"Harry Krause" <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:38coseF5nbm0cU2@individual.net...> Save A Jew, Save Yourself!>
Sixty-five million Evangelicals can't be wrong.>
By Mark Ames>
IF YOU'RE A JEW, put the paper down now, run to your door and lock it.> If some beaming Ned Flanders type with a big helpful smile on his face> rings your doorbell and says, "Is there a Jew in this house I can hug?"> advise him to vacate the premises immediately, or you will sic upon him> Baal, your starving Rhodesian Ridgeback.>
Whatever you do, do not invite the Christian Zionist into your house.> Because as much as he claims to love you and all of your fellow> tribesmen, it's a different kind of love than you might expect. More> like the love that the Manson Family had for Sharon Tate and her party> guests.>
Ned and about 65 million other fellow American Evangelical cultists love> Jews for one simple reason: They hope to bundle every [Jew] up,> air-freight them to the West Bank and East Jerusalem (once those areas> have been cleansed of Muslims), and use the Jews as bait to bring upon> the Rapture, as kindling in the Apocalypse, the final battle that will> bring Jesus back to Earth. None of this can happen until every last Jew> is penned into the occupied territories-and the Jews won't get there> unless the far-right runs Israel and America. Currently 65 million> American cultists are using everything in their power, from prayer to> politics, to make this Helter Skelter scenario come true.>
Under this Evangelical "end of days" scenario, there's some good news> and some bad news, depending on which cult you belong to.>
First, the good news: The Rapture be bery-bery-good to Evangelical> Christians. When that day arrives, they all get sucked up to heaven-> body, clothes, mobile phones and all. Here is a stunning description of> the Rapture in Evangelical cult leader Michael D. Evans' new bestseller,> The American Prophecies (Warner Faith Books, $18.95):>
[I]magine for a moment sixty-five million Americans vanishing in the> twinkling of an eye-people flying planes, driving cars, steering ships,> driving trains and subways, manning nuclear power stations and nuclear> silos, navigating submarines filled with nuclear missiles, and so on.> Realize, also, if that happened today, it would take our president.]>
If you sense that Evans actually enjoys the thought of nuclear chaos for> those of us left behind, you're absolutely right. Here is his "Dear> Santa" holocaust wish-list, in gradated order: "Yes, this is my hope.> Not that the terrorists get us, nor even that we side with Israel in the> final battle (though I would greatly prefer that to option one!), but> that God gets us—all of us.">
Note that Evans, like all Evangelicals, wouldn't mind it if terrorists> got us—it's just that he prefers that God get us first. All of us.>
Nuclear weapons and President George W. Bush—and Jews—are the only> earthly things that Evans and his fellow Evangelical cultists genuinely> love. The nukes above all. More than once Evans quotes the lines in> Zechariah that Evangelicals believe prophesy a nuclear holocaust: "Their> flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet/Their eyes shall> dissolve in their sockets/And their tongues shall dissolve in their> mouths." (Zechariah 14:12)>
A few years after the Rapture comes the Apocalypse. This is the bad-news> part of the Evangelical equation, for some people anyway—the part of the> buddy flick where the one buddy says to the other, "Sorry friend, it was> either you or me.">
The funny thing about The American Prophecies is that while Evans quotes> extensively from Zechariah, he leaves out the one passage that every> Evangelical secretly prays for:>
And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two> parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left> therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine> them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried.> (Zechariah 13:8, 9)>
In other words, two-thirds of the world's Jews, now crammed into the> dusty West Bank, go to the woodchipper, and the surviving third (or> perhaps as few as 144,000, depending on how you read your Bible) gets> forcibly converted to Evangelical Christianity. Number nine, number nine…>
This is why Jews should beware. Michael Evans and the 23 percent of the> American population he represents need a Greater Israel in order to get> sucked up into God's DustBuster. But to get to the "end of days," they> need the Jews' cooperation. Which is probably why Evans left this part> of the script out of his book. Today, Evangelicals' strategy is> something like this: "Hey, maybe we've been scaring the Jews away all> these years, with pogroms and quotas and stuff. Maybe if we act all> nice, they'll come out from under the bed and go to Judea and Samara.> Heeeeere Jew-ie Jew-ie. Nice Jewie!"....>
Doug Kanter 27 February 2005 17:05:51 [ permanent link ]
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:oQbUd.6586$MY6.4057@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...> Get your med's adjusted.
He's just pointing out what's walking among us, disguised as normal, Billy boy. Question: Can you call people wackos if they represent more than "X" percent of the population?
Harry Krause 27 February 2005 17:10:02 [ permanent link ]
Doug Kanter wrote:> "Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:oQbUd.6586$MY6.4057@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
Get your med's adjusted.>
He's just pointing out what's walking among us, disguised as normal, Billy > boy. Question: Can you call people wackos if they represent more than "X" > percent of the population? >
Billyboy either doesn't want to admit or won't recognize the fact that tens of millions of people on his side of the political fence believe that kind of religious crapola, and among their number is one George W. Bush.
Yeah. 65 million people. You better get a reality check also.
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message newsAjUd.10437$6p7.3805@news01.roc.ny...> "Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message> news:oQbUd.6586$MY6.4057@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...> > Get your med's adjusted.>
He's just pointing out what's walking among us, disguised as normal, Billy> boy. Question: Can you call people wackos if they represent more than "X"> percent of the population?>
Harrythenut does not want to admit he lost the election, and it is everyone else in the country that is wrong.
