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Re: Blue flag idea for the future of F1.
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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > Re: Blue flag idea for the future of F1. 19 March 2005 16:24:29

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Re: Blue flag idea for the future of F1.

Scott 14 March 2005 16:44:31
 "tussock" <scrub@clear.net.nz­> wrote in message
news:42355d66@clear­.net.nz> 2nd: change blue flag regs to...> Drivers are shown blue flags when they have a car close behind> (approx. 1 second) that is about to lap them. The slower driver must> hold his normal racing line, with no blocking or checks of any sort> (10 sec stop go penalties, and potential DQs for any unfair play by> backmarkers). If the faster car behind makes it alongside at any> point the lapped car must yeild the position by easing the throttle> and allowing the faster car back onto the racing line.

Nah, just scrap the blue flag rule altogether. If a car is a lap ahead it
should be able to pass by itself. If it can't then tough luck.


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Tussock 14 March 2005 04:01:16 permanent link ]
 
2nd: change blue flag regs to...
Drivers are shown blue flags when they have a car close behind
(approx. 1 second) that is about to lap them. The slower driver must
hold his normal racing line, with no blocking or checks of any sort (10
sec stop go penalties, and potential DQs for any unfair play by
backmarkers). If the faster car behind makes it alongside at any point
the lapped car must yeild the position by easing the throttle and
allowing the faster car back onto the racing line.

Scrapping backmarkers must not attempt to pass each other when
being shown the blue flag, they must hold the racing line until the
leaders are past /and/ they've passed the next corner.

That /should/ allow for the odd stutter-passes as leading scrappers
run through the backmarkers, and also push teams to produce car setups
that can follow through corners a bit better (a little oversteer would
help).
It also gets rid of this nonsense of backmarkers diving about in
unpredictable ways when being lapped, and will let me watch good race
drivers making basic passing moves.


Please foward this to BE as soon as possible. 8]

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.

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Mk IV 14 March 2005 18:35:03 permanent link ]
 scott <spam@spam.com> scribbled:
"tussock" <scrub@clear.net.nz­> wrote in message> news:42355d66@clear­.net.nz>> 2nd: change blue flag regs to...>> Drivers are shown blue flags when they have a car close behind>> (approx. 1 second) that is about to lap them. The slower driver must>> hold his normal racing line, with no blocking or checks of any sort>> (10 sec stop go penalties, and potential DQs for any unfair play by>> backmarkers). If the faster car behind makes it alongside at any>> point the lapped car must yeild the position by easing the throttle>> and allowing the faster car back onto the racing line.>
Nah, just scrap the blue flag rule altogether. If a car is a lap> ahead it should be able to pass by itself. If it can't then tough> luck.

Nah, why not just get rid of the backmarkers altogether...


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Ben Thomas 16 March 2005 01:36:28 permanent link ]
 Michael Burke wrote:
I think that is why we have some many great testers in F1 today but > relatively few good racers. If a fast driver is held up by a slower one > because he can't get past, well too bad. If that allows the guy following > him to get closer and attempt to pass, even better.

I agree. The best passing I've seen (although probably many years ago) was when
two cars battling for the lead have come across a back marker.

--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia
2001 manual 2.2l Holden Astra SRi - a real pleasure to drive;
Michelin Preceda - $250 each but last a lot longer than $200 tyres;
Alpine Type S speakers and amp, JVC MP3 CD playing head-unit.

Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
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F2004: 15 of 17*** 16 March 2005 02:27:19 permanent link ]
 On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:29:38 +0000, Pete Fenelon <pete@fenelon.com>
wrote:>scott <spam@spam.com> wrote:>> IMO, the way to fix this would be to make the points scale more non-linear, >> give the drivers a much bigger incentive to overtake. Like:>>
Get rid of points entirely. Count the title on wins, then use second>places for a tie-break, and so on. Gives it a certain Darwinian beauty,>and gets rid of the current pathetic New Labour/Blairite "let's give>the kids on the short bus points for turning up" crap that "keeps the>title alive" by devaluing attainment.

...Heretic. They'll burn you alive for that one, they will.

