Wandering through the 1981 Wisden, I came across the match between Young New Zealand and DH Robins Under 23 XI. DHR's XI weren't an official Young England party, though that didn't stop the NZ board from promoting them as such, but the real thing probably wouldn't have been all that different.
DH Robins' XI Young NZ K Sharp IA Rutherford CWJ Athey MD Crowe RG Williams *MH Toynbee DN Patel BR Blair *CS Cowdrey PN Webb C Maynard AH Jones KJ Barnett +IDS Smith +CJ Richards MC Snedden ACS Pigott VR Brown NGB Cook SR Gillespie WG Merry GK Robertson
The NZ batting order is only approximate: Snedden came in as a nightwatchman in the first innings, and Gillespie and Smith batted much higher second time round than they had in the first dig, so what their original intended order was is anyone's guess.
As so often with these teams, some made it and some didn't. I'll just run through the Robins's XI, in the hope that someone else will come up with a rundown of the Kiwi Eggs XI.
Kevin Sharp: got excellent reviews as a teenager, and for a while it looked as though Yorkshire had discovered a second David Gower; same curls, same easy strokes, same wafts outside off. Like many young players at Yorks during the Boycott Wars, never really managed to develop his potential.
Bill Athey: regarded as outrageously talented as a teenager, but also a veteran of the Boycott Wars, later moving to Glos. Played for England several times without embarrassing himself but little more.
Richard Williams: a bonsai batsman of the early 80s, who gave Northants a good few solid seasons. A mate of mine at the office used to go on and on about how good he was, but I think you probably had to be a Northants member to have that high an opinion of him.
Dipak Patel: made a century and a 50 in the game in question and was regarded as an all-rounder of some potential. Moved to New Zealand before England could make the mistake of picking him and let NZ do it instead.
Chris Cowdrey: son of Colin, and therefore showered with accolades and captaincies from an early age, as the Establishment Expected. Decent enough county all-rounder who got taken on the 1984-85 tour of India, played in all five Tests and was one of the few England players to do nothing at all of any interest. Wisely not picked again, except for his episode in the famous 1988 farce "Captains Outrageous" when he was dragged in to lose the Headingley Test.
Chris Maynard: apparently went on to keep wicket for Warks and then Lancs until 1986, but I have absolutely no recollection of him.
Kim Barnett: from his place in the order, must still have been at the point where he was thought to be a promising leggie who could bat a bit. Turned out in the end that he could bat more than a bit and had a very successful county career with Derbyshire and Glos. Probably good enough to have had a decent Test career, but fluffed his chance when he got it and never quite managed to get back to the head of the queue.
Jack Richards: good-class keeper who could also bat a bit, and was good enough to play for England. However, not so good that he could afford to rub people up the wrong way, a pastime at which he was apparently an ATG.
Tony Pigott: Imagine the scene: it's your wedding day, and the priest has just asked if anyone knows of any reason why these two should not be joined in matrimony and some fool of an England cricket official pipes up to say that half the England side are dead or dying and there's a Test match starting down the road in a few minutes and would the groom mind awfully taking off the penguin suit and climbing into his cricket gear because we're desperate? Well, it wasn't quite like that, but he was indeed in NZ for his wedding when he got an emergency call-up. Didn't do too badly for someone who was definitely only a decent county tall fast bowler with a somewhat lax discipline on the line front.
Nick Cook: Off-spinner good enough to play 15 moderately successful Test for England, but was mostly not preferred to John Emburey. Probably bowled best in his tours to Pakistan, which meant no-one in England saw it. Possibly somewhat underrated, in that most people have forgotten about him completely but he was actually OK.
Bill Merry: Looked rather like the young Flintoff - and bowled like him. Could never break into a Middlesex attack which boasted Daniel, Cowans, Emburey and Edmonds, plus Williams, Hughes, another spinner or a useful all-rounder, and drifted off to play Minor Counties cricket for Herts.
Andrew Dunford 28 April 2005 06:05:24 [ permanent link ]
"Aditya Basrur" <sandaas_rocks@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1114649672.833728.123610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...>
Mike Holmans wrote:> > Wandering through the 1981 Wisden, I came across the match between> > Young New Zealand and DH Robins Under 23 XI. DHR's XI weren't an> > official Young England party, though that didn't stop the NZ board> > from promoting them as such, but the real thing probably wouldn't> have> > been all that different.> >
DH Robins' XI Young NZ> > K Sharp IA Rutherford> > CWJ Athey MD Crowe> > RG Williams *MH Toynbee> > DN Patel BR Blair> > *CS Cowdrey PN Webb> > C Maynard AH Jones> > KJ Barnett +IDS Smith> > +CJ Richards MC Snedden> > ACS Pigott VR Brown> > NGB Cook SR Gillespie> > WG Merry GK Robertson> >
The NZ batting order is only approximate: Snedden came in as a> > nightwatchman in the first innings, and Gillespie and Smith batted> > much higher second time round than they had in the first dig, so what> > their original intended order was is anyone's guess.> >
As so often with these teams, some made it and some didn't. I'll just> > run through the Robins's XI, in the hope that someone else will come> > up with a rundown of the Kiwi Eggs XI.>
Well, I can only try. And then find Dunford's done a better job.
