I have a conference at home (Las Vegas) in a couple of weeks. I'll be there an extra couple of days.
I've had the odd idea to bring the bicycle with me as transportation.
It's nothign spectalar; just for commuting a couple of miles each day. A Trek 4300 or some such that was the back to school sale a couple of years ago; fairly generic mountain bike with quick release front & back.
If I simply wrap it in a cardboard box, is it likely to survive? I've seen the case, but they all cost more than the bicycle, which is close to disposable . . .
A luggage would also have to be transported, which would be an issue. If I could pack the bike this way, I could just pack in my old seabag and wear it aas a backpack . . .
hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu 111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail Find commentary on law, economics, and X and postings. other issues of the day at dochawk.org! / \
I know some airlines will let you take a bike for free without counting towards your two bag limit. I'm not sure, but I think they might even give you a bike box to pack it in. Your bike should be fine in one of those special boxes. I've had my new bike shipped across Canada in one and it was perfectly fine. You'll have to disassemble it a little though.
(clip)Your bike should be fine in one of those special boxes. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Won't an LBS give you a shipping carton? They must throw away lots of 'em. I like the suggestion of buying a folder. I use my Dahon a lot, because it fits in my car. I drop my wife near the entrance of whatever (fair, festival, concert, etc.) She gets in line while I drive a mile or two to park the car free. In some cases, the decision to go or not go has been influenced by the ease and cost of parking.
: Won't an LBS give you a shipping carton? They must throw away lots of 'em. : I like the suggestion of buying a folder. I use my Dahon a lot, because it : fits in my car. I drop my wife near the entrance of whatever (fair, : festival, concert, etc.) She gets in line while I drive a mile or two to : park the car free. In some cases, the decision to go or not go has been : influenced by the ease and cost of parking.
Excellent idea, Smithers! Do you mind if I use this excuse, too? What do you do with the Dahon after you ride back to the festival?
:: : Specifically about shipping bikes. I've done it with both bike boxes : and the special transport cases. Both worked fine. : : My only caveat is that with the new rules about not being able to lock : your luggage I think there is a much greater risk of stuff going : missing.
I just got back from traveling to Charlotte and back to DFW. In the Charlotte airport, Brookstone had several different locks for sale that are TSA approved. It seems they have a special key to open these locks without having to know the code. If you use a TSA approved lock, everything ought to be fine.
And it takes longer to get the items when you DEPLANE. I love>>> that word DE-PLANE. It's so stupid.
You're absolutely right, DE-PLANE is just about the stupidest word>> there is.
Not to Tattoo.
I guess we owe that to the days of traveling by ship where you embarked and debarked or even disembarked. Merriam-Webster OnLine believes embark and debark are appropriate for air travel although travel agents apparently like the specific term "plane" never having gotten on a sailing ship for travel.
: : I guess we owe that to the days of traveling by ship where you : embarked and debarked or even disembarked. Merriam-Webster OnLine : believes embark and debark are appropriate for air travel although : travel agents apparently like the specific term "plane" never having : gotten on a sailing ship for travel. : : Jobst.Brandt@stanfordalumni.org
And, that debarked probably came from the ship called a Barque.....
I took my bike to Alaska recently and I used the same box it was shipped to me in when it was new. Just a factory shipping box. I did reinforce the box with some thin sheets of plastic styrofoam corrugated stuff (Like they make signs with) just for extra protection.
Going to Alaska, American airlines charged me $80 and the bike was checked through to the destination (I did change airlines). On the return trip, Alaska airlines charged me $50 and again it was checked through to my destination (again I did change airlines). Far as I can tell the only way you can substitute a bike for one of your regular checked bags is if it meets their size and weight requirement for a checked bag. Most bike boxes are too big. Ergo, the extra charge. My bike came through unscathed both flights, but the box took a pretty good beating. I was glad I had reinforced the box with the plastic sheets.
That was my experience. I also looked into renting a bike, but some places wanted $30-50 per day and they didn't even have the kind of bike I wanted.
