DK wrote:> *because the big unicycle honchos are like any other big cycling> organization like the UCI; they dont like progession and change. They> live in the past. *
THey have levels for freestyle,dont they?
I dont agree with that........
-- forrestunifreak - Mr. addict
Brilliance is like having 4-wheel drive.It enables you to get stuck in more remote places.
DK wrote:> *because the big unicycle honchos are like any other big cycling> organization like the UCI; they dont like progession and change. They> live in the past. * DK, tell us how you *really* feel. Were you speaking about anyone in particular? Some of us "honchos" read here.
The 10 IUF Skill levels, which are drived from the 4 USA Skill levels. In both cases, these levels were developed by *unicyclists* (not honchos) who decided they wanted a levels system. Later on, that system was ratified by the big honchos because it was the best list at the time.
In other words, us honchos are all ears. Show us your future.
More specifically, there is supposed to be a group working on a universal (or more wide-ranging) system for skill levels for many areas of unicycling. The group is under the leadership of Carol McLean from TCUC, and I can get you connected with her if interested. I don't know if her group is still working, or if they ran out of creative gas.
History: When the old level system was created (1-4, 1979 by Jan Layne), it was a set of "unicycle" levels. There wasn't as much to do with unicycles back then. No Trials, MUni, long-distance riding, or Street. Mostly it was clubs, parades, and trick riding. The original levels contained a speed element (ride a mile in under 8 minutes) and a prop element (ride while doing an additional skill).
When we reworked the levels in the mid-1980s (led by Sem Abrahams), the idea was to simplify it to all stuff that could be done in a gym. This allowed levels stuff to go on in all weather. But that did focus it more on Freestyle.
Level 1 MUNI - must be able to circumnavigate turbulent air on smooth trails without eating dirt.
Level 2 MUNI - must be able to drop off of a 6" root on an otherwise "smooth" trail (except normal "trail turbulence") and roll-out without eating dirt. Must also be able to jump a 6" log or other obstacle - with no ramp - and roll-out without eating dirt.
Level 3 MUNI - must be able to drop off a 6" root on a steeply declining hill of 5 feet or more and roll-out without eating dirt. Must also be able to jump a 10" log or other obstacle - with no ramp - and roll-out without eating dirt.
Level 4 MUNI - must be able to climb a 200 foot hill at 10 degrees -- "smooth" trail except normal "trail turbulence" -- without vomiting or eating dirt. Must be able to ride over a 12" fallen tree where the mountain b*kers have stacked logs to form a ramp and rollout. (Ride forward, not hop sideways.)
Level 5 MUNI - same 200 foot climb as Level 4, but with roots - lots of roots. Vomit ok as long as no one else knows. Must be able to tree-walk 30 feet along a fallen tree, then roll-out on the dismount.
Level 6 MUNI - must be able to hop across a creek on whatever rocks exist without getting your @55 wet. Falling in the creek is also a disqualification. Must be able to ride over a 24" fallen tree where the mountain b*kers have stacked logs to form a ramp and rollout. (Ride forward, not hop sideways.)
Level 7 MUNI - must be able to drop 2 feet down a severely knarly, rooted, steeply declining 8 foot hill, and roll out at the bottom with all of your blood and teeth.
Level 8 MUNI - must be able to ride back up Level 7 hill without voiding or other expulsion. Must be able to ride over a 36" fallen tree where the mountain b*kers have stacked logs to form a ramp and rollout. (Ride forward, not hop sideways.)
Level 9 MUNI - must be able to ride for more than 2 hours non stop covering more than six miles, and include each of the Level 1-8 activities in the second hour of riding.
Level 10 MUNI - must be able to complete Levels 1-9 without pads, contusions, whining or vomiting.
If you vomit, you go back a level. If you UPD, you go backwards on the trail 25 feet, and start over.
Last week while reading that Olimpic thread I was about to name the UCI and IUF in one sentence.
I've met the current president of the UCI (Dutchman Hein Verbruggen -who's also IOC member-) a couple of times. In his early years he experienced much resistance within the profesional cycling world. But despite he made MTB & BMX Olympic within no-time!
