Fatback's reaction to the Vegas penalties

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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > Fatback's reaction to the Vegas penalties 23 March 2005 06:56:25

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Fatback's reaction to the Vegas penalties
Wheeler 21 March 2005 07:18:16
	From Jayski.com: Fatback's stance on the penalties: The crimes committed in Sin City [Las Vegas] drew stiff punishments and suspensions for [crew chiefs] #48-Chad Knaus, #5-Alan Gustafson and #29-Todd Berrier but not much sympathy from many competitors. The trio is challenging the penalties as excessive, but [#21 Crew Chief] Michael "Fatback" McSwain wasn't interested in hearing explanations or claims of injustice. "Tough [expletive]," said McSwain, crew chief for Ricky Rudd. "That's [baloney], man. That's what's wrong with America now. Every time somebody screws up, we tell them it's all right. You don't pay your bills, you can file bankruptcy. You kill somebody, spend 10 years in jail, and we'll let you out. That's what's wrong with society now, man. If you do the crime do the time. If you had the guts to do it, have the guts to take your punishment." Couldn't have said it better myself. -- Wheeler
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Crusader 21 March 2005 20:37:48 [ permanent link ]
	"Wheeler" <jsebright@gmail.com> wrote in message news:Xns961FE2E1327F5jw2468@69.28.186.121...> >From Jayski.com:> Fatback's stance on the penalties: The crimes committed in Sin City [Las> Vegas] drew stiff punishments and suspensions for [crew chiefs] #48-Chad> Knaus, #5-Alan Gustafson and #29-Todd Berrier but not much sympathy from> many competitors. The trio is challenging the penalties as excessive, but> [#21 Crew Chief] Michael "Fatback" McSwain wasn't interested in hearing> explanations or claims of injustice. "Tough [expletive]," said McSwain,> crew chief for Ricky Rudd. "That's [baloney], man. That's what's wrong with> America now. Every time somebody screws up, we tell them it's all right.> You don't pay your bills, you can file bankruptcy. You kill somebody, spend> 10 years in jail, and we'll let you out. That's what's wrong with society> now, man. If you do the crime do the time. If you had the guts to do it,> have the guts to take your punishment."> Couldn't have said it better myself.> --> Wheeler> Gotta say, Fatback took this like a man: Four penalties were issued to Wood Brothers Racing because of an unapproved spoiler adjustment on the No. 21 Ford that took place after pre-race inspection for the Gatorade Duel at Daytona (Daytona 500 qualifying races) on Feb. 17. Ricky Rudd was penalized 25 driver points; Glen Wood was penalized 25 owner points; and crew chief Michael McSwain was fined $25,000. Also, crew member Marc Smith was suspended from NASCAR competition until March 31. The No. 21 also was in violation of Sections 12-4-A and 12-4-Q. CRU
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R E D N A L O 22 March 2005 05:21:20 [ permanent link ]
	On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:18:16 CST, Wheeler <jsebright@gmail.com> wrote: From Jayski.com:> Fatback's stance on the penalties: The crimes committed in Sin City [Las >Vegas] drew stiff punishments and suspensions for [crew chiefs] #48-Chad >Knaus, #5-Alan Gustafson and #29-Todd Berrier but not much sympathy from >many competitors. The trio is challenging the penalties as excessive, but >[#21 Crew Chief] Michael "Fatback" McSwain wasn't interested in hearing >explanations or claims of injustice. "Tough [expletive]," said McSwain, >crew chief for Ricky Rudd. "That's [baloney], man. That's what's wrong with >America now. Every time somebody screws up, we tell them it's all right. >You don't pay your bills, you can file bankruptcy. You kill somebody, spend >10 years in jail, and we'll let you out. That's what's wrong with society >now, man. If you do the crime do the time. If you had the guts to do it, >have the guts to take your punishment."> Couldn't have said it better myself. The problem I have with this and other comments like it is that sounds like if you get caught in a situation, like Jimmy Johnson did at Las Vegas, and penalized by NASCAR, you must be guilty of cheating because that is what NASCAR said. Is it possible that they were NOTcheating and that the bolt that caused this whole fiasco actually backed out on it's own? What if the 48 team didn't do the crime? Should they automatically be considered guilty and have to do the time? This situation is nothing like what the 29 team did, which was obvious blatant cheating. I think NASCAR is wrong in the way they mete out their "justice..." DR
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Somebody 22 March 2005 16:54:32 [ permanent link ]
	<r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:h5ru3114437vroide8ipvff8ubdtbrs1hp@4ax.com...> On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:18:16 CST, Wheeler <jsebright@gmail.com> wrote:> From Jayski.com:> > Fatback's stance on the penalties: The crimes committed in Sin City [Las> >Vegas] drew stiff punishments and suspensions for [crew chiefs] #48-Chad> >Knaus, #5-Alan Gustafson and #29-Todd Berrier but not much sympathy from> >many competitors. The trio is challenging the penalties as excessive, but> >[#21 Crew Chief] Michael "Fatback" McSwain wasn't interested in hearing> >explanations or claims of injustice. "Tough [expletive]," said McSwain,> >crew chief for Ricky Rudd. "That's [baloney], man. That's what's wrong with> >America now. Every time somebody screws up, we tell them it's all right.> >You don't pay your bills, you can file bankruptcy. You kill somebody, spend> >10 years in jail, and we'll let you out. That's what's wrong with society> >now, man. If you do the crime do the time. If you had the guts to do it,> >have the guts to take your punishment."