How much is the track to blame...

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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > How much is the track to blame... 2 June 2005 04:07:20

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How much is the track to blame...
R E D N A L O 30 May 2005 19:51:10
	..for the way the Coca-Cola 600 played out? Looks to me like Humpy Wheeler has created a monster. There were a number of comments by announcers about how much the characteristics of the track had been changed by Wheeler. For the good? I don't think so - it was just too dang fast, and unpredictable (twitchy?); and the track coming apart in a key area didn't help much either during the race. One of the announcers made the comment that, "Humpy has created a big Bristol" (don't know if that is the -exact- quote, but that was the jest of it). DR --- Go 24-48 --------------------------- Proud Father of a US Marine --Semper Fi--
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Michael McGaha 31 May 2005 00:30:17 [ permanent link ]
	<r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:ee9m911c1ve1gk8r7pad5d18rakfd468mf@4ax.com...> ..for the way the Coca-Cola 600 played out?> Looks to me like Humpy Wheeler has created a monster. There> were a number of comments by announcers about how much> the characteristics of the track had been changed by Wheeler.> For the good? I don't think so - it was just too dang fast, and> unpredictable (twitchy?); and the track coming apart in a key> area didn't help much either during the race. One of the> announcers made the comment that, "Humpy has created> a big Bristol" (don't know if that is the -exact- quote, but that> was the jest of it).> Yeah I heard that too... you know SOMETHING has to be wrong when you set a new all-time record for caution flags. Michael
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John McCoy 31 May 2005 07:45:05 [ permanent link ]
	r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote in news:ee9m911c1ve1gk8r7pad5d18rakfd468mf@4ax.com: Looks to me like Humpy Wheeler has created a monster. I agree with you. I think there's several problems now: 1) the track was lumpy, and the grinding was intended to level the high spots. The result is that there's places (the low spots) which the grinder barely touched, and those spots have much less traction that the ground areas (hence, spin city). 2) the grinding exposed the seams and other weak spots in the pavement. Thus a lot of patchwork is needed (plus the asphalt is obviously too thin to support more grinding, so point #1 can't be corrected). 3) if you're on the optimum line the track is much faster...thus if you're trying to pass and therefor on the non-optimum line, it's become very hard to pass. This usually happens when a track gets faster, it effectively becomes "narrower" and more single-groove. Problem is, I don't see how you can fix it now, other than to repave it. And that will mean 4 or 5 seasons of single groove follow-the-leader racing, until the asphalt wears in. Incidently, a number of drivers have been quoted in various news items on the track...I don't beleive I've seen single positive comment from any driver. John
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Chuck Steak 31 May 2005 17:21:56 [ permanent link ]
	In article <Xns9666E663E2930pogosupernews@216.168.3.30>, John McCoy <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> wrote: Problem is, I don't see how you can fix it now, other than to>repave it. >John> Or maybe 'scuff' the whole surface... So it is consistent. Dan ---------------------------------------------- The biggest difference between marriage and a car battery, is that the battery has a positive side....
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Guest 31 May 2005 23:09:37 [ permanent link ]
	Chuck Steak wrote:> In article <Xns9666E663E2930pogosupernews@216.168.3.30>,> John McCoy <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> wrote:> Problem is, I don't see how you can fix it now, other than to> >repave it.> >John> > Or maybe 'scuff' the whole surface...> So it is consistent. As stated in another group, I think, like Mikey, that the track is entirely to blame - because not only did it change, it changed how the drivers raced, knowing they couldn't pass and there wouldn't be good side-by-side racing. Schrader, answering, "If you could change one thing, ...." said he'd change the sanctioning system that NASCAR uses for the tracks, so if the teams show up to race on a changed track (like Lowes this year) and the track isn't "good," they can just haul out of there. Of course, if NASCAR could say yea or nay on a track change, it would happen before race weekend. N.
