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Re: Value? Steals in defense
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GYXU > Basketball > Re: Value? Steals in defense 25 May 2005 18:59:42
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Re: Value? Steals in defense

George W Harris 24 May 2005 17:42:02
 On 24 May 2005 05:59:37 -0700, "Diamondback"
<richard.forgo@cabl­espeed.com> wrote:

:Since we're in the wasteland of sports right now, let me toss this one
:out there. How much value should be placed on steals in the context of
:considering overall defense?
:
:Case in point: Larry Hughes, two-guard, Washington Wizards (yes, I
:know it's pro, but work with me here)
:
:He gets named to the NBA's first-team defensive team, ostensibly
:because he led the league in steals. But is he really a defender? The
:Wiz defense -- if you can call it that -- is porous at best. Just ask
:D­uane Wade. I remember watching him release his guys early and putting
:his front court in bad positions frequently.

s/Larry Hughes/Chris Paul
s/Washington Wizards/Wake Forest

--
"The truths of mathematics describe a bright and clear universe,
exquisite and beautiful in its structure, in comparison with
which the physical world is turbid and confused."

-Eulogy for G.H.Hardy

George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Add comment
Donnie Barnes 24 May 2005 19:11:25 [ permanent link ]
 On Tue, 24 May, George W Harris wrote:> s/Larry Hughes/Chris Paul> s/Washington Wizards/Wake Forest

Wow, I know someone not on Charlie's Christmas card list *this* year.

Oh, and you left off your trailing slash in each of the above examples.
You'd also want a g in there somewhere if you wanted to do a global
substitution rather than only the first occurance. But I'm sure you knew
that. :-)­


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donnieba­rnes.com 879. V.
Add comment
Jack 24 May 2005 19:44:52 [ permanent link ]
 On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:42:02 GMT, George W Harris
<gharrus@mundsprung­.com> wrote:
On 24 May 2005 05:59:37 -0700, "Diamondback"><rich­ard.forgo@cablespeed­.com> wrote:>
:Since we're in the wasteland of sports right now, let me toss this one>:out there. How much value should be placed on steals in the context of>:considering overall defense?>:
I remember watching Jason Kidd when he played for Cal. He could
completely disrupt a team for four or five minutes by stealing the
ball and getting opponents to overcompensate. Teams started to watch
out for Kidd instead of playing their game.

Jack
Add comment
»Q« 24 May 2005 21:46:44 [ permanent link ]
 Donnie Barnes <djbSPAMSUCKS@donni­ebarnes.com> wrote in
<news:slrnd96gvn.4u­2.djbSPAMSUCKS@local­host.localdomain>:
On Tue, 24 May, George W Harris wrote:>> s/Larry Hughes/Chris Paul s/Washington Wizards/Wake Forest>
Wow, I know someone not on Charlie's Christmas card list *this*> year.>
Oh, and you left off your trailing slash in each of the above> examples. You'd also want a g in there somewhere if you wanted to> do a global substitution rather than only the first occurance.> But I'm sure you knew that. :-)­

Don't we some quotes because of the whitespaces? Is it basketball
season yet?

--
»Q«
Add comment
Edward M. Kennedy 24 May 2005 21:55:32 [ permanent link ]
 "Diamondback" <richard.forgo@cabl­espeed.com> wrote
Yes, he led the league in steals, but he would often leave his team in> a five-on-four situation when trying to time a steal and pick the> pocket of the guy he was guarding. I'll bet in those situations he was> running at 20 percent at best -- he just tried more than anyone else in> the league, so the numbers looked higher.

That's just dumb defense. Coach K is actually a stat monkey and
I'm quite sure those "bad attempts" do not go unpunished -- or,
the more important stat is the ratio of steals to bad attempts
(not all missed attempts are bad ones).
So, should steals be qualified when top defender awards are handed out?

Not in general, and I don't think Redick deserved first team AA,
either. Judging D on stats alone is what is stupid. IOW, the
voters were about as knowledgable as me who barely follows the
sport.

--Tedward


Add comment
Edward M. Kennedy 24 May 2005 23:17:24 [ permanent link ]
 "Diamondback" <richard.forgo@cabl­espeed.com> wrote
Not in general, and I don't think Redick deserved first team AA,> > either. Judging D on stats alone is what is stupid. IOW, the> > voters were about as knowledgable as me who barely follows the> > sport.>
I didn't think Redick was all that bad; I don't recall him ever flat> out releasing his man early.