I appear to have duplicated some of your valuable contribution. The fact that we both described Matt Toynbee as a 'journeyman' without either having seen the other's contribution is a bit disturbing.
<snip>
(BTW, Andrew, scorecards reveal an RW Fulton who opened the innings for> Canterbury in the mid-1970s. Is he Peter's father?)
Uncle. Rod Fulton is probably better remembered for his administrative role in the aftermath of the pot-smoking South African tour of 1994/95.
MD Crowe: Chap who plied his trade for Auckland, Wellington and New> Zealand.
Worth mentioning Crowe's stint at Central Districts, to where he defected from Auckland in the mid-80s with stunning success, hitting 13 centuries in 32 matches and almost single-handedly leading CD to the Shell Trophy title in 1986/87. Auckland v CD matches of the era were legendary for the needle between the two teams, not forgetting it is said that John Bracewell retired prematurely from Test cricket in 1990 because Crowe was about to become captain.
<snip>
So all in all, four players out of eleven who 'made it'. Not bad, I> guess.
Good stuff. My only quibble is an apparent fixation with associating players with Otago (neither Toynbee or Robertson ever played for them).
Chuckles The Scary Clown 28 April 2005 08:58:10 [ permanent link ]
"Mike Holmans" <mike@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:r50071hevj679lc9t0o7qrkut55cj7kkt7@4ax.com...
Nick Cook: Off-spinner good enough to play 15 moderately successful> Test for England, but was mostly not preferred to John Emburey.> Probably bowled best in his tours to Pakistan, which meant no-one in> England saw it. Possibly somewhat underrated, in that most people have> forgotten about him completely but he was actually OK.>
I remember him making his debut in 1983 against NZ here in England (Emburey et al were still banned following the South Africa rebel tour) and IIRC bagged 17 wkts in his first 2 tests including 2 5-fers.
Big things were expected from him after that but his test career seemed to fizzle out.
In article <r50071hevj679lc9t0o7qrkut55cj7kkt7@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans <mike@jackalope.demon.co.uk> writes:>Nick Cook: Off-spinner good enough to play 15 moderately successful>Test for England, but was mostly not preferred to John Emburey.>Probably bowled best in his tours to Pakistan, which meant no-one in>England saw it. Possibly somewhat underrated, in that most people have>forgotten about him completely but he was actually OK.
Actually a slow left-armer, so it was Phil Edmonds whom he was mostly not preferred to. -- John Hall
"I am not young enough to know everything." Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Andrew Dunford 28 April 2005 14:23:43 [ permanent link ]
"Aditya Basrur" <sandaas_rocks@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1114668541.178126.21730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...>
Andrew Dunford wrote:>
Well, I can only try. And then find Dunford's done a better job.> >
I appear to have duplicated some of your valuable contribution. The> fact> > that we both described Matt Toynbee as a 'journeyman' without either> having> > seen the other's contribution is a bit disturbing.>
Not for some people. I'm sure Gafool will try to use it to assist with> his cut/paste theory about my posts, since he himself knows nothing> about Cricket. I can't wait to see how he explains his way around my> earlier timestamp. I'm expecting the usual gibberish with misplaced> apostrophes and excessive spaces, to reflect the vast ones in his head.>
MD Crowe: Chap who plied his trade for Auckland, Wellington and New> > > Zealand.> >
Worth mentioning Crowe's stint at Central Districts, to where he> defected> > from Auckland in the mid-80s with stunning success, hitting 13> centuries in> > 32 matches and almost single-handedly leading CD to the Shell Trophy> title> > in 1986/87. Auckland v CD matches of the era were legendary for the> needle> > between the two teams, not forgetting it is said that John Bracewell> retired> > prematurely from Test cricket in 1990 because Crowe was about to> become> > captain.>
Did Greatbatch and Ian Smith move down at the same time, or slightly> later?
Moved down from where? His high horse? Smith was Central Districts born and bred, playing in the Manawatu region in the late 70s then Hawke's Bay after that.
Greatbatch took a long time to flourish in Auckland, despite appearing to possess talent. AFAIR he basically followed MD Crowe to CD in 1986/87, knuckled down and worked much harder (he wasn't the fittest in his earlier days) and enjoyed almost immediate success. I recall seeing him running laps around Lancaster Park after the close of play and thinking "this bloke is serious" and of course he was a Test player a season later.
