After not being able to watch any racing for the last couple of weeks, I was looking forward to kicking back and watching the WSB races today. No such luck as the re-hab nurses showed up just prior to the start of race one and left a couple hours later due to the power being off!(T-storm) I didn't get to see much at all, but am wondering about the length of the track. For some reason I thought it was a "little" longer than what I saw today. What's the deal? Are there two tracks or am I confused?(again) In any event it was nice to hear that the Duc's, Laconi and Toseland had stopped the Gixxer train, if only briefly...
It was the mickey mouse short circuit, only Kagayama had raced on this one, made passing very difficult, the track suited the Ducs, nice to see Haga competitive again, Corser increases his lead in the championship after Laconi crashed out in race two.
"T3" <nowhere@nospam.com> wrote in message news:oxtme.80181$w15.13770@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...> After not being able to watch any racing for the last couple of weeks, I > was looking forward to kicking back and watching the WSB races today. No > such luck as the re-hab nurses showed up just prior to the start of race > one and left a couple hours later due to the power being off!(T-storm) I > didn't get to see much at all, but am wondering about the length of the > track. For some reason I thought it was a "little" longer than what I saw > today. What's the deal? Are there two tracks or am I confused?(again)> In any event it was nice to hear that the Duc's, Laconi and Toseland had > stopped the Gixxer train, if only briefly...
It didn't look too boring on Fox in Oz & the crowds looked good. Bummers
Julian Bond wrote:
Silverstone is utterly boring. So I think I'll only bother to go to > Brands Hatch now and then just for the day. Or go to the continental > circuits where they still know how to have a weekend to remember, > loosely surrounding some decent racing.>
Phil wrote:> It was the mickey mouse short circuit, only Kagayama had raced on this one, > made passing very difficult, the track> suited the Ducs, nice to see Haga competitive again, Corser increases his > lead in the championship after Laconi> crashed out in race two.
Thanks Phil, that explains a lot. I knew there had to be some reason for the Ducs being in the thick of it...
Just curious, what characteristics of the short track helped the Ducs?
"Phil" <ps006f3049@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:7Kyme.13591$Li.6667@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...> It was the mickey mouse short circuit, only Kagayama had raced on this one,> made passing very difficult, the track> suited the Ducs, nice to see Haga competitive again, Corser increases his> lead in the championship after Laconi> crashed out in race two.>
"T3" <nowhere@nospam.com> wrote in message> news:oxtme.80181$w15.13770@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...> > After not being able to watch any racing for the last couple of weeks, I> > was looking forward to kicking back and watching the WSB races today. No> > such luck as the re-hab nurses showed up just prior to the start of race> > one and left a couple hours later due to the power being off!(T-storm) I> > didn't get to see much at all, but am wondering about the length of the> > track. For some reason I thought it was a "little" longer than what I
today. What's the deal? Are there two tracks or am I confused?(again)> > In any event it was nice to hear that the Duc's, Laconi and Toseland had> > stopped the Gixxer train, if only briefly...>
S Frank wrote:> Just curious, what characteristics of the short track helped the Ducs? I have no idea what the short Silverstone track is about, never seen either one of them. But there must have been something happening there for the Ducs to be all over the Zuki's given they haven't been too close elsewhere this year, wouldn't you think? Just a WAG, but maybe it was Toseland's home track or something, or maybe the tight corners and short straights helped them tire wise, but like I said, it appears to have been something unique...
They just loolked a bit more agile, there were some really tight turns that seemed to suit them, but that's just my opinion from the TV, haga looked really strong at times carrying a lot of speed on entry
"S Frank" <lemmy999@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:dbba5$429b251a$186069d6$27717@KNOLOGY.NET...> Just curious, what characteristics of the short track helped the Ducs?>
"Phil" <ps006f3049@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message> news:7Kyme.13591$Li.6667@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...>> It was the mickey mouse short circuit, only Kagayama had raced on this> one,>> made passing very difficult, the track>> suited the Ducs, nice to see Haga competitive again, Corser increases his>> lead in the championship after Laconi>> crashed out in race two.>>
"T3" <nowhere@nospam.com> wrote in message>> news:oxtme.80181$w15.13770@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...>> > After not being able to watch any racing for the last couple of weeks, >> > I>> > was looking forward to kicking back and watching the WSB races today. >> > No>> > such luck as the re-hab nurses showed up just prior to the start of >> > race>> > one and left a couple hours later due to the power being off!(T-storm) >> > I>> > didn't get to see much at all, but am wondering about the length of the>> > track. For some reason I thought it was a "little" longer than what I> saw>> > today. What's the deal? Are there two tracks or am I confused?(again)>> > In any event it was nice to hear that the Duc's, Laconi and Toseland >> > had>> > stopped the Gixxer train, if only briefly...>>
Phil wrote:> They just loolked a bit more agile, there were some really tight turns that > seemed to suit them,> but that's just my opinion from the TV, haga looked really strong at times > carrying a lot of> speed on entry
To me, a larger question is why a "world" class event was racing on the go-cart track? Was it a question of access or was it designed by Phlemini as another "gift" to Ducati, if it was the latter, they used it well...
