How do I rename or delete a tag?
Re: New Delayed Start Procedure
Hello Guest		   
  • Login
• Register…
• Start blog		   • Who, Where, When
• What is interesting here?
• Duels		   • Polls
• Avatars
• Interests		   • Cities and Countries
• Random blog
• Users search		   • Search
• Games
• Tests
• GYXU		   • Ñîîáùåñòâà
• Talxy Chat
• Horoscope
• Online		  
Register!
GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > Re: New Delayed Start Procedure 7 March 2005 14:51:11
  Recent blog posts: 
pipiska!!!upja4ka!!!pshli…
pipiska!!!upja4ka!!!­­pshli nax!!!

UPJA4KA!!!
TUTSJAPI6!!PI6!ZEPJ EBRILO!!!!!ZAZA!!!T­­ELOIDI, DA! MY – EBANULISJ!!!PI6! PI6! PI6! OJAEBU!!I&hellip­;

Hi!
Hi! I am Kate from Ukraine! I don't now, everything about this website. Also I dodn't know english very…

...
http://gyxu.com/p/lo­­gin.cgi?r=http­://www­.winxclu­b.com/

ONOTOLE NEGODUE
Blin, nu zaipali trabli s ssilkami.Zaxozu kuda to - BAZ! i ja snova gostj.Vxozu i vse norma,no…

4to za xerj ?
Menja 4asto vikidivaet !!!X-(­

Sri Lanka Vs West Indies
Sri Lanka won the first match by more than 100 runs…this is first in West Indies. .unfortunately after…

...
gfgdgd

Fs:,Iphone 8Gb,Nokia…
BUY 2 GET 1 FREE We Are Importer And Exporter Of All Kinds Of Mobile Phones Games,And All…

Blog Feed
http://feeds.feedbur­­ner.com/Tumble­weedRe­altyMaui

  Forums:   
    topic feeds

• GYXU  all topics, blogs and comments

• General

• F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally

• Baseball

• Basketball

• Boxing

• Football

• Soccer

• Hockey

• Rugby

• Tennis

• Pro Wrestling

• Billiard

• Cycling

• Boats

• Kites, widsurfing, waterski

• Diving

• Skiing

• Cricket

• Golf

• Skating

• Buy / Sell

• Anonymous
  Discuss: 
Woohoo!
The best there ever was and the best there ever will be. Jeff Gordon

Re: ExcuseFest 2009
On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:15:28 -0800 (PST), sterling <sterlingla@aol.com­> wrote: There is…
  Recent forum topics: 
Hoffman's High Hemologin Values
Does any of our Scandinavian friends know about Christian Hoffman being recently banned from racing for…

Steel bolts and nuts for Ultima…
The now discontinued Jackson Ultima Matrix mounts (for removable figure skating blade runners) held the…

Stockholm-Falun scoring system…
Kowalczyk overcame Majdic to win the overall WC title because she got the 200 bonus points for the…

Worn Rotefella Boots
Dear All, just back from an excellent trip to Norway. One problem, in heavy snow, very difficult to…
  Recent forum comments:
RE: Rowing is fun
And funny. http://www.nlroei.n­l/Fotoboek-display-7­2317.html

RE: Re: Drugs -Cycling and Market…
Carl Douglas wrote: I think you might be jumping to illogical conclusions. I'm not opposed to…

RE: Season opener?
On Mar 19, 7:07pm, garystanislaw...@gm­ail.com wrote: Hey thats great! hope to see you out…

RE: Season opener?
On Mar 20, 8:24am, Zephyr <davedejo...@hotmai­l.com> wrote:

RE: Season opener?
I sail Cass sometimes before jet ski season, but not sure if it's open yet. Maybe I'll see you there…

RE: Hoffman's High Hemologin Values
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:49:37 -0700 (PDT), ADK Skier <lgsumr@yahoo.com> wrote: Kikkan Randall…

RE: Hoffman's High Hemologin Values
I'll stay out of that one. Some February lab test results - in the midst of races - showed my…