"Harry Krause" <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:38dv5gF5jucpvU1@individual.net...> Doug Kanter wrote:> > "Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message> > news:oQbUd.6586$MY6.4057@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...> >
Get your med's adjusted.> >
He's just pointing out what's walking among us, disguised as normal,
Billy> > boy. Question: Can you call people wackos if they represent more than "X"> > percent of the population?> >
Billyboy either doesn't want to admit or won't recognize the fact that> tens of millions of people on his side of the political fence believe> that kind of religious crapola, and among their number is one George W.> Bush.>
Doug Kanter 28 February 2005 07:10:39 [ permanent link ]
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:j7pUd.7079$873.6524@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...> Harrythenut does not want to admit he lost the election, and it is > everyone> else in the country that is wrong.
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions of loonies walking around who actually believe this rapture nonsense, and are willing to manipulate politics here and overseas to fit their hallucinations?
Calif Bill wrote:> Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions of> loonies walking around who actually believe the President Bush is not the> President, as they did not vote for him?
Back in the '90s there were millions of people who insisted that Clinton was not *their* President. That is fact.
I have not heard anybody say that Bush isn't their President... is this the new buzzword from hate-spew radio?
Harry Krause 28 February 2005 16:29:41 [ permanent link ]
DSK wrote:> Calif Bill wrote:>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions of>> loonies walking around who actually believe the President Bush is not the>> President, as they did not vote for him?>
Back in the '90s there were millions of people who insisted that Clinton > was not *their* President. That is fact.>
I have not heard anybody say that Bush isn't their President... is this > the new buzzword from hate-spew radio?>
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:27:17 -0500, DSK <dsk@dontbotherme.com> wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:>> Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions of>> loonies walking around who actually believe the President Bush is not the>> President, as they did not vote for him?>
Back in the '90s there were millions of people who insisted that Clinton >was not *their* President. That is fact.>
I have not heard anybody say that Bush isn't their President... is this >the new buzzword from hate-spew radio?>
DSK
There 've been some of the less enlightened on this NG who have, in fact, stated just that! John H
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!
"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:XkMUd.389$L17.294@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message> news:L1EUd.10809$tC7.10262@news02.roc.ny...>>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>> news:JMxUd.7459$MY6.1673@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>> > newsYvUd.10783$i22.2978@news02.roc.ny...>> >> "Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>> >> news:j7pUd.7079$873.6524@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>> >> > Harrythenut does not want to admit he lost the election, and it is>> >> > everyone>> >> > else in the country that is wrong.>> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions of>> > loonies>> >> walking around who actually believe this rapture nonsense, and are>> >> willing>> >> to manipulate politics here and overseas to fit their hallucinations?>> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions of>> > loonies walking around who actually believe the President Bush is not> the>> > President, as they did not vote for him? That there are millions of>> > loonies>> > walking around who actually believe the Sen. Kerry would be competant?>> >
That has nothing to do with the original subject of this thread.>>
Makes as much sense as you stating there are 65 mm loonies waiting the> rapture.>
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:dpMUd.34$P15.12@news01.roc.ny...>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message> news:XkMUd.389$L17.294@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message> > news:L1EUd.10809$tC7.10262@news02.roc.ny...> >>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message> >> news:JMxUd.7459$MY6.1673@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...> >> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message> >> > newsYvUd.10783$i22.2978@news02.roc.ny...> >> >> "Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message> >> >> news:j7pUd.7079$873.6524@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...> >> >> > Harrythenut does not want to admit he lost the election, and it is> >> >> > everyone> >> >> > else in the country that is wrong.> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions of> >> > loonies> >> >> walking around who actually believe this rapture nonsense, and are> >> >> willing> >> >> to manipulate politics here and overseas to fit their
hallucinations?> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions of> >> > loonies walking around who actually believe the President Bush is not> > the> >> > President, as they did not vote for him? That there are millions of> >> > loonies> >> > walking around who actually believe the Sen. Kerry would be
competant?> >> >
That has nothing to do with the original subject of this thread.> >>
Makes as much sense as you stating there are 65 mm loonies waiting the> > rapture.> >
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 14:52:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message >news:tXRUd.731$L17.29@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>> news:dpMUd.34$P15.12@news01.roc.ny...>>>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>> news:XkMUd.389$L17.294@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>> > news:L1EUd.10809$tC7.10262@news02.roc.ny...>>> >>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>> >> news:JMxUd.7459$MY6.1673@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>> >> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>> >> > newsYvUd.10783$i22.2978@news02.roc.ny...>>> >> >> "Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>> >> >> news:j7pUd.7079$873.6524@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>> >> >> > Harrythenut does not want to admit he lost the election, and it >>> >> >> > is>>> >> >> > everyone>>> >> >> > else in the country that is wrong.>>> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions >>> >> >> of>>> >> > loonies>>> >> >> walking around who actually believe this rapture nonsense, and are>>> >> >> willing>>> >> >> to manipulate politics here and overseas to fit their>> hallucinations?>>> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions of>>> >> > loonies walking around who actually believe the President Bush is >>> >> > not>>> > the>>> >> > President, as they did not vote for him? That there are millions of>>> >> > loonies>>> >> > walking around who actually believe the Sen. Kerry would be>> competant?>>> >> >
That has nothing to do with the original subject of this thread.>>> >>
Makes as much sense as you stating there are 65 mm loonies waiting the>>> > rapture.>>> >
Simple, for you:>>>
Number>>> Doesn't>>> Matter>>>
Oh, now it does not matter?>>
1) Nobody can accurately determine the number.>2) If there were just eleven, but they had the president's ear, they'd be >dangerous.>3) You know there are millions. The proof? Nobody buys television time to >address a tiny audience. Turn on your TV on Sunday morning. >
Is it your contention, Doug, that Bush is now going to start lobbing nukes around the world to experience the 'rapture' called for by these 'loonies' who 'have his ear'?
How was the 65 million number picked, Doug? If you started off talking about 11 loonies, would you get the reaction you desired?
