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Re: Engines+FP+Qual idea for the future of F1.
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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > Re: Engines+FP+Qual idea for the future of F1. 17 March 2005 02:16:25
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Re: Engines+FP+Qual idea for the future of F1.

CatharticF1 15 March 2005 08:07:15
 In article <42355d62@clear.net­.nz>, scrub@clear.net.nz says...>
1st: we're still on course for 6 race engines right (maybee 6-7-6 > by this years setup)? OK, great, but make them *race only* engines.> Allow a /seperate/ set of engines for pre-race practices (also to > be used in between-race testing) for the same duration.

I think two engines per weekend has some merit. One for all practice and
qualifying and one for the race. But each race you can use a new pair.
You then have three "cars" per team (two race, plus one test (allow > it at friday FPs for *all* teams), with three race engines for the year,> and up to another three test/FP engines.

I think just extending the amount of test sessions for each GP would be
enough without the extra drivers. The public wants to see the names that
race.
In addition, allow one pre-season engine per car. Blow that engine > and pre-season track work's over for that car and driver.

No - that won't work because the engines themselves are still being
developed. There need be no restriction there.

<snip>
Shift Saturday qaulifying to the first session of the day (fresh > Sat tyres), with unlimited laps/stops for one hour (drivers must > maintain near-race pace on in and out laps to avoid blocking), leave > final qual as is, keep the summed times.

Qualifying for an hour on the Friday and Saturday afternoons as the last
session on each day. Your fastest time from either is used for the grid.
This gives something newsworthy each day, eliminates the mess rain can
make and should never have been changed. The tyres used are your race
tyres, so there is no need to limit laps.

--
CatharticF1

"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
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Jeff York 15 March 2005 18:48:53 [ permanent link ]
 CatharticF1 <eferrari@heaven.ne­t> wrote:
Qualifying for an hour on the Friday and Saturday afternoons as the last >session on each day. Your fastest time from either is used for the grid. >This gives something newsworthy each day, eliminates the mess rain can >make and should never have been changed. The tyres used are your race >tyres, so there is no need to limit laps.

Great if it rains on Friday and is dry on Saturday.. But what it it's
the other way round? *Nobody* would turn a wheel for a wet qual
session after already recording times in the dry.

--
Jeff. Ironbridge, Shrops, U.K.
jeff@xjackfieldx.or­g (remove the x..x round jackfield for return address)
and don't bother with ralf4, it's a spamtrap and I never go there.. :)­

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Henry James, (1843 - 1916).


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F2004: 15 of 17*** 15 March 2005 19:07:21 [ permanent link ]
 On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:48:53 +0000, Jeff York <ralf4@btinternet.c­om>
wrote:>CatharticF1 <eferrari@heaven.ne­t> wrote:>>Qualifying for an hour on the Friday and Saturday afternoons as the last >>session on each day. Your fastest time from either is used for the grid. >>This gives something newsworthy each day, eliminates the mess rain can >>make and should never have been changed. The tyres used are your race >>tyres, so there is no need to limit laps.>
Great if it rains on Friday and is dry on Saturday.. But what it it's>the other way round? *Nobody* would turn a wheel for a wet qual>session after already recording times in the dry.

"Fastest time from either is used for the grid." As always, teams
would run in the wet for the feedback.

Add comment
Ian Dalziel 15 March 2005 19:15:11 [ permanent link ]
 On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:07:21 GMT, "F2004: 15 of 17*·**"
<Ron.Dennis@LyingCh­eatingSwine.com> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:48:53 +0000, Jeff York <ralf4@btinternet.c­om>>wrote:>>Catharti­cF1 <eferrari@heaven.ne­t> wrote:>>>Qualifying­ for an hour on the Friday and Saturday afternoons as the last >>>session on each day. Your fastest time from either is used for the grid. >>>This gives something newsworthy each day, eliminates the mess rain can >>>make and should never have been changed. The tyres used are your race >>>tyres, so there is no need to limit laps.>>
Great if it rains on Friday and is dry on Saturday.. But what it it's>>the other way round? *Nobody* would turn a wheel for a wet qual>>session after already recording times in the dry.>
"Fastest time from either is used for the grid." As always, teams>would run in the wet for the feedback.>

But they didn't. That was one of the reasons for changing in the first
place - totally empty tracks for all of a televised session.

