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Touring bikes: Index or friction shifting?
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GYXU > Cycling > Touring bikes: Index or friction shifting? 26 April 2008 01:51:03
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Touring bikes: Index or friction shifting?

Guest 26 April 2008 01:51:03
 What would you go for and why?
Add comment
Guest 17 April 2008 00:57:22 [ permanent link ]
 bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:

Define "touring?" Are you going to be "touring" out in the jungles of
South America, Africa or Western China by yourself? Or are you doing
*credit card* touring where a van follows you and you're sleeping
every nite in a different hotel. Depending on how you travel may make
a big difference in ones choice.

More like credit card touring in the USA..... but still
wanting little chance of breakdown and complexity cause
I don't like to mess with things as they always break
at worst time such as at 2am or during a thunderstorm
while standing outside in it
Add comment
Guest 17 April 2008 00:59:40 [ permanent link ]
 Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatelier@oza­rkbicycleservice.com­>
wrote:

But why, oh why, would anyone, save for a Hobbit,
want to use a friction *only* shifter??

Well as I've aid in other posts I haven't been in
cycling for many years so NOT up on the equip available
today.

Maybe they don't even exist anymore? I don't know...do
they?

So maybe my question should be.... what OPTIONS do I
HAVE for shifter and systems now days?
Add comment
Guest 17 April 2008 01:03:42 [ permanent link ]
 bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:

Maybe they've been drinking (ok, reading) the kool-aid again:
http://www.rivbike­.com/article/compone­nts/shifting

One thing I have noticed abt the Novara Randonee I
bought was that at times the shifting isn't quite in
alignment enough to be perfectly silent..... makes
"meshing" noise as pedaling. I know of no way to
quickly make that "micro" adjustment to eliminate
that.... and it does irritate me.

However.... back 15 years ago when I did have a bike
and lost of riding, I remember friction shifting.....
and when things were not quite aligned I could manually
make that small adjustment so that it was.

See my point?

Maybe everything is index now? Friction no longer
available or desirable? tell me ok?
Add comment
Guest 17 April 2008 01:28:46 [ permanent link ]
 bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:

However.... back 15 years ago when I did have a bike
and lost of riding, I remember friction shifting.....
and when things were not quite aligned I could manually
make that small adjustment so that it was.
Try adjusting the barrel adjuster behind the rear der. Turning it like
1/4 turn clockwise until the chain runs smoothly.

How can I reach that while riding tho?
Add comment
Guest 17 April 2008 01:29:23 [ permanent link ]
 landotter <landotter@gmail.co­m> wrote:

However.... back 15 years ago when I did have a bike
and lost of riding, I remember friction shifting.....
and when things were not quite aligned I could manually
make that small adjustment so that it was.
See my point?
Not really. After the cables bed in, a bike should shift perfectly
indefinitely.

OK

Maybe everything is index now? Friction no longer
available or desirable? tell me ok?
It's available if you want it. Ultegra bar-end shifters are switchable
to friction or index, best of both worlds. About $70.

Cool!
Add comment
Bill Taylor 17 April 2008 07:30:47 [ permanent link ]
 I recommend barcons with index shifting. I have a Suntour 7spd
Accushift setup, 135mm rear, the wheel is hardly dished and therefore
quite stout. I use a KMC chain, Suntour der and freewheel, no problems
in thousands of miles. They are revertable to friction, but so far
haven't needed that. You should look at Sheldon Browns website, he has
some recommendations which boil down to strong and reliable.
BT
Add comment
Tom Sherman 17 April 2008 07:39:44 [ permanent link ]
 Ozark Bicycle wrote:
On Apr 16, 2:04 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
What would you go for and why?
I can understand wanting to use shifters with a friction *option*
(e.g., DT shifters or barends) as a backup in case of difficulties
whilst on a tour. But why, oh why, would anyone, save for a Hobbit,
want to use a friction *only* shifter??