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message news:g51921pp8kb375sucsnsvfldfe5m2mg9u5@4ax.com...> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 14:52:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter" > <ancientangler@hotmail.com>> wrote:>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>news:tXRUd.731$L17.29@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>>
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>> news:dpMUd.34$P15.12@news01.roc.ny...>>>>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>>> news:XkMUd.389$L17.294@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>>> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>>> > news:L1EUd.10809$tC7.10262@news02.roc.ny...>>>> >>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>>> >> news:JMxUd.7459$MY6.1673@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>>> >> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>>> >> > newsYvUd.10783$i22.2978@news02.roc.ny...>>>> >> >> "Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>>> >> >> news:j7pUd.7079$873.6524@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>>> >> >> > Harrythenut does not want to admit he lost the election, and it>>>> >> >> > is>>>> >> >> > everyone>>>> >> >> > else in the country that is wrong.>>>> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions>>>> >> >> of>>>> >> > loonies>>>> >> >> walking around who actually believe this rapture nonsense, and >>>> >> >> are>>>> >> >> willing>>>> >> >> to manipulate politics here and overseas to fit their>>> hallucinations?>>>> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are millions >>>> >> > of>>>> >> > loonies walking around who actually believe the President Bush is>>>> >> > not>>>> > the>>>> >> > President, as they did not vote for him? That there are millions >>>> >> > of>>>> >> > loonies>>>> >> > walking around who actually believe the Sen. Kerry would be>>> competant?>>>> >> >
That has nothing to do with the original subject of this thread.>>>> >>
Makes as much sense as you stating there are 65 mm loonies waiting >>>> > the>>>> > rapture.>>>> >
Simple, for you:>>>>
Number>>>> Doesn't>>>> Matter>>>>
Oh, now it does not matter?>>>
1) Nobody can accurately determine the number.>>2) If there were just eleven, but they had the president's ear, they'd be>>dangerous.>>3) You know there are millions. The proof? Nobody buys television time to>>address a tiny audience. Turn on your TV on Sunday morning.>>
Is it your contention, Doug, that Bush is now going to start lobbing nukes> around the world to experience the 'rapture' called for by these 'loonies' > who> 'have his ear'?>
How was the 65 million number picked, Doug? If you started off talking > about 11> loonies, would you get the reaction you desired?>
I have no idea how the number was picked. I simply tagged onto someone else's message. You have nothing better to do. Read backwards through the discussion.
As far as Bush, he doesn't need to lob nukes to be dangerous. Let's turn the question around: You don't want religious fanatics determining political policy in the Arab countries, right? What about here? Do you want them wielding the same influence here?
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message news:t2l9211h290m90lhvs067mhlspbrb445ot@4ax.com...> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:09:45 GMT, "Doug Kanter" > <ancientangler@hotmail.com>> wrote:>
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message>>news:g51921pp8kb375sucsnsvfldfe5m2mg9u5@4ax.com...>>> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 14:52:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter">>> <ancientangler@hotmail.com>>>> wrote:>>>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>>>news:tXRUd.731$L17.29@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>>>>
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>>>> news:dpMUd.34$P15.12@news01.roc.ny...>>>>>>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>>>>> news:XkMUd.389$L17.294@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>>>>> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>>>>> > news:L1EUd.10809$tC7.10262@news02.roc.ny...>>>>>> >>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>>>>> >> news:JMxUd.7459$MY6.1673@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>>>>> >> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>>>>> >> > newsYvUd.10783$i22.2978@news02.roc.ny...>>>>>> >> >> "Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>>>>> >> >> news:j7pUd.7079$873.6524@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>>>>> >> >> > Harrythenut does not want to admit he lost the election, and >>>>>> >> >> > it>>>>>> >> >> > is>>>>>> >> >> > everyone>>>>>> >> >> > else in the country that is wrong.>>>>>> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are >>>>>> >> >> millions>>>>>> >> >> of>>>>>> >> > loonies>>>>>> >> >> walking around who actually believe this rapture nonsense, and>>>>>> >> >> are>>>>>> >> >> willing>>>>>> >> >> to manipulate politics here and overseas to fit their>>>>> hallucinations?>>>>>> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are >>>>>> >> > millions>>>>>> >> > of>>>>>> >> > loonies walking around who actually believe the President Bush >>>>>> >> > is>>>>>> >> > not>>>>>> > the>>>>>> >> > President, as they did not vote for him? That there are >>>>>> >> > millions>>>>>> >> > of>>>>>> >> > loonies>>>>>> >> > walking around who actually believe the Sen. Kerry would be>>>>> competant?>>>>>> >> >
That has nothing to do with the original subject of this thread.>>>>>> >>
Makes as much sense as you stating there are 65 mm loonies waiting>>>>>> > the>>>>>> > rapture.>>>>>> >
Simple, for you:>>>>>>
Number>>>>>> Doesn't>>>>>> Matter>>>>>>
Oh, now it does not matter?>>>>>
1) Nobody can accurately determine the number.>>>>2) If there were just eleven, but they had the president's ear, they'd >>>>be>>>>dangerous.>>>>3) You know there are millions. The proof? Nobody buys television time >>>>to>>>>address a tiny audience. Turn on your TV on Sunday morning.>>>>
Is it your contention, Doug, that Bush is now going to start lobbing >>> nukes>>> around the world to experience the 'rapture' called for by these >>> 'loonies'>>> who>>> 'have his ear'?>>>
How was the 65 million number picked, Doug? If you started off talking>>> about 11>>> loonies, would you get the reaction you desired?>>>
I have no idea how the number was picked. I simply tagged onto someone>>else's message. You have nothing better to do. Read backwards through the>>discussion.>>
As far as Bush, he doesn't need to lob nukes to be dangerous. Let's turn >>the>>question around: You don't want religious fanatics determining political>>policy in the Arab countries, right? What about here? Do you want them>>wielding the same influence here?>>
Let's *don't* turn the question around! You, et al, are making all the > wild> allegations. Back them up!>
You are telling us you just glommed onto a number with no idea where it > came> from? Did you ever consider that perhaps the whole allegation was the > result of> overimagination?