And so last week I though... what if the IUF just would trade in their name, and become part of this IOC recognized organisation, who's members (countries) all are have close relations with many federal (and other national) departments and organizations. Would'nt that make promoting and spreading the sport much much easier?
Yes, it certainly will involve new people, and adventually could make the sport very commercial (with all its benefits and even more disadvantages)...
And yes, I have seen what happened in the mid 80-ies to BMX and kunst-radfarhen/unicycling within national cycling federations in Europe. But this time we could surf on the wave of the success of Muni.
But.... would it be a tactical set? Or is the "I"UF gonne do it all themselfs?
Meanwhile we're watching curling and other joyfull activity on the silverscreen.
Yes, the USA, Inc. has been working on a skills system for Trials moves for over two years. We're near the field test stage, but we could use more input. It's a very difficult system to devise, and we've come a long way from the first rough draft we came up with many months ago.
It's called Technical and focuses on hops, drops, gaps, skinnies, and other skills.
It's part of an entirely new skills system that covers many more riding styles -- artistic, UW, giraffes, and others. The new system is much broader and more challenging. It also provides smaller steps for new riders, so it's easier to pass the first few levels.
Just let me know if you want more information. Riders from all over the world have helped develop the new system so far.
email: unicyclecentral at hotmail dot com
Thanks.
Carol USA, Inc. Skills Development Committee Chair
Bill, Carol McLean has been very quiet on the local and national level with her new levels system. I know she has been working very hard and has been emailing with a lot of people internationally -- BUT she hasn't been communicating this with the TCUC or USA officers.
It isn't so much that there isn't support - Carol hasn't shared her work with the USA officers. How can you support something that you don't know anything about?
I have a real problem with people associating the new system with TCUC. The really active members of TCUC aren't involved at all in the new system; the advanced freestyle riders of TCUC haven't been asked at all to help; the officers have no updates or information on the new system from Carol.
At the end there is a newly updated section on the U-system for rating trials difficulty. Check it out and tell me what you think.
We have debated back and forth endlessly about how to do a rating system for MUni (and why you'd even want to), because it gets way more complicated if endurance is added alongside technical difficulty, and also because many MUni riders could care less about a detailed difficulty rating system. The U-system came about, on the other hand, because of a specific need to rate trials problems for competitions, and because trials sections lend themselves to difficulty ratings in the same way as rock climbing ratings that are already established.
The U-system can also be applied to individual short sections of trail, since, when you think about it, all trails is basically an infinite number of trials obstacles linked together. It's not appropriate for longer sections or entire trails, though.
constance.cotter wrote:> *Bill,> Carol McLean has been very quiet on the local and national level with> her new levels system. I know she has been working very hard and has> been emailing with a lot of people internationally -- BUT she hasn't> been communicating this with the TCUC or USA officers. >
It isn't so much that there isn't support - Carol hasn't shared her> work with the USA officers. How can you support something that you> don't know anything about? >
I have a real problem with people associating the new system with> TCUC. The really active members of TCUC aren't involved at all in the> new system; the advanced freestyle riders of TCUC haven't been asked> at all to help; the officers have no updates or information on the new> system from Carol. >
Connie> TCUC President *
Connie-
Long time no see. I didn't see any connection in the text in this thread between Carol, the new levels system development, and TCUC. Carol is still an active member of TCUC and excessive involvement of TCUC members might make the levels system development seem somewhat biased. I view it as a good thing that she would be secretive about it and solicit advice almost entirely from outside the TCUC environment. I didn't see Carol asking for more support in any way, either. Perhaps those are the points you're trying to get across and I just missed them.
-Greg
-- harper - TANKED at GASWORKS
-Greg Harper
B L U E S H I F T
"My world view has come crashing down like a drunk clown on a giraffe, riding through a cactus patch..." -evil-nick on "Entry of the Gladiators" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ harper's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/426 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40086
Harper, Nice to talk again -- see you in Ohio at NAUCC?
You are right - there isn't much mention in this thread about TCUC, except for John's brief mention. I have seen other threads where the new system and TCUC are linked. To me, the previous references imply that TCUC is supportive of the new system. Which may or may not be true (I don't want to debate this point).
