[FB] Forward progress from the other point of view
Dustin Emhart 31 December 2006 21:01:04
We've been talking about forward progress, so here's a little spin on it, for everybody to think about.
Player B1 intercepts a pass two yards deep in the end zone. As he decides whether to advance or not, player A1:
(a) pushes B1 toward the end line, and B1 falls in the end zone;
(b) pushes B1 toward the goal line, and B1 falls in the end zone;
(c) pushes B1 across the goal line, and B1 advances to B's 5 yard line;
(d) pushes B1 across the goal line, and B1 falls in the field of play (with the ball on B's 1 yard line);
(e) encircles B1 and carries him into the field of play. On the 1 yard line, A2 also makes contact, and together they drive B1 back into the end zone.
(f) encircles B1, carries him into the field of play, and without unnecessary roughness, tackles him on B's 2 yard line.
Where is the ball spotted in each case? (a) and (b) are pretty obvious touchbacks, and I think in (c) it's obvious that B1 is making an effort to advance, so spot on the 5. But what about the other three situations?
-- Dustin Emhart c_fred@bellsouth.pottedmeat.net (No spam in my mailbox, so no spam in my address, either....)
Dustin Emhart 30 December 2006 05:23:58 [ permanent link ]
In article <1167436381.227414.160380@h40g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
(g) While A1 tries to pull B1 out of the end zone, B2 grasps B1 or> contacts B1 from in front, to keep him from being pulled out of the end> zone or to pull him to the ground.
By rule, when B2 grasps, it's helping the runner--and it occurred in the end zone. Safety.
In practice, I think that's going to be ignored; it's a mouse and not an elephant.* TPOAD tells me to ignore it, since A1 is not-fairly-but-not-illegally trying to disadvantage B1 by pulling him out of the end zone, so B2's really just trying to keep the status quo.
* And yes, actually, one of my referees used "We shoot elephants and leave the mice alone" during a pregame, to talk about only calling fouls that have a bearing on the game or affect safety.
-- Dustin Emhart c_fred@bellsouth.pottedmeat.net (No spam in my mailbox, so no spam in my address, either....)
Greg Richmond 31 December 2006 10:33:13 [ permanent link ]
"Dustin Emhart" <c_fred@bellsouth.pottedmeat.net> wrote in message news:291220062123587861%c_fred@bellsouth.pottedmeat.net...> In article <1167436381.227414.160380@h40g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,> <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:>
(g) While A1 tries to pull B1 out of the end zone, B2 grasps B1 or>> contacts B1 from in front, to keep him from being pulled out of the end>> zone or to pull him to the ground.>
By rule, when B2 grasps, it's helping the runner--and it occurred in> the end zone. Safety.>
the act of grasping is not a foul. If he has not aided the runner in going forward or not going to the ground he is not aiding. Greg
In practice, I think that's going to be ignored; it's a mouse and not> an elephant.* TPOAD tells me to ignore it, since A1 is> not-fairly-but-not-illegally trying to disadvantage B1 by pulling him> out of the end zone, so B2's really just trying to keep the status quo.>
* And yes, actually, one of my referees used "We shoot elephants and> leave the mice alone" during a pregame, to talk about only calling> fouls that have a bearing on the game or affect safety.>
-- > Dustin Emhart> c_fred@bellsouth.pottedmeat.net> (No spam in my mailbox, so no spam in my address, either....)
Dustin Emhart 31 December 2006 21:01:04 [ permanent link ]
In article <OIJlh.581$fY.28@newsfe05.lga>, Greg Richmond <g_rich@charter.net> wrote:
"Dustin Emhart" <c_fred@bellsouth.pottedmeat.net> wrote in message > news:291220062123587861%c_fred@bellsouth.pottedmeat.net...> > In article <1167436381.227414.160380@h40g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,> > <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
(g) While A1 tries to pull B1 out of the end zone, B2 grasps B1 or> >> contacts B1 from in front, to keep him from being pulled out of the end> >> zone or to pull him to the ground.
By rule, when B2 grasps, it's helping the runner--and it occurred in> > the end zone. Safety.
the act of grasping is not a foul. If he has not aided the runner in going > forward or not going to the ground he is not aiding.
Good point. Pushing B1 is just as much a foul as grasping him, since the act of aiding is what's the foul.
My observation was that grasping shows a little more...intent to aid the runner, as opposed to an innocent missed block which leads to contact. Or, *if* I'm going to call it, I'll call it for a grasp or *prolonged* contact more than just contact.
Though this is an odd case, by the rule book, since B2 is most definitely neither helping the runner go forward nor keeping him from going to ground!
-- Dustin Emhart c_fred@bellsouth.pottedmeat.net (No spam in my mailbox, so no spam in my address, either....)
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