Friction only works better on the front, especially when the front
derailer is in one's normal field of view, and non-standard size
chainrings are used. The SRAM Grip-Shift with about 9 clicks is not too
bad either, since it allows for easy "trimming". Three position only
Rabidfire (sic) shifters are a pain for anything but standard ATB cranksets.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
Add comment
Still Just Me 17 April 2008 08:54:41 [ permanent link ]
 On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:33:36 -0700 (PDT), Jay Beattie
<jbeattie@lindsayha­rt.com> wrote:

I rode across the US on a bike with 5sp friction bar end shifters --
and I much prefer my modern STI. And after all these years, STI has
never crapped out in the middle of nowhere or anywhere. I have index
bar ends on my commuter and don't like them because I have gotten so
used to being able to shift while standing and climbing. If I were
outfitting a touring bike, there is no question that it would use STI/
Ergo -- and if I were neurotic about it failing, then I would pack a
two ounce DT shifter just in case. -- Jay Beattie.

Real men like a little friction!

That said, and noting that my bikes are all retro-grouch friction, if
I was riding cross country I would likely choose something that I
could find replacement parts for in the majority of modern shops.


Add comment
Ryan Cousineau 17 April 2008 08:57:13 [ permanent link ]
 In article
<27f85147-ae84-40a9­-93ef-134c753009dc@2­4g2000hsh.googlegrou­ps.com>,
Jay Beattie <jbeattie@lindsayha­rt.com> wrote:

On Apr 16, 12:28 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.co­m> wrote:
On Apr 16, 2:04 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
What would you go for and why?
Doesn't matter much. If I found an old Miyata in my size, I'd ride
coast to coast happily on a 7spd freewheel with friction shifters. Or
not. If I found some 7spd bar-ends I'd use those, and if I got bored
in Missouri, I'd switch them to friction to have something to do.
Alternately, if I got a really sweet deal on a new bike with brifters
and a 9spd rear cluster--that'd work fine as well. More important is
that the frame is right, I got good heel clearance, and the thing
handles nice and stable, so I can take downhill naps.
I rode across the US on a bike with 5sp friction bar end shifters --
and I much prefer my modern STI. And after all these years, STI has
never crapped out in the middle of nowhere or anywhere. I have index
bar ends on my commuter and don't like them because I have gotten so
used to being able to shift while standing and climbing. If I were
outfitting a touring bike, there is no question that it would use STI/
Ergo -- and if I were neurotic about it failing, then I would pack a
two ounce DT shifter just in case. -- Jay Beattie.

If I may make the contrary case, I enthusiastically race road bikes and
MTBs with various indexed drivetrains (Campy and Shimano 9 on the road,
XT 8-speed on the MTB). It's great.

But my daily commute is committed on a very boring Miyata 210 tourer
with a 5-speed rear cluster (14-26? 14-28? I have no idea) and a triple
up front. It also gets mileage as my winter training bike (fenders).

I don't really miss indexing on that bike.

Experiments with other non-indexed bikes have suggested that
friction-shifting a 7-speed cluster, even with Hyperglide teeth, is
mildly tricky. I'd prefer to use a 6-speed cluster on a
friction-shifting bike, though the Mega-7 freewheels might tip the
balance in a particular application owing to their bail-out cog and nice
internals.

All things being equal, the shifting doesn't matter. On a dedicated
tourer, I would opt for a skookum rear hub and axle (that seems to mean
Deore-to-XT as a mainstream choice), then pick gears to match the
application, then grab whatever shifter worked and was at hand.

That's my long-winded way of saying that the shifting method on a tourer
hardly matters (among likely means) and is largely a matter of taste.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcol­a.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing­
Add comment
Tim McNamara 17 April 2008 18:08:05 [ permanent link ]
 In article
<27f85147-ae84-40a9­-93ef-134c753009dc@2­4g2000hsh.googlegrou­ps.com>,
Jay Beattie <jbeattie@lindsayha­rt.com> wrote:

I rode across the US on a bike with 5sp friction bar end shifters --
and I much prefer my modern STI.

