Re: Breakaway Series?

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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > Re: Breakaway Series? 30 May 2005 17:49:48

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Re: Breakaway Series?
Vile Merchant 12 May 2005 10:09:30
	"Bugbear.1973" <bugbear.1973@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1115872090.896186.320170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...> I doubt that there will be a breakaway series. I think that this> threat to form a series is just that - a threat. I think the best> outcome from all this is if the Go9 stick to their guns and win some> restructuring of the leadership of Formula 1 I think it's more like a Go7 by now..
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Ray O'Hara 12 May 2005 10:21:14 [ permanent link ]
	"Bugbear.1973" <bugbear.1973@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1115872090.896186.320170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...> I doubt that there will be a breakaway series. I think that this> threat to form a series is just that - a threat. I think the best> outcome from all this is if the Go9 stick to their guns and win some> restructuring of the leadership of Formula 1> bernie must die.
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Stuart Naylor 13 May 2005 13:05:20 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 12 May 2005 02:21:14 -0400, "ray o'hara" wrote: "Bugbear.1973" <bugbear.1973@gmail.com> wrote in message>news:1115872090.896186.320170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>> I doubt that there will be a breakaway series. I think that this>> threat to form a series is just that - a threat. I think the best>> outcome from all this is if the Go9 stick to their guns and win some>> restructuring of the leadership of Formula 1> bernie must die. Not just Bernie, everybody must die, eventually. -- Rusty
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Da Frank 13 May 2005 13:09:01 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:05:20 +1000, Stuart Naylor <another_one@privacy.net> wrote: On Thu, 12 May 2005 02:21:14 -0400, "ray o'hara" wrote:> "Bugbear.1973" <bugbear.1973@gmail.com> wrote in message>>news:1115872090.896186.320170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>>> I doubt that there will be a breakaway series. I think that this>>> threat to form a series is just that - a threat. I think the best>>> outcome from all this is if the Go9 stick to their guns and win some>>> restructuring of the leadership of Formula 1>> bernie must die.> Not just Bernie, everybody must die, eventually.> I've decided not to die. So far so good.. -- Regards, Frank
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Stuart Naylor 13 May 2005 13:47:26 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:09:01 +1000, "Da Frank" wrote: On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:05:20 +1000, Stuart Naylor><another_one@privacy.net> wrote:> On Thu, 12 May 2005 02:21:14 -0400, "ray o'hara" wrote:>> "Bugbear.1973" <bugbear.1973@gmail.com> wrote in message>>>news:1115872090.896186.320170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>>>> I doubt that there will be a breakaway series. I think that this>>>> threat to form a series is just that - a threat. I think the best>>>> outcome from all this is if the Go9 stick to their guns and win some>>>> restructuring of the leadership of Formula 1>>> bernie must die.>> Not just Bernie, everybody must die, eventually.>> I've decided not to die. So far so good. Well done! I hope it keeps working for you in the future. -- Rusty
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Jeff York 13 May 2005 14:19:17 [ permanent link ]
	Stuart Naylor <another_one@privacy.net> wrote: On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:09:01 +1000, "Da Frank" wrote:> On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:05:20 +1000, Stuart Naylor>><another_one@privacy.net> wrote:>> On Thu, 12 May 2005 02:21:14 -0400, "ray o'hara" wrote:>>> "Bugbear.1973" <bugbear.1973@gmail.com> wrote in message>>>>news:1115872090.896186.320170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>>>>> I doubt that there will be a breakaway series. I think that this>>>>> threat to form a series is just that - a threat. I think the best>>>>> outcome from all this is if the Go9 stick to their guns and win some>>>>> restructuring of the leadership of Formula 1>>>> bernie must die.>>> Not just Bernie, everybody must die, eventually.>>> I've decided not to die. So far so good. > Well done! I hope it keeps working for you in the future. Sounds like a Woody Allen quote... "I don't want to be immortal because of my work being remembered... I want to be immortal by living for ever!" -- Jeff. Ironbridge, Shrops, U.K. jeff@xjackfieldx.org (remove the x..x round jackfield for return address) and don't bother with ralf4, it's a spamtrap and I never go there.. ... "There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea.." Henry James, (1843 - 1916).
