In article <jv8tv3lvthqrtm6fa8s5e2mf4domkgqk9k@4ax.com>, Magnus, Robot Fighter <Me@Key.com> wrote:
(That is, if anyone frequents the group anymore)
Tipped third strike into the catchers mitt, he's not got control of it
and while juggling it, tips it forward enough for the pitcher to
catch.
Is the batter out? The catcher never caught it.
He tipped it forward 60 feet?
It is not a strike out because it is not a foul tip.
=-=-=-=-= 6.05 A batter is out when
(b) A third strike is legally caught by the catcher;
Rule 6.05(b) Comment: Legally caught means in the catcher s glove before the ball touches the ground. It is not legal if the ball lodges in his clothing or paraphernalia; or if it touches the umpire and is caught by the catcher on the rebound. If a foul-tip first strikes the catcher s glove and then goes on through and is caught by both hands against his body or protector, before the ball touches the ground, it is a strike, and if third strike, batter is out. If smothered against his body or protector, it is a catch provided the ball struck the catcher s glove or hand first.
Rule 2.00 A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher s hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first touched the catcher s glove or hand. =-=-=-=-=
It is a foul ball.
=-=-=-=-= Rule 6.05 A batter is out when
(a) His fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder;
Rule 2.00 A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground. =-=-=-=-=
Don Del Grande 11 April 2008 06:11:43 [ permanent link ]
Magnus, Robot Fighter wrote:
Tipped third strike into the catchers mitt, he's not got control of it
and while juggling it, tips it forward enough for the pitcher to
catch.
Is the batter out? The catcher never caught it.
I want to say no - according to the Official Baseball Rules:
"2.00 - Definitions A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher s hands and is legally caught."
(Notice it does NOT say "caught by the catcher".)
"6.05(a) A batter is out when his fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder"
"6.05(b) A third strike is legally caught by the catcher"
A foul tip is a strike, but it was not "legally caught by the catcher". (Note that if the interpretation of "foul tip" is that it is caught by the catcher, then the batter is out, as it is a normal foul ball caught in the air.)
Erick T . Barkhuis 11 April 2008 09:00:47 [ permanent link ]
Don Del Grande:
Magnus, Robot Fighter wrote:
Tipped third strike into the catchers mitt, he's not got control of it
and while juggling it, tips it forward enough for the pitcher to
catch.
Is the batter out? The catcher never caught it.
I want to say no - according to the Official Baseball Rules:
"2.00 - Definitions
A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to
the catcher?s hands and is legally caught."
(Notice it does NOT say "caught by the catcher".)
"6.05(a) A batter is out when his fair or foul fly ball (other than a
foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder"
"6.05(b) A third strike is legally caught by the catcher"
A foul tip is a strike, but it was not "legally caught by the
catcher".
(Note that if the interpretation of "foul tip" is that it is caught by
the catcher, then the batter is out, as it is a normal foul ball
caught in the air.)
Comments?
Why isn't it simply a catch if it is not a foul tip? After all, it's a batted ball, caught "in flight" (see definition of "in flight")
BTW: The JR Manual says, it should be could BY THE CATCHER in order to be a foul tip. OBR doesn't say so. But...if it's not a foul tip, it's not automatically a foul ball! Can be a catch, too.
The Toth Family 12 April 2008 06:02:40 [ permanent link ]
"Erick T. Barkhuis" <erick.use-net@ardane.c-o-m> wrote in message news:MPG.22690eed312f09c19896e0@news.individual.net...
Don Del Grande:
Magnus, Robot Fighter wrote:
Tipped third strike into the catchers mitt, he's not got control of it
and while juggling it, tips it forward enough for the pitcher to
catch.
Is the batter out? The catcher never caught it.
I want to say no - according to the Official Baseball Rules:
"2.00 - Definitions
A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to
the catcher?s hands and is legally caught."
(Notice it does NOT say "caught by the catcher".)
"6.05(a) A batter is out when his fair or foul fly ball (other than a
foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder"
"6.05(b) A third strike is legally caught by the catcher"
A foul tip is a strike, but it was not "legally caught by the
catcher".
