Judging by the amount of posts on this topic I can assume that most of my fellow RSB'ers are as disapointed as I was at this tragic attempt at a boxing "reality show", even though I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a good reality show. The Contender, the one, the first, and the only episode I'll ever see did nothing more than reinforce my theory that these shows are all phony...
The scenes outside of the ring looked very scripted at best. Way too much emphasis on crowd reaction, and the sound was really wacky.
Too much slow motion action in the ring, and at times, sorry to say, I questioned wether what I was watching was an actual match, or a scripted fight sequence. I'm sure it was for real.
Another issue that I have is that if a boxer looses a fight in a typical match watched by the real boxing fans and broadcast on Espn2, HBO, ect. they get crit. by us, the fans. This is a totally different stage here. These guys are going to be picked apart by a much less knowledgable, and much less forgiving "audience"
Does anyone know if any of these "matches" actually count for anything??
As stated "If you win, your record records it & if you lost then your record gets the loss in it". So this is true boxing, showing training, announcement of fighters, press conference & manners during it, as well as the fight which was great including family members in the stands.
Burnett did a great job showing boxing as an honest, hard work, JOB!
QUESTION: Who was the black dude that was found in his car in front of his home with a gunsot to his head? This was months before the first fight, so I am guessing last summer.
SlimShady wrote:> I don't know, I thought the show was pretty good. Boxing has gone> through some really bad press the past 5 or 6 years. In addtion, there> doesn't seem to be one single boxer that captures the imagination of> the general public (not just boxing fans like us, but regular people> who like to watch sports.) De La Hoya is the closest, but he is on
down side of his career, and his last fight with Hopkins was
horrible.> (Let alone the fact he lost to Mosley twice.) I think that this show> will do a lot to enhance the sport of boxing.>
As for whether the fights are scripted, I think you can watch the> entire fight on the Contender web site. (I haven't tried to do this> yet, though)>
I think the show is going to be interesting and I hope this will> generate more interest in boxing (sort of like what the movie Rocky
in the late 70's and early 80's)>
JINGLES wrote:> > Judging by the amount of posts on this topic I can assume that most> > of my fellow RSB'ers are as disapointed as I was at this tragic> attempt> > at a boxing "reality show", even though I'm pretty sure there is
such thing as a good reality show. The Contender, the one, the> > first, and the only episode I'll ever see did nothing more than> > reinforce my theory that these shows are all phony...> >
The scenes outside of the ring looked very scripted at best. Way> too> > much emphasis on crowd reaction, and the sound was really wacky.> >
Too much slow motion action in the ring, and at times, sorry to> say,> > I questioned wether what I was watching was an actual match, or a> > scripted fight sequence. I'm sure it was for real.> >
Another issue that I have is that if a boxer looses a fight in a> > typical match watched by the real boxing fans and broadcast on
Espn2,> > HBO, ect. they get crit. by us, the fans. This is a totally> different> > stage here. These guys are going to be picked apart by a much less> > knowledgable, and much less forgiving "audience"> >
Does anyone know if any of these "matches" actually count for> > anything??> >
QUESTION: Who was the black dude that was found in his car in front>of his home with a gunsot to his head? This was months before the>first fight, so I am guessing last summer.
Najai Turpin. He shot himself on Valentine's Day morning while sitting in a car with his girlfriend. He left a young child (daughter I believe).
Thanks Mike! With no word of it on the opening show, and he was in it, I guess it happens after his loss? So it was during the filming.......YIKES!
I've chosen Jesse Brinkley
mwhaught wrote:> >QUESTION: Who was the black dude that was found in his car in front> >of his home with a gunsot to his head? This was months before the> >first fight, so I am guessing last summer.>
Najai Turpin. He shot himself on Valentine's Day morning while
sitting> in a car with his girlfriend. He left a young child (daughter I> believe).>
Robert Phillips 9 March 2005 17:22:12 [ permanent link ]
JINGLES wrote:> Judging by the amount of posts on this topic I can assume that most> of my fellow RSB'ers are as disapointed as I was at this tragic attempt> at a boxing "reality show", even though I'm pretty sure there is no> such thing as a good reality show. The Contender, the one, the> first, and the only episode I'll ever see did nothing more than> reinforce my theory that these shows are all phony...
I can't believe how much I'm not going to watch any of it. I'm actually excited about not watching it. It offends me that they would try to manufacture a "contender" the way 'American Idol' tries to manufacture "stars." (I'm rooting for either Constantine or Makaylah on 'Idol.') I don't mind pop stars being manufactured; I just take it for granted. I mean, freakin' Ashlee Simpson. But pop music isn't boxing. If ever there had been any possibility of me watching 'Contender,' even just sampling it, that chance ended when I heard the pompous, eye-rollingly overwrought, overdramatized narration in the commercials for it. If the commercials made me want to throw my remote through the screen, I can't imagine how bad the actual show must be. But I won't find out.
