Nelson once asked Jack Aubrey "Could you please pass the salt?"
John Rogers AU Class of 1985 The Al Del Greco of Atlanta
"Subordination is the natural order: there is subordination in Heaven - Thrones and Dominions take precendence over Powers and Principalities, Archangels and ordinary foremast angels; and so it is in the Navy. You have come to the wrong shop for anarchy, brother."
-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net
Well, look. I mean, is he gonna be able to chase us? Cause if I woke up lookin' like that, I would just run towards the nearest living thing and kill it. -- Master Shake
Nelson once asked Jack Aubrey "Could you please pass the salt?">
You know, in the movie "Master and Commander", I don't think they took the right tone with the scene where Aubrey recounts that story. In the books I would have sworn that Aubrey was dead serious proud about the great man having spoken directly to him, and the humor came from the trivial nature of what he said contrasted with Aubrey's seriousness.
In the movie, Aubrey laughed at it himself, especially when he said "And I've always tried to say the same way ever since," and dissolved into laughter.
-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net
Well, look. I mean, is he gonna be able to chase us? Cause if I woke up lookin' like that, I would just run towards the nearest living thing and kill it. -- Master Shake
Nelson once asked Jack Aubrey "Could you please pass the salt?">
Serious Naval history question: Is Trafalgar the greatest naval battle in > history? If not, what is and why?>
Bonus question: What would have happened if Britain had lost the Battle of > Trafalgar? Would Napoleon have been able to succesfully invade England?>
My vote goes for the Battle of Leyte Gulf. The Surigao Strait was probably the last great top-the-t-line-em-up-and-shoot naval engagements. Then Halsey got suckered by a Japanese feint, exposing McArthur's support fleet off of Samar, leaving a US fleet of light carriers and destroyers to fend of a Japanese fleet of heavy cruisers and battleships. Since the light carriers were little more than converted merchant ships, they had little armor. This turned out to be fortuitious, as the projectiles from the Japanese heavy cruisers merely passed through the carriers, rather than detonating.
On 22 Feb 2005 05:54:43 -0800, "Pauli G <rioroad@hotmail.com>" <rioroad@hotmail.com> wrote:
Could a case be made for the Battle of the Coral Sea or Battle of>Midway? IIRC, the Battle of the Coral Sea saved Australia from>certain invasion by Japan, whereas if the Japanese had taken Midway,>they would have used the island as an airbase and been within striking>distance of Hawaii.
They didn't have the strength to invade either Australia or Hawaii.
Charles Beauchamp 22 February 2005 19:21:21 [ permanent link ]
Phillip A. Kallas wrote:> "John Rogers" <tiger7_88@yahoo.com> wrote in message> news:4ejl11tdphe1gcv0rlt6e5kkre17fdi473@4ax.com...>> Yeah, "Kokopeli" <wnalyd@de-l33t-me.comcast.net>, well... that's just>> like... your opinion man.>>
Nelson once asked Jack Aubrey "Could you please pass the salt?">
Serious Naval history question: Is Trafalgar the greatest naval> battle in history? If not, what is and why?>
It is probably the greatest in British Naval History...but Midway is more significant in world history...because it turned the tide of WW2 leading ultimately to allied victory.
Bonus question: What would have happened if Britain had lost the> Battle of Trafalgar? Would Napoleon have been able to succesfully> invade England?
Never ever no freaking way.
-- v/r Beau
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." - Josef Stalin
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and the government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain
It is probably the greatest in British Naval History...but Midway is
more> significant in world history...because it turned the tide of WW2 leading> ultimately to allied victory.>
I'm thinking along these lines too, BUT couldn't the Battle of the Atlantic be considered equally important? It didn't involve capital ships or carriers, but if the Atlantic sea lanes had been choked off by the U-boats, then England would have starved.
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 07:21:21 -0800, "Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
It is probably the greatest in British Naval History...but Midway is more >significant in world history...because it turned the tide of WW2 leading >ultimately to allied victory.>
At the time of Midway, there already over 20 Essex ships in various stages of development/construction.
John Rogers 23 February 2005 02:48:33 [ permanent link ]
Yeah, "Pauli G <rioroad@hotmail.com>" <rioroad@hotmail.com>, well... that's just like... your opinion man.
s...@yahoo.com wrote:>> On 22 Feb 2005 05:54:43 -0800, "Pauli G <rioroad@hotmail.com>">> <rioroad@hotmail.com> wrote:>>
Could a case be made for the Battle of the Coral Sea or Battle of>> >Midway? IIRC, the Battle of the Coral Sea saved Australia from>> >certain invasion by Japan, whereas if the Japanese had taken Midway,>> >they would have used the island as an airbase and been within>striking>> >distance of Hawaii.>>
They didn't have the strength to invade either Australia or Hawaii.>
I think you're right about an actual invasion (mea cupla), but a>victory would have allowed them to harass Australia:>
The Coral Sea action resulted from a Japanese amphibious operation>intended to capture Port Moresby, located on New Guinea's southeastern>coast. A Japanese air base there would threaten northeastern Australia>and support plans for further expansion into the South Pacific,>possibly helping to drive Australia out of the war and certainly>enhancing the strategic defenses of Japan's newly-enlarged oceanic>empire.
No way possible Australia could have been driven out of the war. Them suckers love a good fight. Still do (they're in Iraq, ain't they)? You used to could say the same thing about the Canuckians until the French took over there.
John Rogers AU Class of 1985 The Al Del Greco of Atlanta
"Subordination is the natural order: there is subordination in Heaven - Thrones and Dominions take precendence over Powers and Principalities, Archangels and ordinary foremast angels; and so it is in the Navy. You have come to the wrong shop for anarchy, brother."
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:27:21 -0800, "Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
Jon Enslin I think said something similar a few months back but this is >incorrect insomuch as a Japanese air strip in the Central Pacific would >potentially have made it unpassable for the Pacific Fleet to get to the Far >East.
Huh ? You think the US Navy was ascairt of a few Bettys and Nells ?
Those carriers raided Rabaul and Truk , which were much bigger strongholds than Midway could have ever been.
On 23 Feb 2005 06:19:24 -0800, "Pauli G <rioroad@hotmail.com>" <rioroad@hotmail.com> wrote:
I think you should think of Midway as a choke point. Not so much that>some Bettys would be bombing our carriers/battlewagons as they passed,>but they could fly constant recon missions very easily out of Midway>and keep close tabs on our shipping traffic.
Dude, the Pacific is like humongous.
Also, don't forget that>Midway served as a forward submarine base for us...our subs could go to>Midway, reload and refuel, and go right back out on war patrol. The>alternative was going back to Pearl, a much much longer turn-around>time. So the loss of Midway would have hampered our submarine warfare>capabilities too. Just some food for thought and debate.
With those dud torpedoes it wouldn't have mattered much before sometime in 1943.
