A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
You could use a flashing xenon strobe, which is very visible in daylight, much more so than an LED flasher in the daytime. Maybe if I lived in an area with a lot of older drivers I'd turn on my rear light in the daytime. Sometimes when I'm leading a ride of family members in an area with a lot of bicycles, I'll turn on the rear strobe so they can follow the right person more easily. It's amazing how having a good lighting system has side benefits that you often don't think about.
However there are bicycle xenon strobes as well, i.e. "http://www.night-sun.com/htmldocs/stuff_civilian.html". They offer an AA powered model for those without a 12V lighting system, as well as a model that's powered by the 12V battery that most high-end lighting systems employ.
In article <t8moh4-j7k.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org>, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> wrote:
In rec.bicycles.misc A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
In rec.bicycles.misc Mike <m.fee@iirrll..ccrrii..nnzz> wrote:
rubrum@pacbell.net wrote:
Why do we need a light while stopped?
To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are
waiting at intersections.
Dane Buson wrote:
I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to *really*
help with that. Still, my light has a standlight and I use a 5 LED
front light as a blinky.
Nothing I wrote is shown under my name
Sorry about that, I just replied to SMS's post. Which is where the
error appears to have originated. I've fixed it (in this post) to show
the correct poster.
The `error' appeared in one of your messages. Namely <tphmh4-vt7.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org> which is a reply not to SMS, but to Mike's <MPG.20b2ad0474aeaa3989730@news.fx.net.nz>
No quoted material appears at a quote level exactly one greater than the quote level of the attribution line containing `A Muzi', so careful counting shows that no quoted message lines are attributed to A Muzi; and this is why I put ticks around `error' in the previous paragraph. Of course it can be misleading, and AM's point is well taken.
To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are
waiting at intersections.
Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> writes:
I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to *really*
help with that.
Ben Pfaff wrote:
A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
Last Sunday's Chicago Trib carried a story about a 17-yr-old CO woman who rear-ended a stopped car, amputating the two helpful young men about to change a tire at their knees. All four knees. Not even drunk or high, "I thought I saw something but I wasn't sure"
We cyclists assume a lot about the passing cager pilots sometimes (shudder) -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Sorry about that, I just replied to SMS's post. Which is where the
error appears to have originated. I've fixed it (in this post) to show
the correct poster.
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
The `error' appeared in one of your messages.
Dane Buson wrote:
True, as I already acknowledged.
Namely <tphmh4-vt7.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org> which is a reply not to
SMS, but to Mike's <MPG.20b2ad0474aeaa3989730@news.fx.net.nz>
Dane Buson wrote:
True also, I didn't look closely enough at my threading.
I will now go read RFC 977 again in penance.
Dane, I'm sorry this took on a life of its own. I was not offended and thought a short note about attribution would clear up the rest of the thread. That's all. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are
waiting at intersections.
Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> writes:
I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to *really*
help with that.
Ben Pfaff wrote:
A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
Last Sunday's Chicago Trib carried a story about a 17-yr-old CO woman
who rear-ended a stopped car, amputating the two helpful young men about
to change a tire at their knees. All four knees. Not even drunk or high,
"I thought I saw something but I wasn't sure"
We cyclists assume a lot about the passing cager pilots sometimes (shudder)
It's true. But in the case of stopped vehicles on the shoulder, it seems to have become more of a problem due to the inattentiveness brought on by too many distractions in the vehicle. Whether it's reaching for a CD, fiddling with the GPS, or talking on the phone, a stopped vehicle may just not register with these drivers as they plow into it.
The most horrible accidents occur when good Samaritans try to help. Now I just let AAA take care of it. Their big yellow trucks are very visible. It's not worth getting killed or maimed over.
One very good safety device, widely used all over the world except the U.S., is the flexible shaft reflector that extends out to the side of the bicycle. It has been proven to be very effective at encouraging vehicles to not come too close to the bicycle, but if a vehicle hits the shaft it will simply bend or break. Flags can be mounted to the seat stay, or to a rear rack (with a rubber insert).
John Forrest Tomlinson 16 May 2007 13:31:51 [ permanent link ]
On Tue, 15 May 2007 18:46:59 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
The most horrible accidents occur when good Samaritans try to help. Now
I just let AAA take care of it. Their big yellow trucks are very
visible.
I'm not sure I've ever seen one.
It's not worth getting killed or maimed over.