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Ian Dalziel 16 March 2005 02:48:45 permanent link ]
 On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:29:38 +0000, Pete Fenelon <pete@fenelon.com>
wrote:
scott <spam@spam.com> wrote:>> IMO, the way to fix this would be to make the points scale more non-linear, >> give the drivers a much bigger incentive to overtake. Like:>>
Get rid of points entirely. Count the title on wins, then use second>places for a tie-break, and so on.

AOL.
and gets rid of the current pathetic New Labour/Blairite

You ARE Nigel Roebuck AICMFP.
--

Ian
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Paul-B 16 March 2005 03:47:07 permanent link ]
 Pete Fenelon wrote:
and gets rid of the current pathetic New Labour/Blairite "let's give> the kids on the short bus points for turning up" crap that "keeps the> title alive" by devaluing attainment.


How about replacing that with the disgusting Margaret Thatcher crap of
"let the richest man win"

--
Paul-B
The original and the best
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Phil Newnham 16 March 2005 04:04:48 permanent link ]
 Paul-B wrote:> Pete Fenelon wrote:>
and gets rid of the current pathetic New Labour/Blairite "let's give>>the kids on the short bus points for turning up" crap that "keeps the>>title alive" by devaluing attainment.>
How about replacing that with the disgusting Margaret Thatcher crap of> "let the richest man win"

Plus ça change...

--
Phil

http://www.usefilm.­com/photographer/313­07.html
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Ts 16 March 2005 06:53:30 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:44:31 +0000, scott wrote:
"tussock" <scrub@clear.net.nz­> wrote in message> news:42355d66@clear­.net.nz>> 2nd: change blue flag regs to...>> Drivers are shown blue flags when they have a car close behind>> (approx. 1 second) that is about to lap them. The slower driver must>> hold his normal racing line, with no blocking or checks of any sort>> (10 sec stop go penalties, and potential DQs for any unfair play by>> backmarkers). If the faster car behind makes it alongside at any>> point the lapped car must yeild the position by easing the throttle>> and allowing the faster car back onto the racing line.>
Nah, just scrap the blue flag rule altogether. If a car is a lap ahead it > should be able to pass by itself. If it can't then tough luck.

Great idea. That way, we get to watch the Driver's Parade for an
additional 2 hours.

-ts

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Paul-B 16 March 2005 11:28:26 permanent link ]
 Pete Fenelon wrote:
F1 is a lost cause.


So why do we still watch it, why are we still here?

--
Paul-B
The original and the best
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Tussock 16 March 2005 12:36:42 permanent link ]
 Ben Thomas wrote:> Michael Burke wrote:>
I think that is why we have some many great testers in F1 today but >> relatively few good racers. If a fast driver is held up by a slower >> one because he can't get past, well too bad. If that allows the guy >> following him to get closer and attempt to pass, even better.>
I agree. The best passing I've seen (although probably many years ago) > was when two cars battling for the lead have come across a back marker.

Montoya taking a Ferrari into spoon after lapping a Jordon,
Hakkinen taking MS for the lead into les combes past a BAR. Oh, plus
that fucking crap with a dying MS squeezing Montoya off line to let
Rubins into the lead through NGK; should've DQ'd the both of them.

Also, Webber nearly got Coulthard after he touched a Minardi
through turn 5 last week, DC put him on the grass and Mark isn't amused
(he might have held onto 2nd if he'd got past then).

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
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Tussock 16 March 2005 12:50:06 permanent link ]
 Ian Dalziel wrote:> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:29:38 +0000, Pete Fenelon <pete@fenelon.com>>­ wrote:>
scott <spam@spam.com> wrote:>>
IMO, the way to fix this would be to make the points scale more non-linear, >>>give the drivers a much bigger incentive to overtake. Like:>>
Get rid of points entirely. Count the title on wins, then use second>>places for a tie-break, and so on.>
AOL.

Pfft. 9-6-4-3-2-1, +1 for pole. Bestest driver wins every year with
that, which is how it should be.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
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Graham Hodgson 16 March 2005 13:07:36 permanent link ]
 Paul-B wrote:> Pete Fenelon wrote:>
F1 is a lost cause.>
So why do we still watch it, why are we still here?>

Morbid curiosity?

