One bonfire, some fireworks, lots of yelling. No flipped cars, but it's early yet. Actually, I didn't see any cars on Franklin Street -- they warned us they'd tow any cars there after some time today.
Area stores have been asked not to sell light blue paint for the past week. That actually works pretty well. There was blue paint everywhere after the semis in '81, before they started doing that.
Not as many people as Halloween, but the crowd is much more pumped. And I left there 45 minutes ago, so it may be bigger now. On my way back to my car I saw a taxi van drop off a bunch of drunk people in formal wear.
One bonfire, some fireworks, lots of yelling. No flipped cars, but it's > early yet. Actually, I didn't see any cars on Franklin Street -- they > warned us they'd tow any cars there after some time today.
It bothers me how Durham police treat Duke students like criminals when they burn too many benches even when they have a fire permit to do so, yet when people go crazy in Chapel Hill the Chapel Hill police let them do what they want.
I remember my freshman year they called out the riot police when the Duke students tried to start a fire after a win over UNC. And this year they revoked all fire burning priveleges because of too many benches in the fire.
navin <snivan@earthlink.net> wrote:> It bothers me how Durham police treat Duke students like criminals when > they burn too many benches even when they have a fire permit to do so, > yet when people go crazy in Chapel Hill the Chapel Hill police let them > do what they want.
It is okay to have a bonfire every now and then - but with Duke winning so darn much - they were having bonfires like Dean Smith was hanging fake banners
Do not be like UMD - they have riots - burn cars - etc - win or lose
Let's hope that with all the cars cleared off Franklin Street on Monday night it isn't so empty that they could land planes on it
One bonfire, some fireworks, lots of yelling. No flipped cars, but >> it's early yet. Actually, I didn't see any cars on Franklin Street -- >> they warned us they'd tow any cars there after some time today.>
It bothers me how Durham police treat Duke students like criminals when > they burn too many benches even when they have a fire permit to do so, > yet when people go crazy in Chapel Hill the Chapel Hill police let them > do what they want.
You should realize that the bonfire I saw was smaller than one bench. People were jumping over it. It wasn't worth police intervention, considering how hard that would be to do with the crowd there.
One bonfire, some fireworks, lots of yelling. No flipped cars, but >>> it's early yet. Actually, I didn't see any cars on Franklin Street >>> -- they warned us they'd tow any cars there after some time today.>>
It bothers me how Durham police treat Duke students like criminals >> when they burn too many benches even when they have a fire permit to >> do so, yet when people go crazy in Chapel Hill the Chapel Hill police >> let them do what they want.>
You should realize that the bonfire I saw was smaller than one bench. > People were jumping over it. It wasn't worth police intervention, > considering how hard that would be to do with the crowd there.
I agree that there shouldn't be police intervention if it was a small fire. However, my point is that if the same thing had happened at Duke, there would be a large crackdown.
Geoffrey F. Green 3 April 2005 20:33:42 [ permanent link ]
In article <harry-66D4B6.10012103042005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>, Harry Everhart <harry@everhart.com> wrote:
navin <snivan@earthlink.net> wrote:> > It bothers me how Durham police treat Duke students like criminals when > > they burn too many benches even when they have a fire permit to do so, > > yet when people go crazy in Chapel Hill the Chapel Hill police let them > > do what they want.>
It is okay to have a bonfire every now and then - but with Duke winning > so darn much - they were having bonfires like Dean Smith was hanging > fake banners
Well, what's really dumb is that they get permits so they can have bonfires after beating the likes of Wake & UNC & Maryland in regular season games. Come on, now. I realize it's important not to get jaded (so you only celebrate, say, national titles; Duke fans were a bit like that in 1992; the celebration after Kentucky was comparatively subdued, especially considering the way Duke won), but you shouldn't be having bonfires after a regular season game unless it's the first time you've beaten a top-5 team in a long while.
