Re: Recommendations? - Training "Other Peoples" Dogs Not To Chase
Matt O'Toole 11 May 2005 05:25:27
Steve Sr. wrote:
One of the routes that a co-worker and I regularly ride has a house> (trailer) where two dogs reside. The first is an older yellow lab mix> and the second is a much younger (and faster!) pit-bull.>
Both of these dogs act like they are out for blood although neither> has caught me or my co-worker yet. But they have come too close for my> comfort. The road at this point in the ride is slightly uphill making> it hard to out run them although on a good day the lab gives up fairly> easily.>
The pit bull is a different story. He tries to circle around you and> get in your way to slow you down. One day he got close enough to my> left heel that I unclipped and kicked him in the head as hard as I> could. Boy did he act surprised that his "prey" fought back!>
Unfortunately that lesson didn't take. Since then we thought that we> had him trained by squirting water from our water bottles at him but> lately even this has begun to loose its effectiveness.>
Obviously persuing the owner would be a waste of time
How do you know? Have you tried?
so we are> looking for other suggestions to train the dog not to chase bikes. I> have thought about trying bitter apple in a squirt gun but have been> unable to find an appropriate sized squirt gun anymore. I also wonder> about aiming such a small stream of liquid at a moving target while on> a moving bicycle.>
I am begining to think about pepper spray but it has similar> limitations in aiming and other consequences if the wind happens to> blow the wrong way. Another possibility would be a handful of rocks> thrown simultaneously. I would definitely hit the target but doubt> that I would cause enough damage to work more than once.>
A pellet gun would probably inflict enough pain on the dog that he> wouldn't forget soon, but I don't have one and don't really want to> buy one just for this purpose if I can avoid it.>
Can anybody offer any other suggestions for dealing with the dog?>
BTW, this is in a lower income rural area.
How is this relevent? Rich people in metropolitan areas can have mean dogs too. How is this different?
I have thought about> talking to the local sheriff but don't think it would do much good or> work more than once.
Actually it works better every time. Subsequent offenses are generally dealt with more harshly.
Even though there is probably a leash law the> sheriff probably likes dogs more than bikers!
The Sheriff likes *the law*, and you can assume will enforce it. Do yourself a favor and look it up. Take it from there.
Or you could do the sensible thing and ride a different route.....(rolls-eyes)
"Steve Sr." <Nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:qtk281dilstfo40lua2ril1bhgfkj8usn2@4ax.com...> Hello,>
One of the routes that a co-worker and I regularly ride has a house> (trailer) where two dogs reside. The first is an older yellow lab mix> and the second is a much younger (and faster!) pit-bull.>
Both of these dogs act like they are out for blood although neither> has caught me or my co-worker yet. But they have come too close for my> comfort. The road at this point in the ride is slightly uphill making> it hard to out run them although on a good day the lab gives up fairly> easily.>
The pit bull is a different story. He tries to circle around you and> get in your way to slow you down. One day he got close enough to my> left heel that I unclipped and kicked him in the head as hard as I> could. Boy did he act surprised that his "prey" fought back!>
Unfortunately that lesson didn't take. Since then we thought that we> had him trained by squirting water from our water bottles at him but> lately even this has begun to loose its effectiveness.>
Obviously persuing the owner would be a waste of time so we are> looking for other suggestions to train the dog not to chase bikes. I> have thought about trying bitter apple in a squirt gun but have been> unable to find an appropriate sized squirt gun anymore. I also wonder> about aiming such a small stream of liquid at a moving target while on> a moving bicycle.>
I am begining to think about pepper spray but it has similar> limitations in aiming and other consequences if the wind happens to> blow the wrong way. Another possibility would be a handful of rocks> thrown simultaneously. I would definitely hit the target but doubt> that I would cause enough damage to work more than once.>
A pellet gun would probably inflict enough pain on the dog that he> wouldn't forget soon, but I don't have one and don't really want to> buy one just for this purpose if I can avoid it.>
Can anybody offer any other suggestions for dealing with the dog?>
BTW, this is in a lower income rural area. I have thought about> talking to the local sheriff but don't think it would do much good or> work more than once. Even though there is probably a leash law the> sheriff probably likes dogs more than bikers!>
Or you could do the sensible thing and ride a different > route.....(rolls-eyes)
No way. You cannot let the dogs take over the road. Next thing they'll be moving into your neighborhood and you'll be forced to move out.