Sid
"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" <hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu> wrote in message news:d1s1ds$ugi$2@f04n12.cac.psu.edu...>I have a conference at home (Las Vegas) in a couple of weeks. I'll be> there an extra couple of days.>
I've had the odd idea to bring the bicycle with me as transportation.>
It's nothign spectalar; just for commuting a couple of miles each day.> A Trek 4300 or some such that was the back to school sale a couple of> years ago; fairly generic mountain bike with quick release front & back.>
If I simply wrap it in a cardboard box, is it likely to survive? I've> seen the case, but they all cost more than the bicycle, which is close> to disposable . . .>
A luggage would also have to be transported, which would be an issue.> If I could pack the bike this way, I could just pack in my old seabag> and wear it aas a backpack . . .>
hawk> -- > Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon > campaign> dochawk@psu.edu 111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail> Find commentary on law, economics, and X and postings.> other issues of the day at dochawk.org! / \
If I simply wrap it in a cardboard box, is it likely to survive? I've>seen the case, but they all cost more than the bicycle, which is close>to disposable . . .
Some LBS's rent bike cases, if you're interested.
Chris Neary diabloridr@comcast.net
"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote:> I have a conference at home (Las Vegas) in a couple of weeks. I'll
there an extra couple of days.>
I've had the odd idea to bring the bicycle with me as transportation.>
It's nothign spectalar; just for commuting a couple of miles each
day.> A Trek 4300 or some such that was the back to school sale a couple of> years ago; fairly generic mountain bike with quick release front & back.>
If I simply wrap it in a cardboard box, is it likely to survive?
I've> seen the case, but they all cost more than the bicycle, which is close> to disposable . . .
We've traveled overseas, taking our bikes on flights. We didn't rent or buy, because for a long bike tour, we wanted to use our own nice touring bikes.
We got standard bike cartons - the ones new bikes arrive in - from our LBS. Disassembly and reassembly were a bit tedious (what with racks, fenders, etc. for touring).
The bikes survived, despite astonishingly bad treatment. We witnessed our "This End UP!" bike cartons laid on their side on the roof of a luggage truck. We watched as the "Fragile!" cartons were pushed from that height directly to the ground. Pack well!
If I had it to do over again with those bikes, I'd add wheels or casters to one corner of the box; the cartons are large and unwieldy.
For a couple day trip with little riding, I'd consider borrowing, renting or buying a junker. (You say Vegas is "home." Do you have friends there who can scare up a bike for you?)
If I made such trips frequently, I'd get a folding bike.
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:> Bill Sornson writes:>
And it takes longer to get the items when you DEPLANE. I love>>>> that word DE-PLANE. It's so stupid.>
You're absolutely right, DE-PLANE is just about the stupidest word>>> there is.>
Not to Tattoo.>
I guess we owe that to the days of traveling by ship where you> embarked and debarked or even disembarked. Merriam-Webster OnLine> believes embark and debark are appropriate for air travel although> travel agents apparently like the specific term "plane" never having> gotten on a sailing ship for travel.
Not sure why you replied to me since you in no way addressed what I wrote, but...
Debarked is what happens to a tree in a big dog's yard. (Eventually.)
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote: (clip)Merriam-Webster OnLine believes embark and debark are appropriate (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If I say "debark," my friends assume I am talking about wood.
"Pat" wrote: (clip) What do you do with the Dahon after you ride back to the festival? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm glad you asked. Depends on the event. At the state fair in Sacramento, I kept it with me, and used it whenever I had to go back to the car, for food, etc. At the Scottish Games in Pleasanton, I cabled it to a post, within sight of a security guard. At an indoor concert, I fold it and take it inside. One time I stashed it in the aisle of a university classroom. Sometimes, at a flea market I'll bungee a carton to the rack, and use it as my shopping cart.
Claire Petersky 24 March 2005 08:39:11 [ permanent link ]
"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" <hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu> wrote in message news:d1s1ds$ugi$2@f04n12.cac.psu.edu...> I have a conference at home (Las Vegas) in a couple of weeks. I'll be> there an extra couple of days.>
I've had the odd idea to bring the bicycle with me as transportation.
: "Pat" wrote: (clip) What do you do with the Dahon after you ride back to the : festival? : ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ : I'm glad you asked. Depends on the event. At the state fair in Sacramento, : I kept it with me, and used it whenever I had to go back to the car, for : food, etc. At the Scottish Games in Pleasanton, I cabled it to a post, : within sight of a security guard. At an indoor concert, I fold it and take : it inside. One time I stashed it in the aisle of a university classroom. : Sometimes, at a flea market I'll bungee a carton to the rack, and use it as : my shopping cart.
Now, I'm really envious! How is it riding such small wheels? A friend of mine let me ride his Bike Friday once, but it was larger than the Dahon, I believe.
