Again we have a system whereby the pole sitter is not necessarily the fastest driver/car combination. Putting aside arguments for and against race fuel qualifying, there is a bigger concern.
Imagine, say, Montoya sets a blistering lap time in the first 15 minute slot. Then he puts it in the wall on his out lap. Nobody else gets anywhere close to his fantastic time, he was right on the limit and drove the best lap of his lifetime -- a truly memorable lap that will be talked about for generations, a real classic never to be beaten lap record. Yet he qualifies sixth from last. Why is that in any way desirable? OK it will mix up the grid but it's totally unfair.
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:34:46 +0100, David Green <davidjongreen@nospamfree-online.co.uk> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:54:52 +0200, "Mario1" <nema@net.hr> wrote:>
Imagine, say, Montoya sets a blistering lap time in the first 15>>
I'm hanging out for the time when someone puts the car into the wall at the esses on his 2nd hot lap at Spa. I reckon, 15 minutes will be about 5 laps there(+out lap) , so when the SC comes out and slows down everyone to enable the workers to remove the wreckage the first 5 out will be selected on everyone's one flying lap anyway.
Yeah, but that kind of thing could happen only to Montoya >>
I did say 'imagine' ! ;)>
Someone else even sang that before. We all know what happened to him.
David Green wrote:> Again we have a system whereby the pole sitter is not necessarily the> fastest driver/car combination. Putting aside arguments for and> against race fuel qualifying, there is a bigger concern.>
Imagine, say, Montoya sets a blistering lap time in the first 15> minute slot. Then he puts it in the wall on his out lap. Nobody else> gets anywhere close to his fantastic time, he was right on the limit> and drove the best lap of his lifetime -- a truly memorable lap that> will be talked about for generations, a real classic never to be> beaten lap record. Yet he qualifies sixth from last. Why is that in> any way desirable? OK it will mix up the grid but it's totally unfair.>
Tinkerty tonk,
The main issue with this - is that you're dreaming. Montoya - he's so _totally_ yesterday.
Vile Merchant 27 October 2005 06:57:34 [ permanent link ]
stephen.colbourne@comsuper.gov.au wrote:> One good feature of this new qualifying method is that if the cars> start the last session with the quantity of fuel they plan to use at> the start of the race, they will have to do as many laps as possible to> get their weight down to achieve a fast lap. This means we should see a> lot of action in this last session, although it might consist of high> acceleration followed by heavy braking, repeatedly for the first few> laps till the weight reaches an acceptable level.
I read that the cars *start* the last session with the amount of fuel they intend to begin the race with.. the fuel actually burned in this session is allowed to be replaced!
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:57:34 +1000, Vile Merchant <f1sucks@thegangof9.com> wrote:
stephen.colbourne@comsuper.gov.au wrote:>> One good feature of this new qualifying method is that if the cars>> start the last session with the quantity of fuel they plan to use at>> the start of the race, they will have to do as many laps as possible to>> get their weight down to achieve a fast lap. This means we should see a>> lot of action in this last session, although it might consist of high>> acceleration followed by heavy braking, repeatedly for the first few>> laps till the weight reaches an acceptable level.>
I read that the cars *start* the last session with the amount of fuel >they intend to begin the race with.. the fuel actually burned in this >session is allowed to be replaced!>
I'm still fuzzy on what fule load do the first and second session cars start with ? Anything ??
Again we have a system whereby the pole sitter is not necessarily the>> fastest driver/car combination. Putting aside arguments for and>> against race fuel qualifying, there is a bigger concern.>>
Imagine, say, Montoya sets a blistering lap time in the first 15>> minute slot. Then he puts it in the wall on his out lap. Nobody else>> gets anywhere close to his fantastic time, he was right on the limit>> and drove the best lap of his lifetime -- a truly memorable lap that>> will be talked about for generations, a real classic never to be>> beaten lap record. Yet he qualifies sixth from last. Why is that in>> any way desirable? OK it will mix up the grid but it's totally unfair.>>
Tinkerty tonk,>
The main issue with this - is that you're dreaming.> Montoya - he's so _totally_ yesterday.
Yes, the future is Michael Scumacher, "obviously". Doc
Andy Hawkins 27 October 2005 11:39:10 [ permanent link ]
Hi,
In article <18uvl1hi86lbohn9cqqs67fb4bfqg5hinv@4ax.com>, Da Frank<fajp@ooptushome.com.au> wrote:> I'm hanging out for the time when someone puts the car into the wall> at the esses on his 2nd hot lap at Spa. > I reckon, 15 minutes will be about 5 laps there(+out lap) , so when> the SC comes out and slows down everyone to enable the workers to> remove the wreckage the first 5 out will be selected on everyone's one> flying lap anyway.
Presumably the session would be red flagged and restarted with the correct amount of time remaining?
Phil Newnham 27 October 2005 12:10:52 [ permanent link ]
Da Frank wrote:> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:57:34 +1000, Vile Merchant> <f1sucks@thegangof9.com> wrote:>
I read that the cars *start* the last session with the amount of fuel >>they intend to begin the race with.. the fuel actually burned in this >>session is allowed to be replaced!>
I'm still fuzzy on what fule load do the first and second session cars> start with ? Anything ??
They're not allowed fuel. The fastest man to push his car round the track wins.