> > Couldn't have said it better myself.> The problem I have with this and other comments like it is that sounds like> if you get caught in a situation, like Jimmy Johnson did at Las Vegas, and> penalized by NASCAR, you must be guilty of cheating because that is what> NASCAR said. Is it possible that they were NOTcheating and that the bolt> that caused this whole fiasco actually backed out on it's own? What if the> 48 team didn't do the crime? Should they automatically be considered> guilty and have to do the time? This situation is nothing like what the 29> team did, which was obvious blatant cheating. I think NASCAR is wrong> in the way they mete out their "justice..." In this instance, I agree with your statements. What should grow out of it however, is that the teams will have to spend engineering dollars making sure falures of that type cannot occur, whereas it is possible in the past they have actually spent effort to make sure they could occur, thus giving plausible deniability. NASCAR's new hard line will make them change their approach -- maybe they do need to stop going so close to the edge on these setup calls. As KS said on 'the show', NASCAR does build in some wiggle room, but at some point they have to draw a line, and it's the CC's job to avoid that line. What I don't like is the spectre of racing incidents... contact, etc.... making legal cars illegal, then penalizing for it. The flip side is intentional minor contact to allow one to skirt a particular rule in some way. It's a hard one to make policy on and to police, it requires cool heads and common sense, both of which tend to be in short supply both after a race and when making the rules these days. -Russ.
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Steve Scott 22 March 2005 21:22:36 [ permanent link ]
	I think DW and JH put it well during the pre-race. "Don't call me a cheater. Saw we had an infraction." Rough quote. Maybe the 48 team tried something and got caught, maybe not. In any case the car was out of spec coming off the track. On that basis penalties should be assessed. IMO, the teams should know up front exactly what the penalties will be. Make 'em sit out if you're going to but let them know exactly what the penalties will be. What Helton's doing sort of reminds me of when our kids were small. Too often you see parents threaten to punish their children when they do something wrong. You've seen it. "If you do this, you're going to sit in the corner." Then the kid does it and the parent ignores it. Finally, the kids do it enough. The parents get angry, ends up spanking the kid and the kid is confused because you always ignored it before. We told our kids up front, if you do this, I'm going to spank you. And then when they did it we fulfilled our promise to them. The kids were never confused and they always knew where they stood. Now NASCAR said we're going to find the daylights out of you for infractions. And they did till they got fed up so they started fining and taking away points. And they did that till they got fed up and started fining, taking away points and suspending crew chiefs. But the increased penalties always come without prior warning so it takes everyone by surprise. It really doesn't seem so hard. All Helton has to say is, "Here's the car specs. Your car MUST meet them in post-race inspection or you forfeit the win and get last place points. We're telling you today. This starts next week. End of story." Instead, now there's apparently a veiled threat to sit drivers out. Which is fine too. Just be exact about what you're going to do and when you're going to increase the penalties. NASCAR is acting like the parent allowing their child to get away with bad behavior and then acts surprised and over reacts when the behavior continues. On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:21:20 CST, r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote: On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:18:16 CST, Wheeler <jsebright@gmail.com> wrote:> From Jayski.com:>> Fatback's stance on the penalties: The crimes committed in Sin City [Las >>Vegas] drew stiff punishments and suspensions for [crew chiefs] #48-Chad >>Knaus, #5-Alan Gustafson and #29-Todd Berrier but not much sympathy from >>many competitors. The trio is challenging the penalties as excessive, but >>[#21 Crew Chief] Michael "Fatback" McSwain wasn't interested in hearing >>explanations or claims of injustice. "Tough [expletive]," said McSwain, >>crew chief for Ricky Rudd. "That's [baloney], man. That's what's wrong with >>America now. Every time somebody screws up, we tell them it's all right. >>You don't pay your bills, you can file bankruptcy. You kill somebody, spend >>10 years in jail, and we'll let you out. That's what's wrong with society >>now, man. If you do the crime do the time. If you had the guts to do it, >>have the guts to take your punishment.">> Couldn't have said it better myself.> The problem I have with this and other comments like it is that sounds like>if you get caught in a situation, like Jimmy Johnson did at Las Vegas, and>penalized by NASCAR, you must be guilty of cheating because that is what>NASCAR said. Is it possible that they were NOTcheating and that the bolt>that caused this whole fiasco actually backed out on it's own? What if the>48 team didn't do the crime? Should they automatically be considered>guilty and have to do the time? This situation is nothing like what the 29>team did, which was obvious blatant cheating. I think NASCAR is wrong>in the way they mete out their "justice..."> DR -- "I'm trying to make insects fly", said Tom flippantly.