<frkrygow@yahoo.com> wrote We've traveled overseas, taking our bikes on flights. We didn't rent> or buy, because for a long bike tour, we wanted to use our own nice> touring bikes.>
We got standard bike cartons - the ones new bikes arrive in - from our> LBS. Disassembly and reassembly were a bit tedious (what with racks,> fenders, etc. for touring).>
The bikes survived, despite astonishingly bad treatment. We witnessed> our "This End UP!" bike cartons laid on their side on the roof of a> luggage truck. We watched as the "Fragile!" cartons were pushed from> that height directly to the ground. Pack well!>
If I had it to do over again with those bikes, I'd add wheels or> casters to one corner of the box; the cartons are large and unwieldy.>
For a couple day trip with little riding, I'd consider borrowing,> renting or buying a junker. (You say Vegas is "home." Do you have> friends there who can scare up a bike for you?)>
If I made such trips frequently, I'd get a folding bike.>
I've flown overseas and back with a bike 3 times in 5 years for the same reason. I used a cardboard box twice, and checked the bike unboxed once. I'm convinced that when baggage handlers see a cardboard box they treat it like a cardboard box, and just throw it around with no thought as to what's inside. After all, if all you can afford is a cardboard box to put your belongings in, how expensive can the belongings inside be? When they see a large touring bike with racks and fenders that may or may not fit into a suitcase they tend to treat it with a little more care.
FWIW, when I checked an unboxed bike British Airways treated the bike quite carefully, and it arrived unscathed. I've concluded that the best way to bring a bike by air is to put it into a very high quality hardshell travel case, second best is to hand them an unboxed bike and hope they will recognize that they are handling an object that is a bit more vulnerable than most of the luggage that they handle. A cardboard box would be third best, and pack the bike very carefully.
My advice to the OP is to buy a clunker when he gets to Vegas, and invest in a folder with a good travel case if he wants to do a lot of this kind of thing. -- mark
I've flown overseas and back with a bike 3 times in 5 years for the
same> reason. I used a cardboard box twice, and checked the bike unboxed once. I'm> convinced that when baggage handlers see a cardboard box they treat it like> a cardboard box, and just throw it around with no thought as to what's> inside. ...>
FWIW, when I checked an unboxed bike British Airways treated the bike
quite> carefully, and it arrived unscathed.
That's been my exact experience. The first time we went overseas, in 1976, it was on British Airways, and they said "No box necessary; just remove pedals and turn handlebars sideways." They treated the bikes perfectly.
The second time was on a charter flight. They said "Bikes must be boxed." It was _much_ more hassle and, as I described, quite scary to watch the way they were treated.
Does British Airways still allow unboxed bikes? If so, I'd fly them next time.
Mike Latondresse 24 March 2005 22:41:44 [ permanent link ]
"Maggie" <lbuset@allsecretarial.com> wrote in news:1111608766.350831.35670@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
If you bring a bicycle on a plane, don't expect to get it back in> good condition unless you put it in cast iron and then put the> cast iron in cement.
Maggie I go over to France ever other year to ride and have used Air France, Air Canada, Canadian (before it went bankrupt) and KLM. All I ever do is put pipe insulators over all of the tubes and the fork and put it in one of the airline plastic bags. It has never suffered any damage, perhaps because it can be readily identified as a bike plus I can easily fold the bag and stick it in the car when we use that.
Dennis Ferguson 24 March 2005 22:55:43 [ permanent link ]
On 2005-03-24, frkrygow@yahoo.com <frkrygow@yahoo.com> wrote:> The bikes survived, despite astonishingly bad treatment. We witnessed> our "This End UP!" bike cartons laid on their side on the roof of a> luggage truck. We watched as the "Fragile!" cartons were pushed from> that height directly to the ground. Pack well!>
If I had it to do over again with those bikes, I'd add wheels or> casters to one corner of the box; the cartons are large and unwieldy.
I believe the fact that the cartons are large and unwieldy, not only for you but for the baggage handlers, is precisely the reason why they seem to attract so much abuse. Even a bare bike is easier to handle.
I took my S&S-coupled bike on 18 flights last year. While I have a hard case I almost exclusively used the canvas bag to carry it since it requires less disassembly to get the bike to fit. The canvas case is not so tough that I would expect the bike to survive the hard treatment you describe undamaged, yet the worst that ever happened to my bike was a wheel getting a wee bit bent out-of-true, something easily corrected with a trip to a bike shop at the destination. And, in fact, even that problem may have been primarily self-inflicted since more care in packing during the latter half of the year (coupled with an apparent lessening of interest by the TSA in openning the bag?) seemed to prevent it entirely.