What would be wrong with just using an aggregate from old-style Friday
and Saturday qualifying?
--

Ian
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F2004: 15 of 17*·** 15 March 2005 20:20:06 [ permanent link ]
 On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:15:11 +0000, Ian Dalziel
<iandalziel@lineone­.net> wrote:>On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:07:21 GMT, "F2004: 15 of 17*·**"><Ron.Denni­s@LyingCheatingSwine­.com> wrote:>
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:48:53 +0000, Jeff York <ralf4@btinternet.c­om>>>wrote:>>>Cathar­ticF1 <eferrari@heaven.ne­t> wrote:>>>>Qualifyin­g for an hour on the Friday and Saturday afternoons as the last >>>>session on each day. Your fastest time from either is used for the grid. >>>>This gives something newsworthy each day, eliminates the mess rain can >>>>make and should never have been changed. The tyres used are your race >>>>tyres, so there is no need to limit laps.>>>
Great if it rains on Friday and is dry on Saturday.. But what it it's>>>the other way round? *Nobody* would turn a wheel for a wet qual>>>session after already recording times in the dry.>>
"Fastest time from either is used for the grid." As always, teams>>would run in the wet for the feedback.>
But they didn't. That was one of the reasons for changing in the first>place - totally empty tracks for all of a televised session.>
What would be wrong with just using an aggregate from old-style Friday>and Saturday qualifying?

Compared to Australia 2005? ...Not one thing.

Add comment
Stephen 16 March 2005 06:39:12 [ permanent link ]
 Rather than having the aggregate ie just adding the times, you combine
the drivers relative position in the two sessions.

The problem with just adding times is that a wet session causes too
much difference in lap times to make up in a dry session.
Add comment
Tussock 16 March 2005 14:09:43 [ permanent link ]
 Da Frank wrote:> On 15 Mar 2005 18:39:12 -0800, stephen.colbourne@c­omsuper.gov.au> (Stephen) wrote:>
The problem with just adding times is that a wet session causes too>>much difference in lap times to make up in a dry session.

One at a time style wet qual sessions should be thrown out, if it's
wet run a free for all instead.
The weather is a relatively unknown element and i would leave that out> of any decision making on this. It's part of the show.

There's nothing inherantly wrong with a jumbled grid over the
season, but it does kinda screw over that GP if there's only one fast
car near the front like at Melbourne.
As for the aggregate system, mine would be one on steroids, where i'd> add the best and worst times <...>

Ick, so all the guys that push too hard and spin start at the back
of the grid? No thanks.

Pat Symonds had some sensible ideas about qual.
http://www.pitpass.­com/fes_php/pitpass_­news_item.php?fes_ar­t_id=23799

"/So, what solution would you propose?/
*PS:*­ Leaving aside the additional test session we ran that year, I
would like to see us revert to the 2003 timetable this season, with
qualifying on Friday and Saturday, but with aggregate times. However, I
don’t think the current format is by any means drastically wrong. To
maintain credibility, I think we will only get one chance to make
further changes to the format this year and for that reason, it will be
important not to rush into anything. We have not yet seen how the format
works with constant conditions through the weekend and it is still too
early to make a definitive judgement. There may be tweaks to be made,
but they are not fundamental revisions."


I guess if I were to go nuts; treat *all* Fri/Sat sessions as free
for all qual, one set of tyres per day, then run a seperate top 10
shootout Sunday morning on race tyres and low fuel to shuffle the leaders.
I /think/ they went with race fuel in qual to prevent the McLaren
syndrome of a top team carrying 60%+ race fuel off the front row to
victory, limiting tank size to force minimum 3 stop races would be a
better option (that's the fastest way around most tracks anyway).

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
Add comment
Ian Dalziel 16 March 2005 16:14:42 [ permanent link ]
 On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:01:57 +1100, fajp@ooptushome.com­.au (Da Frank)
wrote:
As for the aggregate system, mine would be one on steroids, where i'd>add the best and worst times and devide by 2 for each session, giving>the average qualifying performance, then add the two sessions' figures>to arrive at the final aggregate times.>ie: car a does a best of 1:10 and a worst of 1:20 in session one. Then>a best of 1:30 and a worst of 1:50 in session two. >150/2=75=1:15 for session one, 200/2=100=1:40 for session two, giving>an aggregate of 2:55.

You've missed out "take away the number you first thought of", haven't
you?
--

Ian
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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > Re: Engines+FP+Qual idea for the future of F1. 17 March 2005 02:16:25
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