A minor niggling point (of which you are famous, right?): Carol IS a member of TCUC. AND a very active unicyclist (she has regular distance rides and private practices). But she would NOT be considered an active member of TCUC. Of course, this definition can be debatable: my definition is that if I don't see someone at a TCUC event for a few months, they are considered inactive.
Regarding support from TCUC - again you're right. Carol may not want TCUC's support. Which is ok - it is her choice. I would hope that other clubs are involved, in that case. The new system (if approved) will affect many people and clubs.
> The group is under the leadership of Carol McLean from TCUC, and I can> get you connected with her if interested. I don't know if her group is> still working, or if they ran out of creative gas.
John F, I'm a little confused.... You are listed as one of the> Directors of USA and are listed in several other leadership roles on> the USA site. Why is it that you don't KNOW about the work being done> by Carol McClean and the Skills Development committee? The Directors> should be in touch with what's happening within a small organization> like USA.
I have a real problem with people associating the new system with> TCUC. The really active members of TCUC aren't involved at all in the> new system; the advanced freestyle riders of TCUC haven't been asked> at all to help; the officers have no updates or information on the new> system from Carol.
I don't see how John could be in touch. About 2 years ago, I volunteered and was accepted by Carol to be part of the skill levels development, specifically working on MUni. I put several 100s of hours of work into the MUni skill levels. I contacted 10 top riders worldwide, developed several documents, went through a couple of drafts, and even got praise from Andy Cotter (a temporary committee member) for the evolving result. Many of the riders I was working with also put a lot of time in (many, many emails).
I got no reasonable feedback, constructive comments, or anything of the sort from ANYONE that was on the committee full-time. I finally stopped working on it in disgust out of being ignored, and apologized to the people that were helping me.
I was very sorry to see this happen, because the result was becoming something of historical quality, of a class of what Sem and past developers had done.
Without going any further, the comments about being secretive and> inactive are completely out of line.>
*
Sorry, Carol. Secretive was obviously a poor word choice. My intent was to suggest that you might be trying to avoid what might be construed as biased input from a club of which you are currently a member. Neutral would have been a better word choice.
Thanks for all the work you and others have been putting into this. My next-to-zero contribution reflects a level of involvement which pales in comparison to yours.
-- harper - TANKED at GASWORKS
-Greg Harper
B L U E S H I F T
"My world view has come crashing down like a drunk clown on a giraffe, riding through a cactus patch..." -evil-nick on "Entry of the Gladiators" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ harper's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/426 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40086
Concerning my earlier post.... I was not working with complete and thorough knowledge when I posted. My apologies, John F, if I was wrong in thoughts toward you.
I do find it frustrating that the USA, which appears to be the best organization for promoting unicycling in the US, seems to lack a unified direction with it's efforts. Time is too precious to be working without organization or against each other.
It's fine to send proposals to the IUF committee, but keep in mind that we need more than just Trials levels.
I'm not sure if the current IUF committee is considering the other shortcomings in the existing 10-level system, but I think that would be a good idea. It's important to look at several areas of skill development in unicycling.
The new skills system approach that we've been developing combines Trials with other unicycling skill areas, rather than creating totally separate segments in our population. One of our goals is to keep our small community together as much as we can. That way, a Trials rider who wants to focus on some other skills, such as Artistic, can participate easily in both, since it's a unified system.
It also keeps testing rules consistent across several different divisions. And offers comparable rewards to all riders, no matter what their specialty.
We've made a ton of progress on the Technical levels, but I feel they aren't quite ready to field test. If anyone wants to help by reviewing what we have, let me know. It does require a time commitment to understand where it's at right now, what the new rules are, and how it all fits together.
Thanks.
Carol USA, Inc. Skills Development Committee Chair
It seems that the easiest way to get lots of feedback and input would be to simply post the draft of the proposed levels and let people comment. That way people would stop feeling that they were somehow being excluded or that the process was somehow secretive. Of course, people on the committtee will (and should) weed out most of the comments, but I think that everyone will feel better about this if we had some idea what is being proposed. Of course some people will be unhappy because their comments were ignored, but that is unavoidable in any consultive process which will effect large numbers of people.
I responded with information to you on 12-17-04. I sent you the basics and asked you to review it. I said I was considering doing a workshop, and I said I was looking for people to evaluate parts of the new system. I expected to hear from you again, but you did not respond.