A good coach reams for that, certain exceptions excepted. What I
meant was Redick was another example of voters being clueless.

With the exception of REELY fast guards, I was pleased with Redick's
defense.

--Tedward


Add comment
Donnie Barnes 24 May 2005 23:28:22 [ permanent link ]
 On Tue, 24 May, Edward M. Kennedy wrote:> That's just dumb defense. Coach K is actually a stat monkey and> I'm quite sure those "bad attempts" do not go unpunished -- or,> the more important stat is the ratio of steals to bad attempts> (not all missed attempts are bad ones).

I tend to doubt they keep track of some number on a stat sheet at Duke or
anywhere else, but like you said, bad attempts like that will get punished
at Duke. I'm pretty sure it is done by an immediate substitution and
subsequent threat of death if ever attempted again. Probably about the
same at UNC, too.

Sure, an occasional missed attempt that wasn't necessarily a horrible idea
might be overlooked. But get stoopid with it and you'll pay. Quickly and
severely.


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donnieba­rnes.com 879. V.
Add comment
Edward M. Kennedy 25 May 2005 00:05:02 [ permanent link ]
 "Donnie Barnes" <djbSPAMSUCKS@donni­ebarnes.com> wrote
That's just dumb defense. Coach K is actually a stat monkey and> > I'm quite sure those "bad attempts" do not go unpunished -- or,> > the more important stat is the ratio of steals to bad attempts> > (not all missed attempts are bad ones).>
I tend to doubt they keep track of some number on a stat sheet at Duke or> anywhere else, but like you said, bad attempts like that will get punished> at Duke. I'm pretty sure it is done by an immediate substitution and> subsequent threat of death if ever attempted again. Probably about the> same at UNC, too.

I knew the guy who set up a stat database for him in 1994 or
so, and he said K was tracking everything you could possibly
think of, way beyond standard stats. I'm sure K has a good
enough feel for how well a player does D, but halfway through
the season the stats might well reveal something a player
should work on a bit more than we thought.

Since the value of a player going for risky steals can pretty
much be objectively quantified, I'd think they would do it.
Of course, I cannot prove it.

--Tedward


Add comment
Geoffrey F. Green 25 May 2005 02:20:11 [ permanent link ]
 In article <slrnd96gvn.4u2.djb­SPAMSUCKS@localhost.­localdomain>,
Donnie Barnes <djbSPAMSUCKS@donni­ebarnes.com> wrote:
On Tue, 24 May, George W Harris wrote:> > s/Larry Hughes/Chris Paul> > s/Washington Wizards/Wake Forest>
Wow, I know someone not on Charlie's Christmas card list *this* year.>
Oh, and you left off your trailing slash in each of the above examples.> You'd also want a g in there somewhere if you wanted to do a global> substitution rather than only the first occurance. But I'm sure you knew> that. :-)­

There was only one occurrence, so there was no need for the /g.

- geoff
Add comment
Geoffrey F. Green 25 May 2005 02:20:22 [ permanent link ]
 In article <MrQ966081FE9DE1Ait­smeitsQ@QsFQDN.dyndn­s.org>,
»Q« <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote:
Donnie Barnes <djbSPAMSUCKS@donni­ebarnes.com> wrote in> <news:slrnd96gvn.4u­2.djbSPAMSUCKS@local­host.localdomain>:>
On Tue, 24 May, George W Harris wrote:> >> s/Larry Hughes/Chris Paul s/Washington Wizards/Wake Forest> >
Wow, I know someone not on Charlie's Christmas card list *this*> > year.> >
Oh, and you left off your trailing slash in each of the above> > examples. You'd also want a g in there somewhere if you wanted to> > do a global substitution rather than only the first occurance.> > But I'm sure you knew that. :-)­>
Don't we some quotes because of the whitespaces?

Verbs are our friends.