Cheers
Graham

--
Make a little birdhouse in your soul.
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Thor 16 March 2005 18:57:30 permanent link ]
 Or like I alwys say: each position doubles the points. In decimals:

1 1
2 0.5
3 0.25
4 0.125

and so on.. Problem : you have to get used to decimal points and use
exponetial notaion..:)­
--
Thor -- Stockholm -- Sverige
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Geoff May 16 March 2005 21:55:03 permanent link ]
 Thor wrote:> Or like I alwys say: each position doubles the points. In decimals:>
1 1> 2 0.5> 3 0.25> 4 0.125>
and so on.. Problem : you have to get used to decimal points and use> exponetial notaion..:)­

Points for the top 10 places:
http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/glibs/seasapn­t.php?seas=2005&apnt­=512,256,128,64,32,1­6,8,4,2,1,f0,p0,c1

Points for the top 8 places:
http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/glibs/seasapn­t.php?seas=2005&apnt­=128,64,32,16,8,4,2,­1,f0,p0,c1

Special for you ;-)­

MfG

Geoff.

--
Unofficial F1 Database: http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/
Update: 15th March, 2005
USENET Email address is a spam trap, send Emails to address in the DB
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Captain 16 March 2005 23:00:10 permanent link ]
 tussock wrote:
Montoya taking a Ferrari into spoon after lapping a Jordon, Hakkinen> taking MS for the lead into les combes past a BAR. Oh, plus that fucking > crap with a dying MS squeezing Montoya off line to let Rubins into the > lead through NGK; should've DQ'd the both of them.

Wasn't that MS on RS letting Rubens into the lead? When MS pulled that
move on Ralf I said to myself, "on your own brother? that's cold...."

--captain
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Tussock 17 March 2005 12:41:24 permanent link ]
 captain wrote:> tussock wrote:>> Montoya taking a Ferrari into spoon after lapping a Jordon, Hakkinen>> taking MS for the lead into les combes past a BAR. Oh, plus that >> fucking crap with a dying MS squeezing Montoya off line to let Rubins >> into the lead through NGK; should've DQ'd the both of them.>
Wasn't that MS on RS letting Rubens into the lead? When MS pulled that > move on Ralf I said to myself, "on your own brother? that's cold...."

Hmm, quite right, way back in 2000, memories faded, JPM wasn't even
racing yet. Hell, it was at Spain (La Caixa, Banc Sabadel) instead of
Nurburgring too: and he only let Rubins into 3rd.
At least I got the cars right. <sigh> It was still an exeptionally
unsporting thing to do, even if it was genius.

New rule suggestion: FIA should install random slow leak valves in
competitors tyres. 8]

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
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Angel Gutierrez 17 March 2005 23:30:10 permanent link ]
 Geoff May wrote:> Points for the top 10 places: >http://glibs.ssmmd­d.co.uk/glibs/seasap­nt.php?seas=2005&apn­t=512,256,128,64,32,­16,8,4,2,1,f0,p0,c1>­ Points for the top 8 places:>http://glib­s.ssmmdd.co.uk/glibs­/seasapnt.php?seas=2­005&apnt=128,64,32,1­6,8,4,2,1,f0,p0,c1> Special for you ;-)­>
Ohhh.. that's great! I love it. It handles fractional numbers too... That'
mine:

http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/glibs/seasapn­t.php?seas=2005&apnt­=1,0.5,0.25,0.125,0.­0625,0.03125,0.01562­5,0.0078125,0.003906­25,0.001953125,0.000­9765625,0.0004882812­,0.0002441406,0.0001­220703,0.0000610352,­0.0000305176,0.00001­52588,0.0000076294,0­.0000038147,0.000001­9073,f0,p0,c1

with the result that can be seen. And as a complete year, let's try last
year:

http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/glibs/seasapn­t.php?seas=2004&apnt­=1,0.5,0.25,0.125,0.­0625,0.03125,0.01562­5,0.0078125,0.003906­25,0.001953125,0.000­9765625,0.0004882812­,0.0002441406,0.0001­220703,0.0000610352,­0.0000305176,0.00001­52588,0.0000076294,0­.0000038147,0.000001­9073,f0,p0,c1

I think it shows MSch dominace over all, RB included clearer than the
offical point system (the 2002 shows the same). In 2003, the binary system
talks about Raikkonen needing about 2 more victorys to with the
championship, showing the importance of the MSch 6 wins.

