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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > an interesting quote 23 March 2005 21:15:54

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an interesting quote
John McCoy 23 March 2005 07:32:17
	Here's one that Cru seems to have missed (from FoxSports, via Ron Felix's site): Too Many Rules Says Roush Jack Roush says NASCAR's rules have taken creativity out of racing. "These cars are getting more like IROC cars from year to year to year," Roush says. Seems to me like I agree with Jack on this one John
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Martin X. Moleski 23 March 2005 08:25:18 [ permanent link ]
	On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:32:17 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> wrote: ... "These >cars are getting more like IROC cars from year to year to year," Roush >says. Seems to me like I agree with Jack on this one I doubt NASCAR will reverse the trend. The Car of Tomorrow will put the "stock" back into NASCAR's formula: NASCAR will issue more and more "stock" parts that cannot be modified by the teams. If the trend continues, NASCAR might end up selling boxed cars. All the teams will be able to do is install their own seats, steering wheels, and graphics. I know it goes against the rebel roots of NASCAR, but it may be the only way to keep costs down. I think the costs in F1 show what happens when you don't limit technical development. I think the show would be a lot less interesting if NASCAR drifts in that direction. Marty
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R E D N A L O 23 March 2005 21:15:54 [ permanent link ]
	On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:32:17 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> wrote: Here's one that Cru seems to have missed (from FoxSports, via Ron>Felix's site):> Too Many Rules Says Roush>Jack Roush says NASCAR's rules have taken creativity out of racing. "These >cars are getting more like IROC cars from year to year to year," Roush >says.> Seems to me like I agree with Jack on this one > John I think I remember participating in discussions in years past in both NASCAR groups about NASCAR creating cookie cutter cars? I believe that is their ultimate goal and believe that they should just go ahead and build IROC type cars for everyone - after all, its just all about the driver, right? DR --- Go 24-48 --------------------------- Proud Father of a US Marine --Semper Fi--
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Phil Rhodes 23 March 2005 22:17:10 [ permanent link ]
	It's only logical that if you put a design in a wind tunnel, and try to reduce the drag to the smallest amount, that your end result is going to look like everyone elses. NASCAR is not about creativity, it's about competition. Fair and equal competition. What everyone wants to see is a race to the finish like Atlanta, and no other racing series in the world can supply that besides NASCAR. The next big thing in Cup racing is Toyota. And after that, the next big thing is a smaller engine, but I probably won't live to see it, lol. It would be hugely expensive. It might even be better to go to fuel injection, and slow the cars down by restricting fuel flow, instead of restricting air flow, as carburetors (and restrictor plates) do. And by the way, how come the Busch cars lap Atlanta as fast as the Cup cars? I mean they have smaller carburetors, and bigger spoilers - which should translate to less horsepower and more drag.... but apparently doesn't. Phil <r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:go83415tol6n0vjbueg72q0vonmip9domh@4ax.com...> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:32:17 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> > wrote:> Here's one that Cru seems to have missed (from FoxSports, via Ron>>Felix's site):>> Too Many Rules Says Roush>>Jack Roush says NASCAR's rules have taken creativity out of racing. "These>>cars are getting more like IROC cars from year to year to year," Roush>>says.>> Seems to me like I agree with Jack on this one >> John> I think I remember participating in discussions in years past in both > NASCAR> groups about NASCAR creating cookie cutter cars? I believe that is their> ultimate goal and believe that they should just go ahead and build IROC> type cars for everyone - after all, its just all about the driver, right?> ---> Go 24-48> ---------------------------> Proud Father of a US Marine> --Semper Fi-->
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DollarBill 24 March 2005 00:39:29 [ permanent link ]
	"Phil Rhodes" <p.rhodes@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message news:BfCdnY_R8doJM9zfRVn-3w@comcast.com... <snip> And by the way, how come the Busch cars lap Atlanta as fast as the Cup > cars? I mean they have smaller carburetors, and bigger spoilers - which > should translate to less horsepower and more drag.... but apparently > doesn't. Oh boy...here we go with another physics discussion!