Get a gun. Preferrably some type of machine gun. Dogs don't stand a chance against a machine gun. And mount it to your handlebars like a WWI figher aircraft. That'd be cool...and effective.
Rich
P.S. And join the NRA. TH=hey will help defend your right to bare arms in the event you need to go to court.
Or you could do the sensible thing and ride a different >> route.....(rolls-eyes)>
No way. You cannot let the dogs take over the road. Next thing they'll >be moving into your neighborhood and you'll be forced to move out.
Interesting point.
Get a gun. Preferrably some type of machine gun. Dogs don't stand a >chance against a machine gun. And mount it to your handlebars like a >WWI figher aircraft. That'd be cool...and effective.
That *would* be cool. I'm thinking a recumbent would be better equipped to handle the recoil, though, no? A sidecar, incidentally, could catch the shell casings. Environmentally correct.
P.S. And join the NRA. TH=hey will help defend your right to bare arms >in the event you need to go to court.
Bare arms on a bike only gets you sunburned . . . if you don't use sunblock.
One of the routes that a co-worker and I regularly ride has a house> (trailer) where two dogs reside. The first is an older yellow lab mix> and the second is a much younger (and faster!) pit-bull.>
Both of these dogs act like they are out for blood although neither> has caught me or my co-worker yet. But they have come too close for my> comfort. The road at this point in the ride is slightly uphill making> it hard to out run them although on a good day the lab gives up fairly> easily.>
The pit bull is a different story. He tries to circle around you and> get in your way to slow you down. One day he got close enough to my> left heel that I unclipped and kicked him in the head as hard as I> could. Boy did he act surprised that his "prey" fought back!>
Unfortunately that lesson didn't take. Since then we thought that we> had him trained by squirting water from our water bottles at him but> lately even this has begun to loose its effectiveness.>
Obviously persuing the owner would be a waste of time so we are> looking for other suggestions to train the dog not to chase bikes. I> have thought about trying bitter apple in a squirt gun but have been> unable to find an appropriate sized squirt gun anymore. I also wonder> about aiming such a small stream of liquid at a moving target while on> a moving bicycle.>
I am begining to think about pepper spray but it has similar> limitations in aiming and other consequences if the wind happens to> blow the wrong way. Another possibility would be a handful of rocks> thrown simultaneously. I would definitely hit the target but doubt> that I would cause enough damage to work more than once.>
A pellet gun would probably inflict enough pain on the dog that he> wouldn't forget soon, but I don't have one and don't really want to> buy one just for this purpose if I can avoid it.>
Can anybody offer any other suggestions for dealing with the dog?>
BTW, this is in a lower income rural area. I have thought about> talking to the local sheriff but don't think it would do much good or> work more than once. Even though there is probably a leash law the> sheriff probably likes dogs more than bikers!>
Thanks,>
Steve
The easiest solution is to pick another route and avoid the aggravation.
One of the routes that a co-worker and I regularly ride has a house> (trailer) where two dogs reside. The first is an older yellow lab mix> and the second is a much younger (and faster!) pit-bull.>
Both of these dogs act like they are out for blood although neither> has caught me or my co-worker yet. But they have come too close for my> comfort. The road at this point in the ride is slightly uphill making> it hard to out run them although on a good day the lab gives up fairly> easily.>
The pit bull is a different story. He tries to circle around you and> get in your way to slow you down. One day he got close enough to my> left heel that I unclipped and kicked him in the head as hard as I> could. Boy did he act surprised that his "prey" fought back!
I have found it useful to turn around and chase the dog back into his own yard, usually with their tail between their legs, but I have NOT tried it on an aggressive Pit Bull.>
Unfortunately that lesson didn't take. Since then we thought that we> had him trained by squirting water from our water bottles at him but> lately even this has begun to loose its effectiveness.>
Obviously persuing the owner would be a waste of time so we are> looking for other suggestions to train the dog not to chase bikes. I> have thought about trying bitter apple in a squirt gun but have been> unable to find an appropriate sized squirt gun anymore. I also wonder> about aiming such a small stream of liquid at a moving target while on> a moving bicycle.