Tastes are different. I adopted STI in 1992 and then switched to Ergo
because I didn't like STI's laterally moving brake lever. I used those
through 2005 when I went back to downtube friction shifting on my bikes.
I just like it better. It's nice there are options.
Add comment
Lou Holtman 17 April 2008 19:50:29 [ permanent link ]
 frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
On Apr 17, 12:54 am, still just me <wheeledBobNOS...@y­ahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:33:36 -0700 (PDT), Jay Beattie
<jbeat...@lindsayha­rt.com> wrote:
I rode across the US on a bike with 5sp friction bar end shifters --
and I much prefer my modern STI. And after all these years, STI has
never crapped out in the middle of nowhere or anywhere. I have index
bar ends on my commuter and don't like them because I have gotten so
used to being able to shift while standing and climbing. If I were
outfitting a touring bike, there is no question that it would use STI/
Ergo -- and if I were neurotic about it failing, then I would pack a
two ounce DT shifter just in case. -- Jay Beattie.
Real men like a little friction!
That said, and noting that my bikes are all retro-grouch friction, if
I was riding cross country I would likely choose something that I
could find replacement parts for in the majority of modern shops.
My coast-to-coast a couple years ago was done with friction bar end
shifters. When touring, I seldom (if ever) feel a need for a "right
NOW!" shift while standing and climbing. It's a tour, not a race.

For most people it has nothing to do with racing. It is more convenient.

On that same trip, my daughter had STI. She had consistent, but
minor, trouble shifting to the largest rear cog. She ultimately
learned to always double-hit the shifter to make that shift. This may
have been because we were pushing the envelope on rear cog size.
(Sorry, I don't recall the tooth count or derailleur model right
now.) But I certainly prefer my setup to hers.
IME, index shifting is stable and reliable on "normal" bikes.

It is stable and consistent off road in the worst circumstances in my case.


Lou
Add comment
Michael Press 18 April 2008 02:23:32 [ permanent link ]
 In article
<rcousine-EA177A.21­571216042008@[74.223.­185.199.nw.nuvox.net­]>,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com­> wrote:

Experiments with other non-indexed bikes have suggested that
friction-shifting a 7-speed cluster, even with Hyperglide teeth, is
mildly tricky.

I do not find this to be the case on a seven-gear 14-32
Hyperglide, down-tube friction shifter bicycle. Seven
positions over 120 deg of throw is easy to discern.

I'd prefer to use a 6-speed cluster on a
friction-shifting bike, though the Mega-7 freewheels might tip the
balance in a particular application owing to their bail-out cog and nice
internals.

--
Michael Press
Add comment
Guest 18 April 2008 19:33:13 [ permanent link ]
 Jay Beattie <jbeattie@lindsayha­rt.com> wrote:

I rode across the US on a bike with 5sp friction bar end shifters --
and I much prefer my modern STI. And after all these years, STI has
never crapped out in the middle of nowhere or anywhere. I have index
bar ends on my commuter and don't like them because I have gotten so
used to being able to shift while standing and climbing. If I were
outfitting a touring bike, there is no question that it would use STI/
Ergo -- and if I were neurotic about it failing, then I would pack a
two ounce DT shifter just in case. -- Jay Beattie.

OK thanks Jay!!


Add comment
Guest 18 April 2008 19:34:30 [ permanent link ]
 frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:

I have no interest in carrying an assembly of unrepairable wristwatch
parts inside my brake levers.

Are the insides of those combo brake and shifter levers
THAT complex?

serious question. That many parts in there?
Add comment
Guest 18 April 2008 19:36:03 [ permanent link ]
 frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:

BTW, I find index to be less reliable on a folding bike. Whenever
it's unfolded, the cables seem to need to go through their "settling
in" routine for the first, oh, ten or fifteen miles at least. During
that time, I can't count on one click generating one shift. And the
more complex cable runs make index a bit less consistent even when the
bike has not been folded for a while.