(Note that if the interpretation of "foul tip" is that it is caught by
the catcher, then the batter is out, as it is a normal foul ball
caught in the air.)
Comments?
Why isn't it simply a catch if it is not a foul tip?
After all, it's a batted ball, caught "in flight" (see definition of "in
flight")
The rules allow for a pitched ball that contacts the bat and is caught directly by the catcher to be a live ball strike and if the third strike to be an out on a foul tip.
If the ball is not caught, but is either trapped or deflected, the initial contact results in a foul ball. Catching the ball after the initial bobble is nothing more than a foul ball.
This is a special case that you should not try to compare with a bobbled fly ball finally controlled by the initial player attempting to make the catch or another player making the catch.
Remember, at one time the rule was that only the first fielder to touch a fly ball or line drive could catch it for an out. No caught deflections by another player for an out....
And the rules still say that if you trap the ball against your body, it is not a catch. The definition allows for a catch of a fly ball to only involve a bare hand or glove, and technically only applies to fly balls and not tipped balls. Hence, the differences.
Things change, but until they actually change the rule, it is what it is....
BTW: The JR Manual says, it should be could BY THE CATCHER in order to be
a foul tip. OBR doesn't say so.
But...if it's not a foul tip, it's not automatically a foul ball! Can be
The ball must be caught by the catcher to be a foul tip, under OBR and NCAA rules (the play you describe is a foul ball). Under FED, any fielder may catch it, as long as the ball hits the catcher's mitt first.
And, most of the discussion seems to occur on the various internet discussion boards, as opposed to this usenet group.
"Magnus, Robot Fighter" <Me@Key.com> wrote in message news:jv8tv3lvthqrtm6fa8s5e2mf4domkgqk9k@4ax.com...
(That is, if anyone frequents the group anymore)
Tipped third strike into the catchers mitt, he's not got control of it
and while juggling it, tips it forward enough for the pitcher to
Tipped third strike into the catchers mitt, he's not got control of it
and while juggling it, tips it forward enough for the pitcher to
catch.
Is the batter out? The catcher never caught it.
I want to say no - according to the Official Baseball Rules:
"2.00 - Definitions
A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to
the catcher?s hands and is legally caught."
(Notice it does NOT say "caught by the catcher".)
"6.05(a) A batter is out when his fair or foul fly ball (other than a
foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder"
"6.05(b) A third strike is legally caught by the catcher"
A foul tip is a strike, but it was not "legally caught by the
catcher".
(Note that if the interpretation of "foul tip" is that it is caught by
the catcher, then the batter is out, as it is a normal foul ball
caught in the air.)
Comments?
Why isn't it simply a catch if it is not a foul tip?
After all, it's a batted ball, caught "in flight" (see definition of "in
flight")
The rules allow for a pitched ball that contacts the bat and is caught
directly by the catcher to be a live ball strike and if the third strike to
be an out on a foul tip.
If the ball is not caught, but is either trapped or deflected, the initial
contact results in a foul ball. Catching the ball after the initial bobble
is nothing more than a foul ball.
This is a special case that you should not try to compare with a bobbled fly
ball finally controlled by the initial player attempting to make the catch
or another player making the catch.
Remember, at one time the rule was that only the first fielder to touch a
fly ball or line drive could catch it for an out. No caught deflections by
another player for an out....
And the rules still say that if you trap the ball against your body, it is
not a catch. The definition allows for a catch of a fly ball to only involve
a bare hand or glove, and technically only applies to fly balls and not
tipped balls. Hence, the differences.
Things change, but until they actually change the rule, it is what it is....
Wow...I didn't know you could not trap a fly ball against your body or, say, have the ball pop off a basket catch and pin it against you body with your elbows or such....
So I'm not sure if I've followed, but can a foul ball off the catchers mask, (then say it goes straight up) be caught for an out?
What about on a third strike (no contact with bat) that deflects off the catchers mask and goes straight up? The ball hasn't touched the ground. Is that relevent? Can the batter try for first? Or does the ball have to touch the ground on a third strike for the batter to try and take first?
Tipped third strike into the catchers mitt, he's not got control of it
and while juggling it, tips it forward enough for the pitcher to
catch.
Is the batter out? The catcher never caught it.
