Re: Blood thinners/ Advice needed

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GYXU > Cycling > Re: Blood thinners/ Advice needed 14 April 2005 16:01:14

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Re: Blood thinners/ Advice needed
MyFirstname MyLastName 13 April 2005 07:50:08
	sscholes@csi.edu writes: Hello all. I've been a RBR lurker for years. I feel like i almost> know many of you. Anyhow, I'm hoping to get some input from other> cyclists who may have encountered similar problems to what I'm facing.> Here's the scoop.> I'm a relatively fit 36 yr old cyclist that rides a fair amount> (approx. 5,000 miles last year). Last week I ended up in the ER with a> small blood clot in my lung. Currently, I'm on the shelf but would> like to return to a good exercise routine as soon as possible. I've> started on Coumadin for the next 3-6 months and must avoid all contact> sports. From the information I can gather, cycling is okay, crashing> is not. The local pulmonologist is not a sports guy and I can't find> the info I'm looking for on the web.> Here are my ?'s-> 1. Will I be able to do high intensity training at any point while on> the Meds?> 2. Can there be an issue with internal bleeding due to prolonged time> on the saddle (5 hr rides?)?> 3. Do any of you know of a good resource related to sports & blood> thinners? I've tried the general & company sites related to drugs but> come up empty.> Any input is appreciated. (Even a "Dumbass" from Kurgan)> Scott Nice Troll
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Howard Kveck 13 April 2005 09:22:34 [ permanent link ]
	In article <1113362732.906808.94860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, sscholes@csi.edu wrote: Hello all. I've been a RBR lurker for years. I feel like i almost> know many of you. And you still asked the question? (heh) -- tanx, Howard Butter is love. remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Ewoud Dronkert 13 April 2005 18:51:58 [ permanent link ]
	On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:57:00 -0400, Curtis L. Russell wrote:> I'm not sure I would do> anything while on blood thinners unless I had a long conversation with> a knowledgeable doctor I trusted. BTW, I can give you the name of one> that can get you killed... Blood thinners are no more dangerous than orange juice. -- Firefox Web Browser - Rediscover the web - http://getffox.com/ Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://gettbird.com/
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Curtis L . Russell 13 April 2005 19:32:27 [ permanent link ]
	On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:51:58 +0200, Ewoud Dronkert <firstname@lastname.net.invalid> wrote: Blood thinners are no more dangerous than orange juice. This is why I try to stick to bourbon and beer. And the occasional bottle of wine. Orange juice is only safe if you add enough vodka to kill the more dangerous properties and additives. 'Pulp' never did sound very safe to me. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...
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Piet Hein 13 April 2005 19:38:48 [ permanent link ]
	<sscholes@csi.edu> wrote in message news:1113362732.906808.94860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... 1. Will I be able to do high intensity training at any point while on> the Meds?> 2. Can there be an issue with internal bleeding due to prolonged time> on the saddle (5 hr rides?)?> 3. Do any of you know of a good resource related to sports & blood> thinners? I've tried the general & company sites related to drugs but> come up empty. I'm on Acenacoumarol (also a blood thinner) since 1999, and I will be for the rest of my life because I have some hereditary anomalies in my blood. I have spoken to a couple of MDs about 6 hour rides and they have told me that apart from falling there should be no problems / internal bleeding etc.. This weekend I will be riding the Amstel Gold Race for the third time (the cyclotourist version on saturday!! NOT the race on sunday) and I have never had any problems with riding my bike for 7 hours in a row or for a couple of weeks every day in a row. I think I should point out that the Netherlands (where I am located) is one of a very few countries in the world where people who take bloodthinners are checked frequently (once every 2 - 3 weeks) to prevent internal bleedings etc caused by taking too much bloodthinners... So if you're not 100% certain that the INR (http://www.hemosense.com/patient/pt_inr.html) of your blood has the correct value, there is a very high risk of internal bleedings.... Since a couple of months I can do the checking of my blood at home in a few seconds so I know that the risks for me are reduced to a minumum. The only problem I have is that I can't get a license to race because of the high risk of bleeding to death when I fall... And of course you're saying to yourself when you're going down a mountain with 80km/h "if I fall...." but apart from that, the bloodthinners are not stopping me from riding 7.000kms a year.. patrick (p.s. male, 27)