If their are two of you I would suggest carrying a knife and confronting the dog directly and not as a moving target. If you do get bit and have to put the dog down the hard way, there are at least two of you and you can sue the owner and make an example. I carry a knife, of sorts, in the fact that I have my quick release seat post tapered like a giant hypodermic needle, but if it got down to the dog or me, the seat would get pulled and used as a weapon.>
I am begining to think about pepper spray but it has similar> limitations in aiming and other consequences if the wind happens to> blow the wrong way. Another possibility would be a handful of rocks> thrown simultaneously. I would definitely hit the target but doubt> that I would cause enough damage to work more than once.>
A pellet gun would probably inflict enough pain on the dog that he> wouldn't forget soon, but I don't have one and don't really want to> buy one just for this purpose if I can avoid it.
Either of the above methods would just ingrain in the dog that you are an enemy and to be treated as such. The dog must either be made a friend, if that is possible with an aggressive Pit Bull, or terrified to see you coming.>
Can anybody offer any other suggestions for dealing with the dog?>
BTW, this is in a lower income rural area. I have thought about> talking to the local sheriff but don't think it would do much good or> work more than once. Even though there is probably a leash law the> sheriff probably likes dogs more than bikers!
Just take something to defend yourselves with and don't go by there alone. Homicide of a dog in self defense is not a crime in any state that I know of. Good luck with all that. Bill Baka My opinions are definitely not in sync with the group on these matters.>
Mike Jacoubowsky 11 May 2005 07:53:31 [ permanent link ]
Both of these dogs act like they are out for blood although neither> has caught me or my co-worker yet. But they have come too close for my> comfort. The road at this point in the ride is slightly uphill making> it hard to out run them although on a good day the lab gives up fairly> easily.
I can't recommend this with all dogs, and it takes more than a certain amount of... stupidity? to do this, but... what I've found to work is to *not* ride away from the dog. When he comes out to chase, ride towards him, not away, and dismount a safe distance from the dog. Place the bike between yourself and the dog (you may be stupid to do this, but you still want to live through the experience!) and stare it down.
The first time I did this was out on West Alpine, a very remote road near the coast on the San Francisco Peninsula. There was this nasty dog (a large unfriendly black lab) that would come out and chase down just about every cyclist that went by. I finally got fed up with it and stared him down. It took a few minutes (which can seem like a *very* long time) but eventually the dog looked... well, depressed is the best way to put it. Tail went down, he turned around and just kind of walked away. Never got chased by that dog again.
But the thing you have to keep in mind is that dogs seem to have a way of knowing who's fearful of them. Bad news if that's the case. There are definitely dogs you SHOULD fear, but you always want to avoid showing it. Otherwise you need to be someplace else.
The pit bull is a different story. He tries to circle around you and> get in your way to slow you down. One day he got close enough to my> left heel that I unclipped and kicked him in the head as hard as I> could. Boy did he act surprised that his "prey" fought back!
Sounds like a more dangerous dog. If the dog is willing to circle around you, it's difficult to keep your bike between you and him. If you think the dog would do that if you've stopped and tried to create a defensible position with your bike, I'd look into a different route. I haven't encountered dogs that circle around and attack from behind.
It's harder to deal with two dogs because they excite each other on, but dismount, offer milkbones to dog (he won't come all the way to you) and toss one near him, closer to you each time. In a few opportunities he'll take it from your hand. Some day touch him accidentally.
He discovers he's touched and not hurt, at which point he pretty much gives up objections to you.
The result, on a regular route, is that the dog is sitting at the end of the driveway waiting for you to roll up and stop at the appointed time, offer milkbone and ride away.
You have a slightly harder problem because you've established yourself as untrustworthy but it still can be done.
Pit bulls are not people-aggressive, by the way, in spite of what you read in the papers starting around 1985. They like fighting dogs, which is particularly terrier trait, no matter how big the terrier. Dogs are always being sized up as to whether they'd be a worthy opponent.
I met a large Pit Bull a couple of weeks ago, that had come running out, so I stopped and he lept up to be greeted properly. A very large Black man came running out to say that the dog was friendly, which, curiously, is what I had assumed. The Pit Bull then jumped on him to be greeted properly. That's typical of pit bulls. Nobody teaches dogs manners these days, even though it's easy.