I agree that it is odd that the Ducs did so well all of a sudden. They did well at the last round, but that was more of a horsepower/ drafting track. I always thought that the tight twisty tracks were not good for the Ducs. Supposedly this is why they do not do well in the USA. They are generally much less agile and flickable. So they prefer the fast flowing turns of the European track. Of course E Bostrom does well at PPeak, but I think that is due to Eric and not as much the bike.
"T3" <nowhere@nospam.com> wrote in message news:d5Gme.83412$w15.74661@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...> S Frank wrote:> > Just curious, what characteristics of the short track helped the Ducs?> I have no idea what the short Silverstone track is about, never seen> either one of them. But there must have been something happening there> for the Ducs to be all over the Zuki's given they haven't been too close> elsewhere this year, wouldn't you think?> Just a WAG, but maybe it was Toseland's home track or something, or> maybe the tight corners and short straights helped them tire wise, but> like I said, it appears to have been something unique...
Laconi gets what he can out of the Duke but it doesn't lead to consistency. Maybe if Toseland is finally getting his head together we may also see some consistency there too. Both are good (great?) riders but the Duke seems to be outclasses by the equivalent sized Jap bikes. Bummers
S Frank wrote:> I agree that it is odd that the Ducs did so well all of a sudden.> They did well at the last round, but that was more of a horsepower/> drafting track. I always thought that the tight twisty tracks were not> good for the Ducs. Supposedly this is why they do not do well in> the USA. They are generally much less agile and flickable. So they> prefer the fast flowing turns of the European track.> Of course E Bostrom does well at PPeak, but I think that is due to> Eric and not as much the bike.>
"T3" <nowhere@nospam.com> wrote in message> news:d5Gme.83412$w15.74661@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...>
S Frank wrote:>>
Just curious, what characteristics of the short track helped the Ducs?>>
I have no idea what the short Silverstone track is about, never seen>>either one of them. But there must have been something happening there>>for the Ducs to be all over the Zuki's given they haven't been too close>>elsewhere this year, wouldn't you think?>>Just a WAG, but maybe it was Toseland's home track or something, or>>maybe the tight corners and short straights helped them tire wise, but>>like I said, it appears to have been something unique...>
Bummers wrote:> Laconi gets what he can out of the Duke but it doesn't lead to consistency.> Maybe if Toseland is finally getting his head together we may also see > some consistency there too.> Both are good (great?) riders but the Duke seems to be outclasses by the > equivalent sized Jap bikes.> Bummers
I get the impression that Ducati's problem is/was more with the riders than the bikes. Laconi has been pretty competitive in lap times (supeerpole 1-8-3-3-3 so far), just hasn't been able to turn it into points, which has always been his problem.
cheers Steve
S Frank wrote:>
I agree that it is odd that the Ducs did so well all of a sudden.>> They did well at the last round, but that was more of a horsepower/>> drafting track. I always thought that the tight twisty tracks were not>> good for the Ducs. Supposedly this is why they do not do well in>> the USA. They are generally much less agile and flickable. So they>> prefer the fast flowing turns of the European track.>> Of course E Bostrom does well at PPeak, but I think that is due to>> Eric and not as much the bike.>>
"T3" <nowhere@nospam.com> wrote in message>> news:d5Gme.83412$w15.74661@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...>>
S Frank wrote:>>>
Just curious, what characteristics of the short track helped the Ducs?>>>
I have no idea what the short Silverstone track is about, never seen>>> either one of them. But there must have been something happening there>>> for the Ducs to be all over the Zuki's given they haven't been too close>>> elsewhere this year, wouldn't you think?>>> Just a WAG, but maybe it was Toseland's home track or something, or>>> maybe the tight corners and short straights helped them tire wise, but>>> like I said, it appears to have been something unique...>>
Bummers wrote:>> Laconi gets what he can out of the Duke but it doesn't lead to >> consistency.>> Maybe if Toseland is finally getting his head together we may also see >> some consistency there too.>> Both are good (great?) riders but the Duke seems to be outclasses by >> the equivalent sized Jap bikes.
I get the impression that Ducati's problem is/was more with the riders > than the bikes. Laconi has been pretty competitive in lap times > (supeerpole 1-8-3-3-3 so far), just hasn't been able to turn it into > points, which has always been his problem.
Yeah, I don't see where the Ducatis are being squeezed too much by the new rules. The bike doesn't seem to handle quite as sharply as the Suzukis, but the 999 has always been a bit of a dog in that area. I don't really see a power deficiency, though.
