"TandemFan" wrote: (clip) Does it make any difference at all, or are we going
to go faster?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Take $250 ot of your pocket, and the weight reduction will actually give you the same speed increase*. A LOT more if you do in in small change. __________________ *We are talking about a small change, aren't we? '-)
What's the scoop? Does it make any difference at all, or are we going
to go faster?
Someone needs to tell Pat Franz that it is "RANS" and not "Rans".
While the manufacturers in question are trying to meet a price point for their bicycles, they are not going to be putting junk chain idlers on their bicycles [1]. Therefore, while there is room for improvement, the gains will likely be small as drive-train friction is a small component of total non-conservative losses, even on a recumbent with a complicated chain-line.
If you want to make a RANS Screamer a lot faster than stock, put a front fairing (Zzipper or Mueller) and a bodysock on the bike.
[1] Unlike some defunct manufacturers of the past.
-- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
What's the scoop? Does it make any difference at all, or are we going
to go faster?
Someone needs to tell Pat Franz that it is "RANS" and not "Rans".
While the manufacturers in question are trying to meet a price point
for their bicycles, they are not going to be putting junk chain idlers
on their bicycles [1]. Therefore, while there is room for improvement,
the gains will likely be small as drive-train friction is a small
component of total non-conservative losses, even on a recumbent with a
complicated chain-line.
Why not avoid idlers and recumbents with complicated chain-lines?
It might not (yet) be possible with a tandem, but for a single
rider bike, cruzbike offers a short normal chain-line.
And introduces a whole other set of compromises in seating position, weight distribution, traction on steep hills, etc. Long chain lines are not necessarily a bad thing, as several issues with short chain lines go away that make wide range gearing difficult.
-- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
not necessarily a bad thing, as several issues with short chain lines
go away that make wide range gearing difficult.
Why would short chainlines make wide range gearing difficult?
Proper alignment between front chain wheels and rear sprockets becomes more critical with a shorter chain line, which makes things more difficult when using non-standard components.
A long chain line in combination with a idler tensioner (e.g. Easy Racers) or a mid-drive can allow for chain wheel and sprocket combinations that would not work on a short chain line unless custom derailers (sic) were used.
-- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
The angle at which the chain enters and leaves front sprockets and derailleur idlers is the sine of the angle which is the lateral offset between the two ends of the chain span divided by the free span length. Therefore, the longer the chainstays and the fewer the gears on the sprocket cluster, the smaller the angle between chain and sprocket plane. The angle causes lateral sprocket tooth wear and idler wheel wear.
The angle at which the chain enters and leaves front sprockets and
derailleur idlers is the sine of the angle which is the lateral offset
between the two ends of the chain span divided by the free span
length. Therefore, the longer the chainstays and the fewer the gears
on the sprocket cluster, the smaller the angle between chain and
sprocket plane. The angle causes lateral sprocket tooth wear and
idler wheel wear.
Indeed, which is why I would not deliberately ride in cross chain gears on my ATB with its 43 cm chain line (BB to hub) but will do so on my RANS Rocket with its 131 cm chain line.
-- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
On 28 Kwi, 00:37, Jon Bendtsen <no...@example.com> wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
Jon Bendtsen wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
TandemFan wrote:
[cross-posted to ARBR for Perry Butler's amusement]
[cuuuut]
not necessarily a bad thing, as several issues with short chain
lines go
away that make wide range gearing difficult.
Why would short chainlines make wide range gearing difficult?
Cross chain without guilt for instance.
Then combine a rohloff/nuvinci + a schlumpf drive == 0 cross chain.
No cross chain, but large expense.
Yeah, rohloff is expensive. Nuvinci is not so bad, neither are the schlumpf drive. Together they are, but you do get a VERY wide gear range with no steps, it is all continuously variable. I dont think i need more range than what the Nuvinci can give me, which is a little wider than the 8 gear derailure i have now.
If normal bikes can live with some cross chain, so can a recumbent.
Cross-chaining becomes much less of an detriment with a long chain line.
You get other problems with a long chainline. If something hits it trash or some plants.
But as you said above, it's a question about tradeoffs. I just dont like long chainlines. And neither those tubes they run in.
On 28 Kwi, 00:37, Jon Bendtsen <no...@example.com> wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
Jon Bendtsen wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
TandemFan wrote:
[cross-posted to ARBR for Perry Butler's amusement]
[cuuuut]
not necessarily a bad thing, as several issues with short chain
lines go
away that make wide range gearing difficult.
Why would short chainlines make wide range gearing difficult?
Cross chain without guilt for instance.
Then combine a rohloff/nuvinci + a schlumpf drive == 0 cross chain.
No cross chain, but large expense.
Yeah, rohloff is expensive. Nuvinci is not so bad, neither are the
schlumpf drive. Together they are, but you do get a VERY wide gear
range with no steps, it is all continuously variable. I dont think
i need more range than what the Nuvinci can give me, which is a little
wider than the 8 gear derailure i have now.
i forgot to mention that i eventually want a Nuvinci, so i might as well go for a bike that has a short chain line + you can actually mount a child seat, i havent found others that allowed that.
You get other problems with a long chainline. If something hits it
trash or some plants.
Most likely places of plant interaction with chain line seem independent of chain length, e.i., at chain rings, derailuers, idlers... And some recumbent designs with higher bottom brackets raise chain overall.
But as you said above, it's a question about tradeoffs. I just dont
like long chainlines. And neither those tubes they run in.
Fine, but don't presume that all long chain lines have tubes. For instance, the Easy Racers LWB bikes have chains about 2.3 times longer than "normal" but have no tubes.
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