Can anyone help I have a Raymarine ST60 Multi and want to get NMEA data (Wind & Depth) into the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. If the laptop is not connected to anything at all (including power supplies) this works fine. If I connect it to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type laptop power supply, or an inverter using the normal laptop power lead I get nothing. Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS and AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input. I have been told I need to use an optocoupler (optical isolator) and have bought a 4N25 chip. Can anyone suggest what the problem is and / or give me a circuit diagram of how to use this optocoupler
The ST60 Multi has SeaTalk in and NMEA In and Out. As I said, I can read it fine providing nothing else is connected to the Laptop
Phil "krj" <joyner_k@bellsouth.net> wrote in message newsduie.1480$Uy2.643@bignews4.bellsouth.net...> Phil,> What you need is a Seatalk to NMEA converter. The Raymarine ST60 output is > seatalk NOT NMEA. If you use the Raymarine navigation software package > then it will decode the seatalk data stream from the ST60 directly without > the converter.> krj.>
Phil Stanton wrote:>> Can anyone help>> I have a Raymarine ST60 Multi and want to get NMEA data (Wind & Depth) >> into the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. If the laptop is not connected >> to anything at all (including power supplies) this works fine. If I >> connect it to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type laptop power >> supply, or an inverter using the normal laptop power lead I get nothing.>> Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS and >> AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input.>> I have been told I need to use an optocoupler (optical isolator) and have >> bought a 4N25 chip.>> Can anyone suggest what the problem is and / or give me a circuit diagram >> of how to use this optocoupler>>
Phil Stanton wrote:> Can anyone help> I have a Raymarine ST60 Multi and want to get NMEA data (Wind &> Depth) into the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. If the laptop is not> connected to anything at all (including power supplies) this works> fine. If I connect it to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type> laptop power supply, or an inverter using the normal laptop power> lead I get nothing.> Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS> and AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input.> I have been told I need to use an optocoupler (optical isolator) and> have bought a 4N25 chip.> Can anyone suggest what the problem is and / or give me a circuit> diagram of how to use this optocoupler>
many thanks>
Phil
You don't say whether you have grounded the nmea output to pin 5, but I have found that if you don't do this you get no signal, even when pins 2 &3 are receiving/transmitting. On really old laptpos/PC's we used to also short out pins 4 & 6, plus 7 & 8, to prevent the laptop thinking it was connected to a modem with buffering protocol, no longer necessary.
Thanks for that, Dennis. I have not tried to output to the ST60 Multi - one thing at a time. The + input from the Multi is connected to pin 2 and the - input from the Multi is connected to pin 5. I will try shorting out the pins you suggest
Phil
"Dennis Pogson" <dennis_pogson@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:9gDie.14608$he1.9836@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...> Phil Stanton wrote:>> Can anyone help>> I have a Raymarine ST60 Multi and want to get NMEA data (Wind &>> Depth) into the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. If the laptop is not>> connected to anything at all (including power supplies) this works>> fine. If I connect it to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type>> laptop power supply, or an inverter using the normal laptop power>> lead I get nothing.>> Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS>> and AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input.>> I have been told I need to use an optocoupler (optical isolator) and>> have bought a 4N25 chip.>> Can anyone suggest what the problem is and / or give me a circuit>> diagram of how to use this optocoupler>>
many thanks>>
Phil>
You don't say whether you have grounded the nmea output to pin 5, but I > have> found that if you don't do this you get no signal, even when pins 2 &3 are> receiving/transmitting. On really old laptpos/PC's we used to also short > out> pins 4 & 6, plus 7 & 8, to prevent the laptop thinking it was connected to > a> modem with buffering protocol, no longer necessary.>
Phil Stanton wrote:> Can anyone help> I have a Raymarine ST60 Multi and want to get NMEA data (Wind & Depth) into > the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. If the laptop is not connected to > anything at all (including power supplies) this works fine. If I connect it > to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type laptop power supply, or an > inverter using the normal laptop power lead I get nothing.> Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS and > AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input.> I have been told I need to use an optocoupler (optical isolator) and have > bought a 4N25 chip.> Can anyone suggest what the problem is and / or give me a circuit diagram of > how to use this optocoupler>
many thanks>
Phil >
Classic combination of mixing (incompatible) RS-232 and RS-422 signals.