- geoff
Add comment
»Q« 25 May 2005 02:46:05 [ permanent link ]
 "Geoffrey F. Green" <geoff-usenet2@stue­begreen.com> wrote in
<news:geoff-usenet2­-FE0C65.182022240520­05@comcast.dca.gigan­ews.com>:
In article <MrQ966081FE9DE1Ait­smeitsQ@QsFQDN.dyndn­s.org>,> »Q« <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote:>
Donnie Barnes <djbSPAMSUCKS@donni­ebarnes.com> wrote in>> <news:slrnd96gvn.4u­2.djbSPAMSUCKS@local­host.localdomain>:>>­
On Tue, 24 May, George W Harris wrote:>>>> s/Larry Hughes/Chris Paul s/Washington Wizards/Wake Forest>>>
Wow, I know someone not on Charlie's Christmas card list *this*>>> year.>>>
Oh, and you left off your trailing slash in each of the above>>> examples. You'd also want a g in there somewhere if you wanted to>>> do a global substitution rather than only the first occurance.>>> But I'm sure you knew that. :-)­>>
Don't we some quotes because of the whitespaces?>
Verbs are our friends.

I'll try to be werbatim next time.

--
»Q«
Add comment
Edward M. Kennedy 25 May 2005 03:02:00 [ permanent link ]
 "Geoffrey F. Green" <geoff-usenet2@stue­begreen.com> wrote
s/Larry Hughes/Chris Paul s/Washington Wizards/Wake Forest> > >
Wow, I know someone not on Charlie's Christmas card list *this*> > > year.> > >
Oh, and you left off your trailing slash in each of the above> > > examples. You'd also want a g in there somewhere if you wanted to> > > do a global substitution rather than only the first occurance.> > > But I'm sure you knew that. :-)­> >
Don't we some quotes because of the whitespaces?>
Verbs are our friends.

Medic! Man down! Get the gin over here!

--Tedward


Add comment
George W Harris 25 May 2005 03:07:22 [ permanent link ]
 On Tue, 24 May 2005 12:46:44 -0500, »Q« <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote:

:D­on't we some quotes because of the whitespaces?

This sentence no verb. Well, an auxilliary
verb, anyway.

:
:--
:»Q«

--
"Intelligence is too complex to capture in a single number." -Alfred Binet

George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Add comment
Donnie Barnes 25 May 2005 06:23:56 [ permanent link ]
 On Tue, 24 May, George W Harris wrote:> On Tue, 24 May 2005 12:46:44 -0500, »Q« <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote:>
:D­on't we some quotes because of the whitespaces? >
This sentence no verb. Well, an auxilliary > verb, anyway.

Oh, look what the dessert has brought us to!


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donnieba­rnes.com 879. V.
Add comment
Charlie Board 25 May 2005 07:59:51 [ permanent link ]
 Donnie Barnes wrote:> On Tue, 24 May, George W Harris wrote:>
s/Larry Hughes/Chris Paul>>s/Washington Wizards/Wake Forest>
Wow, I know someone not on Charlie's Christmas card list *this* year.>
Oh, and you left off your trailing slash in each of the above examples.> You'd also want a g in there somewhere if you wanted to do a global> substitution rather than only the first occurance. But I'm sure you knew> that. :-)­

They teach irregular expressions at Duke...


Add comment
Edward M. Kennedy 25 May 2005 18:52:21 [ permanent link ]
 "Charlie Board" <charlieDIESPAMMERS­board@nc.rr.com> wrote
s/Larry Hughes/Chris Paul> >>s/Washington Wizards/Wake Forest> >
Wow, I know someone not on Charlie's Christmas card list *this* year.> >
Oh, and you left off your trailing slash in each of the above examples.> > You'd also want a g in there somewhere if you wanted to do a global> > substitution rather than only the first occurance. But I'm sure you knew> > that. :-)­>
They teach irregular expressions at Duke...

Die Tarheel Pondscum. In-Hale, Ex-Hale. If it bleeds,
we can kill it. Meagher spit in your face.

I actually preferred the days before formal pre-game
collaboration, when it was more spontaneous, needless
to say.

--Tedward


Add comment
Edward M. Kennedy 25 May 2005 18:59:42 [ permanent link ]
 "Diamondback" <richard.forgo@cabl­espeed.com> wrote
Not knowing him, K strikes me as a man who looks for an advantage> everywhere. And with clout like his within Duke, I'd be surprised if> they didn't throw out a few extra sheckles for someone to add a few> columns to a spreadsheet and fill 'em during the game.

I HOPE THAT SHECKLES COMMENT WASN"T AN ANTESEMITIC REMARKS!!!!

--Tedward

The heat gets to 'em after a while


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GYXU > Basketball > Re: Value? Steals in defense 25 May 2005 18:59:42
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