I don't think normal-sized baggage attracts anywhere near the abuse of the oversized, hard-to-handle stuff. On some Asian flights I have taken a substantial fraction of the normal-sized baggage is cardboard (balikbayan) cartons which come out on the luggage carrousel appearing entirely unscathed even though the few large, awkward cartons off the same flight in the oversize area (including mine) looked like they'd been through a war.
If the bike's case is hard for you to handle it is also hard for the baggage handlers to handle, and the latter is an invitation for hard handling. I really, really like S&S coupled bikes for travel.
"Pat" wrote: (clip)How is it riding such small wheels? (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I have a model with 20" wheels, and it handles reasonably well. I used to have a Dahon with 16" wheels, and the handling was somewhat squirrelly, but I am not sure how much was due to the wheel size, and how much to the frame geometry. Since I have other bikes, the folder is never my choice for real riding.
BTW, I nevlected to mention that the folder is extremely handy when I have to leave the car for service.
Pat wrote:> :> : I guess we owe that to the days of traveling by ship where you> : embarked and debarked or even disembarked. Merriam-Webster OnLine> : believes embark and debark are appropriate for air travel although> : travel agents apparently like the specific term "plane" never having> : gotten on a sailing ship for travel.> :> : Jobst.Brandt@stanfordalumni.org>
And, that debarked probably came from the ship called a Barque.....>
In Patrick O'Brian's great "Aubrey and Maturin" series of novels (aka "Master and Commander"), Capt. Aubrey refers to any ship he's in as 'the barky'.
Dennis Ferguson wrote:> On 2005-03-24, frkrygow@yahoo.com <frkrygow@yahoo.com> wrote:>> The bikes survived, despite astonishingly bad treatment. We>> witnessed our "This End UP!" bike cartons laid on their side on the>> roof of a luggage truck. We watched as the "Fragile!" cartons were>> pushed from that height directly to the ground. Pack well!>>
If I had it to do over again with those bikes, I'd add wheels or>> casters to one corner of the box; the cartons are large and unwieldy.>
I believe the fact that the cartons are large and unwieldy, not only> for you but for the baggage handlers, is precisely the reason why they> seem to attract so much abuse. Even a bare bike is easier to handle.>
I took my S&S-coupled bike on 18 flights last year. While I have a> hard case I almost exclusively used the canvas bag to carry it since> it requires less disassembly to get the bike to fit. The canvas case> is not so> tough that I would expect the bike to survive the hard treatment you> describe undamaged, yet the worst that ever happened to my bike was> a wheel getting a wee bit bent out-of-true, something easily corrected> with a trip to a bike shop at the destination. And, in fact, even> that problem may have been primarily self-inflicted since more care> in packing during the latter half of the year (coupled with an> apparent lessening> of interest by the TSA in openning the bag?) seemed to prevent it> entirely.>
I don't think normal-sized baggage attracts anywhere near the abuse of> the oversized, hard-to-handle stuff. On some Asian flights I have> taken> a substantial fraction of the normal-sized baggage is cardboard> (balikbayan) cartons which come out on the luggage carrousel appearing> entirely unscathed even though the few large, awkward cartons off the> same flight in the oversize area (including mine) looked like they'd> been through a war.>
If the bike's case is hard for you to handle it is also hard for the> baggage handlers to handle, and the latter is an invitation for hard> handling. I really, really like S&S coupled bikes for travel.
I agree about soft luggage in general. It can absorb shock very well too -- I've had great luck with canvas camera and computer bags.
Which bag do you have, exactly?
I'm trying to find out everything I can, because I'll probably invest in one of these bikes in the near future. Not only would flying with my bike be easier, but putting it in *any* car as well.
<frkrygow@yahoo.com> wrote> That's been my exact experience. The first time we went overseas, in> 1976, it was on British Airways, and they said "No box necessary; just> remove pedals and turn handlebars sideways." They treated the bikes> perfectly.>
The second time was on a charter flight. They said "Bikes must be> boxed." It was _much_ more hassle and, as I described, quite scary to> watch the way they were treated.
From what I've heard, charter airlines and discount airlines tend to treat all baggage more roughly than major airlines. My guess is that they don't pay as well as the major airlines, and they tend to allow less time for loading and unloading aircraft to save labor costs and other costs. This is just a guess, any airline industry people care to comment?