Thanks or that info Frank!!

A I have been thinking abt buying a Bike Friday NWT
soon!!

Sounds like I better stick with friction shifting on it
huh?

If yes....what system do you advise?
Add comment
Guest 18 April 2008 19:40:12 [ permanent link ]
 Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com­> wrote:

That's my long-winded way of saying that the shifting method on a tourer
hardly matters (among likely means) and is largely a matter of taste.

Thanks Ryan
Add comment
Guest 18 April 2008 19:45:38 [ permanent link ]
 Bill Taylor <william.taylor4@co­mcast.net> wrote:

You should look at Sheldon Browns website, he has
some recommendations which boil down to strong and reliable.
BT

Good idea!!

Heading there now!
Add comment
Rex Kerr 23 April 2008 04:09:25 [ permanent link ]
 me@privacy.net wrote:
bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
However.... back 15 years ago when I did have a bike
and lost of riding, I remember friction shifting.....
and when things were not quite aligned I could manually
make that small adjustment so that it was.
Try adjusting the barrel adjuster behind the rear der. Turning it like
1/4 turn clockwise until the chain runs smoothly.
How can I reach that while riding tho?

Many bikes have such adjustments on the downtube where downtube shifters
would have attached in the past, which can be adjusted while riding.

That said, I like friction shifting.

--
Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. (~1892)
Add comment
Guest 23 April 2008 19:32:08 [ permanent link ]
 bigjimpack@gmail.com­ wrote:

Brifters without a doubt.

I'm curious.... any stats on how many bikes are sold
each year with al the various systems?

Would be interesting to see what the top dog is sales
wise
Add comment
Lou Holtman 23 April 2008 20:50:21 [ permanent link ]
 Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecc­hios.com wrote:
On Apr 18, 3:14 pm, Rex Kerr <rexk...@gmail.com>­ wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
I can understand wanting to use shifters with a friction *option*
(e.g., DT shifters or barends) as a backup in case of difficulties
whilst on a tour. But why, oh why, would anyone, save for a Hobbit,
want to use a friction *only* shifter??
I honestly do not miss indexing when I don't have it, and enjoy the
flexibility of throwing any combination of parts together and having it
work well. Indexing is overrated.
Gotta agree with this. After working on bikes all day, last thing I
want to do is work on my bike. I think lever mounted shifting is
'essential' for racers, beginners and mountain bikes that are actually
ridden in the rough..for all others, it is firmly in the 'nice to
have, but not essential' catagory. IMHO, of course.


True, but it is also silly to scare people away from them because of
reliability issues.

Lou
Add comment


Still Just Me 23 April 2008 21:40:52 [ permanent link ]
 On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:50:21 +0200, Lou Holtman
<lholremovethis@pla­net.nl> wrote:

True, but it is also silly to scare people away from them because of
reliability issues.
Lou

There's no question that a complex brifter will be less reliable that
a simple friction shifter and the corresponding simple brake lever.

I notice that I see a lot of neglected bikes from the 70's in the
local dump and the shifters and brakes still work reliably. I don't
think that will be the case with 30-40 year old brifters.

But, the question, of course, would be whether the brifter is reliable
enough for your application.
Add comment
Guest 24 April 2008 01:00:11 [ permanent link ]
 frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:

I think STI's benefit/detriment balance works best for racers, who
seek every tenth of a second while racing, and who spend lots of time
maintaining their bikes to watch-like precision. I think STI makes
much, much less sense for somebody riding across South Dakota.

Good advice Frank!!