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John McCoy 24 March 2005 04:48:33 [ permanent link ]
	"Phil Rhodes" <p.rhodes@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in news:BfCdnY_R8doJM9zfRVn-3w@comcast.com: It's only logical that if you put a design in a wind tunnel, and try> to reduce the drag to the smallest amount, that your end result is> going to look like everyone elses. Y'know, you'd think that. But funny things happen. A few years back in F1, everyone thought the right thing was to get the front wing down close the ground - according to the wind tunnel, the lower the better. Then someone found out that if you raise the center of the wing, you get better airflow around the carbody... quite the opposite of the conventional wisdom. You have to have some rules freedom, or no-one will ever find things like that. And after that, the next big thing is a smaller engine, but I probably> won't live to see it, lol. It would be hugely expensive. Robert Yates, who knows a thing or two about engines, says they can go to 265 CID without any major changes or expense. You'll likely see a smaller engine at the same time you see a Toyota, but it probably won't be much smaller, and it probably won't change anything (but it'll annoy the teams a fair bit). John
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Phil Rhodes 24 March 2005 15:24:42 [ permanent link ]
	In F1, everyone doesn't have EXACTLY the same wings, they only have height, length and width restrictions. Getting maximum downforce on the front wing and then getting the air to flow over and THROUGH the car and then get maximum downforce on the rear wing is becoming an art! The race cars look vastly different, and apparently they are. They also aren't on the same tire, which is even more important - what with last years Jaguar (Red Bull Racing) on Michelins whipping last years Ferrari on Bridgestones (Firestones?) in Malaysia last weekend. In NASCAR the spoiler is EXACTLY the same (and it doesn't work like a wing), both in size and angle, but I'm not positive they are the same height off the road, but it sure looks like it. Pontiacs used to have a better clearance with their front air dam, but they're gone. The riding height of the front dam looks VERY simular on all cars (as do fender flares, etc.) This makes for EXTREMELY close competition, and forces Crew Chief to.... well enough said. Phil "John McCoy" <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:Xns9622C7E6D3A3Dpogosupernews@216.168.3.30...> "Phil Rhodes" <p.rhodes@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in> news:BfCdnY_R8doJM9zfRVn-3w@comcast.com:> It's only logical that if you put a design in a wind tunnel, and try>> to reduce the drag to the smallest amount, that your end result is>> going to look like everyone elses.> Y'know, you'd think that. But funny things happen. A few years> back in F1, everyone thought the right thing was to get the front> wing down close the ground - according to the wind tunnel, the> lower the better. Then someone found out that if you raise the> center of the wing, you get better airflow around the carbody...> quite the opposite of the conventional wisdom. You have to have> some rules freedom, or no-one will ever find things like that.> And after that, the next big thing is a smaller engine, but I probably>> won't live to see it, lol. It would be hugely expensive.> Robert Yates, who knows a thing or two about engines, says they> can go to 265 CID without any major changes or expense.> You'll likely see a smaller engine at the same time you see a> Toyota, but it probably won't be much smaller, and it probably> won't change anything (but it'll annoy the teams a fair bit).> John>
		Add comment


John McCoy 25 March 2005 04:22:49 [ permanent link ]
	"Phil Rhodes" <p.rhodes@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in news:0pOdnWN4oZPRtd_fRVn-rg@comcast.com: I fear my point was a tad too obscure. You had written: It's only logical that if you put a design in a wind tunnel, and try>>> to reduce the drag to the smallest amount, that your end result is>>> going to look like everyone elses. That is neither logical nor true. My comment on F1 was an example of that being not so, and it's the same in NASCAR. If the goal is to reduce drag, and you let 10 NASCAR teams loose in wind tunnels, you'd get 8 pretty similar looking cars, and two with something different. The reason everything looks the same in NASCAR is because the rules, now, require it to look the same; it has nothing to do with the abilities of the designers. Were NASCAR to give the teams some freedom, as in F1, then different things would be tried. Roush's comment (that started the thread) was basically that he wants some freedom to try things. John
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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > an interesting quote 23 March 2005 21:15:54

	see also: [R] Scottish FA Cup Round 2 Canadian Unicycling 'Agression'…		pass tests:		see also: ONOTOLE NEGODUE

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