Anyway, a bicyclist is a deer, and thought to be chase-worthy by almost every untutored dog. If you get off the bike, you're not a deer any longer and you get people-treatment.
The attracting sound, by the way, is tire noise. If you listen very carefully you can hear it yourself, but it's much louder to a dog.
"Ron Hardin" <rhhardin@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:4281DF55.48D2@mindspring.com...>
Pit bulls are not people-aggressive, by the way, in spite of what> you read in the papers starting around 1985. They like fighting dogs,> which is particularly terrier trait, no matter how big the terrier.> Dogs are always being sized up as to whether they'd be a worthy> opponent.>
I met a large Pit Bull a couple of weeks ago, that had come running> out, so I stopped and he lept up to be greeted properly. A very large
ALL dogs have the propensity to be people aggressive....
I hate the BS argument that pitbulls were only bred to be dog aggressive and not people aggressive.....they are dogs......they're not that smart.......dogs aren't always smart enough to distinguish strange people from other dogs.....they often mix up those boundaries between people and dogs....which is why we often have to train them that we are the dominant and lead dogs in their pack.
Besides, the big problem with pit-type/fighting dogs is the damage they can do when they are aggressive!!!
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:%kfge.1103$3%4.1083@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...> > Both of these dogs act like they are out for blood although neither> > has caught me or my co-worker yet. But they have come too close for my> > comfort. The road at this point in the ride is slightly uphill making> > it hard to out run them although on a good day the lab gives up fairly> > easily.>
I can't recommend this with all dogs, and it takes more than a certain> amount of... stupidity? to do this, but... what I've found to work is to> *not* ride away from the dog. When he comes out to chase, ride towards
him,> not away, and dismount a safe distance from the dog. Place the bike between> yourself and the dog (you may be stupid to do this, but you still want to> live through the experience!) and stare it down.
I've used that technique successfully myself with a very agressive German Shepard. He didn't back down, but the bike provided a very effective shield.
However, this technique works only when there's just one dog. With more than one dog, they'll be able to circle around and flank you before you can respond.
GG
The first time I did this was out on West Alpine, a very remote road near> the coast on the San Francisco Peninsula. There was this nasty dog (a
large> unfriendly black lab) that would come out and chase down just about every> cyclist that went by. I finally got fed up with it and stared him down. It> took a few minutes (which can seem like a *very* long time) but eventually> the dog looked... well, depressed is the best way to put it. Tail went down,> he turned around and just kind of walked away. Never got chased by that
again.>
But the thing you have to keep in mind is that dogs seem to have a way of> knowing who's fearful of them. Bad news if that's the case. There are> definitely dogs you SHOULD fear, but you always want to avoid showing it.> Otherwise you need to be someplace else.>
The pit bull is a different story. He tries to circle around you and> > get in your way to slow you down. One day he got close enough to my> > left heel that I unclipped and kicked him in the head as hard as I> > could. Boy did he act surprised that his "prey" fought back!>
Sounds like a more dangerous dog. If the dog is willing to circle around> you, it's difficult to keep your bike between you and him. If you think
dog would do that if you've stopped and tried to create a defensible> position with your bike, I'd look into a different route. I haven't> encountered dogs that circle around and attack from behind.>
In article <3ed59iF2h76bU1@individual.net>, matt@deltanet.com says...
The Sheriff likes *the law*, and you can assume will enforce it. Do yourself a> favor and look it up. Take it from there.
Guess it depends where you are and who the Sheriff is. In the early 80s we called the county about a vicious dog that repeatedly threatened people on our property. We were inconveniently far from animal control, I guess -- they asked us whether we or any neighbors had a gun and would simply shoot the dog next time.
bryanska wrote:> I'd also say talk to the sheriff. Let them visit the guy at least> twice. This way, you legally record your attempts to peacefully resolve> the situation. Follow-up with the law and see how the visits went.>
Go through the law, transparently and peacefully. Make every attempt.> Videotape the dogs if possible.>
This is where I'll be unpopular.>
If the dogs still chase you after all this, be ready to take 'em out.> Is your state a concealed carry state? You'll need a thick round with> lots of stopping power. Muzzle velocity isn't important. If .38 or> ..357, a full wadcutter should work. For .45, go with a Hydra-Shok or> other non-penetrating safety round. If you're using a smaller caliber,> consider Glaser Safety Slugs. Dismount, put the bike between you and> the dog if possible, and carefully shoot.