Robert Phillips 9 March 2005 17:40:59 [ permanent link ]
Robert Phillips wrote:
I can't believe how much I'm not going to watch any of it. I'm actually > excited about not watching it. It offends me that they would try to > manufacture a "contender" the way 'American Idol' tries to manufacture > "stars."
It occurs to me that somebody is likely to make some snarky comment about how boxing contenders are also "manufactured" these days, or how some of the sport's top stars (who will probably be named Roy Jones in those posts) are just manufactured glitz. So I should clarify that it's not so much the promotional angle of this show that bothers me. Sure, they're going to try to pass these losers off as real fighters and they'll push them along until their first real opponent, Peter Principle, kicks their asses. But knowing that they're going to try to turn them into celebrities, and cynically assuming that the guys themselves are mostly just using the show as their entry into television or movies (like 90% of reality-show contestants), is really what turns me off from this mess. Yeah, that and those horrid commercials. Bah, time to go to work.
It occurs to me that somebody is likely to make some snarky>comment about how boxing contenders are also "manufactured">these days, or how some of the sport's top stars (who will>probably be named Roy Jones in those posts) are just>manufactured glitz. So I should clarify...
The panic of someone who suddenly realizes that he has an exposed flank is an amusing thing to observe.
Losers may be a little strong to use here. I have no doubt that these are all real prizefighters, at some level or another. Remember, every city and town has their "Hometown Favorites". I somewhat know Peter Manfredo, and I find it very HARD to believe that he lost to the guy that he supposedly lost to. I just can't fathom that a highly decorated and skilled, potential world champion, could have lost to that jamoke... There are just to many holes in the story with this thing here.. Like Phillips said ijn the previous post.. They are trying to manufacture a "star" here. That doesn't always translate in to the best man winning, or the best fighter for that manner. I personally want to see this thing go the way that DLH's show went..Out the window. Boxing has enough problems to deal with, never mind new credability issues.
I can't believe how much I'm not going to watch any of it. I'm
actually> > excited about not watching it. It offends me that they would try
manufacture a "contender" the way 'American Idol' tries to
manufacture> > "stars.">
It occurs to me that somebody is likely to make some snarky comment> about how boxing contenders are also "manufactured" these days, or
some of the sport's top stars (who will probably be named Roy Jones
those posts) are just manufactured glitz. So I should clarify that
it's> not so much the promotional angle of this show that bothers me. Sure,> they're going to try to pass these losers off as real fighters and> they'll push them along until their first real opponent, Peter> Principle, kicks their asses. But knowing that they're going to try
turn them into celebrities, and cynically assuming that the guys> themselves are mostly just using the show as their entry into
television> or movies (like 90% of reality-show contestants), is really what turns> me off from this mess.
I don't think that this is what they're doing. The boxers on the shows aren't no-hopers, like in the DLH show - some of them have made it to ESPN under their own steam. Some of them have fought some real opponents already, and I don't think that they are very much like the typical Survivor contestant, looking for TV opportunities.
I thought that it was a very well-made show. I'm not a huge fan of the reality genre, but I can see that this show a lot better directed, edited and shot than the DLH show or the Ultimate Fighting one. Of course, this means that an observer really has no idea who should have actually won the fight.
By the way, you have simply terrible taste in singers.
Yeah, that and those horrid commercials. Bah, time to go to work.>
Robert Phillips 9 March 2005 23:27:36 [ permanent link ]
5016 wrote:
By the way, you have simply terrible taste in singers.