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:54:27 +0100, John Hall <nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:
In article <r50071hevj679lc9t0o7qrkut55cj7kkt7@4ax.com>,> Mike Holmans <mike@jackalope.demon.co.uk> writes:>>Nick Cook: Off-spinner good enough to play 15 moderately successful>>Test for England, but was mostly not preferred to John Emburey.>>Probably bowled best in his tours to Pakistan, which meant no-one in>>England saw it. Possibly somewhat underrated, in that most people have>>forgotten about him completely but he was actually OK.>
Actually a slow left-armer, so it was Phil Edmonds whom he was mostly>not preferred to.
My mistake, sorry. Though I'd mildly dispute that it was Edmonds he was mostly not preferred to, on the grounds that England quite usually picked only one spinner, especially at home, and that when we picked one, it was usually an off-spinner, so the fact that he and Edmonds were the two most likely SLAs is to my mind a bit beside the point.
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:49:54 +1200, "Andrew Dunford" <adunford@artifax.net> tapped the keyboard and brought forth: <snip>
MD Toynbee: journeyman Central Districts batsman and some-time off-spinner.>Main claim to fame was the hat-trick he claimed for CD v ND in 1979/80, the>first in New Zealand since a young bloke with impressive sideburns named RJ>Hadlee had achieved the feat in 1971/72.
This little summary is perhaps the most perplexing, then. Why was this bloke captaining the YNZ side? From the other notes, it would seem to me that Snedden or perhaps Rutherford would have been more likely skippers, so what did Toynbee have going for him?> <snip>>IDS Smith: had a couple of seasons of f-c cricket behind him but was still>some way away from 'making the grade'. Managed to shoulder his way past>incumbent 'keeper Warren Lees into the Test side the following season, when>he made an inauspicious start by conceding 23 byes in a single day of the>Test match against India at Eden Park. Always a dasher, his batting didn't>really bloom until 1982/83.
However, in this match he made 72 coming in at 9, vastly improving YNZ's position from an uncomfortable 163/7 to 276/8, though he made up for it with a duck in the second innings.>
MC Snedden: earmarked from early days as being future NZ material, came from>a well-connected family etc. Even in his early days, disturbingly lacking>in pace.>
<snip>
'batsman' in question was one Peter Visser, the Chris Martin or Mark>Robinson of his time, who came to the crease boasting a record of nine>successive scoreless innings dating back to 1983/84. It was the end of the>over, thus Visser was on strike for the new over and he was duly dismissed>for a duck, equalling the then-record ten successive scoreless innings held>by Jim Griffiths of Northamptonshire (which I think Robinson later broke).
He certainly did, managing at least 14 sucessive innings which gave the scorer nothing to except record the end. His subsequent move to Yorkshire was obviously part of a misguided attempt to strengthen the batting.
Andrew Dunford 28 April 2005 15:56:11 [ permanent link ]
"Mike Holmans" <mike@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:vgh17199fvfhbogg1p5uev4rv4d5d8v7f3@4ax.com...> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:49:54 +1200, "Andrew Dunford"> <adunford@artifax.net> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:> <snip>>
MD Toynbee: journeyman Central Districts batsman and some-time
off-spinner.> >Main claim to fame was the hat-trick he claimed for CD v ND in 1979/80,
first in New Zealand since a young bloke with impressive sideburns named
Hadlee had achieved the feat in 1971/72.>
This little summary is perhaps the most perplexing, then. Why was this> bloke captaining the YNZ side? From the other notes, it would seem to> me that Snedden or perhaps Rutherford would have been more likely> skippers, so what did Toynbee have going for him?
A fair question, since I can't remember him ever captaining his provincial team. I can only guess the captaincy was reward for Toynbee being - at 23 - the oldest player in the team.
Andrew Dunford 29 April 2005 09:48:04 [ permanent link ]
"Mike Holmans" <mike@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:vgh17199fvfhbogg1p5uev4rv4d5d8v7f3@4ax.com...> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:49:54 +1200, "Andrew Dunford"> <adunford@artifax.net> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:
<snip>
'batsman' in question was one Peter Visser, the Chris Martin or Mark> >Robinson of his time, who came to the crease boasting a record of nine> >successive scoreless innings dating back to 1983/84. It was the end of
over, thus Visser was on strike for the new over and he was duly
dismissed> >for a duck, equalling the then-record ten successive scoreless innings held> >by Jim Griffiths of Northamptonshire (which I think Robinson later broke).>
He certainly did, managing at least 14 sucessive innings which gave> the scorer nothing to except record the end. His subsequent move to> Yorkshire was obviously part of a misguided attempt to strengthen the> batting.
Of course, it should not be forgotten that Mark Robinson spent a season playing for Canterbury, during which he amassed eleven runs in just six innings. It was not unusual for overseas professionals to do some coaching in schools, so it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Robinson ran a batting coaching clinic at Christchurch Boys High School at which one of the eager participants was a gangly (ed. Ganguly?) 14-year-old named Chris Martin.