This is actually where you are talking reality and not fiction. Some dogs will fix it into their mind that you are fair game to bite and will need to be taken out. About once a year I hear on the news where some pedestrian or child is mauled or even killed by an unrestrained dog. This being California, a gun is out, but I may be able to carry a fair sized knife on my belt, but as you say, that is too close.>
If a gun is out, try Liquid Bullet. It's a pepper spray product that> uses a patented thick stream of liquid capsaicin. It won't spray back> in your face. A slobbering pitbull has lots of exposes mucous> membranes, and this product should irritate them well, without> overspray to endanger others. The lab should give up easily.>
Don't try to engage the pit with your hands. Even a baton like the ASP> is too close for comfort. Ditto a knife. Their jaws will lock until> their heart stops beating. If they've managed to bite you before you> can sink the blade, it's become a life-or-death matter for them. While> the lab will go off and lick its wounds, a pit will stay chomped until> its lights go out - and by that time, you could be fingerless or> missing a big, dead chunk of flesh.>
I am thinking how weird it would look to carry a 36" baseball bat and if it would be possible to hit a Pit Bull type dog in the head with a 'home run' powered swing. All things being equal, I value myself and the people who may be riding with me a hell of a lot more than the dog owners right to have a vicious dog running loose. Bill Baka
SlowRider wrote:> I use the same approach with other peoples' dogs that I use with my own> dogs: if they don't do something I like, I give them a sharp, loud,> authoritative rebuke ("AAY!" works beautifully, especially if you can> startle them with it).>
But that's for your garden-variety pet dog off his leash, not a> snarling attack dog. In the latter case I would call animal control.
After you get bit?
Ask them to remind the owners that if a dog bites a human, the dog gets> put to sleep (that's the law in most places AFAIK). Animal control may> also be able to give you better tips than you'll get elsewhere.>
The next step after that would be the police. I believe a phrase they> recognize is "hazard to navigation": if the dogs chase bicycles, they> probably chase cars, too.
We have a leash law but the police never even attempt to enforce it. They just drive by the dog and do nothing, and I never see an animal control truck come out unless someones child gets bitten or something along those lines. Bill Baka>
On Tue, 10 May 2005 21:11:11 -0400, Steve Sr. <Nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
Hello,>
One of the routes that a co-worker and I regularly ride has a house>(trailer) where two dogs reside. The first is an older yellow lab mix>and the second is a much younger (and faster!) pit-bull.>
Both of these dogs act like they are out for blood although neither>has caught me or my co-worker yet. But they have come too close for my>comfort. The road at this point in the ride is slightly uphill making>it hard to out run them although on a good day the lab gives up fairly>easily.>
The pit bull is a different story. He tries to circle around you and>get in your way to slow you down. One day he got close enough to my>left heel that I unclipped and kicked him in the head as hard as I>could. Boy did he act surprised that his "prey" fought back!>
Unfortunately that lesson didn't take. Since then we thought that we>had him trained by squirting water from our water bottles at him but>lately even this has begun to loose its effectiveness.>
Obviously persuing the owner would be a waste of time so we are>looking for other suggestions to train the dog not to chase bikes. I>have thought about trying bitter apple in a squirt gun but have been>unable to find an appropriate sized squirt gun anymore. I also wonder>about aiming such a small stream of liquid at a moving target while on>a moving bicycle.>
I am begining to think about pepper spray but it has similar>limitations in aiming and other consequences if the wind happens to>blow the wrong way. Another possibility would be a handful of rocks>thrown simultaneously. I would definitely hit the target but doubt>that I would cause enough damage to work more than once.>
A pellet gun would probably inflict enough pain on the dog that he>wouldn't forget soon, but I don't have one and don't really want to>buy one just for this purpose if I can avoid it.>
Can anybody offer any other suggestions for dealing with the dog?>
BTW, this is in a lower income rural area. I have thought about>talking to the local sheriff but don't think it would do much good or>work more than once. Even though there is probably a leash law the>sheriff probably likes dogs more than bikers!>
Thanks,>
Steve
Thanks for everyone's ideas. I am not going to change my route to solve this problem. If I did I would never ride in any rural areas. The dog is the problem...Not my route!