S Frank wrote:>>> I agree that it is odd that the Ducs did so well all of a sudden.>>> They did well at the last round, but that was more of a horsepower/>>> drafting track. I always thought that the tight twisty tracks were not>>> good for the Ducs. Supposedly this is why they do not do well in>>> the USA. They are generally much less agile and flickable. So they>>> prefer the fast flowing turns of the European track.>>> Of course E Bostrom does well at PPeak, but I think that is due to>>> Eric and not as much the bike.
In the longer run the Ducati's advantage has always been in a straight line, getting off the corners well and losing nothing on top, but maybe not being as agile as the fours in general. That doesn't have much to do with any lack of success in the US, however. More of their success has come at places like Road America and Brainerd, it's true, but their issue here since '94 have been a combination of the Daytona curse, the points system and other AMA rules that haven't favored them as much as in WSB, some quixotic behavior by the Ferracci team, and a lack of factory commitment for a while after 2000. Gobert showed in '99 what a top Ducati could do in the AMA.
Which raises another point. SB mostly comes down to Ducati and Suzuki at this point (Vermuelen the exception), whether it's in WSB or in the AMA, where both sides use essentially identical factory machines. In WSB the Ducs have managed to catch Corser, having beaten him three races in a row. In the AMA Bostrom did beat the Suzukis at "EBIR", but that's really just Eric's mastery of that track. Hodgson, who I would guess most would say is the best rider on a Ducati SB worldwide, hasn't come close to beating Mladin yet, finishing 3.5, 44.4, 10.7 and 18.8 seconds behind in races both have finished, and was getting killed in Fortuna 1 and PPIR when mechanicals hit their bikes. And the closest he's gotten in qualifying has been just under a half second at PPIR, and that a 54-second lap.
Hodgson has the disadvantage of being new to the series, of course, but not the bike, not really the team, which has many of the same faces as Corse in '03, and not Dunlops, which he used 98-02. So what does that say about Corser and Kagayama compared to Mladin? Or to Yates and Spies for that matter?
Laconi gets what he can out of the Duke but it doesn't lead to >>> consistency.>>> Maybe if Toseland is finally getting his head together we may also >>> see some consistency there too.>>> Both are good (great?) riders but the Duke seems to be outclasses by >>> the equivalent sized Jap bikes.>
I get the impression that Ducati's problem is/was more with the riders >> than the bikes. Laconi has been pretty competitive in lap times >> (supeerpole 1-8-3-3-3 so far), just hasn't been able to turn it into >> points, which has always been his problem.>
Yeah, I don't see where the Ducatis are being squeezed too much by the > new rules. The bike doesn't seem to handle quite as sharply as the > Suzukis, but the 999 has always been a bit of a dog in that area. I > don't really see a power deficiency, though.
No they're right there among the best of the multi's top speed/BHP wise...>
S Frank wrote:>>>
I agree that it is odd that the Ducs did so well all of a sudden.>>>> They did well at the last round, but that was more of a horsepower/>>>> drafting track. I always thought that the tight twisty tracks were not>>>> good for the Ducs. Supposedly this is why they do not do well in>>>> the USA. They are generally much less agile and flickable. So they>>>> prefer the fast flowing turns of the European track.>>>> Of course E Bostrom does well at PPeak, but I think that is due to>>>> Eric and not as much the bike.
Pikes and EBoz aside, the combination of a tight track and the Pirelli's may have swung the day. If we're gonna see Hodgy dice with Mat this year, it should happen at Elkhart or probably not at all, It's about the closest thing we've got to a Euro type track...>
In the longer run the Ducati's advantage has always been in a straight > line, getting off the corners well and losing nothing on top, but maybe > not being as agile as the fours in general. That doesn't have much to do > with any lack of success in the US, however. More of their success has > come at places like Road America and Brainerd, it's true, but their > issue here since '94 have been a combination of the Daytona curse, the > points system and other AMA rules that haven't favored them as much as > in WSB, some quixotic behavior by the Ferracci team, and a lack of > factory commitment for a while after 2000. Gobert showed in '99 what a > top Ducati could do in the AMA.
Yup, once they blow DIS and start out in a barrel they seem to grasp at straws, instead of just soldiering on. And yeah, had the GoShow not imploded well, you know what I mean...>
Which raises another point. SB mostly comes down to Ducati and Suzuki at > this point (Vermuelen the exception), whether it's in WSB or in the AMA, > where both sides use essentially identical factory machines. In WSB the > Ducs have managed to catch Corser, having beaten him three races in a > row. In the AMA Bostrom did beat the Suzukis at "EBIR", but that's > really just Eric's mastery of that track. Hodgson, who I would guess > most would say is the best rider on a Ducati SB worldwide, hasn't come > close to beating Mladin yet, finishing 3.5, 44.4, 10.7 and 18.8 seconds > behind in races both have finished, and was getting killed in Fortuna 1 > and PPIR when mechanicals hit their bikes. And the closest he's gotten > in qualifying has been just under a half second at PPIR, and that a > 54-second lap.> Hodgson has the disadvantage of being new to the series, of course, but > not the bike, not really the team, which has many of the same faces as > Corse in '03, and not Dunlops, which he used 98-02. So what does that > say about Corser and Kagayama compared to Mladin? Or to Yates and Spies > for that matter?