No. First of all, the number doesn't matter. Could be 5 million, 12 million, or 65 million. Irrelevant. If *any* number of zealots determine public policy, it's bad for this country, both internally and overseas.
If you're not comfortable with the number being debated ad nauseum here, pick one so we can get past the issue.
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:ih4Vd.1229$L17.998@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message> news94Vd.154$P15.21@news01.roc.ny...>>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>> news:fK3Vd.1215$L17.1005@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>> > newsk%Ud.74$173.23@news02.roc.ny...>> >>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>> >> news:tXRUd.731$L17.29@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>> >> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>> >> > news:dpMUd.34$P15.12@news01.roc.ny...>> >> >>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>> >> >> news:XkMUd.389$L17.294@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>> >> >> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>> >> >> > news:L1EUd.10809$tC7.10262@news02.roc.ny...>> >> >> >>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>> >> >> >> news:JMxUd.7459$MY6.1673@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>> >> >> >> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>> >> >> >> > newsYvUd.10783$i22.2978@news02.roc.ny...>> >> >> >> >> "Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>> >> >> >> >> news:j7pUd.7079$873.6524@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>> >> >> >> >> > Harrythenut does not want to admit he lost the election, >> >> >> >> >> > and>> >> >> >> >> > it>> >> >> >> >> > is>> >> >> >> >> > everyone>> >> >> >> >> > else in the country that is wrong.>> >> >> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are>> >> >> >> >> millions>> >> >> >> >> of>> >> >> >> > loonies>> >> >> >> >> walking around who actually believe this rapture nonsense, >> >> >> >> >> and>> > are>> >> >> >> >> willing>> >> >> >> >> to manipulate politics here and overseas to fit their>> >> > hallucinations?>> >> >> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are> millions>> > of>> >> >> >> > loonies walking around who actually believe the President Bush> is>> >> >> >> > not>> >> >> > the>> >> >> >> > President, as they did not vote for him? That there are> millions>> > of>> >> >> >> > loonies>> >> >> >> > walking around who actually believe the Sen. Kerry would be>> >> > competant?>> >> >> >> >
That has nothing to do with the original subject of this thread.>> >> >> >>
Makes as much sense as you stating there are 65 mm loonies >> >> >> > waiting>> > the>> >> >> > rapture.>> >> >> >
Simple, for you:>> >> >>
Number>> >> >> Doesn't>> >> >> Matter>> >> >>
Oh, now it does not matter?>> >> >
1) Nobody can accurately determine the number.>> >> 2) If there were just eleven, but they had the president's ear, they'd> be>> >> dangerous.>> >> 3) You know there are millions. The proof? Nobody buys television time> to>> >> address a tiny audience. Turn on your TV on Sunday morning.>> >>
Now it is probably millions? Get your facts somewhat straight before>> > posting, and people may pay attention to you.>> >
Is this really the best you can do? Fixate on a number which nobody can>> accurately determine?>>
Is this really the best you can do? Throw out a huge number and then say> well, the real number does not count?>
Read slowly: I did not pick the number, nor did I claim it was accurate. I can only come to the same conclusion which you will agree with (internally), but deny (publicly) because it's convenient.
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:33:09 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message >news:ih4Vd.1229$L17.998@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>> news94Vd.154$P15.21@news01.roc.ny...>>>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>> news:fK3Vd.1215$L17.1005@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>> > newsk%Ud.74$173.23@news02.roc.ny...>>> >>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>> >> news:tXRUd.731$L17.29@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>> >> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>> >> > news:dpMUd.34$P15.12@news01.roc.ny...>>> >> >>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>> >> >> news:XkMUd.389$L17.294@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>> >> >> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>> >> >> > news:L1EUd.10809$tC7.10262@news02.roc.ny...>>> >> >> >>
"Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>> >> >> >> news:JMxUd.7459$MY6.1673@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>> >> >> >> >
"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>> >> >> >> > newsYvUd.10783$i22.2978@news02.roc.ny...>>> >> >> >> >> "Calif Bill" <bmckee.nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message>>> >> >> >> >> news:j7pUd.7079$873.6524@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>>> >> >> >> >> > Harrythenut does not want to admit he lost the election, >>> >> >> >> >> > and>>> >> >> >> >> > it>>> >> >> >> >> > is>>> >> >> >> >> > everyone>>> >> >> >> >> > else in the country that is wrong.>>> >> >> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are>>> >> >> >> >> millions>>> >> >> >> >> of>>> >> >> >> > loonies>>> >> >> >> >> walking around who actually believe this rapture nonsense, >>> >> >> >> >> and>>> > are>>> >> >> >> >> willing>>> >> >> >> >> to manipulate politics here and overseas to fit their>>> >> > hallucinations?>>> >> >> >> >>
Does your comment somehow negate the fact that there are>> millions>>> > of>>> >> >> >> > loonies walking around who actually believe the President Bush>> is>>> >> >> >> > not>>> >> >> > the>>> >> >> >> > President, as they did not vote for him? That there are>> millions>>> > of>>> >> >> >> > loonies>>> >> >> >> > walking around who actually believe the Sen. Kerry would be>>> >> > competant?>>> >> >> >> >
That has nothing to do with the original subject of this thread.>>> >> >> >>
Makes as much sense as you stating there are 65 mm loonies >>> >> >> > waiting>>> > the>>> >> >> > rapture.>>> >> >> >
Simple, for you:>>> >> >>
Number>>> >> >> Doesn't>>> >> >> Matter>>> >> >>
Oh, now it does not matter?>>> >> >
1) Nobody can accurately determine the number.>>> >> 2) If there were just eleven, but they had the president's ear, they'd>> be>>> >> dangerous.>>> >> 3) You know there are millions. The proof? Nobody buys television time>> to>>> >> address a tiny audience. Turn on your TV on Sunday morning.>>> >>
Now it is probably millions? Get your facts somewhat straight before>>> > posting, and people may pay attention to you.>>> >
Is this really the best you can do? Fixate on a number which nobody can>>> accurately determine?>>>
Is this really the best you can do? Throw out a huge number and then say>> well, the real number does not count?>>
Read slowly: I did not pick the number, nor did I claim it was accurate. I >can only come to the same conclusion which you will agree with (internally), >but deny (publicly) because it's convenient. >
Again, is the rest of your story as accurate as your number?