Unfortunately me and my co-worker ride at different paces so we each get the chance to get chased individually usually 5-15 minutes apart!
I guess I didn't make my self clear the first time but the "owner" is "trailer trash" and the area is rural Harnett/Lee County, NC. Forget about getting help from law enforcement or suing the owner. I think I remember something about trying to get water from a stone. It just ain't going to happen.
It looks like my options are somewhat limited. I may try some cop strength pepper spray if I can buy some locally which shouldn't be a problem in this area.
I was also considering the Dog Dazor after finding it on the internet this afternoon. Unfortunately the review that Gary provided the link to was not near as glowing as some of the web sites that were selling the product! I may try to get one of these anyway and "improve" it as in Tim Taylor's - Home improvement. Afterall, I am an engineer and have the technology to do it. Anybody know where I can find information on the frequency hearing range of dogs?
Whatever we decide we will probably go together when it comes time to "train" this dog with either chemicals or ultrasound.
Can anybody offer any other suggestions for dealing with the dog?>>
BTW, this is in a lower income rural area. I have thought about talking>> to the local sheriff but don't think it would do much good or work more>> than once. Even though there is probably a leash law the sheriff>> probably likes dogs more than bikers!
I think the first step would be to either have a face-to-face with the dog's owner, politely explaining the issue. You might get lucky. Probably not, though.
Failing that, or start here, you've got the owners' street address. Write a (polite) letter. Keep a copy for yourself. You'll need it later if your instinct is right about the owner's willingness to curb his dog.
Once you've made a good faith effort to work something out, it's time to get officials involved. Make a good faith effort to get the local PD to have a talk with the owner. Document all these communications, also.
If your instinct is correct that the PD isn't going to do anything, find out who the police report to, and present all of your documentation when you tell your story.
Continue this ever higher and higher, politely explaining the problem, showing your documentation to anyone who'll look. Eventually, somebody is going to get a call from his boss, "What the hell is going on down there? You Will Fix This. Today. I don't want to hear from this *ssh*l* again."
If you work at it, you could make it happen in a matter of months.
Or, a more confrontational method; Bring an air horn along with you. When the dog chases, blow the horn. When the owner or his neighbors complain, tell them you're just trying to warn the dog to get out of your way, because you don't want to harm the precious creature.
So Neil,>Now you are cheering the dog on?>He may not have an alternate route if it is in a country setting. What? >Just cut across farmer Jones' field and he won't care?>I don't think it works that way. I have certain routes I have to take >because I have a huge Air Force Base (Beale) in the way, and they >definitely won't let me just take a short cut through the base.>Bill Baka
If you reread my post, I'm on the dog's side because this guy strikes me as a bigot. I don't like bigots. The following comments add nothing to the substance of the story, except to tell us a bit about his character.
One of the routes that a co-worker and I regularly ride has a house>>>(trailer) where two dogs reside.
Obviously persuing the owner would be a waste of time so we are
BTW, this is in a lower income rural area.
I guess I didn't make my self clear the first time but the "owner" is>>"trailer trash" and the area is rural Harnett/Lee County, NC. Forget>>about getting help from law enforcement or suing the owner. I think I>>remember something about trying to get water from a stone. It just>>ain't going to happen.
I also think he's having just a little too much fun figuring out ways to "defend against" (read: attack) the dog, rather than talking to either the owner or law enforcement first. His comments seem to support that, too.
Thanks for everyone's ideas. I am not going to change my route to> solve this problem. If I did I would never ride in any rural areas.> The dog is the problem...Not my route!>
Unfortunately me and my co-worker ride at different paces so we each> get the chance to get chased individually usually 5-15 minutes apart!>
I guess I didn't make my self clear the first time but the "owner" is> "trailer trash" and the area is rural Harnett/Lee County, NC. Forget> about getting help from law enforcement or suing the owner. I think I> remember something about trying to get water from a stone. It just> ain't going to happen.
Mark has a good recommendation, a few posts down, to ride past this dog with your cow-orker so you have a witness. (How are you riding WITH him when you're 15 minutes apart?) I think it'd be worth one call to the sheriff. You're probably right about his response, but let him tell you he won't help. Keep a record. (Speakerphone with the coworker, perhaps?)