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Stuart Naylor 13 May 2005 16:04:12 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 13 May 2005 11:19:17 +0100, "Jeff York" wrote: Stuart Naylor <another_one@privacy.net> wrote:> On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:09:01 +1000, "Da Frank" wrote:>> On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:05:20 +1000, Stuart Naylor>>><another_one@privacy.net> wrote:>>> On Thu, 12 May 2005 02:21:14 -0400, "ray o'hara" wrote:>>>> "Bugbear.1973" <bugbear.1973@gmail.com> wrote in message>>>>>news:1115872090.896186.320170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>>>>>> I doubt that there will be a breakaway series. I think that this>>>>>> threat to form a series is just that - a threat. I think the best>>>>>> outcome from all this is if the Go9 stick to their guns and win some>>>>>> restructuring of the leadership of Formula 1>>>>> bernie must die.>>>> Not just Bernie, everybody must die, eventually.>>>> I've decided not to die. So far so good. >> Well done! I hope it keeps working for you in the future.> Sounds like a Woody Allen quote... "I don't want to be immortal>because of my work being remembered... I want to be immortal by living>for ever!" LOL ok you win. -- Rusty
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Helicon_One 13 May 2005 23:31:17 [ permanent link ]
	<anon_peter@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:1115870855.727126.247150@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...> It'll be interesting to see if there actually is a breakaway> series in 2008 and what this will mean for F1. Question: Is F1 big enough, and free enough of serious competition, to survive a split into two rival factions? CART (Indycar) evidently wasn't, and a possible split in the F1 camp is often predicted to be a disaster on a similar scale, but on a global scale, is there enough support for 2 series? Tim -- ---------------- you've got to admire Austria, a country that convinced the world that Hitler was a German, and Mozart, Austrian Jim Richardson - Usenet out-take If you want to reply by email, replace the asterisks with underscores. Currently listening to: 'Pure' - The Lightning Seeds
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Pete Fenelon 13 May 2005 23:57:54 [ permanent link ]
	Helicon_One <shinybluething@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:> Question: Is F1 big enough, and free enough of serious competition, to > survive a split into two rival factions? CART (Indycar) evidently wasn't, > and a possible split in the F1 camp is often predicted to be a disaster on a > similar scale, but on a global scale, is there enough support for 2 series? No, not without serious damage. F1 presents itself, rightly or wrongly, as "the pinnacle". There can't be two of them! Either one or both series would be regarded as missing too many of the "names"... pete -- pete@fenelon.com "We ask ourselves 'what will become of Evil Gazebo?'"
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Ruddell 26 May 2005 07:37:48 [ permanent link ]
	In <2s036d.h3h.ln@fenelon.com> Pete Fenelon wrote:> Helicon_One <shinybluething@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:>> Question: Is F1 big enough, and free enough of serious competition, >> to survive a split into two rival factions? CART (Indycar) evidently >> wasn't, and a possible split in the F1 camp is often predicted to be >> a disaster on a similar scale, but on a global scale, is there >> enough support for 2 series?> No, not without serious damage. F1 presents itself, rightly or wrongly,> as "the pinnacle". There can't be two of them! Either one or both> series would be regarded as missing too many of the "names"... Maybe to start with but I think they could grow. Some of the names will be there sooner or later. The difference in this one would be that the new series would be views as the good guys and not the bad ones as the IRL were/are. F1 could face serious competition and it's more than likely to happen. Not for sure of course, but I'd be surprised if it didn't... -- Cheers Dennis Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply
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Paul-B 26 May 2005 10:59:07 [ permanent link ]
	Pete Fenelon wrote: No, not without serious damage. F1 presents itself, rightly or> wrongly, as "the pinnacle". There can't be two of them! "We crossed the twin peaks of the Lollobrigida mountains..." From "The Goon Show" For those who are too young to remember: http://www.lollobrigida.de/ginaII_english/index.html
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David Melville 26 May 2005 12:07:15 [ permanent link ]
	On 26 May 2005 06:59:07 GMT, "Paul-B" <null@null.invalid.com> wrote: Pete Fenelon wrote:> No, not without serious damage. F1 presents itself, rightly or>> wrongly, as "the pinnacle". There can't be two of them!> "We crossed the twin peaks of the Lollobrigida mountains..."> From "The Goon Show"> For those who are too young to remember:> http://www.lollobrigida.de/ginaII_english/index.html Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee YUCKADEEEEEE! Cheers, Dave ------------------------------------------------ "I'd sell my soul for a Formula One racing car". "Bart! Stop pestering Satan!" ------------------------------------------------