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MyFirstname MyLastName 14 April 2005 02:33:06 [ permanent link ]
	Ewoud Dronkert <firstname@lastname.net.invalid> writes: Blood thinners are no more dangerous than orange juice. And if they don't work, try beta Blockers and then Psychomotor Stimulants -- Regards, Ila Kutcherkokoff (Lorena's Cousin)
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Webforumuser 14 April 2005 04:57:36 [ permanent link ]
	http://www.arthurandrew.com/neprinol Should not be taken with prescription blood thinners without doctor's permission. The blood thinning properties are good for healthy athletes as well by optimizing blood viscosity. On 12 Apr 2005 20:25:32 -0700, sscholes@csi.edu wrote: Hello all. I've been a RBR lurker for years. I feel like i almost>know many of you. Anyhow, I'm hoping to get some input from other>cyclists who may have encountered similar problems to what I'm facing.>Here's the scoop.> I'm a relatively fit 36 yr old cyclist that rides a fair amount>(approx. 5,000 miles last year). Last week I ended up in the ER with a>small blood clot in my lung. Currently, I'm on the shelf but would>like to return to a good exercise routine as soon as possible. I've>started on Coumadin for the next 3-6 months and must avoid all contact>sports. From the information I can gather, cycling is okay, crashing>is not. The local pulmonologist is not a sports guy and I can't find>the info I'm looking for on the web.> Here are my ?'s-> 1. Will I be able to do high intensity training at any point while on>the Meds?> 2. Can there be an issue with internal bleeding due to prolonged time>on the saddle (5 hr rides?)?> 3. Do any of you know of a good resource related to sports & blood>thinners? I've tried the general & company sites related to drugs but>come up empty.> Any input is appreciated. (Even a "Dumbass" from Kurgan)>Scott
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Mike Murray 14 April 2005 06:10:15 [ permanent link ]
	Someone has paged me to join this thread so I guess I should. As usual others have posted some advice, most good and some bad. Some of the bad has been related to confusion about what a "blood thinner" is. The term is a common usage slang to refer to drugs that inhibit blood clotting. Since blood does not clot because it is "thick" the term is a misnomer. To answer the questions posted: 1. Yes, you can do high intensity training while on Coumadin. 2. All bleeding is more likely while on Coumadin. This risk can be decreased but not eliminated by frequent monitoring of coagulation status with regular PT and INR measurements as should be done with all patients on Coumadin. There is normally not any bleeding associated with prolonged saddle time in patients not on Coumadin. It is not likely that there would be any problem with patients taking Coumadin. 3. I am not aware of any good resources on this subject. Some general items on the subject: - Coumadin interacts with many drugs and foods, as I am sure that your care providers will tell you. Paying careful attention to this is important to decrease the problems associated with taking Coumadin. - The information that you have found "cycling is okay, crashing is not" is good. The issue is that if you bleed you will bleed more when you are taking Coumadin. If you have an injury in a fall you will bleed more than you would not on Coumadin. If the injury is a simple abrasion then no big deal since that will stop eventually. If you break a bone then it ill bleed more but again this is not often a big deal. If the injury is a bleed in your brain from a head injury or in the abdomen from abdominal trauma then it will be a lot bigger deal for you than it would be for a patient not on Coumadin. On the other hand, a bleed in the brain or the abdomen is a big deal for anybody. - Basically you will be at higher risk when doing activities that might result in trauma compared to people not on Coumadin. This includes