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WildWeasel 23 March 2005 06:32:32 [ permanent link ]
	"Steve Scott" wrote ...> snip good stuff> It really doesn't seem so hard. All Helton has to say is, "Here's the> car specs. Your car MUST meet them in post-race inspection or you> forfeit the win and get last place points. We're telling you today.> This starts next week. End of story."> Instead, now there's apparently a veiled threat to sit drivers out.> Which is fine too. Right here is where you lose me, because in the veiled threat he DIDN'T say what exactly was gonna make him do it (you know the rules, (the "not in the best interest" one?)) or what he's going to do, exactly or otherwise (don't make me do it? What's "IT"? Sit 'em? Take away wins? Drop finishing x number of positions?) THAT'S the problem. He has NOT done, that we know of, exactly what you correctly prescribed. Veiled (and empty and vague) threats are exactly what bad parents do, like you say. Just be exact about what you're going to do and> when you're going to increase the penalties. NASCAR is acting like> the parent allowing their child to get away with bad behavior and then> acts surprised and over reacts when the behavior continues.>
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Steve Scott 23 March 2005 06:56:25 [ permanent link ]
	In re-reading this that sentence "Which is fine too." is confusing. I meant if NASCAR wants to make drivers sit out a race if their car isn't legal at the end of the race, that's fine too. Just as long as everyone knows about it ahead of time. On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:32:32 CST, "WildWeasel" <wweasel_24@HooYah.com> wrote: "Steve Scott" wrote ...>> snip good stuff>> It really doesn't seem so hard. All Helton has to say is, "Here's the>> car specs. Your car MUST meet them in post-race inspection or you>> forfeit the win and get last place points. We're telling you today.>> This starts next week. End of story.">> Instead, now there's apparently a veiled threat to sit drivers out.>> Which is fine too.> Right here is where you lose me, because in the veiled threat he DIDN'T say what >exactly was gonna make him do it (you know the rules, (the "not in the best >interest" one?)) or what he's going to do, exactly or otherwise (don't make me >do it? What's "IT"? Sit 'em? Take away wins? Drop finishing x number of >positions?) THAT'S the problem. He has NOT done, that we know of, exactly what >you correctly prescribed.> Veiled (and empty and vague) threats are exactly what bad parents do, like you >say.> Just be exact about what you're going to do and>> when you're going to increase the penalties. NASCAR is acting like>> the parent allowing their child to get away with bad behavior and then>> acts surprised and over reacts when the behavior continues.>>
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Crusader 24 March 2005 01:23:16 [ permanent link ]
	WW, those are THE Questions. In other places, i ask more. -- Crusader "WildWeasel" <wweasel_24@HooYah.com> wrote in message news:MbKdnb4mb-soSd3fUSdV9g@ptd.net...> "Steve Scott" wrote ...> > snip good stuff> > It really doesn't seem so hard. All Helton has to say is, "Here's the> > car specs. Your car MUST meet them in post-race inspection or you> > forfeit the win and get last place points. We're telling you today.> > This starts next week. End of story."> > Instead, now there's apparently a veiled threat to sit drivers out.> > Which is fine too.> Right here is where you lose me, because in the veiled threat he DIDN'T say what> exactly was gonna make him do it (you know the rules, (the "not in the best> interest" one?)) or what he's going to do, exactly or otherwise (don't make me> do it? What's "IT"? Sit 'em? Take away wins? Drop finishing x number of> positions?) THAT'S the problem. He has NOT done, that we know of, exactly what> you correctly prescribed.> Veiled (and empty and vague) threats are exactly what bad parents do, like you> say.> Just be exact about what you're going to do and> > when you're going to increase the penalties. NASCAR is acting like> > the parent allowing their child to get away with bad behavior and then> > acts surprised and over reacts when the behavior continues.> >
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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > Fatback's reaction to the Vegas penalties 23 March 2005 06:56:25

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Fatback's reaction to the Vegas penalties

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