Thanks
Add comment


Lou Holtman 24 April 2008 01:11:34 [ permanent link ]
 frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
On Apr 23, 1:40 pm, still just me <wheeledBobNOS...@y­ahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:50:21 +0200, Lou Holtman
<lholremovet...@pla­net.nl> wrote:
True, but it is also silly to scare people away from them because of
reliability issues.
Lou
There's no question that a complex brifter will be less reliable that
a simple friction shifter and the corresponding simple brake lever.
...
But, the question, of course, would be whether the brifter is reliable
enough for your application.
Right. The problems I've seen have been on a touring bike, where it
always required two tries to shift to the lowest rear cog, despite all
attempts at adjustment;

Didn't you tell that on your daughters bike you pushed the limit on that
largest cog?

and on a bike that was in storage for a few
years, that wouldn't shift at all until about an hour was spent
flushing with WD-40 spray.

Wow, one example. Someone who leaves a bike unused for years doesn't
deserve better ;-)­

Compared to that, here's the count of problems I've had with other
shifters: Zero.

Frank, in more than fifteen years I had ZERO problems with brifters and
index shifters. Shimano, Campa, Sram and none of my riding buddies has.
How about that?

Now I'm not counting broken cables, which can happen with any
shifter. But they're significantly harder to repair with STI.

With good quality cables a broken shift cable is very, very very rare so
that is not a decisive argument either IMO.

I think STI's benefit/detriment balance works best for racers, who
seek every tenth of a second while racing, and who spend lots of time
maintaining their bikes to watch-like precision. I think STI makes
much, much less sense for somebody riding across South Dakota.

Convenience Frank, convenience. Some people like that. Has nothing to do
with tenth of seconds shift speed. Open your mind for once and stop
telling people hell can break loose when the use them on a touring trip.
Your daughter made through South Dakota didn't she?

Lou
Add comment
Michael Press 24 April 2008 03:56:50 [ permanent link ]
 In article
<2bccba1c-00ae-4f0c­-a613-2941535cb881@n­1g2000prb.googlegrou­ps.com>,
"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecc­hios.com" <peter@vecchios.com­> wrote:

On Apr 18, 3:14 pm, Rex Kerr <rexk...@gmail.com>­ wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
I can understand wanting to use shifters with a friction *option*
(e.g., DT shifters or barends) as a backup in case of difficulties
whilst on a tour. But why, oh why, would anyone, save for a Hobbit,
want to use a friction *only* shifter??
I honestly do not miss indexing when I don't have it, and enjoy the
flexibility of throwing any combination of parts together and having it
work well. Indexing is overrated.
Gotta agree with this. After working on bikes all day, last thing I
want to do is work on my bike.

Hello, Peter.
Work on it first thing in the morning.

I think lever mounted shifting is
'essential' for racers, beginners and mountain bikes that are actually
ridden in the rough..for all others, it is firmly in the 'nice to
have, but not essential' catagory. IMHO, of course.

I never had lever mounted shifters.
My curiosity was satisfied on some test rides,
and no desire arose for them. When building
a new bicycle I was strongly driven by appearance
and did not want the clutter on the bars.
Getting rid of banana cutters was a boon.
Why add cabling after that?

--
Michael Press
Add comment


Michael Press 24 April 2008 03:59:09 [ permanent link ]
 In article <480f68cf$0$6008$9a­622dc7@news.kpnplane­t.nl>,
Lou Holtman <lholremovethis@pla­net.nl> wrote:

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecc­hios.com wrote:
On Apr 18, 3:14 pm, Rex Kerr <rexk...@gmail.com>­ wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
I can understand wanting to use shifters with a friction *option*
(e.g., DT shifters or barends) as a backup in case of difficulties
whilst on a tour. But why, oh why, would anyone, save for a Hobbit,
want to use a friction *only* shifter??
I honestly do not miss indexing when I don't have it, and enjoy the
flexibility of throwing any combination of parts together and having it
work well. Indexing is overrated.
Gotta agree with this. After working on bikes all day, last thing I
want to do is work on my bike. I think lever mounted shifting is
'essential' for racers, beginners and mountain bikes that are actually
ridden in the rough..for all others, it is firmly in the 'nice to
have, but not essential' catagory. IMHO, of course.
True, but it is also silly to scare people away from them because of
reliability issues.