If you were trying to do this the other way around (RS-232 to RS-422) you could try connecting the RS-232 "Ground" to the ST60's "-" input, as the ST60 has isolated inputs and no ground loop would be created.
In the case of ST60 output to RS232 input i'm not so sure you can do this; you may end up with damaged hardware if you tried connecting the RS-232 "ground" level to the ST60's "-" output did you. However, as you are experiencing, connecting just the "A" output doesn't work.
You could risk trying to tie the ST60's "-" output to the RS-232 ground...
The other alternative, if you are not an electrical engineer and unable to wire up the optocoupler, I suggest you get a RS-422 to RS-232 converter, for instance as present in the various NMEA multiplexers.
Phil Stanton wrote:> Thanks for that, Dennis.> I have not tried to output to the ST60 Multi - one thing at a time. The + > input from the Multi is connected to pin 2 and the - input from the Multi is > connected to pin 5.> I will try shorting out the pins you suggest>
Phil
Aha, this information (- connected to pin 5) combined with the fact that if the laptop's internal zero is no longer floating compared to the boat zero (= connect charger) means you are introducing a ground loop.
Face the facts, you need an optocoupler. If you don't know how to build an appropriate circuit, get a RS-422 input port or an NMEA Multiplexer.
Looks as if I will have to pay through the nose to get an optocoupler, but have bitten the bullet and ordered one. Thanks for everyone's input
Phil "Kees Verruijt" <kees@scanner391.net> wrote in message news:428b29f2$0$64748$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...> Phil Stanton wrote:>> Can anyone help>> I have a Raymarine ST60 Multi and want to get NMEA data (Wind & Depth) >> into the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. If the laptop is not connected >> to anything at all (including power supplies) this works fine. If I >> connect it to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type laptop power >> supply, or an inverter using the normal laptop power lead I get nothing.>> Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS and >> AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input.>> I have been told I need to use an optocoupler (optical isolator) and have >> bought a 4N25 chip.>> Can anyone suggest what the problem is and / or give me a circuit diagram >> of how to use this optocoupler>>
many thanks>>
Phil>
Classic combination of mixing (incompatible) RS-232 and RS-422 signals.>
If you were trying to do this the other way around (RS-232 to RS-422) you > could try connecting the RS-232 "Ground" to the ST60's "-" input, as the > ST60 has isolated inputs and no ground loop would be created.>
In the case of ST60 output to RS232 input i'm not so sure you can do this; > you may end up with damaged hardware if you tried connecting the RS-232 > "ground" level to the ST60's "-" output did you. However, as you are > experiencing, connecting just the "A" output doesn't work.>
You could risk trying to tie the ST60's "-" output to the RS-232 ground...>
The other alternative, if you are not an electrical engineer and unable to > wire up the optocoupler, I suggest you get a RS-422 to RS-232 converter, > for instance as present in the various NMEA multiplexers.>
Sorry to post this again, but I have failed to resolve the problem, and have more clues.
I have a Raymarine ST60 Multi and want to get NMEA data (Wind & Depth) into the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. If the laptop is not connected to anything at all (including power supplies) this works fine. If I connect it to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type laptop power supply, or an inverter using the normal laptop power lead I get nothing. Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS and AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input.
Kees suggested using an optocoupler which I bought (not cheap) from Active research which looked as if it should do the job. They are boat people and supplied me with a 2 way adapter cable for NMEA In and out to serial plug. Just occasionally with the computer not connected to either external power supplies or to any other equipment a got a little garbled NMEA through.
