Re: C or D rings on quick-release e.g. Record / DA
Jim Smith 11 March 2005 07:41:57
"Joshua Lee" <jlee@contact.net> writes:
Anyone know why some of the high-end skewers have the C or D rings on the> nut (non-cam) side? I've not been able to see or even imagine a positive> difference between these and no-ring skewers. Is it supposed to help turn> the nut? I have both and I've not had any problems with no-ringed nut and> never felt it eased turning the nut. You'd only turn when there's no> (tensile) pressure on the QR anyway so there should only little resistance.
Anyone know why some of the high-end skewers have the C or D rings on the>>nut (non-cam) side? I've not been able to see or even imagine a positive>>difference between these and no-ring skewers. Is it supposed to help turn>>the nut? I have both and I've not had any problems with no-ringed nut and>>never felt it eased turning the nut. You'd only turn when there's no>>(tensile) pressure on the QR anyway so there should only little resistance.
It is desirable to have some sort of "stiffener" on the threads of a QR skewer so that the skewer on a spare wheel can be set to correct adjustment in advance, ready for a quick racing wheel change. (Of course this is academic for front forks with "lawyer lips.")
Most skewers use a plastic "nylock" type insert in the acorn nut, but older models didn't have access to this technology.
If you examine a classic "D" ring acorn nut, you'll find that the ends of the "D" ring are pressing against a pair of brass inserts which, in turn press against the skewer's threads. The "D" ring is actually a spring!
Sometimes this is excessive. I recall dealing with Dura-Ace hubs, new in the box, where the acorn nut had already been installed at the factory. On unscrewing the acorn nut, you could see that the factory's installation of the acorn nut had visibly damaged the threads (flattened out the sharp edges) because the "D" springs were excessively tight.
Sheldon "Insert Nickname Here" Brown +-------------------------------------------+ | If Stupidity got us into this mess, | | then why can't it get us out? | | -- Will Rogers | +-------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.comhttp://sheldonbrown.com
It is desirable to have some sort of "stiffener" on the threads of a QR > skewer so that the skewer on a spare wheel can be set to correct > adjustment in advance, ready for a quick racing wheel change. (Of course > this is academic for front forks with "lawyer lips.")
Is it not common practice to file off these edges ? -- Bonne route,
Squid-in-Training Phil 11 March 2005 23:51:01 [ permanent link ]
Sandy wrote:> "Sheldon Brown" <captbike@sheldonbrown.com> a écrit dans le message> de : news:4231D945.1060600@sheldonbrown.com...>
It is desirable to have some sort of "stiffener" on the threads of a>> QR skewer so that the skewer on a spare wheel can be set to correct>> adjustment in advance, ready for a quick racing wheel change. (Of>> course this is academic for front forks with "lawyer lips.")>
Is it not common practice to file off these edges ?
Not if you're using disc brakes and a bad skewer... -- Phil, Squid-in-Training
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:45:41 -0500 Sheldon Brown <captbike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:
It is desirable to have some sort of "stiffener" on the threads of a QR >skewer so that the skewer on a spare wheel can be set to correct >adjustment in advance, ready for a quick racing wheel change. (
Exactly right, plus it's important to note that the absense of any locking device will assure that some fraction of any set of spare wheels will always lose their QR nuts at some point in transportation. Those "unlocked" QR nuts which were still present would likely be way out of adjustment.
Most skewers use a plastic "nylock" type insert in the acorn nut, but >older models didn't have access to this technology.
It's hard to believe that Nylock nuts didn't exist when Tullio invented the QR, but it's possible. I only go back to the mid 60s on this historical stuff, but other manufacturers were already using the Nylock concept then,
- ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA -----------------------------------------------
...> It's hard to believe that Nylock nuts didn't exist when Tullio> invented the QR, but it's possible. I only go back to the mid 60s on> this historical stuff, but other manufacturers were already using the> Nylock concept then,
Commercially produced, petroleum derived polymeric materials were almost non-existent prior to the 1950's.