Vile Merchant 27 October 2005 17:33:40 [ permanent link ]
Da Frank wrote:> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:57:34 +1000, Vile Merchant> <f1sucks@thegangof9.com> wrote:>
stephen.colbourne@comsuper.gov.au wrote:>>
One good feature of this new qualifying method is that if the cars>>>start the last session with the quantity of fuel they plan to use at>>>the start of the race, they will have to do as many laps as possible to>>>get their weight down to achieve a fast lap. This means we should see a>>>lot of action in this last session, although it might consist of high>>>acceleration followed by heavy braking, repeatedly for the first few>>>laps till the weight reaches an acceptable level.>>
I read that the cars *start* the last session with the amount of fuel >>they intend to begin the race with.. the fuel actually burned in this >>session is allowed to be replaced!>>
I'm still fuzzy on what fule load do the first and second session cars> start with ? Anything ??
Cars from the first two sessions are apparently allowed to refuel and change tyres before the "race"
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 00:33:40 +1000, Vile Merchant <f1sucks@thegangof9.com> wrote:
I'm still fuzzy on what fule load do the first and second session cars>> start with ? Anything ?? >
Cars from the first two sessions are apparently allowed to refuel and >change tyres before the "race" >
Phew, that's good.
The very vague point i was trying hard to make was; if the cars are allowed to run low fuel in the first two stints, then obviously they will be allowed to refuel and pick and choose their strategy for the race. Now then, if we have a similar performance difference between the Macs and the rest, or (God forbid) Ferrari returns with a vengence, how many times will they qualify 11th and 12th, sit back and watch the top 10 shoot it out and put x amount of laps on their engines, then calmly decide on the race fuel loads for their own cars according to the competitions' performance ? Seems to me, it will be sandbagger's paradise out there.
The main issue with this - is that you're dreaming.>>Montoya - he's so _totally_ yesterday.>
Whereas Massa is so...?
.. yet to prove himself.
My opinion is that I find it surprising he was signed. No case against him - just not really one for him. He is as a strong overtaker, quick (but I'm not sure how quick), and a little inconsistent.
Ferrari do, however, have extensive knowledge of him. So .. we'll see.
But - *I'm* not dreaming of him setting the world's best qualifying lap. ;-7
DC wrote:> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:49:18 GMT, "John Briggs"> <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote:>
CatharticF1 wrote:>>
The main issue with this - is that you're dreaming.>>>Montoya - he's so _totally_ yesterday.>>
Whereas Massa is so...?>
..totally fucked. He just doesn't realise it yet...
If he is quick and consistent Ferrari are not going to put an obstacle in front of him. As Rubens proved - on the rare occasions he was truly competitive with MS, Ferrari do provide good equipment to both drivers and do not mask the ability of the number 2. When they pull the strings you can it happening.
And with MS unlikely to drive more than 1 - 2 seasons, Massa will get the chance to prove himself.
And driving for the most competitive team of the last 5 years with the man who is the most successful driver of all time, is a rare opportunity.
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 03:47:26 GMT, CatharticF1 <eferrari@heaven.net> wrote:
DC wrote:>> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:49:18 GMT, "John Briggs">> <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote:>>
CatharticF1 wrote:>>>
The main issue with this - is that you're dreaming.>>>>Montoya - he's so _totally_ yesterday.>>>
Whereas Massa is so...?>>
..totally fucked. He just doesn't realise it yet...>
If he is quick and consistent Ferrari are not going to put an obstacle >in front of him. As Rubens proved - on the rare occasions he was truly >competitive with MS, Ferrari do provide good equipment to both drivers >and do not mask the ability of the number 2. When they pull the strings >you can it happening.>
And with MS unlikely to drive more than 1 - 2 seasons, Massa will get >the chance to prove himself.>
And driving for the most competitive team of the last 5 years with the >man who is the most successful driver of all time, is a rare opportunity.
The main issue with this - is that you're dreaming.>>>>>Montoya - he's so _totally_ yesterday.>>>>
Whereas Massa is so...?>>>
..totally fucked. He just doesn't realise it yet...>>
If he is quick and consistent Ferrari are not going to put an obstacle >>in front of him. As Rubens proved - on the rare occasions he was truly >>competitive with MS, Ferrari do provide good equipment to both drivers >>and do not mask the ability of the number 2. When they pull the strings >>you can it happening.>>
And with MS unlikely to drive more than 1 - 2 seasons, Massa will get >>the chance to prove himself.>>
And driving for the most competitive team of the last 5 years with the >>man who is the most successful driver of all time, is a rare opportunity.>
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:23:14 GMT, CatharticF1 <eferrari@heaven.net> wrote:
DC wrote:>
The main issue with this - is that you're dreaming.>>>>>>Montoya - he's so _totally_ yesterday.>>>>>
Whereas Massa is so...?>>>>
..totally fucked. He just doesn't realise it yet...>>>
If he is quick and consistent Ferrari are not going to put an obstacle >>>in front of him. As Rubens proved - on the rare occasions he was truly >>>competitive with MS, Ferrari do provide good equipment to both drivers >>>and do not mask the ability of the number 2. When they pull the strings >>>you can it happening.>>>
And with MS unlikely to drive more than 1 - 2 seasons, Massa will get >>>the chance to prove himself.>>>
And driving for the most competitive team of the last 5 years with the >>>man who is the most successful driver of all time, is a rare opportunity.>>
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