Where in the quoted material do you find that which you call silly?
Peter argues in the opposite direction.

--
Michael Press
Add comment
Rex Kerr 24 April 2008 04:14:21 [ permanent link ]
 Lou Holtman wrote:
Frank, in more than fifteen years I had ZERO problems with brifters and
index shifters. Shimano, Campa, Sram and none of my riding buddies has.
How about that?

While we're proving our opinions with anecdotes, I have a few to add. :-)­

The rear brifter on my road bike (Tiagara) is starting to act up.
Sometimes when I press the inner lever to upshift it binds and doesn't
want to shift and I have to wiggle the brake lever to free it up. It's
eight years old, but doesn't have too many miles because it's not my
favorite bike.

I had a bike that had SRAM grip shifters where the plastic sleeve that
it rotated on in the rear shifter went to pieces and had to be replaced.
I replaced it with Shimano thumb shifters. They worked just fine for
a while until they were put into storage. When they came out they were
gummy and would occasionally not shift down, there'd be no resistance
when pressing the thumb lever as the ratchet wouldn't catch. I cleaned
and regreased it many times and it still doesn't work every time, though
is better.

OTOH, SunTour barends, covered in grime and found in the bottom of a box
that somebody left at my parents' rental when they moved out worked
perfectly after a quick cleaning, as did the ones that I pulled off of a
bike that was wrecked and had a free sign on it, as did the ones that a
coworker gave me when he found them cleaning out his garage.

--
Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. (~1892)
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Jobst Brandt 24 April 2008 04:58:31 [ permanent link ]
 A shy person wrote (briefly):

What would you go for and why?

Who still makes friction retained shift levers and why should they?
The reason for indexed shifting is obvious and it applies to all kinds
of bicycle derailleur shifting. Hub gears have always been indexed.
I don't understand what a touring, racing, or dirt bicycle has to do
with the kind of shift lever is used.

I think the matter has been discussed here at length and there seemed
to be no support for friction shift levers. Beyond that. friction
levers have the same resistance to motion in both directions, variable
by how tight the retaining screw is tightened, while indexed levers
move freely in both directions, their hold being provided by detents
into which balls fit and prefer to remain.

Jobst Brandt
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Ryan Cousineau 24 April 2008 05:48:47 [ permanent link ]
 In article <filu04l90m7cfd67qi­11rl7q5ngq2ir9st@4ax­.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

bigjimpack@gmail.co­m wrote:
Brifters without a doubt.
I'm curious.... any stats on how many bikes are sold
each year with al the various systems?
Would be interesting to see what the top dog is sales
wise

About 100 million bikes are made every year:

http://quickrelease­.tv/?p=279

The US consumes 20 M of those.

China produces 79 M of those, and exports about 51 M, leaving 28 M for
the domestic market.

Actually, as I keep reading this report, the numbers literally don't add
up, so we're clearly in speculation or "other" mode here, but...

I think it's safe to assume that the plurality of all bikes sold each
year (if not the majority) are singlespeeds.

If you want to focus on the US market, and probably exclude kids' bikes
too, it's probably flat-bar trigger shifters, found on everything above
the cheapest models (which use very cheap-looking thumbies) in
departmentstoreland­.

If you're talking about "serious" "road" bikes, it's easy: brifters
brifters brifters. Nothing else even comes close, sales-wise, as a trip
to any drop-bar-oriented LBS would make clear.

The only thing that makes it even close is tri/TT bikes, which usually
use bar-end shifters at the ends of the aerobars. The existence of that
market is probably the only reason Shimano and Campy still make bar-end
shifters, and the fact that their current bar-end design is just a DT
shifter with a bar-end mount is the only reason you can still spec a new
DT indexed shifter.

