Further to my idea of having no pit stops during yellows. Lets not close the pits but if someone does pit under yellow then they have to do a drive though penalty under green to even things up. To me taking the yellow flag strategy and all those yellow automatic laps out of the race (more racing laps) and then all pitstops will be green AWESOME. Let me know what you think.
Martin X. Moleski 10 September 2007 18:27:07 [ permanent link ]
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:55:22 CST, "Ed" <lfmaccc@yahoo.com> wrote in <VO5Fi.25452$bO6.12792@edtnps89>:
Further to my idea of having no pit stops during yellows. Lets not close the
pits but if someone does pit under yellow then they have to do a drive
though penalty under green to even things up. To me taking the yellow flag
strategy and all those yellow automatic laps out of the race (more racing
laps) and then all pitstops will be green AWESOME. Let me know what you
think.
It's conceivable but unlikely that your rule would be adopted.
I am not opposed to yellow-flag pitstops.
I wish they wouldn't penalize broken cars that can't go all the way around the track to wait until the pits open. I know it would take a judgment call, but there's plenty of time under the yellow to review tapes, talk to the pit officials, and decide who "really" needed to pit and who was fakin' it.
Marty
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Chuck Steak 10 September 2007 18:36:49 [ permanent link ]
In article moleski@canisius.edu wrote:
I am not opposed to yellow-flag pitstops.
Marty
Me either. What I am opposed to, is when a car does a 360 spin, doesn't hit anything, and there are 7 caution laps.... There should be no guarantee that if you make a stop, the green won't come out while you are in the pits.
Dan **************************************** Before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away... and have their shoes...
Martin X. Moleski 10 September 2007 19:45:19 [ permanent link ]
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:36:49 CST, chuck_steak@nospam.com (Chuck Steak) wrote in <FKbFi.3490$qV3.1483@trndny02>:
... What I am opposed to, is when a car does a 360 spin,
doesn't hit anything, and there are 7 caution laps....
There should be no guarantee that if you make a stop,
the green won't come out while you are in the pits.
Obviously, some of the length of cautions is due to TV wanted to get commercials in at an opportune time.
A lot of commercials.
It's not a pure decision--it does not focus solely on what makes "good racing."
It's a compromise.
The commercials pay for the air time. Commercials interrupt viewing the race. Commercials during caution periods are less aggravating that green-flag commericials.
So, on balance, I'm at peace with the caution-flag rituals we have. I do a LOT of channel surfing during that time.
Marty -- Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.* See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.
Bob Paxton 10 September 2007 22:14:39 [ permanent link ]
On Sep 10, 9:55 am, "Ed" <lfma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Further to my idea of having no pit stops during yellows. Lets not close the
pits but if someone does pit under yellow then they have to do a drive
though penalty under green to even things up. To me taking the yellow flag
strategy and all those yellow automatic laps out of the race (more racing
laps) and then all pitstops will be green AWESOME. Let me know what you
think.
I think "no pit stops under yellow" would be a can of worms I'd rather not open. Consider:
1. Clearly you could not penalize a car that was already headed down pit road when the yellow comes out, but what do you do with the car that is clearly heading into the pits, but hasn't crossed the commit line? Do you make that guy hang a hard right back onto the track to avoid the penalty for pitting under caution? IMHO, that would create a hazard to force drivers to make a sudden move back up into traffic. Then again, you'd have the issue of determining a car's position relative to the commit line at the instant the caution waved. The technology to do that exists, but would it be fair to penalize a driver who was just a foot or so short of crossing the line when the yellow waves?
2. I'd hate to see a penalty imposed on a driver who is forced to pit under yellow because a lengthy caution came out the lap before he needed to stop for fuel.
If you want to reduce the number of yellow flag stops, there's an easier way to do it. Do what they do in the Busch Series--limit the number of tires a team can have over the course of a race.
John McCoy 11 September 2007 05:28:28 [ permanent link ]
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in news:13eahgph5fi9e57@news.supernews.com:
I wish they wouldn't penalize broken cars that can't
go all the way around the track to wait until the pits
open. I know it would take a judgment call, but there's
plenty of time under the yellow to review tapes, talk
to the pit officials, and decide who "really" needed
to pit and who was fakin' it.
I have no problem with this. If a car is badly damaged, and pits early, it likely as not would end up at the back of the pack after being repaired anyway, so the "end of the longest line" penalty is pretty much moot.
If the car's not so badly damaged, and the crew has to make a choice whether to come in & be penalized, or stay out, well, part of the excitement of the sport is seeing teams make choices, and waiting to see if they're right or wrong. The guy who most accurately judges whether his car can make a lap or not gets an advantage, which is the way a competition should be.
John McCoy 11 September 2007 05:32:29 [ permanent link ]
chuck_steak@nospam.com (Chuck Steak) wrote in news:FKbFi.3490$qV3.1483 @trndny02:
What I am opposed to, is when a car does a 360 spin,
doesn't hit anything, and there are 7 caution laps....
There should be no guarantee that if you make a stop,
the green won't come out while you are in the pits.
Agreed. It's my recollection that back in the old days, when they didn't gather all the cars up behind the pace car and dump them all down pit road at once, that we didn't have extended cautions.
Closing the pits and gathering the cars was a reaction to scoring problems. With today's transponders and electronic scoring, that issue doesn't exist. Maybe they should go back to always open pits.
John
(realizing that he's now argueing the opposite point to the position he took on Marty's post)
John McCoy 11 September 2007 05:34:39 [ permanent link ]
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in news:13eam3fl4ilit24@news.supernews.com:
Obviously, some of the length of cautions is due to
TV wanted to get commercials in at an opportune time.
Something with which the networks seem to be totally failing, since they almost invariably miss the green flag. Since the commercials don't fit in the yellow period anyway, it's a poor reason for NASCAR to artificially lengthen the cautions.
Martin X. Moleski 11 September 2007 07:48:27 [ permanent link ]
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:32:29 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix.netcom.com> wrote in <Xns99A7D1C0C5ECBpogosupernews@216.168.3.30>:
... Closing the pits and gathering the cars was a reaction to scoring
problems. With today's transponders and electronic scoring, that
issue doesn't exist. Maybe they should go back to always open
pits.
John
(realizing that he's now argueing the opposite point to the position
he took on Marty's post)
I wouldn't object to "always open pits."
I hate seeing someone get penalized for bringing a wrecked car down pit lane at their first opportunity.
The wreck is penalty enough!
Marty -- Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.* See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.
DollarBill 14 September 2007 17:23:02 [ permanent link ]
<bob.paxton@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1189444467.226173.304500@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 10, 9:55 am, "Ed" <lfma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
1. Clearly you could not penalize a car that was already headed down
pit road when the yellow comes out, but what do you do with the car
that is clearly heading into the pits, but hasn't crossed the commit
line? Do you make that guy hang a hard right back onto the track to
avoid the penalty for pitting under caution? IMHO, that would create
a hazard to force drivers to make a sudden move back up into traffic.
Then again, you'd have the issue of determining a car's position
relative to the commit line at the instant the caution waved. The
technology to do that exists, but would it be fair to penalize a
driver who was just a foot or so short of crossing the line when the
yellow waves?
LOL, "clearly", it's nascar, they do what they want, sometimes with blatant disregard to reasoning.
Seriously though, without in-car lights indicating track status (green, yellow, red), there really is no way to enforce this. I'm surprised the CoT doesn't have in-car lights much like IRL. It's a HUGE safety factor. -- Gotta Go...FAST! Bill
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