The systems is based on 'perfection' and gets down from that: a perfect race
(win, because is the only that matters, it is the only thing those racers
are there for) is 1 point, and you get the half each time you step down
from that, a perfect season would be 17/18/19 points, so seasons can be
easily compared, dividing for the number of races. One position los halves
your score.

One good thing about going from 1 point downwards is that you do not depend
on the number of cars racing (The GLIBS shoudl allow to point more than 20
drivers..:D­ ), but do depend on the number of cars in front. All get points
so it is not the same to finish last in 11th postion than in 17th.

Also, it we want to increase the paasing, the gaing or loosing postions, we
ca always go further and try a ternary sysmem (1, 0.33333, 0.11111,...) or
quaternary (1., 0.25, 0.02125,....).
--
Angel Gutierrez Rodriguez -- Mieres del Camino -- Asturias -- Spain
(Former Thor)
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Geoff May 18 March 2005 00:58:27 permanent link ]
 Angel Gutierrez wrote:> Geoff May wrote:>
Ohhh.. that's great! I love it. It handles fractional numbers too... That'> mine:>
with the result that can be seen. And as a complete year, let's try last> year:>

Not only a long link but you need a very wide screen to view the
results... ;-)­
I think it shows MSch dominace over all, RB included clearer than the> offical point system (the 2002 shows the same). In 2003, the binary system> talks about Raikkonen needing about 2 more victorys to with the> championship, showing the importance of the MSch 6 wins.>
The systems is based on 'perfection' and gets down from that: a perfect race> (win, because is the only that matters, it is the only thing those racers> are there for) is 1 point, and you get the half each time you step down> from that, a perfect season would be 17/18/19 points, so seasons can be> easily compared, dividing for the number of races. One position los halves> your score.>
One good thing about going from 1 point downwards is that you do not depend> on the number of cars racing (The GLIBS shoudl allow to point more than 20> drivers..:D­ ), but do depend on the number of cars in front. All get points> so it is not the same to finish last in 11th postion than in 17th.

I stopped at 20 'cos there are very few drivers who were classified in
lower positions. Excluding the Indy 500 races, there were only the
following races where a driver was classified 20th or lower:

http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/glibs/racersl­t.php?race=20
http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/glibs/racersl­t.php?race=278
http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/glibs/racersl­t.php?race=490
http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/glibs/racersl­t.php?race=516

Also, I restricted the alternate points to classified cars only. I tried
working an easy method of classifying the cars like the Indy races,
(i.e. all cars that start are classified), but I had lots of trouble
with over-loading the database. I'll look into doing that again in the
future sometime.
Also, it we want to increase the paasing, the gaing or loosing postions, we> ca always go further and try a ternary sysmem (1, 0.33333, 0.11111,...) or> quaternary (1., 0.25, 0.02125,....).

If you turn that round and start of with 20th = 1, 19th = 3, 18th = 9
etc. it is easier and you don't need to muck around with rounding
problems. (Or 20th = 1, 19th = 4, 18th = 16 etc.)

MfG

Geoff.

--
Unofficial F1 Database: http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/
Update: 15th March, 2005
USENET Email address is a spam trap, send Emails to address in the DB
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Angel Gutierrez 18 March 2005 18:51:22 permanent link ]
 Geoff May wrote:
I stopped at 20 'cos there are very few drivers who were classified in>
That's true.. I was just pointing that because there wcoudl happend teh
remote situation on 11 teams a no DNF inteh future.. (what a wish!) and to
compare with other years where that happened..
Also, I restricted the alternate points to classified cars only. I tried>
That's what I used too in some spreadsheets I did to try the scheme. My own
opinition is that everybody crossing the finish line showld be rewarded
(over the ones not finishing).
If you turn that round and start of with 20th = 1, 19th = 3, 18th = 9> etc. it is easier and you don't need to muck around with rounding> problems. (Or 20th = 1, 19th = 4, 18th = 16 etc.)>
True.. the problem is that you en with really huge numbers... we should work
with log(n) then...:D­
--
Angel Gutierrez Rodriguez -- Mieres del Camino -- Asturias --Spain
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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > Re: Blue flag idea for the future of F1. 19 March 2005 16:24:29

see also:
2006 - 11 - FRA - Practice 2
2006 - 11 - FRA - Practice 3
pass tests:
see also:
4to za xerj ?
pipiska!!!upja4ka!!!pshli nax!!!
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