Oh no, I didn't say I think they (Makaylah and/or Constantine) are good singers, although obviously that's a fair conclusion to draw from me mentioning them. No, the reason I like them is because they both fly in the face of the standard American Idol contestant. They both have some personality and charisma, something glaringly missing from the typical winner and most of the finalists. I mean, if you watched with your eyes closed during the interview segments, could you *really* tell the diffence between, say, the Avila girl this year, the Clarkson girl who won a couple of years ago, that Kim Caldwell finalist from last year...? Of course not. They're all essentially interchangeable, the way Playboy playmates tend to be interchangeable large-breasted blondes. They're pretty, they smile a lot, they talk about accomplishing their dreams and having a wonderful time and having so much fun. And that's it. But at least the Makaylah girl has some zest, a personality, a loudmouth, something different about her. Simon is clearly correct in his assessment of her as a polarizing personality - love her or hate her. I like her personality, precisely because she *is* potentially obnoxious and not the cookie-cutter, say-the-right-thing, show-the-right-smile interchangeable model/actress type. My GF is a choral singer, and she loathes the girl's voice (and her personality). I defer to her about Makaylah's technique and delivery; like 99.9% of the viewers, I don't watch the show to assess their singing or to get an early look at future stars. I watch to see the freaks in the early rounds, and the mean comments, and the tears, and the trainwrecks (like that God-awful Janae!). *shrug* I just think she brings some spark to an otherwise dreary set of finalists. (A couple of interchangeable model/actress types; the Afro-girl the show is pushing hard the way they desperately pushed Kim Caldwell and Clay Aikens; the tall, skinny, angular gal...) That's why I agreed with Simon this week again when he said that throughout the competition, she seems to be aging before our very eyes, sanding down her fresh personality in favor of some "safe" torch-singer stylings. That's not what will make people continue to talk about her. As for Constantine, I like him for mostly the same reason - because he's not cookie-cutter cute like most of the other slanty-cap nightclub-dudes that are showing up in these final rounds. I like the Russian kid, too - Fedorov? - but they're not going to let him win with a name or a style like that. He doesn't have enough usable 'image' for the American Idol PR folks to run with. Scott, the chubby guy, is different enough for me to vote for, but he looks too trailer-trashy, and I can't root for anybody named Bo. So Constantine stays my choice from the guys. I'm tempted to say that I hope that the viewers put Janae out of our misery by finally voting her off - but I'm just mean-spirited enough that part of me wants her torment to continue, just for the laughs, and just to see the tears when she finally gets booted that much closer to actually winning. But if you want a trainwreck, she's it. I'm just afraid that she or her family will come away from this whole experience thinking that getting this far means she has an ounce of ability in her, when clearly she doesn't even have that.
Anyway, my taste in pop-music singers runs more to Ian Gillan (Deep Purple). That dude had some pipes.
"Robert Phillips" <rpie@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message news:L1DXd.110223$pc5.105524@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
It occurs to me that somebody is likely to make some snarky comment> about how boxing contenders are also "manufactured" these days, or how> some of the sport's top stars (who will probably be named Roy Jones in> those posts) are just manufactured glitz. So I should clarify that it's> not so much the promotional angle of this show that bothers me. Sure,> they're going to try to pass these losers off as real fighters
I dunno, I thought that first bout was a helluva fight. I don't claim to be a boxing expert, but they sure looked like they knew what they were doing.
Doc wrote:> "Robert Phillips" <rpie@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message> news:L1DXd.110223$pc5.105524@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...>
It occurs to me that somebody is likely to make some snarky comment> > about how boxing contenders are also "manufactured" these days, or
some of the sport's top stars (who will probably be named Roy Jones
those posts) are just manufactured glitz. So I should clarify that
it's> > not so much the promotional angle of this show that bothers me. Sure,> > they're going to try to pass these losers off as real fighters>
I dunno, I thought that first bout was a helluva fight. I don't claim
to be> a boxing expert, but they sure looked like they knew what they were doing.
Yup, just watched the second fight. They of course put the best scenes in, but it's still fun to watch. I can understand if a true boxing enthusiast might not want to watch though. But one of these guys almost fought Oscar De La Hoya, so these are real boxers.
No even related & doesn't blong here. The creator of Survivor & Apprentice & has Contender. This gives a good light othe sport of boxing that this sport needs badly.
American Idol is Simon under his name & his mother's maiden name as creator. My friend in England has no idea who he is but knows about Randy Jackson.
Robert Phillips wrote:> 5016 wrote:>
By the way, you have simply terrible taste in singers.>
Oh no, I didn't say I think they (Makaylah and/or Constantine) are
good> singers, although obviously that's a fair conclusion to draw from me> mentioning them.> No, the reason I like them is because they both fly in the face of
standard American Idol contestant. They both have some personality
charisma, something glaringly missing from the typical winner and
most> of the finalists. I mean, if you watched with your eyes closed during> the interview segments, could you *really* tell the diffence between,
say, the Avila girl this year, the Clarkson girl who won a couple of> years ago, that Kim Caldwell finalist from last year...? Of course
not.> They're all essentially interchangeable, the way Playboy playmates> tend to be interchangeable large-breasted blondes. They're pretty, they> smile a lot, they talk about accomplishing their dreams and having a> wonderful time and having so much fun. And that's it. But at least