John H
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
1) Nobody can accurately determine the number.> >> >> 2) If there were just eleven, but they had the president's ear,
they'd> > be> >> >> dangerous.> >> >> 3) You know there are millions. The proof? Nobody buys television time> > to> >> >> address a tiny audience. Turn on your TV on Sunday morning.> >> >>
Now it is probably millions? Get your facts somewhat straight before> >> > posting, and people may pay attention to you.> >> >
Is this really the best you can do? Fixate on a number which nobody can> >> accurately determine?> >>
Is this really the best you can do? Throw out a huge number and then
well, the real number does not count?> >
Read slowly: I did not pick the number, nor did I claim it was accurate. I> can only come to the same conclusion which you will agree with
(internally),> but deny (publicly) because it's convenient.>
No, you stated the number as fact. You can not back up your facts, so your argument is a fallacy.
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 12:18:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote:>>>Since you believe religious zealots should not influence politics in the>>>Middle East, do you also believe they should NOT do the same here?>>
===============================>>
Especially here.>>
Cripes....at least SOMEBODY is awake here. Have a beer, Wayne.
======================================
Thanks. I'd be willing to ceded the entire middle east to religious zealots of all stripes if they'd promise to stay there and leave the oil supply alone (for the boat of course).
Wayne.B wrote:> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 12:18:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"> <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote:>
Since you believe religious zealots should not influence politics in the>>>>Middle East, do you also believe they should NOT do the same here?>>>
===============================>>>
Especially here.>>>
Cripes....at least SOMEBODY is awake here. Have a beer, Wayne. >
======================================>
Thanks. I'd be willing to ceded the entire middle east to religious> zealots of all stripes if they'd promise to stay there and leave the> oil supply alone (for the boat of course). >
On 1 Mar 2005 16:19:11 -0800, woodcraftssuch@yahoo.com wrote:
Here's a forum from Landover Baptist Church. It's an atheistic humor>site, they are not republicans. They are heavy on sarcasm, the posts>by Jeb Thurmond are the relevant ones and they illustrate that sarcasm>isn't necessarily humorous. Whether the numbers are right, I don't>know. Numbers, smumbers, how many wmd's were there supposed to be? Was>it 350 or 380 tons of high explosives that went missing? How many>causilties, or dead, or traumitized? I don't know. The numbers don't>matter so much in this Landover forum as the thoughts these people are>expressing. Are these your kind of people? Do you on the right agree>with this way of thinking? Sam>
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message news:347c21loj5h9cdp2bnu60lalib5rm1tgin@4ax.com...
No. The OP posted a story which claimed the number to be fact. The author>>certainly estimated, and probably on the high side. But, that doesn't>>matter. Let's try this again, and for the last time.>>
Since you believe religious zealots should not influence politics in the>>Middle East, do you also believe they should NOT do the same here?>>
Yes.
Good. Write to your president. Better yet, scream at your legislators. Your president wouldn't understand anyway.
You are now asking a simple question. Earlier you were trying to imply > that some> ridiculous story you heard was true. There is a big difference.
The number mentioned in the story cannot be proved. The existence of large numbers of such maniacs is clear, however.
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:16:56 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote:
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message >news:347c21loj5h9cdp2bnu60lalib5rm1tgin@4ax.com...>
No. The OP posted a story which claimed the number to be fact. The author>>>certainly estimated, and probably on the high side. But, that doesn't>>>matter. Let's try this again, and for the last time.>>>
Since you believe religious zealots should not influence politics in the>>>Middle East, do you also believe they should NOT do the same here?>>>
Yes.>
Good. Write to your president. Better yet, scream at your legislators. Your >president wouldn't understand anyway.
Why? John H
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
Proof that kooks exist and call themselves Christians.>
John H>
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
Here's a short list of the people quoted: Goerge W. Bush Pat Robertson Rev Jerry Falwell Dr. Laura Schlessinger Supreme Court Judge William Reinquist Ralph Reed Ann Coulter Cal Thomas Sen. Kay O'Conner John Ashcroft Sen. James Inhofe Gen. William Boykin Rush Limbaugh Gov. Jeb Bush I'm thinking you didn't read the forum if you are saying these people are kooks. Sam
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message news:jcec219lipktueh6plurc5qh5nu0e99gtv@4ax.com...> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:16:56 GMT, "Doug Kanter" > <ancientangler@hotmail.com>> wrote:>
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message>>news:347c21loj5h9cdp2bnu60lalib5rm1tgin@4ax.com...>>
No. The OP posted a story which claimed the number to be fact. The >>>>author>>>>certainly estimated, and probably on the high side. But, that doesn't>>>>matter. Let's try this again, and for the last time.>>>>
Since you believe religious zealots should not influence politics in the>>>>Middle East, do you also believe they should NOT do the same here?>>>>
Yes.>>
Good. Write to your president. Better yet, scream at your legislators. >>Your>>president wouldn't understand anyway.>
Why?