Ya'know, the Desmo twin is probably *the most developed* racing package in the world, bar none. So whats behind Yosh's dominance, if it was just Mat, that would be one thing, but it's mostly the whole team and it's hard to believe they are "ALL" that much better than everyone else, so what's going on? It's "pretty much" a given that Hodgy's the best the world has to offer on the Duc, he's a savvy and mature rider and along with Eric's knowledge, the new tracks can't be that big a deal, so what is it? If it was just one thing, the difference would be so glaring it would seem to jump out at us. No, it has to be a combination of things and for the life of me, I can't seem to figure it out. Anyone have any ideas?
In article <fYSdnXh0wpAUbgbfRVn-vg@giganews.com>, menusbaum@NYETSPAMearthlink.net says...
Hodgson has the disadvantage of being new to the series, of course, but > not the bike, not really the team, which has many of the same faces as > Corse in '03, and not Dunlops, which he used 98-02. So what does that > say about Corser and Kagayama compared to Mladin? Or to Yates and Spies > for that matter?>
<smirk> The answer most seem to shout regarding Mladin is "traction control". </smirk> -- Tweak
Tweak wrote:> In article <fYSdnXh0wpAUbgbfRVn-vg@giganews.com>, > menusbaum@NYETSPAMearthlink.net says...>
Hodgson has the disadvantage of being new to the series, of course, but >>not the bike, not really the team, which has many of the same faces as >>Corse in '03, and not Dunlops, which he used 98-02. So what does that >>say about Corser and Kagayama compared to Mladin? Or to Yates and Spies >>for that matter?>>
<smirk>> The answer most seem to shout regarding Mladin is "traction control".> </smirk>
It musta been broke at Pikes, it looked like NASCAR with all those green flag tire stops!
In article <lZZme.85365$w15.40005@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, nowhere@nospam.com says...> Tweak wrote:> > In article <fYSdnXh0wpAUbgbfRVn-vg@giganews.com>, > > menusbaum@NYETSPAMearthlink.net says...> >
Hodgson has the disadvantage of being new to the series, of course, but > >>not the bike, not really the team, which has many of the same faces as > >>Corse in '03, and not Dunlops, which he used 98-02. So what does that > >>say about Corser and Kagayama compared to Mladin? Or to Yates and Spies > >>for that matter?> >>
<smirk>> > The answer most seem to shout regarding Mladin is "traction control".> > </smirk>>
It musta been broke at Pikes, it looked like NASCAR with all those green > flag tire stops!
Don't mention that, it spoils the traction control theory.>
How'd you do at R/A?>
The SV is not much fun in a mixed group trackday. Keep getting backed up behind parked literbikes in the corners, then they blast down every straight with more streaming by only to park once again. Best times for me were low 1:50s, which is still a bit off the pace for LWT novices. Need a TLR or Gixxer 750 for track days, I guess.
Times would most certainly be better in a setting with only other LWT motorcycles, but I don't know how much. Don't won't to go out and be a hazard to other racers. -- Tweak
S Frank wrote:>>>>> I agree that it is odd that the Ducs did so well all of a sudden.>>>>> They did well at the last round, but that was more of a horsepower/>>>>> drafting track. I always thought that the tight twisty tracks were >>>>> not>>>>> good for the Ducs. Supposedly this is why they do not do well in>>>>> the USA. They are generally much less agile and flickable. So they>>>>> prefer the fast flowing turns of the European track.>>>>> Of course E Bostrom does well at PPeak, but I think that is due to>>>>> Eric and not as much the bike.
Pikes and EBoz aside, the combination of a tight track and the Pirelli's > may have swung the day.
Pirellis?
If we're gonna see Hodgy dice with Mat this> year, it should happen at Elkhart or probably not at all, It's about the > closest thing we've got to a Euro type track...
More importantly, it's fast with a lot of acceleration runs, always a horsepower track. It's traditionally been a big Ducati track, with wins by Polen in '93, Picotte in '94, Gramigni in '96, Mladin in '97, Gobert in '98 and '99. And the VTR twin also had wins there in '00 (Nicky's first two SB wins) and '02 (Miguel's sweep). But Mladin has three wins there as well.
Hodgson's other big opportunity will come at Laguna, which isn't fast but does have a certain stop-and-go nature that has somewhat favored Ducatis in the past. And he has huge miles under his belt there. The loss of Brainerd will cost Hodgson a good opportunity, and then there's Road Atlanta. But Elkhart will be very big, with this a chance to see not only what Hodgson has but also Bostrom - has he figured anythng out? - and the Hondas - at least Zemke looked better at Sears and PPIR, Miguel swept Elkhart last year, and it is a horsepower track after all. Should be good.