I want to say no - according to the Official Baseball Rules:
"2.00 - Definitions
A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to
the catcher?s hands and is legally caught."
(Notice it does NOT say "caught by the catcher".)
"6.05(a) A batter is out when his fair or foul fly ball (other than a
foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder"
"6.05(b) A third strike is legally caught by the catcher"
A foul tip is a strike, but it was not "legally caught by the
catcher".
(Note that if the interpretation of "foul tip" is that it is caught by
the catcher, then the batter is out, as it is a normal foul ball
caught in the air.)
Comments?
Why isn't it simply a catch if it is not a foul tip?
After all, it's a batted ball, caught "in flight" (see definition of "in
flight")
The rules allow for a pitched ball that contacts the bat and is caught
directly by the catcher to be a live ball strike and if the third strike
to
be an out on a foul tip.
If the ball is not caught, but is either trapped or deflected, the initial
contact results in a foul ball. Catching the ball after the initial bobble
is nothing more than a foul ball.
This is a special case that you should not try to compare with a bobbled
fly
ball finally controlled by the initial player attempting to make the catch
or another player making the catch.
Remember, at one time the rule was that only the first fielder to touch a
fly ball or line drive could catch it for an out. No caught deflections by
another player for an out....
And the rules still say that if you trap the ball against your body, it is
not a catch. The definition allows for a catch of a fly ball to only
involve
a bare hand or glove, and technically only applies to fly balls and not
tipped balls. Hence, the differences.
Things change, but until they actually change the rule, it is what it
is....
Wow...I didn't know you could not trap a fly ball against your body
or, say, have the ball pop off a basket catch and pin it against you
body with your elbows or such....
Nowadays, it doesn't matter.
As I said, "At one time". It was long ago when deflections and fly balls trapped against the body weren't allowed.
The current way the rule is applied is that it is a catch as long as the fly ball is controlled in a hand or glove before the ball touches the ground or an object or a person other than any defensive fielder.
So I'm not sure if I've followed, but can a foul ball off the catchers
mask, (then say it goes straight up) be caught for an out?
Not on a foul tip, even nowadays. A fly ball in foul territoty, sure.
What about on a third strike (no contact with bat) that deflects off
the catchers mask and goes straight up? The ball hasn't touched the
ground. Is that relevent? Can the batter try for first? Or does the
ball have to touch the ground on a third strike for the batter to try
and take first?
OK. Either first base is open or there are 2 outs.
Relevant? Sure, The fact that ball hasn't touched the ground is very relevant. Provided it deflects off the catcher and he is wearing the mask.
As I said above, the ground isn't the only consideration. If the pitch deflects off the umpires mask and up for the catcher to make the catch, it is not a catch for the purpose of the 3rd strike rule, and the batter can attempt to advance to first.
The Toth Family 14 April 2008 03:05:37 [ permanent link ]
"Erick T. Barkhuis" <erick.use-net@ardane.c-o-m> wrote in message news:MPG.226bd41d31d55359896e1@news.individual.net...
The Toth Family:
So I'm not sure if I've followed, but can a foul ball off the catchers
mask, (then say it goes straight up) be caught for an out?
Not on a foul tip, even nowadays. A fly ball in foul territoty, sure.
But if the pitcher catches it, after it hit the catcher's mitt first,
it's not an out?
Which one???
How can that be?
On a foul tip? No, the pitcher can't catch it for an out. The catcher can't even catch the ball he deflected for an out.
On an actual fly ball in foul territory, the pitcher can make the catch if the catcher has the ball deflect off his glove, or even the mask (as long as he hasn't removed it from his head). Same for a 1st baseman, 3rd baseman, etc.
The foul tip rule says from the bat direct and to the catchers mitt for the catch.
A foul fly ball can be caught by any defensive fielder, including the 2nd baseman, short stop or even the center fielder, including deflected balls, as far fetched as that ever happening seems.
So I'm not sure if I've followed, but can a foul ball off the catchers
mask, (then say it goes straight up) be caught for an out?
Not on a foul tip, even nowadays. A fly ball in foul territoty, sure.
But if the pitcher catches it, after it hit the catcher's mitt first,
it's not an out?
Which one???