I have replicated everything on my son's laptop, a totally different make so I think we can eliminate the computers. I can connect the laptop through a cigarette type laptop power supply to an external car battery and again no problem. If I connect the negative of this battery to the negative of the ship's battery I immediately loose the signal. If, with the computer isolated and the NEMA going in correctly via the serial port I connect the optocoupler input across the NEMA out terminals I again loose the signal. Its as if there isn't enough power in the NEMA signal to power anything.
2 other things. If I put a GPS signal into the serial port there are no problems even when the laptop is connected to the ships power supply again confirming that the laptops seem OK and that HyperTerminal is configured correctly. Along with the equipment mentioned above, I also have a Raymarine S1G course computer.
Stewart Vane-Tempest 20 May 2005 20:29:27 [ permanent link ]
Phil,
Although my instruments are ST50, I am using the Raymarine Multiplexer which has NMEA to Seatalk and also a proper RS232 interface.
GPS (nmea), instruments (seatalk) all show up on my notebook as well as the GPS position data on my DSC radio. GPS data is also transmitted across the multiplexor to the autohelm (but I believe the GPS position resolution is 2 decimal places instead of 3 on the seatalk side of things). I used the free Seaclear software to prove that all data is being received on the PC.
Regards,
Stewart "Phil Stanton" <philnoxx@xxstantonfamily.co.uk> wrote in message news:428e03d7$0$580$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...> Sorry to post this again, but I have failed to resolve the problem, and > have more clues.>
I have a Raymarine ST60 Multi and want to get NMEA data (Wind & Depth) > into the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. If the laptop is not connected to> anything at all (including power supplies) this works fine. If I connect > it> to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type laptop power supply, or an> inverter using the normal laptop power lead I get nothing.> Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS and> AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input.>
Kees suggested using an optocoupler which I bought (not cheap) from Active > research which looked as if it should do the job. They are boat people and > supplied me with a 2 way adapter cable for NMEA In and out to serial plug. > Just occasionally with the computer not connected to either external power > supplies or to any other equipment a got a little garbled NMEA through.>
I have replicated everything on my son's laptop, a totally different make > so I think we can eliminate the computers. I can connect the laptop > through a cigarette type laptop power supply to an external car battery > and again no problem. If I connect the negative of this battery to the > negative of the ship's battery I immediately loose the signal.> If, with the computer isolated and the NEMA going in correctly via the > serial port I connect the optocoupler input across the NEMA out terminals > I again loose the signal. Its as if there isn't enough power in the NEMA > signal to power anything.>
2 other things. If I put a GPS signal into the serial port there are no > problems even when the laptop is connected to the ships power supply again > confirming that the laptops seem OK and that HyperTerminal is configured > correctly.> Along with the equipment mentioned above, I also have a Raymarine S1G > course computer.>
Dumb question I suppose, but since it is a laptop, why not leave it floating? (electrically)
"Phil Stanton" <philnoxx@xxstantonfamily.co.uk> wrote in message news:428e03d7$0$580$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...> Sorry to post this again, but I have failed to resolve the problem, and have> more clues.>
I have a Raymarine ST60 Multi and want to get NMEA data (Wind & Depth)
into> the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. If the laptop is not connected to> anything at all (including power supplies) this works fine. If I connect
to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type laptop power supply, or an> inverter using the normal laptop power lead I get nothing.> Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS and> AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input.>
Kees suggested using an optocoupler which I bought (not cheap) from Active> research which looked as if it should do the job. They are boat people and> supplied me with a 2 way adapter cable for NMEA In and out to serial plug.> Just occasionally with the computer not connected to either external power> supplies or to any other equipment a got a little garbled NMEA through.>
I have replicated everything on my son's laptop, a totally different make
I think we can eliminate the computers. I can connect the laptop through a> cigarette type laptop power supply to an external car battery and again no> problem. If I connect the negative of this battery to the negative of the> ship's battery I immediately loose the signal.> If, with the computer isolated and the NEMA going in correctly via the> serial port I connect the optocoupler input across the NEMA out terminals
again loose the signal. Its as if there isn't enough power in the NEMA> signal to power anything.>
2 other things. If I put a GPS signal into the serial port there are no> problems even when the laptop is connected to the ships power supply again> confirming that the laptops seem OK and that HyperTerminal is configured> correctly.> Along with the equipment mentioned above, I also have a Raymarine S1G
Because the laptop's battery only lasts a bare hour and I also need information into a second port - GPS info from ships GPS which, needless to say is wired into the ships battery system and also AIS info which also is powered from the battery.