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Crusader 1 June 2005 01:55:12 [ permanent link ]
	<ndooley@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> wrote in message news:1117562949.789917.275710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...> Chuck Steak wrote:> > In article <Xns9666E663E2930pogosupernews@216.168.3.30>,> > John McCoy <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> wrote:> > Problem is, I don't see how you can fix it now, other than to> > >repave it.> > >John> > > Or maybe 'scuff' the whole surface...> > So it is consistent.> As stated in another group, I think, like Mikey, that the track is> entirely to blame - because not only did it change, it changed how the> drivers raced, knowing they couldn't pass and there wouldn't be good> side-by-side racing. Schrader, answering, "If you could change one> thing, ...." said he'd change the sanctioning system that NASCAR uses> for the tracks, so if the teams show up to race on a changed track> (like Lowes this year) and the track isn't "good," they can just haul> out of there. Of course, if NASCAR could say yea or nay on a track> change, it would happen before race weekend.> N.> Seems to me NA$CAR does have control over most of the trax thru ISC. They have 12 of the 22 trax, 21 of 39 Events, & 19 of 36 Pts races. CRU
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John McCoy 1 June 2005 07:03:40 [ permanent link ]
	Chuck_Steak@nospam.com (Chuck Steak) wrote in news:iu-dnXte9-9cywHfRVn- hQ@rcn.net: In article <Xns9666E663E2930pogosupernews@216.168.3.30>,> John McCoy <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> wrote:> Problem is, I don't see how you can fix it now, other than to>>repave it. >>John>> Or maybe 'scuff' the whole surface...> So it is consistent. I'm not sure you could do that, tho. I get the impression that the grinding has opened up the seams and other thin spots, hence all the crack filler and epoxy patches. I'm not sure there's enough asphalt thickness left to let them do any more work on it. John
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Chuck Steak 1 June 2005 18:56:48 [ permanent link ]
	In article <Xns9667DF654621Dpogosupernews@216.168.3.30>, John McCoy <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> wrote:>Chuck_Steak@nospam.com (Chuck Steak) wrote in news:iu-dnXte9-9cywHfRVn->hQ@rcn.net:> In article <Xns9666E663E2930pogosupernews@216.168.3.30>,>> John McCoy <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> wrote:>> Problem is, I don't see how you can fix it now, other than to>>>repave it. >>>John>>> Or maybe 'scuff' the whole surface...>> So it is consistent.> I'm not sure you could do that, tho. I get the impression that>the grinding has opened up the seams and other thin spots, hence>all the crack filler and epoxy patches. I'm not sure there's>enough asphalt thickness left to let them do any more work on it.> John good point... my gut feeling is, if it needs paving, it will get paved. They aren't ones to flinch too badly at that sort of thing. Dan ---------------------------------------------- The biggest difference between marriage and a car battery, is that the battery has a positive side....
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Tom Duwe 1 June 2005 19:09:43 [ permanent link ]
	"Chuck Steak" <Chuck_Steak@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<Gdednahgg-wVIwDfRVn-gA@rcn.net>... <snip> good point...> my gut feeling is, if it needs paving,> it will get paved.> They aren't ones to flinch too badly at that sort of> thing.> Dan "They" in this case being Humpy and Bruton, I agree...I think Bruton was disappointed that his progressive banking didn't work on the initial design at TMS...so he re-worked it...and re-worked it...and re-worked it (along with plugging the seepage issues). Now TMS is hyped as (one of the) fastest tracks on the schedule and offers some of the best racing. Tom in Bristol...hoping he bites the bullet in Concord, too.