Which raises another point. SB mostly comes down to Ducati and Suzuki >> at this point (Vermuelen the exception), whether it's in WSB or in the >> AMA, where both sides use essentially identical factory machines. In >> WSB the Ducs have managed to catch Corser, having beaten him three >> races in a row. In the AMA Bostrom did beat the Suzukis at "EBIR", but >> that's really just Eric's mastery of that track. Hodgson, who I would >> guess most would say is the best rider on a Ducati SB worldwide, >> hasn't come close to beating Mladin yet, finishing 3.5, 44.4, 10.7 and >> 18.8 seconds behind in races both have finished, and was getting >> killed in Fortuna 1 and PPIR when mechanicals hit their bikes. And the >> closest he's gotten in qualifying has been just under a half second at >> PPIR, and that a 54-second lap.>> Hodgson has the disadvantage of being new to the series, of course, >> but not the bike, not really the team, which has many of the same >> faces as Corse in '03, and not Dunlops, which he used 98-02. So what >> does that say about Corser and Kagayama compared to Mladin? Or to >> Yates and Spies for that matter?
Ya'know, the Desmo twin is probably *the most developed* racing package > in the world, bar none. So whats behind Yosh's dominance, if it was just > Mat, that would be one thing, but it's mostly the whole team and it's > hard to believe they are "ALL" that much better than everyone else, so > what's going on? It's "pretty much" a given that Hodgy's the best the > world has to offer on the Duc, he's a savvy and mature rider and along > with Eric's knowledge, the new tracks can't be that big a deal, so what > is it? If it was just one thing, the difference would be so glaring it > would seem to jump out at us. No, it has to be a combination of things > and for the life of me, I can't seem to figure it out. Anyone have any > ideas?
Although Yates and Spies are 2nd and 3rd in points they haven't exactly dominated in a Mladin-like fashion. Subtract Mladin and things look a lot like WSB (although the Hondas need to close up a bit and there are no Yamahas to speak of). So you really have to give Mat and team most of the credit here. The new tracks are probably a bit more of an issue than you say, and that team has only one year under its belt, that with one rider and on Michelins. So there is an adjustment there, but probably not enough to make up all that ground. If Hodgson's back next year and with Ducati (not a given - he could be in Yamaha blue), then we might see.
The SV is not much fun in a mixed group trackday. Keep getting backed > up behind parked literbikes in the corners, then they blast down every > straight with more streaming by only to park once again. Best times for > me were low 1:50s, which is still a bit off the pace for LWT novices. > Need a TLR or Gixxer 750 for track days, I guess.
It's really difficult to get any rhythm going with the big bikes blowing by you like that, hard to concentrate when you're worrying about some fool rear-ending you too!>
Times would most certainly be better in a setting with only other LWT > motorcycles, but I don't know how much. Don't won't to go out and be a > hazard to other racers.
I saw a couple of pretty good deals on "virgin" and fairly low miler Gixxrz of late, both were from the Atl. area too. A 750 is plenty big enough for any track, the trick is finding one that hasn't had the snot wrung out of it and there are a lot of spares laying around salvage yards when the need arises too!
I agree that it is odd that the Ducs did so well all of a sudden.>>>>>> They did well at the last round, but that was more of a horsepower/>>>>>> drafting track. I always thought that the tight twisty tracks >>>>>> were not>>>>>> good for the Ducs. Supposedly this is why they do not do well in>>>>>> the USA. They are generally much less agile and flickable. So they>>>>>> prefer the fast flowing turns of the European track.>>>>>> Of course E Bostrom does well at PPeak, but I think that is due to>>>>>> Eric and not as much the bike.>
Pikes and EBoz aside, the combination of a tight track and the >> Pirelli's may have swung the day. >
Pirellis?