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David Melville 26 May 2005 12:07:55 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:07:15 +1000, David Melville <spamaway@optusnet.com.au> wrote: On 26 May 2005 06:59:07 GMT, "Paul-B" <null@null.invalid.com> wrote:> Pete Fenelon wrote:>> No, not without serious damage. F1 presents itself, rightly or>>> wrongly, as "the pinnacle". There can't be two of them!>> "We crossed the twin peaks of the Lollobrigida mountains...">> From "The Goon Show">> For those who are too young to remember:>> http://www.lollobrigida.de/ginaII_english/index.html>Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee YUCKADEEEEEE!> Cheers,> Dave> ------------------------------------------------>"I'd sell my soul for a Formula One racing car".> "Bart! Stop pestering Satan!">------------------------------------------------ Lurgi Strikes Bernie? Cheers, Dave ------------------------------------------------ "I'd sell my soul for a Formula One racing car". "Bart! Stop pestering Satan!" ------------------------------------------------
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Pete Fenelon 26 May 2005 19:39:32 [ permanent link ]
	Ruddell <ruddell'Elle-Kabong'@canada.com> wrote:> In <2s036d.h3h.ln@fenelon.com> Pete Fenelon wrote:>> Helicon_One <shinybluething@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:>>> Question: Is F1 big enough, and free enough of serious competition, >>> to survive a split into two rival factions? CART (Indycar) evidently >>> wasn't, and a possible split in the F1 camp is often predicted to be >>> a disaster on a similar scale, but on a global scale, is there >>> enough support for 2 series?>> No, not without serious damage. F1 presents itself, rightly or wrongly,>> as "the pinnacle". There can't be two of them! Either one or both>> series would be regarded as missing too many of the "names"...> Maybe to start with but I think they could grow. Some of the names > will be there sooner or later. The difference in this one would be that > the new series would be views as the good guys and not the bad ones as > the IRL were/are. > F1 could face serious competition and it's more than likely to happen. > Not for sure of course, but I'd be surprised if it didn't... No, I think you miss the point entirely. F1 is predicated on being unique and isolated. Hell, Bernie's even made sure there are no non-championship races now. There's this little hermetically sealed bubble of identikit races with a closed-shop of teams and drivers. Once you crack that open, once there's "something else that's F1", neither of them can legitimately claim to be the pinnacle of anything, so both are instantly devalued. The existence of any "other pinnacle" destroys both. pete -- pete@fenelon.com "There's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" - HMHB
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Ruddell 27 May 2005 00:43:52 [ permanent link ]
	In <kjq47d.nnd.ln@fenelon.com> Pete Fenelon wrote:> Ruddell <ruddell'Elle-Kabong'@canada.com> wrote: Maybe to start with but I think they could grow. Some of the names >> will be there sooner or later. The difference in this one would be >> that the new series would be views as the good guys and not the bad >> ones as the IRL were/are. F1 could face serious competition and >> it's more than likely to happen. Not for sure of course, but I'd be >> surprised if it didn't...> No, I think you miss the point entirely. Really? Breakaway series it is isn't it? F1 is predicated on being> unique and isolated. And that's what F1 what it is, today. Hell, Bernie's even made sure there are no> non-championship races now. There's this little hermetically sealed> bubble of identikit races with a closed-shop of teams and drivers. > Once you crack that open, once there's "something else that's F1", > neither of them can legitimately claim to be the pinnacle of anything, > so both are instantly devalued. The existence of any "other pinnacle" > destroys both. Bernie has also stated that F1 is Extreme Capitalism and that of course means that competition should be expected sooner or later. Something else that's F1 would be just that, something else. Equally or better, I don't know, yet I do know that F1 today isn't what it was and well, has lost something along the way. A new series doesn't mean they'd be the 'new' pinnacle of motorsport, they'd just be a new series and yes, a competing series. A monopoly in capitalism is pretty much an oxymoron and maybe it will get extreme... -- Cheers Dennis Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply
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David Melville 27 May 2005 03:36:42 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 26 May 2005 20:43:52 -0000, Ruddell <ruddell'Elle-Kabong'@canada.com> wrote: In <kjq47d.nnd.ln@fenelon.com> Pete Fenelon wrote:>> Ruddell <ruddell'Elle-Kabong'@canada.com> wrote:> Maybe to start with but I think they could grow. Some of the names >>> will be there sooner or later. The difference in this one would be >>> that the new series would be views as the good guys and not the bad >>> ones as the IRL were/are. F1 could face serious competition and >>> it's more than likely to happen. Not for sure of course, but I'd be >>> surprised if it didn't...>> No, I think you miss the point entirely.> Really? Breakaway series it is isn't it?> F1 is predicated on being>> unique and isolated. > And that's what F1 what it is, today.> Hell, Bernie's even made sure there are no>> non-championship races now. There's this little hermetically sealed>> bubble of identikit races with a closed-shop of teams and drivers. >> Once you crack that open, once there's "something else that's F1", >> neither of them can legitimately claim to be the pinnacle of anything, >> so both are instantly devalued. The existence of any "other pinnacle" >> destroys both.> Bernie has also stated that F1 is Extreme Capitalism and that of course >means that competition should be expected sooner or later. Something >else that's F1 would be just that, something else. Equally or better, I >don't know, yet I do know that F1 today isn't what it was and well, has >lost something along the way. A new series doesn't mean they'd be the >'new' pinnacle of motorsport, they'd just be a new series and yes, a >competing series. A monopoly in capitalism is pretty much an oxymoron >and maybe it will get extreme... Does Extreme Capitalism mean that it competes fiercly, but only with itself? Cheers, Dave ------------------------------------------------ "I'd sell my soul for a Formula One racing car". "Bart! Stop pestering Satan!" ------------------------------------------------
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John Briggs 28 May 2005 23:25:08 [ permanent link ]
	Ruddell wrote:> A monopoly in capitalism is pretty much an oxymoron and maybe it will get > extreme... Not at all - capitalism always tends towards monopoly. -- John Briggs
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John Briggs 29 May 2005 03:51:16 [ permanent link ]
	Ruddell wrote:> In <oA3me.1490$Ri4.528@newsfe4-win.ntli.net> John Briggs wrote:>> Ruddell wrote:>>> A monopoly in capitalism is pretty much an oxymoron and maybe it>>> will get extreme...>> Not at all - capitalism always tends towards monopoly.> That's what many imagine, yet things happen which offer other choices,> or rather competition, and F1 is no exception... What is very common is the emergence of cartels - but cartels are unstable, because it is always more profitable to double-cross the other members. -- John Briggs
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Ruddell 29 May 2005 06:02:49 [ permanent link ]
	In <Ut7me.96$cN2.33@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> John Briggs wrote:> Ruddell wrote:>> In <oA3me.1490$Ri4.528@newsfe4-win.ntli.net> John Briggs wrote:>>> Ruddell wrote:>>>> A monopoly in capitalism is pretty much an oxymoron and maybe it>>>> will get extreme...>>> Not at all - capitalism always tends towards monopoly.>> That's what many imagine, yet things happen which offer other choices,>> or rather competition, and F1 is no exception...> What is very common is the emergence of cartels - but cartels are > unstable, because it is always more profitable to double-cross the > other members. So you feel that A1 may not work out due to some sort of secret agenda from F1? -- Cheers Dennis Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply
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Pete Fenelon 30 May 2005 17:23:54 [ permanent link ]
	ric zito <ADDRESS@in.sig> wrote:> Today's F1 is the epitome of decadence. Its extreme capitalist model is> in its final, twilight stage : bloated, corrupt, outmoded, and> ultimately self-eating. Think J-class yacht racing. That was an evolutionary dead-end too ;) pete -- pete@fenelon.com "There's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" - HMHB
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John Briggs 30 May 2005 17:49:48 [ permanent link ]
	Pete Fenelon wrote:> ric zito <ADDRESS@in.sig> wrote:>> Today's F1 is the epitome of decadence. Its extreme capitalist model>> is in its final, twilight stage : bloated, corrupt, outmoded, and>> ultimately self-eating.> Think J-class yacht racing. That was an evolutionary dead-end too ;) Endeavour, Shamrock V and Velsheda are still racing. Cambria has been re-rated as J-class under the new rules, and a replica of Ranger has been built to compete. -- John Briggs
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GYXU > F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally > Re: Breakaway Series? 30 May 2005 17:49:48

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