RE: Hoffman's High Hemologin Values
ADK Skier wrote: The real problem wasn't a high hemo value, but the wrong ratio between what I…

RE: Hoffman's High Hemologin Values
On Mar 23, 3:11pm, Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> wrote: Thanks Terje…

RE: Worn Rotefella Boots
Neil wrote: Yes indeed! Normally it was sufficient to press the binding further down, i.e. tighten…
  Ìîäåðàòîð:
 Administrator

Re: New Delayed Start Procedure

Brian Lawrence 7 March 2005 15:14:06
 "Robin McInnes" <robin@spa-mtr-ap.b­illycorps.fsnet.co.u­k> wrote:
Am I right here, or have I missed something?>
If I am right, might it not be an advantage to a driver who is already at the back of a starting > grid to deliberately 'stall', and achieve such a fuel saving over the rest of the field? Or would > the fuel saved by such a stunt be negligible in race terms?

At Melbourne at racing speed each car burns about 3.3kg of fuel. At slower
speed (the extra parade lap) it is probably only about half that, say 1.5kg.
That is only enough for half a lap when racing which allows him to stop half
a lap later than he would have done.

He would also be 1.5kg heavier in comparison to the other cars - slowing him
by about 0.1s per lap.

And he would be starting further back than if he was on the grid - starting
on the grid he starts when the light goes out - starting from the pitlane
he doesn't start until the last cars have passed the pitlane exit. He does
have the advantage of a clear track ahead of him and can drive faster until
he catches up to the pack, but that doesn't really give him any benefit.

--

Brian


Add comment
Robin McInnes 7 March 2005 14:51:11 [ permanent link ]
 Hi all,

I noticed yesterday that the 'stall at start' rules have changed. The
stalled car being removed to the pit-lane to start there, while the rest
of the grid did an immediate second formation lap. (As opposed to the
old system of a five-minute delayed start procedure with the offending
car following around at the back of the second formation lap.)

It struck me that the stalled car, although suffering the penalty of a
pit-lane start, appeared to have the advantage of not doing a second
formation lap, and thus conserved the fuel the rest of the grid used in
that second lap.

I must admit, I've never really been able to get my head around the
calculations involved in the fuel saving/extra first stint
endurance/race advantage equations properly, but it did occur to me that
the new stalled car procedure might give a stalled car a fuel advantage
in the race.

Am I right here, or have I missed something?

If I am right, might it not be an advantage to a driver who is already
at the back of a starting grid to deliberately 'stall', and achieve such
a fuel saving over the rest of the field? Or would the fuel saved by
such a stunt be negligible in race terms?

--
Cheers,
Robin McInnes

Cheshire, UK

(Email address in header contains a spam trap. Remove it to email me.)
Add comment
Jeff York 7 March 2005 15:08:24 [ permanent link ]
 Robin McInnes <robin@spa-mtr-ap.b­illycorps.fsnet.co.u­k> wrote:
Hi all,>
I noticed yesterday that the 'stall at start' rules have changed. The >stalled car being removed to the pit-lane to start there, while the rest >of the grid did an immediate second formation lap. (As opposed to the >old system of a five-minute delayed start procedure with the offending >car following around at the back of the second formation lap.)>
It struck me that the stalled car, although suffering the penalty of a >pit-lane start, appeared to have the advantage of not doing a second >formation lap, and thus conserved the fuel the rest of the grid used in >that second lap.>
I must admit, I've never really been able to get my head around the >calculations involved in the fuel saving/extra first stint >endurance/race advantage equations properly, but it did occur to me that >the new stalled car procedure might give a stalled car a fuel advantage >in the race.>
Am I right here, or have I missed something?>
If I am right, might it not be an advantage to a driver who is already >at the back of a starting grid to deliberately 'stall', and achieve such >a fuel saving over the rest of the field? Or would the fuel saved by >such a stunt be negligible in race terms?

