jh5fte5qdt40@corp.supernews.com:
Minä suojelen sinua kaikelta, mitä ikinä keksitkin sanoa, Trevor Zion> Bauknight: >> In article <Xns961AA65EE7FAEmatthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,>> Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>
I was a pollwatcher for the 2004 general election. Before that >>> > experience I would have agreed with you. Now I don't. I mean>>> > how hard can it be to ensure that you have id, and to properly>>> > mark an opscan ballot, etc? Well, for your typical educated>>> > rfscker, not so hard. For a much larger proportion of the>>> > population that I knew, who do not deserve to be disenfranchised,>>> > it's harder than you think. not all Democrat either. It>>> > correlated more to age than to race or party affiliation.>>>
Getting a photo ID doesn't require a degree in rocket science.>
That's true. You can get one on the street that says just about >> anything.>
I understand you can even get press credentials at> the white house under an assumed name.
You'd have a point if Jeff Gannon had applied for them under his assumed name...
MH (But don't let me get in the way of your snark)
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Matthew Hennig 18 March 2005 22:56:57 [ permanent link ]
trev@sc.edu (Trevor Zion Bauknight) wrote in news:3a0h22F65ao2eU4@individual.net:
Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.no_junk.com> wrote:>> rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in>> news:113jh5fte5qdt40@corp.supernews.com: >>
Min? suojelen sinua kaikelta, mit? ikin? keksitkin sanoa, Trevor>>> Zion Bauknight: >>>> In article <Xns961AA65EE7FAEmatthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,>>>> Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>>>
I was a pollwatcher for the 2004 general election. Before that >>>>> > experience I would have agreed with you. Now I don't. I mean>>>>> > how hard can it be to ensure that you have id, and to properly>>>>> > mark an opscan ballot, etc? Well, for your typical educated>>>>> > rfscker, not so hard. For a much larger proportion of the>>>>> > population that I knew, who do not deserve to be>>>>> > disenfranchised, it's harder than you think. not all Democrat>>>>> > either. It correlated more to age than to race or party>>>>> > affiliation. >>>>>
Getting a photo ID doesn't require a degree in rocket science.>>>
That's true. You can get one on the street that says just about >>>> anything.>>>
I understand you can even get press credentials at>>> the white house under an assumed name.>>
You'd have a point if Jeff Gannon had applied for them under his>> assumed name...>
What about my point?
That you can get fake ids? Yes, its true. Can you suggest another method for validating the identity of the voter to ensure better integrity of the election?
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
Trevor Zion Bauknight 29 March 2005 18:47:03 [ permanent link ]
In article <Xns961D8DFFD9C19matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>, Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:
From everything I saw there were random problems at various places,> >> but small in number, not widespread. There are going to be some> >> problems in every election everywhere. You don't have problems on> >> the magnitude that you had in Washington State and Wisconsin, though.> >> Those involved thousands of people. So yes, show me the evidence> >> there was election fraud in Ohio or Florida. > >
Well, in Florida, ChoicePoint purged thousands of legitimate voters> > from the rolls (most of them minority voters) and Bush won by like 500> > votes...it doesn't take massive numbers to steal the Presidency.>
Why were the purged? Was it because there were problems with their> registrations, or they just said "This guy here is black, so lets kick> him out"?
Do you pay attention to the things you argue about, ever?
They were purged for various reasons...some had names similar to convicted felons, etc. The idea was get rid of them all and then let the legitimate voters worry about why they got purged. I'm sorry you missed this pathetic event in American history.
-- Trev
"Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
Matthew Hennig 29 March 2005 22:43:56 [ permanent link ]
Trevor Zion Bauknight <trev@sc.edu> wrote in news:trev-C9D137.09470229032005@news2-ge0.southeast.rr.com:
In article <Xns961D8DFFD9C19matthaggiescom@216.196.97.136>,> Matthew Hennig <matth@aggies.No_JuNk.com> wrote:>
From everything I saw there were random problems at various>> >> places, but small in number, not widespread. There are going to>> >> be some problems in every election everywhere. You don't have>> >> problems on the magnitude that you had in Washington State and>> >> Wisconsin, though. >> >> Those involved thousands of people. So yes, show me the evidence>> >> there was election fraud in Ohio or Florida. >> >
Well, in Florida, ChoicePoint purged thousands of legitimate voters>> > from the rolls (most of them minority voters) and Bush won by like>> > 500 votes...it doesn't take massive numbers to steal the>> > Presidency. >>
Why were the purged? Was it because there were problems with their>> registrations, or they just said "This guy here is black, so lets>> kick him out"? >
Do you pay attention to the things you argue about, ever?>
They were purged for various reasons...some had names similar to > convicted felons, etc. The idea was get rid of them all and then let > the legitimate voters worry about why they got purged. I'm sorry you > missed this pathetic event in American history.
You back a few weeks ago when this post was written I tried to do a search for info on it. All I found was links to a few far-left web sites. Not something that's likely to inspire belief that something sinister happened, especially on purpose.
MH
-- Ten of Spades Aggee Fedayeen Chief Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got outcoached." - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002