bike riding but also driving in a car, taking a shower, etc. Assessing how much risk is difficult to do since the probability of injury is difficult to quantify. Whether you want to accept that risk is up to you. - If you don't have some risk factor that gave you the clot in your lungs, and possibly even if you do, you should have an evaluation for disorders that cause increased clotting. If such a disorder is found it may make some differences in how long you stay on the Coumadin. Hopefully this provides some help. If you have any other questions feel free to contact me directly or in the newsgroup. -- Mike Murray MD <sscholes@csi.edu> wrote in message news:1113362732.906808.94860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...> Hello all. I've been a RBR lurker for years. I feel like i almost> know many of you. Anyhow, I'm hoping to get some input from other> cyclists who may have encountered similar problems to what I'm facing.> Here's the scoop.> I'm a relatively fit 36 yr old cyclist that rides a fair amount> (approx. 5,000 miles last year). Last week I ended up in the ER with a> small blood clot in my lung. Currently, I'm on the shelf but would> like to return to a good exercise routine as soon as possible. I've> started on Coumadin for the next 3-6 months and must avoid all contact> sports. From the information I can gather, cycling is okay, crashing> is not. The local pulmonologist is not a sports guy and I can't find> the info I'm looking for on the web.> Here are my ?'s-> 1. Will I be able to do high intensity training at any point while on> the Meds?> 2. Can there be an issue with internal bleeding due to prolonged time> on the saddle (5 hr rides?)?> 3. Do any of you know of a good resource related to sports & blood> thinners? I've tried the general & company sites related to drugs but> come up empty.> Any input is appreciated. (Even a "Dumbass" from Kurgan)> Scott>
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Tim Lines 14 April 2005 10:53:53 [ permanent link ]
	Curtis L. Russell wrote:> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:51:58 +0200, Ewoud Dronkert> <firstname@lastname.net.invalid> wrote:> Blood thinners are no more dangerous than orange juice.> This is why I try to stick to bourbon and beer. And the occasional> bottle of wine.> Orange juice is only safe if you add enough vodka to kill the more> dangerous properties and additives. 'Pulp' never did sound very safe> to me. Right. Did you ever see "Pulp Fiction"? Scary stuff.
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Ewoud Dronkert 14 April 2005 14:11:36 [ permanent link ]
	On 13 Apr 2005 18:12:49 -0700, sscholes@csi.edu wrote:> swearing off orange juice! I was parafrasing Michele Ferrari, see inset at http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2003/interviews/?id=ferrari03b#equipe -- Firefox Web Browser - Rediscover the web - http://getffox.com/ Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://gettbird.com/
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Jet 14 April 2005 16:01:14 [ permanent link ]
	On 13 Apr 2005 10:37:13 -0700, "Sabine" <sabinedukes@hotmail.com> wrote: I have a friend who is a coumadin lifer and he continues to race and>train for road, mountain bike and cross racing. So exercise is entirely>achievable while on coumadin. Just be careful.> There is a yahoogroups with other dvt/pe people>http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/thrombosis>good general info can come out of that, but not a lot of athletes in>the group.> happy healing> Sabine>www.velobella.org Great post - a keeper. I don't have trouble with thrombo, or varicosity afaik, but I do wear knee length compression socks, 20-30mm/Hg when I ride. I read an article that it helps with blood return from the feet, and acts like a mini-heart pump. Don't have the article handy, but could probably dig it up. Er, generally don't wear them during the summer though. <g> Maybe if I could find them in 'tan' <hehe>, these are black. IMO, if you are showing any edema in the lower legs it might be worthwhile. You can tell by pressing your thumb into your leg and if it makes a depression, that's 'pitting edema'. My wife has it from time-to-time. I've had it a couple times - not sure why. (I'm 50-ish) Good to read that cycling can help improve the veins - had not heard that. jj
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GYXU > Cycling > Re: Blood thinners/ Advice needed 14 April 2005 16:01:14

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