Phil
"Steve Thomas" <sthoma20_lowspam_@sympatico.ca> wrote in message newsCIje.13124$dS3.1339150@news20.bellglobal.com...> Dumb question I suppose, but since it is a laptop, why not leave it> floating?> (electrically)>
"Phil Stanton" <philnoxx@xxstantonfamily.co.uk> wrote in message> news:428e03d7$0$580$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...>> Sorry to post this again, but I have failed to resolve the problem, and> have>> more clues.>>
I have a Raymarine ST60 Multi and want to get NMEA data (Wind & Depth)> into>> the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. If the laptop is not connected to>> anything at all (including power supplies) this works fine. If I connect> it>> to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type laptop power supply, or an>> inverter using the normal laptop power lead I get nothing.>> Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS and>> AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input.>>
Kees suggested using an optocoupler which I bought (not cheap) from >> Active>> research which looked as if it should do the job. They are boat people >> and>> supplied me with a 2 way adapter cable for NMEA In and out to serial >> plug.>> Just occasionally with the computer not connected to either external >> power>> supplies or to any other equipment a got a little garbled NMEA through.>>
I have replicated everything on my son's laptop, a totally different make> so>> I think we can eliminate the computers. I can connect the laptop through >> a>> cigarette type laptop power supply to an external car battery and again >> no>> problem. If I connect the negative of this battery to the negative of the>> ship's battery I immediately loose the signal.>> If, with the computer isolated and the NEMA going in correctly via the>> serial port I connect the optocoupler input across the NEMA out terminals> I>> again loose the signal. Its as if there isn't enough power in the NEMA>> signal to power anything.>>
2 other things. If I put a GPS signal into the serial port there are no>> problems even when the laptop is connected to the ships power supply >> again>> confirming that the laptops seem OK and that HyperTerminal is configured>> correctly.>> Along with the equipment mentioned above, I also have a Raymarine S1G> course>> computer.>>
Phil Stanton wrote:> I can connect the laptop through a > cigarette type laptop power supply to an external car battery and again no > problem. If I connect the negative of this battery to the negative of the > ship's battery I immediately loose the signal.
Sorry, but this still points to ground loops being the problem. The optocoupler was supposed to solve this...
If, with the computer isolated and the NEMA going in correctly via the > serial port I connect the optocoupler input across the NEMA out terminals I > again loose the signal. Its as if there isn't enough power in the NEMA > signal to power anything.
I have the following equipment which may be relevant. Raymarine S2G course computer controlled by a ST6001, ST60 Tridata, ST60 Wind and ST60 Multi.
I want to get NMEA data (Wind & Depth) into the 9 pin serial port on my laptop. For investigative purposes I am using Windows XP home edition and HyperTerminal to look at what is coming in, although I use Chartwork's Winchart NautiQ for navigation.
If the laptop is not connected to anything at all (including power supplies) I get valid NMEA messages from the NMEA Out from the Multi. If I connect the laptop to the boats 12v supply via a cigarette type laptop power supply, or an inverter using the normal laptop power lead I get nothing.
Equally if I connect the USB port via a Serial to USB lead to the GPS and AIS input I immediately loose the NMEA input.
If, with the computer isolated and the NEMA going in correctly via the serial port I connect the optocoupler input across the NEMA out terminals I again loose the signal. It is as if there isn't enough power in the NEMA signal to power anything.