I can't see any way it could be an advantage.. The amount of fuel
used on in "installation" lap is inevitably going to be less than that
used on a "racing" lap, so you're not going to be able to save even
one lap's worth of fuel. Add to that the disadvantage of being
guaranteed dead last at the first corner..

--
Jeff. Ironbridge, Shrops, U.K.
jeff@xjackfieldx.or­g (remove the x..x round jackfield for return address)
and don't bother with ralf4, it's a spamtrap and I never go there.. :)­

... "There are few hours in life more agreeable
than the hour dedicated to the ceremony
known as afternoon tea.."

Henry James, (1843 - 1916).


Add comment
Robin McInnes 7 March 2005 15:19:15 [ permanent link ]
 Brian Lawrence wrote:
At Melbourne at racing speed each car burns about 3.3kg of fuel. At slower>speed (the extra parade lap) it is probably only about half that, say 1.5kg.>That is only enough for half a lap when racing which allows him to stop half>a lap later than he would have done.>
He would also be 1.5kg heavier in comparison to the other cars - slowing him>by about 0.1s per lap.>
And he would be starting further back than if he was on the grid - starting>on the grid he starts when the light goes out - starting from the pitlane>he doesn't start until the last cars have passed the pitlane exit. He does>have the advantage of a clear track ahead of him and can drive faster until>he catches up to the pack, but that doesn't really give him any benefit.>
Thanks Brian, I thought as much, but it was nagging me.

I suppose it works out the same for any circuit as well, doesn't it?

--
Cheers,
Robin McInnes

Cheshire, UK

(Email address in header contains a spam trap. Remove it to email me.)
Add comment
Brian Lawrence 7 March 2005 15:27:02 [ permanent link ]
 "Robin McInnes" <robin@spa-mtr-ap.b­illycorps.fsnet.co.u­k> wrote:
Brian Lawrence wrote:>
At Melbourne at racing speed each car burns about 3.3kg of fuel. At slower>>speed (the extra parade lap) it is probably only about half that, say 1.5kg.>>That is only enough for half a lap when racing which allows him to stop half>>a lap later than he would have done.>>
He would also be 1.5kg heavier in comparison to the other cars - slowing him>>by about 0.1s per lap.>>
And he would be starting further back than if he was on the grid - starting>>on the grid he starts when the light goes out - starting from the pitlane>>he doesn't start until the last cars have passed the pitlane exit. He does>>have the advantage of a clear track ahead of him and can drive faster until>>he catches up to the pack, but that doesn't really give him any benefit.>>
Thanks Brian, I thought as much, but it was nagging me.>
I suppose it works out the same for any circuit as well, doesn't it?

Yes, although the amount of fuel burned per lap varies from track to track.
The el cheapo "Formula 1 Yearbook, 2004-2005" which I picked up for a fiver
at the weekend has the numbers for each 2004 track - plus it has the effect
of 10kg of fuel at each track too. At Melbourne 10kg is equivalent to 0.41s
per lap.

I'll post a list when I get time.

--

Brian


Add comment
Geoff May 7 March 2005 15:56:55 [ permanent link ]
 Brian Lawrence wrote:> [snipped]>
Yes, although the amount of fuel burned per lap varies from track to track.> The el cheapo "Formula 1 Yearbook, 2004-2005" which I picked up for a fiver> at the weekend has the numbers for each 2004 track - plus it has the effect> of 10kg of fuel at each track too. At Melbourne 10kg is equivalent to 0.41s> per lap.>
I'll post a list when I get time.

And now for the really stupid questions:

1) How many litres is 10 kg of fuel?
2) What's the average km per lt at normal racing speed or how much fuel
does the average car use per race?

MfG

Geoff.