Because you want them to watch out for policies that stink of religious fundamentalism. Why indeed.
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 22:24:06 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote:
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message >news:jcec219lipktueh6plurc5qh5nu0e99gtv@4ax.com...>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:16:56 GMT, "Doug Kanter" >> <ancientangler@hotmail.com>>> wrote:>>
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message>>>news:347c21loj5h9cdp2bnu60lalib5rm1tgin@4ax.com...>>>
No. The OP posted a story which claimed the number to be fact. The >>>>>author>>>>>certainly estimated, and probably on the high side. But, that doesn't>>>>>matter. Let's try this again, and for the last time.>>>>>
Since you believe religious zealots should not influence politics in the>>>>>Middle East, do you also believe they should NOT do the same here?>>>>>
Yes.>>>
Good. Write to your president. Better yet, scream at your legislators. >>>Your>>>president wouldn't understand anyway.>>
Why?>
Because you want them to watch out for policies that stink of religious >fundamentalism. Why indeed. >
Now you've come full-circle again. To what policies are you referring? Is Bush about to start lobbing nukes to bring about this 'rapture' you folks seem so enthralled with?
John H
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
Proof that kooks exist and call themselves Christians.>>
John H>>
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking.">
Here's a short list of the people quoted:>Goerge W. Bush>Pat Robertson>Rev Jerry Falwell>Dr. Laura Schlessinger>Supreme Court Judge William Reinquist>Ralph Reed>Ann Coulter>Cal Thomas>Sen. Kay O'Conner>John Ashcroft>Sen. James Inhofe>Gen. William Boykin>Rush Limbaugh>Gov. Jeb Bush>I'm thinking you didn't read the forum if you are saying these people>are kooks. Sam>
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are>putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.">Mark Twain
Adds little credence to the issue.
John H
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
Proof that kooks exist and call themselves Christians.> >>
John H> >>
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."> >
Here's a short list of the people quoted:> >Goerge W. Bush> >Pat Robertson> >Rev Jerry Falwell> >Dr. Laura Schlessinger> >Supreme Court Judge William Reinquist> >Ralph Reed> >Ann Coulter> >Cal Thomas> >Sen. Kay O'Conner> >John Ashcroft> >Sen. James Inhofe> >Gen. William Boykin> >Rush Limbaugh> >Gov. Jeb Bush> >I'm thinking you didn't read the forum if you are saying these
people> >are kooks. Sam> >
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who
putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."> >Mark Twain>
Adds little credence to the issue.>
John H>
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
Yes, you're right. It doesn't add 'credence' to the issue of the correct numbers and it doesn't have a whole lot to say about the original issue concerning world affairs being swayed by belief in the Rapture. I agree with you that it's proof that a lot of those people are 'kooks', and will just assume that since they are religous republicans, you agree with them and their way of thinking is allright. Thanks, Sam
Proof that kooks exist and call themselves Christians.>> >>
John H>> >>
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking.">> >
Here's a short list of the people quoted:>> >Goerge W. Bush>> >Pat Robertson>> >Rev Jerry Falwell>> >Dr. Laura Schlessinger>> >Supreme Court Judge William Reinquist>> >Ralph Reed>> >Ann Coulter>> >Cal Thomas>> >Sen. Kay O'Conner>> >John Ashcroft>> >Sen. James Inhofe>> >Gen. William Boykin>> >Rush Limbaugh>> >Gov. Jeb Bush>> >I'm thinking you didn't read the forum if you are saying these>people>> >are kooks. Sam>> >
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who>are>> >putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.">> >Mark Twain>>
Adds little credence to the issue.>>
John H>>
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking.">
Yes, you're right. It doesn't add 'credence' to the issue of the>correct numbers and it doesn't have a whole lot to say about the>original issue concerning world affairs being swayed by belief in the>Rapture. I agree with you that it's proof that a lot of those people>are 'kooks', and will just assume that since they are religous>republicans, you agree with them and their way of thinking is allright.>Thanks, Sam
What, Sam, did you find when you read the first two links? What quotes do you find in the remainder that supports any undue 'rapturous' or otherwise influence on the President?
It's very easy to quote something out of context, or 'say' that someone said something they didn't.
I have no faith in anything these kooks said. But, maybe you can convince me otherwise. It's for sure that typing a list of names doesn't do it.
John H
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message news:t1gc219a1eo230ooftf5q4f1d4c5ikurif@4ax.com...
Good. Write to your president. Better yet, scream at your legislators.>>>>Your>>>>president wouldn't understand anyway.>>>
Why?>>
Because you want them to watch out for policies that stink of religious>>fundamentalism. Why indeed.>>
Now you've come full-circle again. To what policies are you referring? Is > Bush> about to start lobbing nukes to bring about this 'rapture' you folks seem > so> enthralled with?>
John H
This is getting boring, so let's end it on a simple note. First of all, pretend this happening on paper. Take a fat, black marker and eliminate all occurrences of the word "nukes". I don't know where it came from, and you are fixated on it.
Next: "to what policies", you asked. From my point of view, ***ANY*** thoughts from American religious zealots regarding the Middle East should be ignored completely by any president. Period. The region is too hot, emotionally, for some people to view it with any kind of objectivity. Even sane people have a hard time with it. The insane can only be worse.
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:32:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote:
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message >news:t1gc219a1eo230ooftf5q4f1d4c5ikurif@4ax.com...>
Good. Write to your president. Better yet, scream at your legislators.>>>>>Your>>>>>president wouldn't understand anyway.>>>>
Why?>>>
Because you want them to watch out for policies that stink of religious>>>fundamentalism. Why indeed.>>>
Now you've come full-circle again. To what policies are you referring? Is >> Bush>> about to start lobbing nukes to bring about this 'rapture' you folks seem >> so>> enthralled with?>>
John H>
This is getting boring, so let's end it on a simple note.