Your message on RSU is the first I've heard.
If you had comments to make or wanted to be involved, you should have replied.
It's true you originally said you wanted to become a member of the committee, but that was after the group had already been operating for over a year. I wasn't recruiting new committee members at that point (as I told you), but I've always recruited input. You don't need to be a committee member to help out. We have enough TCUC members on the committee, and I felt it was important to keep a balance with representation from around the country.
I'm disappointed in your comments. They aren't accurate.
But you can still be involved if you want. I would welcome your input. Contact me if you are interested.
Andy Cotter wrote:> *As for the Trials rating system, you could submit it to the IUF> Rulebook Committee and have it approved there. Then it will be> official for the IUF. I know this might conflict with Carol's skill> level committee but I think she is focusing on the USA. So, come up> with some skill levels for Trials, propose it to the IUF Rulebook> Committee, get suggestions from others, get it voted on and then we> have someting. It is much better then what we have right now, nothing.> Most likely it will need some work after people use it for a while but> that is all part of the process. Sometimes it is better to get> something on the books that needs a little work then have nothing.> *
I want to make a correction on what I said earlier about Trials skill levels. Kris Holm already has a system and it was ratified by the IUF rulebook committee earlier this year. Even though it was at the end of the proposal, I should have remembered it that it was Trails skill levels.
It's good to hear from you on this finally. I was surprised when I sent you the new FAQ months ago and you never responded. Did you receive it?
You also didn't respond last summer after the nationals meeting, so I thought you were not interested.
In the past two days, I think I've made it clear that the committee has asked for and received feedback from a number of riders in the general audience. I had hoped that I'd also made it clear that it's unrealistic to expect a large group to review some 250 drafts. If the committee hadn't been open to suggestions, there wouldn't have been over 250 drafts.
If you're ready to "dive in" now, let me know. As I mentioned, it's a time commitment, and I know you're busy with other things.
Please contact me and let me know exactly how much time you feel you can devote to this project. I welcome your input because you have a great deal of experience and knowledge about unicycling, but I have not heard anything at all from you over the last many months.
The USA Board members have multiple issues facing them now, especially getting the publication out, which I understand is still weeks away from being in the hands of the membership. Very unfortunate and a long-time problem that needs to be resolved.
Yet, I've seen no progress on this or several other issues facing the Board, and I believe these take priority over discussing a new skills system that is still in the developmental phases and is a long way from being submitted.
Still, I'll be happy to provide another more formal update, as I did at Nationals, after the Board has a chance to get moving on several of the more pressing issues.
As for your time involvement, I will accept whatever you have to offer, and I will contact you and send the information again. In fact, perhaps you can then help prepare the next report to the Board.
I'm glad you're willing to help. While you may not totally agree with the process, I'm sure you'll respect the tremendous amount of work that's gone into it already and will acknowledge that people have different leadership styles. I prefer to ask for help, and if it isn't forthcoming, I move on rather than let it drop. Maybe you would have handled things differently, but at least this committee has been active, while others have not (another major area of concern for the USA Board right now).
Finally, I can guarantee everyone that there is no secret plot to force through a new Skills System without a high level of support. That would be pointless. Everyone will have plenty of chances now and in the coming months to provide their input, criticism, or support. It won't be considered "final" until a lot more people feel comfortable that this new system has a chance of appealing to a vast range of riders and that it may help build our sport for the future.
If anyone has further suggestions, comments, or concerns, please contact me privately.
Hi all! I have been very busy with AP tests and student council elections that I haven't had an opportunity to continue addressing this issue. Carol, I am very disappointed in the way you are handling this situation and I have come to realize that we have complete opposite view points on the issue. I firmly believe that it would be necessary for you to post what you have done out in the open for not only the unicycle community to see but as well USA and possibly IUF officers for their opinions. I would also like for you to post the names of the people on the committee, including those from TCUC, so we can get their insight as well. Again, I believe that their could be great potential in a new level system but if you continue to single out some of the key people in the unicycle world such as Connie, Sue, and myself, you are only detrimental to yourself in the long run.
Ryan Woessner UNCION XI & XII World Champion 2005-2006 Capital Division and Irondale High School President