Not sure I understand the question.
How can that be?
On a foul tip? No, the pitcher can't catch it for an out. The catcher can't
even catch the ball he deflected for an out.
On an actual fly ball in foul territory, the pitcher can make the catch if
the catcher has the ball deflect off his glove, or even the mask (as long as
he hasn't removed it from his head).
Same for a 1st baseman, 3rd baseman, etc.
The foul tip rule says from the bat direct and to the catchers mitt for the
catch.
Well, something's wrong, here.
Let's first get rid of the foul tip. We agree, it's not a foul tip if the catcher doesn't catch it, regardless whether or not it hit his mitt first.
Now, since you're saying it's a foul ball, it must at least be a _batted_ ball, right? And because it's not a fair batted live ball, there are only two options: a catch or a foul ball.
If it hits the catcher somehow, and is then caught by the pitcher, it has never touched the ground nor any other foreign object in foul territory. It has only touched fielders. By definition, a foul ball must settle on the ground before first and third, or hit any foreign object in foul territory. This one hasnn't. It's been a batted ball "in flight" all the way.
Therefore, it simply can't be a foul ball. There's no definition of foul ball for a batted ball that doesn't touch anything but fielders.
Binyamin Dissen 14 April 2008 10:46:08 [ permanent link ]
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:13:10 +0200 Erick T. Barkhuis <erick.usenet@ardane.c-o-m> wrote:
:>The Toth Family: :>> "Erick T. Barkhuis" <erick.use-net@ardane.c-o-m> wrote in message :>> news:MPG.226bd41d31d55359896e1@news.individual.net... :>> > The Toth Family:
:>> >> > So I'm not sure if I've followed, but can a foul ball off the catchers :>> >> > mask, (then say it goes straight up) be caught for an out?
:>> >> Not on a foul tip, even nowadays. A fly ball in foul territoty, sure.
:>> > But if the pitcher catches it, after it hit the catcher's mitt first, :>> > it's not an out?
:>> Which one???
:>Not sure I understand the question.
:>> > How can that be?
:>> On a foul tip? No, the pitcher can't catch it for an out. The catcher can't :>> even catch the ball he deflected for an out.
:>> On an actual fly ball in foul territory, the pitcher can make the catch if :>> the catcher has the ball deflect off his glove, or even the mask (as long as :>> he hasn't removed it from his head). :>> Same for a 1st baseman, 3rd baseman, etc.
:>> The foul tip rule says from the bat direct and to the catchers mitt for the :>> catch.
:>Well, something's wrong, here.
:>Let's first get rid of the foul tip. We agree, it's not a foul tip if the :>catcher doesn't catch it, regardless whether or not it hit his mitt :>first.
:>Now, since you're saying it's a foul ball, it must at least be a _batted_ :>ball, right? And because it's not a fair batted live ball, there are only :>two options: a catch or a foul ball.
:>If it hits the catcher somehow, and is then caught by the pitcher, it has :>never touched the ground nor any other foreign object in foul territory. :>It has only touched fielders. :>By definition, a foul ball must settle on the ground before first and :>third, or hit any foreign object in foul territory. :>This one hasnn't. It's been a batted ball "in flight" all the way.
:>Therefore, it simply can't be a foul ball. There's no definition of foul :>ball for a batted ball that doesn't touch anything but fielders.
Case:
Bunt attempt is a bit of a liner. Rushing 3rd baseman goes into foul territory, attempts a catch and it bounces off of him (or his mitt) into short left (where it rolls to a stop).
This ball has not settled on the ground before first or third, did not contact the ground or any foreign object in foul territory, it has only touched fielders (before settling in the outfield).
Erick T . Barkhuis 14 April 2008 11:09:12 [ permanent link ]
Binyamin Dissen:
[snipped claim for brevity. This is about a 'tipped' ball that goes off the ccatcher into the pitcher's glove for a 'catch']
Bunt attempt is a bit of a liner. Rushing 3rd baseman goes into foul
territory, attempts a catch and it bounces off of him (or his mitt) into short
left (where it rolls to a stop).
This ball has not settled on the ground before first or third, did not contact
the ground or any foreign object in foul territory, it has only touched
fielders (before settling in the outfield).