I have replicated everything on my son's laptop, a totally different make so I think we can eliminate the computers. I can connect the laptop through a cigarette type laptop power supply to an external car battery and again no problem.
If I connect the negative of this spare battery to the negative of the ship's battery I immediately loose the signal.
2 other things. If I put a GPS signal into the serial port there are no problems even when the laptop is connected to the ship's power supply again confirming that the laptops seem OK and that HyperTerminal is configured correctly.
Here are various voltages that may give you some clues. Obviously measures with an electronic multi meter as I do not have a 'scope. Negative of meter connected to Negative of boat
NMEA output from Multi with nothing connected to it.
NMEA Out Negative to Ships Negative Fluctuating between -0.3 & 0.0v
NMEA Out Positive to Ships Negative 11.7v
NMEA Out Positive to NMEA Out Negative Fluctuating between 5.5 & 0v (Normal NMEA output)
Laptop connected to ships 12v supply though car type power supply. Nothing else connected.
Voltages on RS232 9 pin plug
Pin 5 to Ships Negative 0.18v
Pin 2 to Ships Negative 0.24v
Pin 2 to Pin 5 .05v
NMEA Out plugged into Laptop Serial Port, laptop on internal batteries. No other connections to laptop
NMEA Out Negative to Ships Negative Fluctuating between 8.8 & 4.7
NMEA Out Positive to Ships Negative 11.9v
NMEA Out Positive to NMEA Out Negative Fluctuating between 3.3 & 0v (NMEA received correctly)
NMEA Out plugged into Laptop Serial Port. Laptop connected to ships 12v supply though car type power supply
NMEA Out Negative to Ships Negative 0.2v
NMEA Out Positive to Ships Negative 11.6v
NMEA Out Positive to NMEA Out Negative 11.4v (No NMEA input detected)
NMEA From GPS plugged into Laptop Serial Port, laptop connected to ships 12v supply though car type power supply
NMEA Out Negative to Ships Negative 0.2v
NMEA Out Positive to Ships Negative Fluctuating between -3.0 & +0.2
NMEA Out Positive to NMEA Out Negative Fluctuating between -3.3 & +0.8 (GPS messages received correctly)
So there we are, getting NMEA out, but not in
Phil
"Arnold" <arnoldzondervan@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1117459824.002171.47210@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...> hey people,>
a milestone for me, and possible, others:> raytheon answerd my mail, and said that an other instrument with native> NMEA support does recognise the sentences/data properly and that I> should try to connect the PC through that device. so the solution would> be, link a NMEA repeater to the NMEA OUT port and link the PC to that> thing.>
as I just figured out, my Navtex receiver (furuno Nx-300) will, most> likely, do just that, with a semi-official rs-232 connection to it.> (semi, couse you have to put your own rs-232 plug on to the correct> wires).> I'm gonna keep you guys informed on later developments.>
The so called NEMA output from a Raymarine Multi should be floating, but the positive terminal is at 12v; something to do with being able to use the NMEA out terminals for an alarm. This as it were "shorts out" the RS232 on the laptop
Now the bad news
You need a RayMarine PC/SeaTalk.NMEA Interface (E85001). Cost about £100. Yet another RayMarine Con, but it solved the problem
Phil
"Arnold" <arnoldzondervan@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1117531926.492119.160050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...> hey Phil,>
the data you gave me is valueble, but I am missing one very important> thing (what the problem might be). what is the voltage of your> powersupply? (test by voltage meter, and the reading of the St60> multi), if that lies arround the 11 volts (or 11.9 as in the data you> wrote), it might be to low, and the batteries sort of dead. A 12V> powersupply should be somewhere arround 13.x V when charged. I have 4x> 105ah 12v battieries installed, and when my voltage drops below 12.5> volt, I desperatley need charging.>
if this is the case, try linking the instruments on a other battery> (just for the test, don't make it expensive, use a spare one or> something), and hook up your laptop to that thing too. If my thoughts> are correct, this should work.>
(a lack of power supply affects your data, so when an other device is> linked, the voltage drops a bit further and the data is crippled/not> send) an other problem could be te capasity of the powersupply, if this> is to little, the voltage drops even further.>
as for my own problem, it is still at the same point, wich is:> "theoreticly solved". I'll need to find time, somewhere in the next 1.5> week.>
succes to you,> Arnold>
PS:> where are you from?, I am from the netherlands.>
The so called NEMA output from a Raymarine Multi should be floating, but the > positive terminal is at 12v; something to do with being able to use the NMEA > out terminals for an alarm. This as it were "shorts out" the RS232 on the > laptop>
Now the bad news>
You need a RayMarine PC/SeaTalk.NMEA Interface (E85001). Cost about £100. > Yet another RayMarine Con, but it solved the problem>
Phil>
I don't get it, didn't you say earlier you already got a converter that would convert the RS-422 NMEA output to RS-232?