Yeah, it appears as if the Duc's are easier on the tires under WFO acceleration and without a long straight to cool them off a little, the twins might have had an advantage. There has to be some reason for them to have gotten so racy...>
If we're gonna see Hodgy dice with Mat this>
year, it should happen at Elkhart or probably not at all, It's about >> the closest thing we've got to a Euro type track...>
More importantly, it's fast with a lot of acceleration runs, always a > horsepower track. It's traditionally been a big Ducati track, with wins > by Polen in '93, Picotte in '94, Gramigni in '96, Mladin in '97, Gobert > in '98 and '99. And the VTR twin also had wins there in '00 (Nicky's > first two SB wins) and '02 (Miguel's sweep). But Mladin has three wins > there as well.>
Hodgson's other big opportunity will come at Laguna, which isn't fast > but does have a certain stop-and-go nature that has somewhat favored > Ducatis in the past. And he has huge miles under his belt there. The > loss of Brainerd will cost Hodgson a good opportunity, and then there's > Road Atlanta. But Elkhart will be very big, with this a chance to see > not only what Hodgson has but also Bostrom - has he figured anythng out? > - and the Hondas - at least Zemke looked better at Sears and PPIR, > Miguel swept Elkhart last year, and it is a horsepower track after all. > Should be good.>
Which raises another point. SB mostly comes down to Ducati and Suzuki >>> at this point (Vermuelen the exception), whether it's in WSB or in >>> the AMA, where both sides use essentially identical factory machines. >>> In WSB the Ducs have managed to catch Corser, having beaten him three >>> races in a row. In the AMA Bostrom did beat the Suzukis at "EBIR", >>> but that's really just Eric's mastery of that track. Hodgson, who I >>> would guess most would say is the best rider on a Ducati SB >>> worldwide, hasn't come close to beating Mladin yet, finishing 3.5, >>> 44.4, 10.7 and 18.8 seconds behind in races both have finished, and >>> was getting killed in Fortuna 1 and PPIR when mechanicals hit their >>> bikes. And the closest he's gotten in qualifying has been just under >>> a half second at PPIR, and that a 54-second lap.>>> Hodgson has the disadvantage of being new to the series, of course, >>> but not the bike, not really the team, which has many of the same >>> faces as Corse in '03, and not Dunlops, which he used 98-02. So what >>> does that say about Corser and Kagayama compared to Mladin? Or to >>> Yates and Spies for that matter?>
Ya'know, the Desmo twin is probably *the most developed* racing >> package in the world, bar none. So whats behind Yosh's dominance, if >> it was just Mat, that would be one thing, but it's mostly the whole >> team and it's hard to believe they are "ALL" that much better than >> everyone else, so what's going on? It's "pretty much" a given that >> Hodgy's the best the world has to offer on the Duc, he's a savvy and >> mature rider and along with Eric's knowledge, the new tracks can't be >> that big a deal, so what is it? If it was just one thing, the >> difference would be so glaring it would seem to jump out at us. No, it >> has to be a combination of things and for the life of me, I can't seem >> to figure it out. Anyone have any ideas?>
Although Yates and Spies are 2nd and 3rd in points they haven't exactly > dominated in a Mladin-like fashion. Subtract Mladin and things look a > lot like WSB (although the Hondas need to close up a bit and there are > no Yamahas to speak of). So you really have to give Mat and team most of > the credit here. The new tracks are probably a bit more of an issue than > you say, and that team has only one year under its belt, that with one > rider and on Michelins. So there is an adjustment there, but probably > not enough to make up all that ground. If Hodgson's back next year and > with Ducati (not a given - he could be in Yamaha blue), then we might see.
I didn't say they have, but they've had their way with him, for sure. Hodgy's one of the best SB riders around and when you have a rookie running around(over) with him, well you get my drift. Without any doubt, Mat's on a tear and who knows, maybe it's because of Hodgy! Maybe swapping wins with Miguel wasn't enough motivation to lift him to the level he's now at, I don't know. But It's safe to say, something is surely going on! I find it hard to believe it's all the team and/or the bike! It may be that because of Hodgy, Mladin stepped it up a couple of notches and brought Yates and Spies with him...
In article <A4%me.85371$w15.78731@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, nowhere@nospam.com says...> Tweak wrote:>
The SV is not much fun in a mixed group trackday. Keep getting backed > > up behind parked literbikes in the corners, then they blast down every > > straight with more streaming by only to park once again. Best times for > > me were low 1:50s, which is still a bit off the pace for LWT novices. > > Need a TLR or Gixxer 750 for track days, I guess.>
It's really difficult to get any rhythm going with the big bikes blowing > by you like that, hard to concentrate when you're worrying about some > fool rear-ending you too!
Especially when they zoom by then literally stop and wobble through the curve. And since I don't have ~150hp, they take off to be replaced by another set of slow curve wobblers.
Times would most certainly be better in a setting with only other LWT > > motorcycles, but I don't know how much. Don't won't to go out and be a > > hazard to other racers.>
I saw a couple of pretty good deals on "virgin" and fairly low miler > Gixxrz of late, both were from the Atl. area too. A 750 is plenty big > enough for any track, the trick is finding one that hasn't had the snot > wrung out of it and there are a lot of spares laying around salvage > yards when the need arises too!
If I do buy something else, it will probably be the TLR, as I prefer the twins. Plenty of track/race machines out there with all the suspension work done, and they can go plenty fast enough (think Trey Batey). But any racing will be done on the SV.>
btw-is that your VW?>
The burgundy one on the website? Yes. Not quite so pretty anymore, and the motor is blown, but it is "restin" in the shop, faithfully awaiting my attention to return to it. Too many projects, not enough time. -- Tweak
Yeah, it appears as if the Duc's are easier on the tires under WFO > acceleration and without a long straight to cool them off a little, the > twins might have had an advantage. There has to be some reason for them > to have gotten so racy...