IIRC, NC has a law allowing you to kill any dog chasing livestock. You might want to ask the sheriff if that applies to dogs chasing people, as well.
If you want to try the pepper spray, go for it. If you've got a rack, strap on a baseball bat for backup. If that doesn't work, go for the big guns -- or at least as big as will fit in your jersey pocket.
Make sure the dog is in the road or otherwise off the owner's property when you shoot it.
As for the "be nice to the doggie" and "you're a redneck" posts, well, can you tell we're mostly a bunch of city slickers here?
We have a leash law but the police never even attempt to enforce it.>>They just drive by the dog and do nothing, and I never see an animal>>control truck come out unless someones child gets bitten or something>>along those lines.>
Perhaps the reason animal control doesn't come out is because nobody> calls them until a child is hurt. I've called them several times in> relatively benign situations (raccoon trapped under the deck, lost dogs> without their tags, etc.), and they've always been willing to help.
Forgot which county the OP was from -- do they even HAVE animal control there?
"bbaka" <bbaka@syix.com> wrote in message news:1115849777.818976@news01.syix.com...> GaryG wrote:> > "bbaka" <bbaka@syix.com> wrote in message> > news:1115780442.472500@news01.syix.com...> >>>Can anybody offer any other suggestions for dealing with the dog?
As someone pointed out, squirt guns leak. Pellet or BB pistol (CO2) is a good option, but extreme. And somewhat heavy.
For several years I have used a Bausch & Lomb Eyewash bottle. (Good product, BTW, for general dry eyes and cleansing, cheap too.) Has a snap-off cap. Holds 4 ounces. *Does not leak under any conditions.* Fill with ammonia. Much stronger than Halt, which is my preference and first line of defense. The bottle is only somewhat larger than a Halt canister. One hand does it; snaps cap off and squirts a fat stream at close range. Ammonia anywhere in a dog's face is extremely painful.
Those dog apologists who have never been bitten or tossed of their bike by a free- roaming dog might find it useful to have some experience in these matters before theorizing. That's my theory.
In NY State, biters have to be quarantined at owner's expense for ten days, to make sure rabies doesn't manifest.
Many dog owners seem oblivious to their obnoxious "kids." Dogs allowed to jump up on visitors, dogs allowed to poke and sniff crotches of visitors (the ladies love this, I'm sure), with owners mildly rebuking the dog, the dog paying no attention. In these instances, it's obvious who is on which end of the psychological leash.
Well-behaved and controlled dogs are another matter entirely.
"Maggie" <lbuset@allsecretarial.com> wrote in news:1115891348.347113.54620 @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill Sornson wrote:>> Maggie wrote:>> > Rich wrote:>>
P.S. And join the NRA. TH=hey will help defend
your>> >> right to bare arms in the event you need to go to>> >> court. >>
Just what we need, another member of the NRA.>>
Maggie>> >
Member of the Million Mom March>>
Yeah, but do you ladies have BARE ARMS?>>
Bill "pssst, Maggie. He was joking" S.>
Psssst Bill.....My brain goes into overdrive when I
read> the initials NRA.......And yes the million Moms have "bare> arms". >
Strong BARE ARMS to cradle babies and children
instead of> guns. >
Maggie.>
Protect your right to arm bears.
Mike
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"Geezer Boy" <GeezerBoy@righthere.com> wrote in message news:ne2881tvrmigj4jn321tucjgqfis7b60qa@4ax.com...>
As someone pointed out, squirt guns leak. Pellet or BB pistol (CO2) is> a good option, but extreme. And somewhat heavy.>
For several years I have used a Bausch & Lomb Eyewash bottle. (Good> product, BTW, for general dry eyes and cleansing, cheap too.) Has a> snap-off cap. Holds 4 ounces. *Does not leak under any conditions.*> Fill with ammonia. Much stronger than Halt, which is my preference and> first line of defense. The bottle is only somewhat larger than a Halt> canister. One hand does it; snaps cap off and squirts a fat stream at> close range. Ammonia anywhere in a dog's face is extremely painful.
Halt is watered down pepper spray.
Have you tried the full strength pepper spray? It fits in a jersey pocket, and has a 10-12 foot range, and can be used against two-legged attackers as well.
I'd be worred about causing permanent injury to the dog with ammonia.