Is this a foul ball or a batted ball?
I see your point. It's a foul ball, because it meets other criteria for a foul ball. But Benyamin, in the claim I posted, the ball was caught in flight and never touched the ground. My question was: how can that meet any criteria for a foul ball?
Does your play say anything about the situation at hand?
Binyamin Dissen 14 April 2008 12:20:49 [ permanent link ]
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:09:12 +0200 Erick T. Barkhuis <erick.usenet@ardane.c-o-m> wrote:
:>[snipped claim for brevity. This is about a 'tipped' ball that goes off :>the ccatcher into the pitcher's glove for a 'catch']
:>> Bunt attempt is a bit of a liner. Rushing 3rd baseman goes into foul :>> territory, attempts a catch and it bounces off of him (or his mitt) into short :>> left (where it rolls to a stop).
:>> This ball has not settled on the ground before first or third, did not contact :>> the ground or any foreign object in foul territory, it has only touched :>> fielders (before settling in the outfield).
:>> Is this a foul ball or a batted ball?
:>I see your point. It's a foul ball, because it meets other criteria for a :>foul ball. :>But Benyamin, in the claim I posted, the ball was caught in flight and :>never touched the ground. My question was: how can that meet any criteria :>for a foul ball?
:>Does your play say anything about the situation at hand?
I was questioning the foul rules that you posted.
In the case at hand - what if it is only strike one when the case happens? Foul tip goes off of catcher to pitcher.
It clearly is not a batted ball. Runners are not free to advance or be put out. And the batter is not put out. It is a dead ball.
It would appear that the foul tip on third strike is a special rule which requires a catch by the catcher. Otherwise it is a dead ball.
Erick T . Barkhuis 14 April 2008 12:42:31 [ permanent link ]
Binyamin Dissen:
In the case at hand - what if it is only strike one when the case happens?
Foul tip goes off of catcher to pitcher.
It clearly is not a batted ball.
...and that's what appears strange to me. Are you saying that a non- batted ball can be a foul ball? That's contrary to any definition of foul ball, isn't it?
It would appear that the foul tip on third strike is a special rule which
requires a catch by the catcher. Otherwise it is a dead ball.
Odd. Why a dead (foul) ball? It's not even batted, you say. But IF it's batted, it must be a catch. The ball was in flight and ended up in the pitcher's glove.
Binyamin Dissen 14 April 2008 16:05:37 [ permanent link ]
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:42:31 +0200 Erick T. Barkhuis <erick.usenet@ardane.c-o-m> wrote:
:>Binyamin Dissen:
:>> In the case at hand - what if it is only strike one when the case happens? :>> Foul tip goes off of catcher to pitcher.
:>> It clearly is not a batted ball.
:>...and that's what appears strange to me. Are you saying that a non- :>batted ball can be a foul ball? :>That's contrary to any definition of foul ball, isn't it?
Sorry, I thought batted ball was opposed to a foul ball.
:>> It would appear that the foul tip on third strike is a special rule which :>> requires a catch by the catcher. Otherwise it is a dead ball.
:>Odd. Why a dead (foul) ball? It's not even batted, you say. :>But IF it's batted, it must be a catch. The ball was in flight and ended :>up in the pitcher's glove.
Then why not the same result with less than two strikes?
Erick T . Barkhuis 14 April 2008 16:17:10 [ permanent link ]
Binyamin Dissen:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:42:31 +0200 Erick T. Barkhuis
<erick.usenet@ardane.c-o-m> wrote:
:>Odd. Why a dead (foul) ball? It's not even batted, you say.
:>But IF it's batted, it must be a catch. The ball was in flight and ended
:>up in the pitcher's glove.
Then why not the same result with less than two strikes?
I'm not saying that it should be any different with less than two strikes. I just said it's odd.
In my perception, whenever the ball is batted, and it isn't a foul tip (since the catcher didn't catch it) and it doesn't meet any criteria for a foul ball (ball didn't touch ground or foreign object), it must be a catch.
Of course, this would open up for misuse of the situation. A catcher could intentionally bobble a true 'foul tip' by not catching it, bouncing it on his glove while walking to the nearest fielder, and have him "catch" the ball eventually.