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:26:35 -0600, Jim Adney <jadney@vwtype3.org> wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:45:41 -0500 Sheldon Brown><captbike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:>
It is desirable to have some sort of "stiffener" on the threads of a QR >>skewer so that the skewer on a spare wheel can be set to correct >>adjustment in advance, ready for a quick racing wheel change. (>
Exactly right, plus it's important to note that the absense of any>locking device will assure that some fraction of any set of spare>wheels will always lose their QR nuts at some point in transportation.>Those "unlocked" QR nuts which were still present would likely be way>out of adjustment.>
Most skewers use a plastic "nylock" type insert in the acorn nut, but >>older models didn't have access to this technology.>
It's hard to believe that Nylock nuts didn't exist when Tullio>invented the QR, but it's possible. I only go back to the mid 60s on>this historical stuff, but other manufacturers were already using the>Nylock concept then,>
->-----------------------------------------------> Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org> Madison, WI 53711 USA>-----------------------------------------------
Dear Jim,
Several years after first wishing that he had one in 1924, Tullio Campagnolo patented his quick-release in 1930:
- ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA -----------------------------------------------
->-----------------------------------------------> Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org> Madison, WI 53711 USA>-----------------------------------------------
Dear Jim,
I liked your 1937 nylon toothbrush bristles post elsewhere in this thread--it trumped my prurient interest in 1940 lingerie technology by several years.
Sandy wrote:>>Is it not common practice to file off these edges ?
Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:> Not if you're using disc brakes and a bad skewer...
What's a 'bad' skewer in that regard? Even skewers missing the 'drag' mecahnism (classic Campagnolo or DuraAce with missing D-ring, Simplex missing the small spring &wingnut, modern nuts with the nylock insert pushed out, etc) work just fine. It's a convenience feature. Now we have better ways to do that- even convenient with forks that have PRD ('lawyer lips'): http://www.yellowjersey.org/ONE_UP.JPG
It is desirable to have some sort of "stiffener" on the threads of a>>>> QR skewer so that the skewer on a spare wheel can be set to correct>>>> adjustment in advance, ready for a quick racing wheel change. (Of>>>> course this is academic for front forks with "lawyer lips.")>
Sandy asked:>>
Is it not common practice to file off these edges ?>
Phil, who hopes someday to be a full-fledged squid wrote:>
Not if you're using disc brakes and a bad skewer...>
Sheldon "Good Ones And Bad Ones" Brown +---------------------------------------------------------+ | I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because | | if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. | | --Clarence Darrow | +---------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.comhttp://sheldonbrown.com
Squid-in-Training Phil 14 March 2005 05:07:37 [ permanent link ]
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message news:113997r64v8oo9e@corp.supernews.com...>>>"Sheldon Brown" <captbike@sheldonbrown.com> a écrit dans le message>>>de : news:4231D945.1060600@sheldonbrown.com...>>>>It is desirable to have some sort of "stiffener" on the threads of a>>>>QR skewer so that the skewer on a spare wheel can be set to correct>>>>adjustment in advance, ready for a quick racing wheel change. (Of>>>>course this is academic for front forks with "lawyer lips.")>
Sandy wrote:>>>Is it not common practice to file off these edges ?>
Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:>> Not if you're using disc brakes and a bad skewer...>
What's a 'bad' skewer in that regard?
By far, the worst skewers I have seen are the ones that come on almost all current-model-year Specialized road bikes, and also on some of their mountain bikes. The first complaint is that the skewer lever itself is abnormally short, and curved inward to a large extent, often hitting the fork leg or even the rear dropout itself before it is fully clamped down. Next, the cam profile is such that sufficient tension on the skewer is acheived when the lever is clamped between at around a 60 degree angle to the fork leg or the stays, but then when the lever is additionally tightened to a full 0 degrees, a very large portion of the tension is lost. The cam lobes are very aggressively shaped, and get much too thin on the "closed" portion. They're also a Sheldon boutique-type. I'll post pictures here to demonstrate.
A new Specialized Rockhopper with Shimano hydraulics here at my shop has this skewer at the front, and at the first application of the brake, the wheel skews between the fork legs. If the lawyer lips were not present on the fork, it's likely the wheel would work its way right out.