--
Unofficial F1 Database: http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/
Update: 6th March, 2005
USENET Email address is a spam trap, send Emails to address in the DB
Add comment
Brian Lawrence 7 March 2005 16:31:06 [ permanent link ]
 "Geoff May" <BeateUndGeoff@t-on­line.de> wrote:
Brian Lawrence wrote:>> [snipped]>>
Yes, although the amount of fuel burned per lap varies from track to track.>> The el cheapo "Formula 1 Yearbook, 2004-2005" which I picked up for a fiver>> at the weekend has the numbers for each 2004 track - plus it has the effect>> of 10kg of fuel at each track too. At Melbourne 10kg is equivalent to 0.41s>> per lap.>>
I'll post a list when I get time.>
And now for the really stupid questions:>
1) How many litres is 10 kg of fuel?

Well it looks as though the Specific Gravity of petrol is 0.73, which means
that one litre weighs 0.73 kg, or 13.7 litres weighs 10 kg.

The maximum refuelling rate is 12.1 litres/sec, so each second that the
refuelling nozzle is connected equates to very roughly 10kg. If Melbourne
is 3.3 kg per lap that means each seconds worth of refuelling is enough
for 3 laps.
2) What's the average km per lt at normal racing speed or how much fuel does the average car use > per race?

Again, if Melbourne is 3.3 kg per lap and the race is 58 (57) laps that is
about 191.5 kg for the race or about 262 litres. 262 litres to cover 307.5
km is about 1.1 km per litre.

Maybe we have some mathematicians who can be more precise.

--

Brian


Add comment
Phil Newnham 7 March 2005 17:01:44 [ permanent link ]
 Brian Lawrence wrote:>>2) What's the average km per lt at normal racing speed or how much fuel does the average car use >>per race?>
Again, if Melbourne is 3.3 kg per lap and the race is 58 (57) laps that is> about 191.5 kg for the race or about 262 litres. 262 litres to cover 307.5> km is about 1.1 km per litre.>
Maybe we have some mathematicians who can be more precise.

I don't know about more precise...

In European mileages that would work out as 85.2 litres/100km, or for
British mileages, 3.32 mpg.

--
Phil
Add comment
Brian Lawrence 7 March 2005 19:35:40 [ permanent link ]
 "Phil Newnham" <pnewnhamat@yahoodo­t.com> wrote:
Brian Lawrence wrote:>>>2) What's the average km per lt at normal racing speed or how much fuel does the average car use >>>per race?>>
Again, if Melbourne is 3.3 kg per lap and the race is 58 (57) laps that is>> about 191.5 kg for the race or about 262 litres. 262 litres to cover 307.5>> km is about 1.1 km per litre.>>
Maybe we have some mathematicians who can be more precise.>
I don't know about more precise...>
In European mileages that would work out as 85.2 litres/100km, or for British mileages, 3.32 mpg.

One additional bit of data - I said the the Specific Gravity of petrol is 0.73,
which I found on a website somewhere. I assumed that that equates to 0.73 kg
per litre. Now, on the FIA website, in the Technical Regs. (Article 19) it says
that F1 fuel can have a density at 15 degrees centigrade between 720 and 775
kg/cubic metre. Assuming that means a Specific Gravity between 0.72 and 0.775
a more accurate figure would seem to be 0.72 and a bit, since you would want to
develop fuel that is as light as possible within the limits.

This sort of physics is outside my experience so someone correct me if I'm
making wrong assumptions.

--

Brian


Add comment
 

Add new comment

As:
Login:  Password:  
 
 
  
 
respect your talk pals, avoid using obscene language, typing entire messages in CAPS, posting buy/sell ads or violating netiquette or the RF Criminal Code..

GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > Re: New Delayed Start Procedure 7 March 2005 14:51:11
see also:
F1: Wide range of entertainment at…
BIKE: ARENACROSS: 2004-2005 Regional…
WOO: Las Vegas Thursday report
pass tests:
see also:
Lazily...
Hi!
  Copyright © 2001—2009 GYXU
Idea: Miñhael Monashev
See Help and FAQ in the community support.gyxu.com.
Write in the community about the bugs you have noticedbugs.gyxu.com.
Write your offers and comments in the communities suggest.gyxu.com.
Information for parents.
Write us at:
If you would like to report an abuse of our service, such as a spam message, please .