I've always arrived quite early for my flights, I think this gives the baggage handlers a little more time to cope with what is, after all, a more cumbersome piece of luggage than most. I suspect that if I were to show up at the last minute with an unboxed bike it would be treated a little less carefully by any airline.>
Does British Airways still allow unboxed bikes? If so, I'd fly them> next time.>
They do allow unboxed bikes, but the website shows some fairly stringent size limits for their Airbus aircraft. Not a problem between the US and the UK, but for a flight within Europe you might want to find out what aircraft you'll be flying on and check the size restrictions. I believe these size restrictions are due to the design of the aircraft cargo hold. I've used their Denver-London service twice and thought they ran a very good operation. -- mark
: : A little more detail on our incident: We flew that charter into : Dublin, Ireland, and it was the baggage crew at Dublin that pulled the : "Stack 'em on the truck roof, then push them off" trick. Would those : people be employed by the airport? : : I agree that it's likely that unweildy luggage could make those guys : surly.
I would like to hear more about your Ireland trip. I am thinking of going there sometime this summer.
: Pat wrote: : > : : > I would like to hear more about your Ireland trip. I am thinking of : going : > there sometime this summer. : : What would you like to know?
First of all, I probably would not be taking a bike. Did you notice any places to rent bikes? Did you stay at Bed and Breakfast places, and, if so, what is an acceptable price range. The last time I was in Ireland was in 1986, and I bet the prices have gone up a bit since then, when it was approx. 1 pound per person per night. What month did you go? Was the rain much of a problem? What about tourist 'load'? Somebody said, "Don't go in August--it's too hot!" but, really, I am used to Texas heat and riding in the heat. Once, I had a soccer game when it was 105. It was tough, but I'm still alive, if you know what I mean. I plan to go on the north west coast around Ennis in county Clare. I want to find where my ancestors lived before they got on the boat in Ennistymon in 1842.
Any hints you could give would be appreciated. Pat in TX :
Dennis Ferguson 26 March 2005 00:15:50 [ permanent link ]
Matt O'Toole wrote:> I agree about soft luggage in general. It can absorb shock very well too -- > I've had great luck with canvas camera and computer bags.>
I believe that the hard case provides better protection for the bike against exteme mishandling, particularly with the compression members added, but a couple of issues with it are problems for me. The hard case creates some fairly tight constraints on the size of the bike. I have (and like) my steerer tube cut a bit long, which means I have to forceably wedge the front fork into the case to get it to fit at all. In addition, when I've taken the bike somewhere the need find storage for the hard case and return later to pick it up is sometimes annoying. With the backpack case I have the option of folding it up and bungee cording it to the bike rack if I want to.
I hence almost exclusively use the backpack case for travel now. I've had no trouble with damage to the bike since I began taking great care to get the wheels well supported and padded to avoid having them bent in transit.
I'm trying to find out everything I can, because I'll probably invest in one of> these bikes in the near future. Not only would flying with my bike be easier,> but putting it in *any* car as well.
My favourite thing about the S&S bike is that I can carry it places that normally wouldn't take a bicycle. I spend time in Hong Kong, and when riding in the traffic there begins to bug me I'll sometimes take the bike into mainland China for a long weekend credit card tour. The trouble with doing this with a normal bike is that neither the mainland buses nor (as far as I've been able to tell) the China ferries leaving Hong Kong seem to be willing to carry a bicycle, bicycles have recently been banned from Hong Kong trains and even a taxi ride to the ferry terminal can be trouble if you have to persuade the driver to let you jam a full size bike into the trunk. When all you're carrying is a big suitcase, however, none of this is a problem.
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote: (clip) Bringing (clip) or (clip) taking (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Very important point--I knew something was bothering me, but I couldn't put my finger on it. If you are departing, you say to the person at your destination: "I am bringing a bike on the plane." You say to the person who drove you to the airport, "I am taking a bike on the plane." This has been thoroughly discussed by Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers, on Car Talk.
Thanks for bringing this up. I have now taken the matter up.
"NFN Smith" wrote: (clip) I know that UPS Stores have a preference of doing the packing themselves, especially if you're insuring.(clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I used to work for a company that shipped large numbers of packages by UPS. Whenever there was damage, their automatic reaction was: "It's not our fault. The packaging was inadequate." We usually won the argument, but had to fight them over each one.
If you have them do the packaging you will be in a better position if the bike gets bent.