Well, they were pretty racy at Monza, and that's about as far from Silverstone as you can get...
I didn't say they have, but they've had their way with him, for sure. > Hodgy's one of the best SB riders around and when you have a rookie > running around(over) with him, well you get my drift. Without any doubt, > Mat's on a tear and who knows, maybe it's because of Hodgy! Maybe > swapping wins with Miguel wasn't enough motivation to lift him to the > level he's now at, I don't know. But It's safe to say, something is > surely going on! I find it hard to believe it's all the team and/or the > bike! It may be that because of Hodgy, Mladin stepped it up a couple of > notches and brought Yates and Spies with him...
I think Mladin raises to whatever challenge he has. In 99-01 it was overcoming the twins' power advantage, in '03 it was overcoming his failed tires, in '04 it was overcoming his horsepower disadvantage to the Hondas, and this year it's Hodgson, Mr. World Champion, arriving with the factory team from Italy. Regarding Spies, he's a SB rookie in name only. He's only 20, but he's been in the series for five years (he was 9th in 750SS in '00), he raced in FX in '02 and '03, the latter on the same Yosh factory bike as Mladin and Yates rode in SB, and he rode in the SS classes last year with a machine disadvantage on the other factory boys. He's a guy with serious potential, and he's been around long enough to be showing it now. Yates, well, I ranked him as equal to Bostrom back in '99 when Ben scored a factory WSB ride, and he had more Suzuki SB wins than Mladin in as many seasons then. He had a horrible '04 after the Fania incident ruined his season, but I still think he's as good as anyone in the AMA with the exception of Mat and Neil. I said we might see a Suzuki sweep of SB this year a long time ago, and that's not just because they have the best bike. That team has some serious horsepower in the saddles...
Well, they were pretty racy at Monza, and that's about as far from > Silverstone as you can get...
Sure, it's a WFO deal like DIS where they were with everyone else in terminal speed but then the bottom dropped out, worldwide! In just a few races the WSB Duc's have seemed to have caught Corser, but there are absolutely no signs of that happening here!
I didn't say they have, but they've had their way with him, for sure. >> Hodgy's one of the best SB riders around and when you have a rookie >> running around(over) with him, well you get my drift. Without any >> doubt, Mat's on a tear and who knows, maybe it's because of Hodgy! >> Maybe swapping wins with Miguel wasn't enough motivation to lift him >> to the level he's now at, I don't know. But It's safe to say, >> something is surely going on! I find it hard to believe it's all the >> team and/or the bike! It may be that because of Hodgy, Mladin stepped >> it up a couple of notches and brought Yates and Spies with him...>
Regarding Spies, he's a SB rookie in> name only. He's only 20, but he's been in the series for five years (he > was 9th in 750SS in '00), he raced in FX in '02 and '03, the latter on > the same Yosh factory bike as Mladin and Yates rode in SB, and he rode > in the SS classes last year with a machine disadvantage on the other > factory boys. He's a guy with serious potential, and he's been around > long enough to be showing it now.
Oh, I agree he's got the (MGP?) look about him, he's being groomed, no doubt, all that aside, he's still a SB rookie! one who has had his way with a fairly recent World Champ, does that say something about him, the bike or both?
(Hmm, I'm thinking both)
Yates, well, I ranked him as equal to> Bostrom back in '99 when Ben scored a factory WSB ride, and he had more > Suzuki SB wins than Mladin in as many seasons then. He had a horrible > '04 after the Fania incident ruined his season, but I still think he's > as good as anyone in the AMA with the exception of Mat and Neil. I said > we might see a Suzuki sweep of SB this year a long time ago, and that's > not just because they have the best bike. That team has some serious > horsepower in the saddles...
Yates is Yates and for some unknown reason I never really cared for him, but there is no doubting his ability. Yes, that team is poked, choked and loaded for bear and it's showing too! I was trying to correlate something as to why the Duc's have become so racy of late, maybe it isn't wise to include AMA results, given the Yosh team seems to be light years ahead of everyone! On another note, if Hodgy is the motivation for Mat's overwhelming success it will be very interesting to see if he can maintain that level of whatever it is,(hate, vengeance...) season long, especially say after Mid-Ohio, or VIR when the title should be all but wrapped up. I imagine Laguna will have it's own motivation for Mat!