GG
Those dog apologists who have never been bitten or tossed of their> bike by a free- roaming dog might find it useful to have some> experience in these matters before theorizing. That's my theory.>
In NY State, biters have to be quarantined at owner's expense for ten> days, to make sure rabies doesn't manifest.>
Many dog owners seem oblivious to their obnoxious "kids." Dogs> allowed to jump up on visitors, dogs allowed to poke and sniff> crotches of visitors (the ladies love this, I'm sure), with owners> mildly rebuking the dog, the dog paying no attention. In these> instances, it's obvious who is on which end of the psychological> leash.>
Well-behaved and controlled dogs are another matter entirely.>
How the hell do people live out west. I will visit, but give me Joisey>any day.
Come on. You guys have at least as many ways to die as we do . . . it's just that ours come from four-legged animals while yours come from those with two
Pat Lamb <pdl678NOSPAM@comcast.net> wrote in news:3ehh52F36dhaU1@individual.net:
Forgot which county the OP was from -- do they even> HAVE animal control there?>
OP is in Harnett/Lee County in NC, just south of Raleigh/Chapel Hill.
In Western North Carolina, where I grew up, there were dog packs made up of some reprobate dogs and some dogs truly feral. Random encounters with a pack was not a big deal as confrontation tactics (ie, "I'm a bigger and meaner dog than you all.") usually worked. These packs have all but disappeared here brcause of animal control.
There are a LOT more pit bulls and a few of those are abandoned and go feral.
I encounted a pit bull pup up by Needmore, (near Nantahala Gorge,) on NC28. I had stopped to eat and rest and was surprised by him. He got my banana (which he was welcome to,)and wanted the gatorade. I think he was mostly looking to get adopted but would have taken any opportunity that presented. I tried the dismount and block technique as I walked to the next descent. If he had been full grown and healthy I don't think the bike barrier would have given him much trouble. He would've been too strong and fast.
So, I don't have much confidence in those scenarios which recommend dismounted combat with full-on war dogs. If you're on the bike and can sprint that's the best play I think. Just like in American Flyers with the "training partner".
I agree with the OP's lack of confidence in LEA in the rural South. Go through the steps so you can say you did, but don't hold your breath.
Mike
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"Steve Sr." <Nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:qtk281dilstfo40lua2ril1bhgfkj8usn2@4ax.com...> Hello,>
One of the routes that a co-worker and I regularly ride has a house> (trailer) where two dogs reside. The first is an older yellow lab mix> and the second is a much younger (and faster!) pit-bull.>
Both of these dogs act like they are out for blood although neither> has caught me or my co-worker yet. But they have come too close for my> comfort. The road at this point in the ride is slightly uphill making> it hard to out run them although on a good day the lab gives up fairly> easily.>
The pit bull is a different story. He tries to circle around you and> get in your way to slow you down. One day he got close enough to my> left heel that I unclipped and kicked him in the head as hard as I> could. Boy did he act surprised that his "prey" fought back!>
Unfortunately that lesson didn't take. Since then we thought that we> had him trained by squirting water from our water bottles at him but> lately even this has begun to loose its effectiveness.>
Obviously persuing the owner would be a waste of time so we are> looking for other suggestions to train the dog not to chase bikes. I> have thought about trying bitter apple in a squirt gun but have been> unable to find an appropriate sized squirt gun anymore. I also wonder> about aiming such a small stream of liquid at a moving target while on> a moving bicycle.>
I am begining to think about pepper spray but it has similar> limitations in aiming and other consequences if the wind happens to> blow the wrong way. Another possibility would be a handful of rocks> thrown simultaneously. I would definitely hit the target but doubt> that I would cause enough damage to work more than once.>
A pellet gun would probably inflict enough pain on the dog that he> wouldn't forget soon, but I don't have one and don't really want to> buy one just for this purpose if I can avoid it.>
Can anybody offer any other suggestions for dealing with the dog?>
BTW, this is in a lower income rural area. I have thought about> talking to the local sheriff but don't think it would do much good or> work more than once. Even though there is probably a leash law the> sheriff probably likes dogs more than bikers!>
Thanks,>
Steve
Well when I was a younger kid, I used to have the same problem but with an old Irish Setter, I used to carry a little water pistol filled with vinegar and water. I remember it worked like a charm.