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Martin X. Moleski 1 June 2005 20:03:18 [ permanent link ]
	On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:09:43 CST, "Tom Duwe" <tomd88@bvunet.net> wrote: "Chuck Steak" <Chuck_Steak@nospam.com> wrote in message>news:<Gdednahgg-wVIwDfRVn-gA@rcn.net>... ... my gut feeling is, if it needs paving,>> it will get paved.>> They aren't ones to flinch too badly at that sort of>> thing. "They" in this case being Humpy and Bruton, I agree...I think Bruton was>disappointed that his progressive banking didn't work on the initial design at>TMS...so he re-worked it...and re-worked it...and re-worked it (along with>plugging the seepage issues). Now TMS is hyped as (one of the) fastest tracks on>the schedule and offers some of the best racing. Tom in Bristol...hoping he bites the bullet in Concord, too. There's obviously a black art (pun intended; you may laugh now) in paving race tracks. I have a Canadian cousing who did her engineering degree in asphalt technology. I don't think anyone knows what effect changes will have until there is a full race run on a new surface. There are always unintended consequences that don't show up in testing. Or another way to put it is that no tests simulate the full stresses of race day. There was a very, very funny segment on Inside NC this week where they showed some poor track worker struggling to decide what to do with some patches that came loose on the track. The poor man! Do you pull the loose stuff out and leave a hole in the track? Do you cut it off? What will work? Should you stop the race for an hour to do some epoxy repairs? In the event, the worker just tucked everything back as best he could and kicked it a few times. Dunno how well those spots stood up during the rest of the race. Marty
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Martin X. Moleski 1 June 2005 22:19:01 [ permanent link ]
	On 1 Jun 2005 16:40:09 GMT, ndooley@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu wrote: ... It wasn't drama so much as crashing - like a supersized Bristol. The>point is, Humpy thought he would get great racing, and he didn't. I>watch to watch racing, passing, racing, not crash, caution, crash,>caution, crash caution. It does get old--even at Bristol's night race. The first few crashes are pretty exciting. After the 13th or 14th, it's old hat. :o) 22 cautions x 5 laps each (estimated) = 110 laps under caution out of 400. ... I think Indy is boring as all get out, and so>was the 600. I used to watch Indy when I was younger--I especially enjoyed the bump days. It was the premier racing show on TV back then. I don't remember any other live racing. I once watched the ABC crew vamp for more than two hours while hoping that the rain would go away and let the track dry. They finally decided to pack it in and run the race the next day. Jim McKay always sounded a little short of breath, no matter what sport he was covering. On the rain-delay day, he was like a drowning man. I couldn't tear myself away from it. "Oh, the humanity!" The CART/IRL split ruined Indy for me. They haven't won me back yet, but I'm looking at it every year for different reasons (Robby Gordon, Tony Stewart, Danica Patrick; time of day--pre-Charlotte hour). My heart is with CART, but the IRL has the 500 and the "Indy" trademark. I don't think I've watched any CART races at all since US 500 in 1996. That's also the first year that I was involved in rasn, which helped me to pay more attention to NASCAR than I had been. Humpy has promised to do something to the track (grind>the so-far unground lines) which will probably make it worse the next>time Cup is there. I don't think we'll know what will work until we see it working. Marty
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Arclight 2 June 2005 04:07:20 [ permanent link ]
	With what Wheeler charges us for tickets--he could pave the track in gold. <r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:ee9m911c1ve1gk8r7pad5d18rakfd468mf@4ax.com...> ..for the way the Coca-Cola 600 played out?> Looks to me like Humpy Wheeler has created a monster. There> were a number of comments by announcers about how much> the characteristics of the track had been changed by Wheeler.> For the good? I don't think so - it was just too dang fast, and> unpredictable (twitchy?); and the track coming apart in a key> area didn't help much either during the race. One of the> announcers made the comment that, "Humpy has created> a big Bristol" (don't know if that is the -exact- quote, but that> was the jest of it).> ---> Go 24-48> ---------------------------> Proud Father of a US Marine> --Semper Fi-- >
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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > How much is the track to blame... 2 June 2005 04:07:20

	see also: NUMP Preseason poll Re: Trip report from Houghton		pass tests:		see also: 4to za xerj ? pipiska!!!upja4ka!!!pshli nax!!! ...

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