I stopped on a highway, in the left lane, two weeks ago to help someone. I felt I *had* too -- I was the first car on the scene after their car hit the barrier hard. It was daylight with good visibility, so I stopped my car, with blinkers on, and hoped it would protect me from some dumbass not paying attention.
Luckily a few seconds later other cars arrive that were paying attention and we got the traffic under control while consoling the victimes and calling for help.
-- JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com ****************************
On Wed, 16 May 2007 05:31:51 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Tue, 15 May 2007 18:46:59 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:
The most horrible accidents occur when good Samaritans try to help. Now
I just let AAA take care of it. Their big yellow trucks are very
visible.
I'm not sure I've ever seen one.
It's not worth getting killed or maimed over.
I stopped on a highway, in the left lane, two weeks ago to help
someone. I felt I *had* too -- I was the first car on the scene after
their car hit the barrier hard. It was daylight with good
visibility, so I stopped my car, with blinkers on, and hoped it would
protect me from some dumbass not paying attention.
Luckily a few seconds later other cars arrive that were paying
attention and we got the traffic under control while consoling the
victimes and calling for help.
In such a case, park your vehicle on the far side (from the point of view of approaching traffic) of the stopped car. Take the emergency triangles and flares or lights from your boot and walk them back a safe distance from the stopped car. Taht way, should some fool not see the warnings, they hit the stopped car, not yours.
You do have those triangles and flares in the boot, don't you?
A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
You could use a flashing xenon strobe, which is very visible in
daylight, much more so than an LED flasher in the daytime. Maybe if I
lived in an area with a lot of older drivers I'd turn on my rear light
in the daytime. Sometimes when I'm leading a ride of family members in
an area with a lot of bicycles, I'll turn on the rear strobe so they can
follow the right person more easily.
I was taught very early in school to consider the consequences of any action with the "what if everybody did it" question. I'm afraid your solution flunks this test.
I was taught very early in school to consider the consequences of any
action with the "what if everybody did it" question. I'm afraid your
solution flunks this test.
You mean like all those vehicles that are using the high beams lamps at reduced brightness as daytime running lights in order to be more visible, and annoying other drivers (and cyclists).
Just because someone else does something, or doesn't do it, shouldn't affect your own behavior when it comes to ensuring safety.
A good deal (in the U.S.) would be for automakers to drop DRLs (or adopt the European standards for them), for states to require driver training and testing at least as rigorous as the UK test, for states to require retesting for drivers over 65, and for states to enforce the traffic laws as they relate to vehicles not properly yielding the right of way to a bicycle in the same way they would to another vehicle. In return, I'll stop using bicycle lights that make me visible (actually I would not do this unless the lights were illegal, so I guess the deal is off).
I was taught very early in school to consider the consequences of any
action with the "what if everybody did it" question. I'm afraid your
solution flunks this test.
You mean like all those vehicles that are using the high beams lamps
at reduced brightness as daytime running lights in order to be more
visible, and annoying other drivers (and cyclists).
Those don't annoy me, strobes do.
The DRLs annoy a lot of people:
"After receiving hundreds of complaints, NHTSA acknowledged that the intensity limits were too high and proposed reductions in DRL intensity. NHTSA cited a study by Kirkpatrick, et. al. (1989), that said that at 2000cd, the glare from DRLs was rated at no worse than "just unacceptable" in 80% of the responses. At 4000cd, the glare was rated no worse than "disturbing" in 80% of the responses. These subjective ratings are based on the DeBoer scale. Corresponding to these ratings, they found that at 4000cd the probability that the rearview mirror would be dimmed was about 70%. At 2000cd the dimming probability was 40%. At 1000cd, the dimming probability dropped to 10%.”
As to strobes, they're no more annoying than the strobes widely used on barricades. They achieve their purpose of making you visible to automobiles, and drivers are trained to avoid these flashing amber lights.
In rec.bicycles.misc A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Ben Pfaff wrote:
A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
Last Sunday's Chicago Trib carried a story about a 17-yr-old CO woman
who rear-ended a stopped car, amputating the two helpful young men about
to change a tire at their knees. All four knees. Not even drunk or high,
"I thought I saw something but I wasn't sure"
I've always been concious of this sort of thing. That's how my uncle ended up a high single amputee.
We cyclists assume a lot about the passing cager pilots sometimes (shudder)
It does seem to me that people are rarely killed or seriously injured by malicious drivers (as much as they might like to). It's more often drunk or oblivious people.
-- Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." -Dan Quayle
In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
Ben Pfaff wrote:
A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
You could use a flashing xenon strobe, which is very visible in
daylight, much more so than an LED flasher in the daytime. Maybe if I
lived in an area with a lot of older drivers I'd turn on my rear light
in the daytime.
Xenon strobes are bright (and I own one), but have the distinct disadvantage that they don't strobe quickly enough for someone to actually know where you are all the time. I have one of the ones you recommended on your web site, and I never use it. Anecdotal reports from fellow cyclists that I've ridden with at night (and asked) report that the blinkies are better at making me visible.
LED blinkies also give much more continuous report of location. My strobe only goes off every 1/2 second when the batteries are fresh (slower as they discharge), but blinkies flash way more frequently than that. The strobe says "I'm here.... now I'm here ... now I'm here..." while the blinkie reports "IIIIII''''mmmmm hhhheeeerrrrreeee...."
Personally, I like the Planet Bike SuperFlash: it's almost as bright as (if not brighter than) the strobe, has a "steady" mode, and the flashing mode uses both a bright LED and less bright LEDs in a high frequency display. It is also more compact, weatherproof, less fragile, includes dedicated bicycle mounting hardware, and has way better battery life: 60-100 hours on 2xAAA for the PBSF vs. 10-20 hours on 2xAA for the strobe.
This blinkie is better than a xenon strobe in almost every way. Even if it is slightly less lumens per flash, the fact that it flashes way more frequently and with less upkeep makes it superior.
Even less bright blinkies that I've used my cohorts say they're more visible/better than the strobe largely because of frequency of the light.
-alan
-- Alan Hoyle - alanh@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/ "I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
Xenon strobes are bright (and I own one), but have the distinct
disadvantage that they don't strobe quickly enough for someone to
actually know where you are all the time. I have one of the ones you
recommended on your web site, and I never use it. Anecdotal reports
from fellow cyclists that I've ridden with at night (and asked) report
that the blinkies are better at making me visible.
I think 120 flashes per second is sufficient. Certainly the hazard signs on roadways, slow moving trucks, etc., that use strobes are not flashing any faster than that.
I'd augment it with an LED blinker, but not one of the el-cheapo models. There are some good LED blinkers such as the Cateye LD1000 (which really is visible in the day as Cateye claims). I guess there's always the DiNotte Ultra-Tail light as well, "http://www.dinottelighting.com/DiNotte_Lighting_Ultra_Tail_Light.htm".
Xenon strobes are bright (and I own one), but have the distinct
disadvantage that they don't strobe quickly enough for someone to
actually know where you are all the time.
I sometimes ride with someone who has one - it has three tubes which seem to fire at random, but sometimes there's a second or so between flashes. IMHO that's too long for safety.
In rec.bicycles.tech SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
Alan Hoyle wrote:
Xenon strobes are bright (and I own one), but have the distinct
disadvantage that they don't strobe quickly enough for someone to
actually know where you are all the time. I have one of the ones you
recommended on your web site, and I never use it. Anecdotal reports
from fellow cyclists that I've ridden with at night (and asked) report
that the blinkies are better at making me visible.
I think 120 flashes per second is sufficient. Certainly the hazard signs
on roadways, slow moving trucks, etc., that use strobes are not flashing
any faster than that.
I know you meant "120 flashes per minute."
Hazard signs, slow moving trucks, etc. don't steer nearly as fast as a bicycle. Emergency handling is way better on a bike (especially when compared with the handling on hazard signs . It's pretty trivial to move 2-3 feet laterally in less than 1 second on a bike.
Strobes are great for slow moving, not quick things: signs, trucks, horse & buggy, traffic signals, someone walking, etc. They are not nearly as useful for fast and/or quick things: cars, motorcycles, bicycles, runners, etc.
If you tell people they need a blinky anyway to augment a strobe, you should tell them to go ahead and buy a nice bright blinky anyway and not bother with a strobe. People can buy a nice bright blinky for ~$20. Xenon strobes are a waste of time, money, and batteries for the cyclist.
-alan
-- Alan Hoyle - alanh@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/ "I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
This blinkie is better than a xenon strobe in almost every way. Even
if it is slightly less lumens per flash, the fact that it flashes way
more frequently and with less upkeep makes it superior.
Even less bright blinkies that I've used my cohorts say they're more
visible/better than the strobe largely because of frequency of the
light.
-alan
Someone on the Icebiking group recommended those, and one has been on the back of my pack during the winter commute. I can report that I did not get hit once. It really is a great light. I think I only changed the batteries once.