You're right.
First of all, >pretend this happening on paper. Take a fat, black marker and eliminate all >occurrences of the word "nukes". I don't know where it came from, and you >are fixated on it.>
The 'nukes' came from the supposed requirement for an ending of the world to achieve the 'rapture'.
Next: "to what policies", you asked. From my point of view, ***ANY*** >thoughts from American religious zealots regarding the Middle East should be >ignored completely by any president. Period. The region is too hot, >emotionally, for some people to view it with any kind of objectivity. Even >sane people have a hard time with it. The insane can only be worse. >
I agree that extremists from either religious *or* secular zealots should not be the basis for decisions. They cannot, and should not, be totally ignored. Senator Byrd, on the other hand, *should* be totally ignored.
Have a great day!
John H
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message news:0rbe21h157pfg0alsa28ug0l169uk8crcg@4ax.com...> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:32:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter" > <ancientangler@hotmail.com>> wrote:>
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message>>news:t1gc219a1eo230ooftf5q4f1d4c5ikurif@4ax.com...>>
Good. Write to your president. Better yet, scream at your legislators.>>>>>>Your>>>>>>president wouldn't understand anyway.>>>>>
Why?>>>>
Because you want them to watch out for policies that stink of religious>>>>fundamentalism. Why indeed.>>>>
Now you've come full-circle again. To what policies are you referring? >>> Is>>> Bush>>> about to start lobbing nukes to bring about this 'rapture' you folks >>> seem>>> so>>> enthralled with?>>>
John H>>
This is getting boring, so let's end it on a simple note.>
You're right.>
First of all,>>pretend this happening on paper. Take a fat, black marker and eliminate >>all>>occurrences of the word "nukes". I don't know where it came from, and you>>are fixated on it.>>
The 'nukes' came from the supposed requirement for an ending of the world > to> achieve the 'rapture'.
Well, John, many crazy people were sane before they were crazy. There's no way of knowing if or when some of these loonies might get to your president, and maybe *he* steps over the line, too.
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:35:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote:
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message >news:0rbe21h157pfg0alsa28ug0l169uk8crcg@4ax.com...>> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:32:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter" >> <ancientangler@hotmail.com>>> wrote:>>
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message>>>news:t1gc219a1eo230ooftf5q4f1d4c5ikurif@4ax.com...>>>
Good. Write to your president. Better yet, scream at your legislators.>>>>>>>Your>>>>>>>president wouldn't understand anyway.>>>>>>
Why?>>>>>
Because you want them to watch out for policies that stink of religious>>>>>fundamentalism. Why indeed.>>>>>
Now you've come full-circle again. To what policies are you referring? >>>> Is>>>> Bush>>>> about to start lobbing nukes to bring about this 'rapture' you folks >>>> seem>>>> so>>>> enthralled with?>>>>
John H>>>
This is getting boring, so let's end it on a simple note.>>
You're right.>>
First of all,>>>pretend this happening on paper. Take a fat, black marker and eliminate >>>all>>>occurrences of the word "nukes". I don't know where it came from, and you>>>are fixated on it.>>>
The 'nukes' came from the supposed requirement for an ending of the world >> to>> achieve the 'rapture'.>
Well, John, many crazy people were sane before they were crazy. There's no >way of knowing if or when some of these loonies might get to your president, >and maybe *he* steps over the line, too.>
Yup, we have to hope our presidents give the extremists on both sides the deserved attention and then take the appropriate action.
Luckily, Bush has done a super job in this area.
Have a *spectacular* day!
John H
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message news:lhhe21loclh3t0je7sldp0k5t9997nerph@4ax.com...> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:35:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter" > <ancientangler@hotmail.com>> wrote:>
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message>>news:0rbe21h157pfg0alsa28ug0l169uk8crcg@4ax.com...>>> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:32:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter">>> <ancientangler@hotmail.com>>>> wrote:>>>
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message>>>>news:t1gc219a1eo230ooftf5q4f1d4c5ikurif@4ax.com...>>>>
Good. Write to your president. Better yet, scream at your >>>>>>>>legislators.>>>>>>>>Your>>>>>>>>president wouldn't understand anyway.>>>>>>>
Why?>>>>>>
Because you want them to watch out for policies that stink of >>>>>>religious>>>>>>fundamentalism. Why indeed.>>>>>>
Now you've come full-circle again. To what policies are you referring?>>>>> Is>>>>> Bush>>>>> about to start lobbing nukes to bring about this 'rapture' you folks>>>>> seem>>>>> so>>>>> enthralled with?>>>>>
John H>>>>
This is getting boring, so let's end it on a simple note.>>>
You're right.>>>
First of all,>>>>pretend this happening on paper. Take a fat, black marker and eliminate>>>>all>>>>occurrences of the word "nukes". I don't know where it came from, and >>>>you>>>>are fixated on it.>>>>
The 'nukes' came from the supposed requirement for an ending of the >>> world>>> to>>> achieve the 'rapture'.>>
Well, John, many crazy people were sane before they were crazy. There's no>>way of knowing if or when some of these loonies might get to your >>president,>>and maybe *he* steps over the line, too.>>
Yup, we have to hope our presidents give the extremists on both sides the> deserved attention and then take the appropriate action.>
Luckily, Bush has done a super job in this area.>
Have a *spectacular* day!
Yes. That has resulted in his Middle East policy, summarized as "Stop Hating Us, Or Suffer the Consequences".
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 17:52:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yes. That has resulted in his Middle East policy, summarized as "Stop Hating >Us, Or Suffer the Consequences".