[It's nothing!] A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher=3Fs hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first touched the catcher=3Fs glove or hand.
So, it's not a catch on the rebound. It's not a foul tip. It's not a foul ball if it's still in flight (see definition of "in flight"). It's...errr...nothing. %-\
On 2008-04-14 07:05:37 -0500, Binyamin Dissen <postingid@dissensoftware.com> said:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:42:31 +0200 Erick T. Barkhuis
<erick.usenet@ardane.c-o-m> wrote:
:>Binyamin Dissen:
:>> In the case at hand - what if it is only strike one when the case happens?
:>> Foul tip goes off of catcher to pitcher.
:>> It clearly is not a batted ball.
:>...and that's what appears strange to me. Are you saying that a non-
:>batted ball can be a foul ball?
:>That's contrary to any definition of foul ball, isn't it?
Sorry, I thought batted ball was opposed to a foul ball.
:>> It would appear that the foul tip on third strike is a special rule which
:>> requires a catch by the catcher. Otherwise it is a dead ball.
:>Odd. Why a dead (foul) ball? It's not even batted, you say.
:>But IF it's batted, it must be a catch. The ball was in flight and ended
:>up in the pitcher's glove.
Then why not the same result with less than two strikes?
PBUC 1.22 - Foul tips must be caught by the catcher.
NFHS rules allow a foul tip to be caught by any fielder. The only requirement is that the ball go sharp and direct to the catchers hands FIRST and that the ball is caught before hitting the ground. In PBUC's interpretation, if anyone else catches it, it's a foul ball. In the NFHS rule, it's considered a foul tip.
So I'm not sure if I've followed, but can a foul ball off the
catchers
mask, (then say it goes straight up) be caught for an out?
Not on a foul tip, even nowadays. A fly ball in foul territoty, sure.
But if the pitcher catches it, after it hit the catcher's mitt first,
it's not an out?
Which one???
Not sure I understand the question.
Did the pitcher catch a ball that would have been a foul tip if caught by the catcher properly?
Not an out....
or
Did the pitcher catch a ball that was considered a fly ball in foul teritory that was deflected by the catcher while in flight and caught by the pitcher before the ball touched the ground?
This one is caught for the out.
How can that be?
On a foul tip? No, the pitcher can't catch it for an out. The catcher
can't
even catch the ball he deflected for an out.
On an actual fly ball in foul territory, the pitcher can make the catch
if
the catcher has the ball deflect off his glove, or even the mask (as long
as
he hasn't removed it from his head).
Same for a 1st baseman, 3rd baseman, etc.
The foul tip rule says from the bat direct and to the catchers mitt for
the
catch.
Well, something's wrong, here.
Why?
Let's first get rid of the foul tip. We agree, it's not a foul tip if the
catcher doesn't catch it, regardless whether or not it hit his mitt
first.
Agree.....
Now, since you're saying it's a foul ball, it must at least be a _batted_
ball, right? And because it's not a fair batted live ball, there are only
two options: a catch or a foul ball.
If it hits the catcher somehow, and is then caught by the pitcher, it has
never touched the ground nor any other foreign object in foul territory.
It has only touched fielders.
By definition, a foul ball must settle on the ground before first and
third, or hit any foreign object in foul territory.
You are missing some here.
A fly ball landing in foul teritory after passing 1st/3rd while over fair territory. It is foul even if it goes back into fair territory, under any circumstances.
Or has had contact with a fielder where the contact occurs over foul territory and then the ball touches the ground or any foreign object ( another fielder is not a foreign object ) whether in foul OR fair teritory.
Don't forget those......
And there is the old bugaboo of where a ball that bounces in foul territory before 1st or third, curves such that it is over fair territory when it passes 1st or 3rd and then curves back into foul territory to make the next contact. That one has never been difinitevely answered.
This one hasnn't. It's been a batted ball "in flight" all the way.
Therefore, it simply can't be a foul ball. There's no definition of foul
ball for a batted ball that doesn't touch anything but fielders.
Agree. and that is exactly what I was saying, but not in those exact words.
What you describe is exactly why the old interpretation that any fly ball must be caught by the fielder who first touch it to be an out was changed.