Well, they were pretty racy at Monza, and that's about as far from >> Silverstone as you can get...>
Sure, it's a WFO deal like DIS where they were with everyone else in > terminal speed but then the bottom dropped out, worldwide! In just a few > races the WSB Duc's have seemed to have caught Corser, but there are > absolutely no signs of that happening here!>
I didn't say they have, but they've had their way with him, for sure. >>> Hodgy's one of the best SB riders around and when you have a rookie >>> running around(over) with him, well you get my drift. Without any >>> doubt, Mat's on a tear and who knows, maybe it's because of Hodgy! >>> Maybe swapping wins with Miguel wasn't enough motivation to lift him >>> to the level he's now at, I don't know. But It's safe to say, >>> something is surely going on! I find it hard to believe it's all the >>> team and/or the bike! It may be that because of Hodgy, Mladin stepped >>> it up a couple of notches and brought Yates and Spies with him...>>
Regarding Spies, he's a SB rookie in>
name only. He's only 20, but he's been in the series for five years >> (he was 9th in 750SS in '00), he raced in FX in '02 and '03, the >> latter on the same Yosh factory bike as Mladin and Yates rode in SB, >> and he rode in the SS classes last year with a machine disadvantage on >> the other factory boys. He's a guy with serious potential, and he's >> been around long enough to be showing it now.>
Oh, I agree he's got the (MGP?) look about him, he's being groomed, no > doubt, all that aside, he's still a SB rookie! one who has had his way > with a fairly recent World Champ, does that say something about him, the > bike or both?>
(Hmm, I'm thinking both)>
Yates, well, I ranked him as equal to>
Bostrom back in '99 when Ben scored a factory WSB ride, and he had >> more Suzuki SB wins than Mladin in as many seasons then. He had a >> horrible '04 after the Fania incident ruined his season, but I still >> think he's as good as anyone in the AMA with the exception of Mat and >> Neil. I said we might see a Suzuki sweep of SB this year a long time >> ago, and that's not just because they have the best bike. That team >> has some serious horsepower in the saddles...>
Yates is Yates and for some unknown reason I never really cared for him, > but there is no doubting his ability. Yes, that team is poked, choked > and loaded for bear and it's showing too!> I was trying to correlate something as to why the Duc's have become so > racy of late, maybe it isn't wise to include AMA results, given the Yosh > team seems to be light years ahead of everyone!> On another note, if Hodgy is the motivation for Mat's overwhelming > success it will be very interesting to see if he can maintain that level > of whatever it is,(hate, vengeance...) season long, especially say after > Mid-Ohio, or VIR when the title should be all but wrapped up. I imagine > Laguna will have it's own motivation for Mat!
Burgess and Doyle are at the top of their game and without any doubt contribute to the success of their riders. Even though the topic was Silverstone we had drifted into wondering why the Ducati's had seemed to have caught the Zuki's, when it was just about a given that they wouldn't be a factor at all this year, if anything, many expected the Honda's and Yam's to narrow the gap, not the Duc's. I'd bet there isn't any Oz guys on the Duc team. but who knows, maybe Corser an Yuki don't have any either!
Well, they were pretty racy at Monza, and that's about as far from >> Silverstone as you can get...
Sure, it's a WFO deal like DIS where they were with everyone else in > terminal speed but then the bottom dropped out, worldwide! In just a few > races the WSB Duc's have seemed to have caught Corser, but there are > absolutely no signs of that happening here!
Not following you there. Where did the bottom drop out? If Daytona and Monza don't count, then it's only Silverstone that looks different. That might be an aberation, and it might be just inspiration (they weren't that far off before). In WSB a lot of guys seem to be catching Corser, and Bostrom sure seemed racy at PPIR...
Regarding Spies, he's a SB rookie in>> name only. He's only 20, but he's been in the series for five years >> (he was 9th in 750SS in '00), he raced in FX in '02 and '03, the >> latter on the same Yosh factory bike as Mladin and Yates rode in SB, >> and he rode in the SS classes last year with a machine disadvantage on >> the other factory boys. He's a guy with serious potential, and he's >> been around long enough to be showing it now.
Oh, I agree he's got the (MGP?) look about him, he's being groomed, no > doubt, all that aside, he's still a SB rookie! one who has had his way > with a fairly recent World Champ, does that say something about him, the > bike or both?
(Hmm, I'm thinking both)
I do as well, but, not to beat it to death, emphasizing Spies being a SB rookie is a bit misleading, as he's had as soft a landing in the class as you can get. He raced the Yosh SB in FX in '03, he's been racing against Yates, Duhamel, Zemke, Hayes for years, he really hasn't raced Mladin yet, so that only leaves Hodgson, who no one here has really raced against before. I mean, it's hardly Hayden landing in MotoGP a couple years ago...
Not following you there. Where did the bottom drop out? If Daytona and > Monza don't count, then it's only Silverstone that looks different. That > might be an aberation, and it might be just inspiration (they weren't > that far off before).
I don't really know as I was unable to see much lately, but I remember Corser flat running away couple of times, ala Mladin. Being how it was the short course that might (or might not) explain it. Monza was a drafting deal and without enough twisties to spread the leaders out they were able to stay close and in the draft.
In WSB a lot of guys seem to be catching Corser,> and Bostrom sure seemed racy at PPIR...
That guy would be a threat on a tri-cycle at Pikes! Almost like his brother is at L/S!
Probably the best comparison will be this week at Elkhart, though I feel the time may be right for the Honda boy's to do something too. We'll see...
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