New bikes with friction shifters? Ask Grant Petersen how many Rivendells
he sells that way, and he's probably around half of all global sales.

Somewhere in my glib summary the Sturmey-Archer hubs of the world may be
screwing things up with their vast mass of still-in-existence indexed
3-speed levers, but I have been typing too long to care.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcol­a.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing­, we coach them."
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Ben C 24 April 2008 12:10:26 [ permanent link ]
 On 2008-04-24, jobst.brandt@stanfo­rdalumni.org <jobst.brandt@stanf­ordalumni.org> wrote:
A shy person wrote (briefly):
What would you go for and why?
Who still makes friction retained shift levers and why should they?
The reason for indexed shifting is obvious and it applies to all kinds
of bicycle derailleur shifting. Hub gears have always been indexed.
I don't understand what a touring, racing, or dirt bicycle has to do
with the kind of shift lever is used.

The idea is if you're touring then you don't mind taking a few seconds
to find the gear. If you're racing you need to react quickly to attacks.
For mountain biking indexing is good because you're hanging on for dear
life over the rocks and can't so easily get the feel you need for
friction shifting.

I think the matter has been discussed here at length and there seemed
to be no support for friction shift levers.

I quite liked them. Once you got used to them they were perfectly easy
to shift with and you could also move two or three gears at a time in
one step. The best part was almost no maintenance and never any chain
rub.

I do no maintenance and never get any chain rub on my indexed Campag
"Ergos" but getting the adjustment right for cheap/nasty/slightl­y
damaged indexing systems can be very difficult.
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Still Just Me 25 April 2008 07:49:58 [ permanent link ]
 On 24 Apr 2008 00:58:31 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfo­rdalumni.org wrote:

A shy person wrote (briefly):
What would you go for and why?
Who still makes friction retained shift levers and why should they?
The reason for indexed shifting is obvious and it applies to all kinds
of bicycle derailleur shifting. Hub gears have always been indexed.
I don't understand what a touring, racing, or dirt bicycle has to do
with the kind of shift lever is used.

The OP's issue was reliability on a long tour, IIRC. Simple, strong
parts win (i.e. friction).

I think the matter has been discussed here at length and there seemed
to be no support for friction shift levers.

Actually, there seems to be quite a lot of support, as apparent in
this thread.

Beyond that. friction
levers have the same resistance to motion in both directions, variable
by how tight the retaining screw is tightened, while indexed levers
move freely in both directions, their hold being provided by detents
into which balls fit and prefer to remain.

Considering the power available in my finger/hand, the distinction is
irrelevant.
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Ryan Cousineau 26 April 2008 01:51:03 [ permanent link ]
 In article
<77268977-3963-4406­-b50b-0e1e28df9238@l­17g2000pri.googlegro­ups.com>,
Hank <hank@wirtznet.net>­ wrote:

On Apr 23, 6:48 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com­> wrote:
In article <filu04l90m7cfd67qi­11rl7q5ngq2ir...@4ax­.com>, m...@privacy.net
wrote:
bigjimp...@gmail.co­m wrote:
Brifters without a doubt.
I'm curious.... any stats on how many bikes are sold
each year with al the various systems?
Would be interesting to see what the top dog is sales
wise
About 100 million bikes are made every year:
http://quickrelease­.tv/?p=279

I think it's safe to assume that the plurality of all bikes sold each
year (if not the majority) are singlespeeds.
If you want to focus on the US market, and probably exclude kids' bikes
too, it's probably flat-bar trigger shifters, found on everything above
the cheapest models (which use very cheap-looking thumbies) in
departmentstoreland­.

I agree with everything except about flat-bar trigger shifters. in the
sub-$400 arena, twist-grips rule the roost

But of course! You are correct, and I forgot all about twist-grip
shifters.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcol­a.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing­, we coach them."
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GYXU > Cycling > Touring bikes: Index or friction shifting? 26 April 2008 01:51:03
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