"Quee Queg" <kees@knokkeheist.org> wrote in message news:429ccb3a$0$23429$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...> Phil Stanton wrote:> > First the good news> >
Cracked it> >
The so called NEMA output from a Raymarine Multi should be floating, but
positive terminal is at 12v; something to do with being able to use the
NMEA> > out terminals for an alarm. This as it were "shorts out" the RS232 on
laptop> >
Now the bad news> >
You need a RayMarine PC/SeaTalk.NMEA Interface (E85001). Cost about
£100.> > Yet another RayMarine Con, but it solved the problem> >
Phil> >
I don't get it, didn't you say earlier you already got a converter that> would convert the RS-422 NMEA output to RS-232?
That would still be a problem, since a real RS-422 input has two signal lines that should be eachother's opposite in level. With the Raymarine configuration this will not work. Only when the converter has an opto-coupler input, as specified in the NMEA standard, it would have worked.
I was under the misapprehension that when the RayMarine ST60 Multi has 2 pairs of terminals marked MNEA In and NMEA Out, that's what you got. Yes I got so frustrated that I bought their interface as it was costing me a fortune in time trying to get some sense. The technical department at Raymarine didn't come up with the solution although it must be pretty common problem.
Mind the are not very helpful when it comes to their echo sounders either. I have a lifting keel boat and want to set the offset so that the echo sounder reads zero with the keel down and just scraping the bottom. Trouble is when I half lift the keel and go into shallower water I want the echo sounder to show a negative amount. Of course it just continues to show zero. Yes - I know I can set it below water line etc, but it's nice to know if the echo sounder says 1.5m that is actually the "spare" water kicking around under you, and you don't have to do a calculation. Most of the boats I sail on are calibrated this way, so its what you see is what you get none of this business that on John's boat you deduct 1.4 from the depth shown, whilst on Pets boat deduct 1.8. (We English East Coast sailors are grateful to have 0.3m under us)
"Meindert Sprang" <mhsprang@NOcustomSPAMware.nl> wrote in message news:119pk73sshhmc60@corp.supernews.com...> "Quee Queg" <kees@knokkeheist.org> wrote in message> news:429ccb3a$0$23429$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...>> Phil Stanton wrote:>> > First the good news>> >
Cracked it>> >
The so called NEMA output from a Raymarine Multi should be floating, >> > but> the>> > positive terminal is at 12v; something to do with being able to use the> NMEA>> > out terminals for an alarm. This as it were "shorts out" the RS232 on> the>> > laptop>> >
Now the bad news>> >
You need a RayMarine PC/SeaTalk.NMEA Interface (E85001). Cost about> £100.>> > Yet another RayMarine Con, but it solved the problem>> >
Phil>> >
I don't get it, didn't you say earlier you already got a converter that>> would convert the RS-422 NMEA output to RS-232?>
That would still be a problem, since a real RS-422 input has two signal> lines that should be eachother's opposite in level. With the Raymarine> configuration this will not work. Only when the converter has an> opto-coupler input, as specified in the NMEA standard, it would have > worked.>