For sure! Even the NY Times is commenting about his results in the middle east:
***************************************** The New York Times March 1, 2005 EDITORIAL Mideast Climate Change
It's not even spring yet, but a long-frozen political order seems to be cracking all over the Middle East. Cautious hopes for something new and better are stirring along the Tigris and the Nile, the elegant boulevards of Beirut, and the impoverished towns of the Gaza Strip. It is far too soon for any certainties about ultimate outcomes. In Iraq, a brutal insurgency still competes for headlines with post-election democratic maneuvering. Yesterday a suicide bomber plowed into a crowd of Iraqi police and Army recruits, killing at least 122 people - the largest death toll in a single such bombing since the American invasion nearly two years ago. And the Palestinian terrorists who blew up a Tel Aviv nightclub last Friday underscored the continuing fragility of what has now been almost two months of steady political and diplomatic progress between Israelis and Palestinians.
Still, this has so far been a year of heartening surprises - each one remarkable in itself, and taken together truly astonishing. The Bush administration is entitled to claim a healthy share of the credit for many of these advances. It boldly proclaimed the cause of Middle East democracy at a time when few in the West thought it had any realistic chance. And for all the negative consequences that flowed from the American invasion of Iraq, there could have been no democratic elections there this January if Saddam Hussein had still been in power. Washington's challenge now lies in finding ways to nurture and encourage these still fragile trends without smothering them in a triumphalist embrace.
Lebanon's political reawakening took a significant new turn yesterday when popular protests brought down the pro-Syrian government of Prime Minister Omar Karami. Syria's occupation of Lebanon, nearly three decades long, started tottering after the Feb. 14 assassination of the country's leading independent politician, the former prime minister Rafik Hariri.
If Damascus had a hand in this murder, as many Lebanese suspect, it had a boomerang effect on Lebanon's politics. Instead of intimidating critics of Syria's dominant role, it inflamed them. To stem the growing backlash over the Hariri murder, last week Syria announced its intentions to pull back its occupation forces to a region near the border - although without offering any firm timetable. Yesterday, with protests continuing, the pro-Syrian cabinet resigned. Washington, in an unusual alliance with France, continues to press for full compliance with the Security Council's demand for an early and complete Syrian withdrawal. That needs to happen promptly. Once Syria is gone, Hezbollah, which has engaged in international terrorism under Syrian protection, must either confine itself to peaceful political activity or be shut down.
Last weekend's surprise announcement of plans to hold at least nominally competitive presidential elections in Egypt could prove even more historic, although many of the specific details seem likely to be disappointing. Egypt is the Arab world's most populous country and one of its most politically influential. In more than five millenniums of recorded history, it has never seen a truly free and competitive election.
To be realistic, Egypt isn't likely to see one this year either. For all his talk of opening up the process, President Hosni Mubarak, 76, is likely to make sure that no threatening candidates emerge to deny him a fifth six-year term. But after seeing more than eight million Iraqis choose their leaders in January, Egypt's voters, and its increasingly courageous opposition movement, will no longer retreat into sullen hopelessness so readily. The Bush administration has helped foster that feeling of hope for a democratic future by keeping the pressure on Mr. Mubarak. But the real heroes are on-the-ground patriots like Ayman Nour, who founded a new party aptly named Tomorrow last October and is now in jail. If Mr. Mubarak truly wants more open politics, he should free Mr. Nour promptly.
It is similarly encouraging that the terrorists who attacked a Tel Aviv nightclub on Friday, killing five Israelis, have not yet managed to completely scuttle the new peace dynamic between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Israel contends that those terrorists were sponsored by Syria, but its soldiers reported discovering an explosives-filled car in the West Bank yesterday. The good news is that the leaders on both sides did not instantly retreat to familiar corners in angry rejectionism. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and the new Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, have proved they can work together to thwart terrorism and deny terrorists an instant veto over progress toward a negotiated peace.
Over the past two decades, as democracies replaced police states across Central and Eastern Europe and Latin America, and a new economic dynamism lifted hundreds of millions of eastern and southern Asia out of poverty and into the middle class, the Middle East stagnated in a perverse time warp that reduced its brightest people to hopelessness or barely contained rage. The wonder is less that a new political restlessness is finally visible, but that it took so long to break through the ice.
Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | RSS | Help | Back to Top *******************************
John H
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
"John H" <notavailable@here.com> wrote in message news:9rle211ggmtp11grirk41fnu89tjhq9fmn@4ax.com...> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 17:52:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter" > <ancientangler@hotmail.com>> wrote:>
Yes. That has resulted in his Middle East policy, summarized as "Stop >>Hating>>Us, Or Suffer the Consequences". >
For sure! Even the NY Times is commenting about his results in the middle > east:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 20:38:41 -0400, Terry Spragg <tspragg567nospam@rogers.com> wrote:
John H wrote:>snip>
John H>>
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking.">
Not if you consider processing delays. Some delays get discounted, >becoming fuzzy logic of the first instance. It can be utilized to >benefit. Glitchy.>
Tell me a second instance, and I may show you a third.>
Terry K
Huh?
John H
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 02:34:56 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Terry Spragg" <tspragg567nospam@rogers.com> wrote in message >news:k7Cdnb2k0tpGMLrfRVn-iQ@rogers.com...>> John H wrote:>> snip>>
John H>>>
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking.">>
Not if you consider processing delays. Some delays get discounted, >> becoming fuzzy logic of the first instance. It can be utilized to benefit. >> Glitchy.>>
Tell me a second instance, and I may show you a third.>>
Terry K>>
John's "binary thinking" quote wasn't connected with computer science, >mathematics or logic. Rather, it was a comment on the behavior of his >favorite political thinkers. >
It was a comment of *all* decision makers once the 'no decision' option is removed from the alternatives.
John H
"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