Makaylah girl has some zest, a personality, a loudmouth, something> different about her. Simon is clearly correct in his assessment of
as a polarizing personality - love her or hate her. I like her> personality, precisely because she *is* potentially obnoxious and not
the cookie-cutter, say-the-right-thing, show-the-right-smile> interchangeable model/actress type. My GF is a choral singer, and
loathes the girl's voice (and her personality). I defer to her about
Makaylah's technique and delivery; like 99.9% of the viewers, I don't
watch the show to assess their singing or to get an early look at
future> stars. I watch to see the freaks in the early rounds, and the mean> comments, and the tears, and the trainwrecks (like that God-awful> Janae!). *shrug*> I just think she brings some spark to an otherwise dreary set of> finalists. (A couple of interchangeable model/actress types; the> Afro-girl the show is pushing hard the way they desperately pushed
Caldwell and Clay Aikens; the tall, skinny, angular gal...) That's
I agreed with Simon this week again when he said that throughout the> competition, she seems to be aging before our very eyes, sanding down
her fresh personality in favor of some "safe" torch-singer stylings.> That's not what will make people continue to talk about her.> As for Constantine, I like him for mostly the same reason - because
he's> not cookie-cutter cute like most of the other slanty-cap nightclub-dudes> that are showing up in these final rounds. I like the Russian kid,
- Fedorov? - but they're not going to let him win with a name or a
style> like that. He doesn't have enough usable 'image' for the American Idol> PR folks to run with. Scott, the chubby guy, is different enough for
to vote for, but he looks too trailer-trashy, and I can't root for> anybody named Bo. So Constantine stays my choice from the guys.> I'm tempted to say that I hope that the viewers put Janae out of our> misery by finally voting her off - but I'm just mean-spirited enough> that part of me wants her torment to continue, just for the laughs,
just to see the tears when she finally gets booted that much closer
actually winning. But if you want a trainwreck, she's it. I'm just> afraid that she or her family will come away from this whole
experience> thinking that getting this far means she has an ounce of ability in her,> when clearly she doesn't even have that.>
Anyway, my taste in pop-music singers runs more to Ian Gillan (Deep> Purple). That dude had some pipes.>
In article <1110372582.896517.306570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, theawesome1@despammed.com says...> Thanks Mike! With no word of it on the opening show, and he was in it,> I guess it happens after his loss? So it was during the> filming.......YIKES!
The suicide was after "principal filming".
The show is structured such that they whittle it down to two fighters, who then cool their heels while the show airs, and the finale is a live fight in vegas.
So they had whittled down to two fighters before the suicide, and clearly, Turpin wasn't one of those two.
There doesn't seem to be a whole lot to distinguish this show from "The next great contender" Fighters do a physical competition to determine who gets to pick the fight that week. They fight. There's a shitload of filler about their hopes and dreams and family, and the main event is disappointingly edited. in DLH's show, there were no teams, it was individual competition, and the loser had to fight. In the contender, the winning team gets to pick the matchup. And the quality of fighters is clearly higher in the Contender.
A five round fight is 20 minutes. it would have been really easy to do a competition, too much filler, and actually show the fight. One can see melodrama on any reality show. They aren't going to win fans to the show or the sport by overdosing on the soap operas each of the guys has. What could set the show apart and win fans to boxing is to just show the whole competition.
Robert Phillips 13 March 2005 19:57:53 [ permanent link ]
theawesome1@despammed.com wrote:> No even related & doesn't blong here. The creator of Survivor &> Apprentice & has Contender. This gives a good light othe sport of> boxing that this sport needs badly.
None of this has anything to do with my post. ;) As for it being off-topic, of course it was. But RSB has always been fairly self-regulating, and we've forgiven you over the years for all of your non-boxing posts.
Robert Phillips 28 March 2005 06:57:56 [ permanent link ]
lowepg@gmail.com wrote:> Brutal- and they are setting up a trust fund for this guys illegitimate> daughter....
I'm not watching the show, so I'm responding only to the above. But I have no problem with them setting up some kind of trust fund. It's not the girl's fault any of this happened, and it's just bad television if she's even involved in any way onscreen. But the trust fund, hey, as cliched as it sounds, some good can come out of it. No problems there.
They made him out to be some "hero" who was hit with tragedy.
Again, going strictly by the above, that wouldn't surprise me.
In <UoK1e.6889$Pc.2893@tornado.tampabay.rr.com> Robert Phillips wrote:> lowepg@gmail.com wrote:>> Brutal- and they are setting up a trust fund for this guys >> illegitimate daughter....>
I'm not watching the show, so I'm responding only to the above. But I > have no problem with them setting up some kind of trust fund. It's > not the girl's fault any of this happened, and it's just bad > television if she's even involved in any way onscreen. But the trust > fund, hey, as cliched as it sounds, some good can come out of it. No > problems there.>
They made him out to be some "hero" who was hit with tragedy. >
Again, going strictly by the above, that wouldn't surprise me.
The Sanity Cruzer 28 March 2005 07:37:31 [ permanent link ]
<lowepg@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1111972845.244362.100500@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...> Brutal- and they are setting up a trust fund for this guys illegitimate> daughter....>
They made him out to be some "hero" who was hit with tragedy. So,> during the commerical and did a quick web search on this kid. Heroic> figure? Wrong. He was a loser. Shot himself with an illegal gun.>
That was the first and last episode of Contender I'll be watching...
And this is the first and last post of yours I'll be reading.