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 10:01:21 -0400, Harry Everhart <harry@everhart.com> wrote:
navin <snivan@earthlink.net> wrote:>> It bothers me how Durham police treat Duke students like criminals when >> they burn too many benches even when they have a fire permit to do so, >> yet when people go crazy in Chapel Hill the Chapel Hill police let them >> do what they want.>
It is okay to have a bonfire every now and then - but with Duke winning >so darn much - they were having bonfires like Dean Smith was hanging >fake banners
the fires were probably overachieving.>
Do not be like UMD - they have riots - burn cars - etc - win or lose >
Let's hope that with all the cars cleared off Franklin Street on Monday >night it isn't so empty that they could land planes on it
here's another way to put it. Let's hope there are a great number of Heel fans on Franklin St. after watching their team in the championship game, and not the same number as the number of dook fans watching THEIR team in the championship game. >
Donnie Barnes wrote:> On Sun, 03 Apr, navin wrote:>
This is all from memory, but I remember Franklin Street going crazy when >>UConn beat Duke in 1999. Yes, they did later prosecute people they >>deemed responsible for the events. But in my opinion if that had >>happened at Duke it would have been 10 times bigger. For example, in >>2001, after the 10 pts/1 min comeback against Maryland, some students >>lit one bench on fire. The Durham Police went crazy, they immediately >>hosed down everything, put that one bench out, and then revoked all fire >>burning priveleges.>>
How many other schools even bother to apply for fire permits? At least >>Duke is trying to maintain some sort of order.>
Yeah, right. They want to have bon fires after every big win, and they> want them to be big fires. You have to get permits for that, which the> city was generously allowing. What's more, they were looking the other way> when the terms of the permit was violated *regularly* just as long as> things stayed *safe*. Then in this last instance when things got unsafe> they put a stop to it. For their efforts of maintaining public safety they> were cursed and had things thrown at them from the crowd.>
You have no leg to stand on here.>
First of all, Duke is private property, so they have their own police. >>The streets are private too. And you can look up all my posting >>history, I have never once condoned the actions of the students in >>Cameron. I was a little different, I used to get a lot of crap from >>others for not getting into the chants, etc. I would only make noise, >>in most part because I was there to watch the games, not for a social event.>
Events on a campus like that are a public gathering and the streets are> governed by the same laws as anywhere else. Underage drinking is still> illegal on your private campus and all other public drunkeness laws apply.> And Durham PD *does* patrol those streets before and after campus. They> certainly would *not* do that if they had no jurisdiction.>
Your inequity argument simply holds zero water from what I can tell having> spent time at *both* places recently. If anything, UNC-CH is a MUCH more> strict place on campus. Franklin Street is off campus and as such isn't as> strict, but it's still every bit as strict at anything controlled by the> Durham PD. IMHO, of course.
Here's an account from the N&O. It is about UNC's win over Duke this year. If this had happened at Duke without a permit, they would have called out the riot police. In fact it did happen, in 1998, for lesser stuff than this. Also, earlier in the article a CH officer states that the crowd was good for doing this, I suppose that is in comparison to the rocking/burning of cars that has happened before.
The fire department allowed two bonfires to burn on Franklin Street within the closed-off area. They put out a large one in front of Fraternity Court on Columbia Street and as many as a dozen smaller fires on side streets in the downtown area.
"People were setting them all over the place," Jones said. "For about an hour and a half we were chasing around, putting out trash fires and furniture fires."
Jones said that his department would be sending the fraternities invoices for the department's service of putting out the fires. He said fraternities appeared to be responsible for several of the fires outside the closed-off area.
The police aided the firefighters by trying to stop larger pieces of flammable material from reaching the fires on Franklin Street.
"At the end of the event the other night, we had a huge stack of wood pallets, cardboard boxes, pieces of furniture that we kept from getting into the crowd."
Caption: A UNC fan jumps over a bonfire in the middle of Franklin Street after the Tar Heels' 75-73 victory over Duke on Sunday.
Sure, the car turning over incident on Franklin Street was worse, IMHO.> But the people responsible were arrested and prosecuted. They have used> mob control measures in the past. What more do you want? I do not believe> anything other than that car has been seriously damaged in recent history,> nor has anyone been hurt.
Wasn't there a celebratory death on Franklin St. not too many years back? All these post-win riots from everywhere run together, but I seem to remember something.
Sure, the car turning over incident on Franklin Street was worse, IMHO.>> But the people responsible were arrested and prosecuted. They have used>> mob control measures in the past. What more do you want? I do not >> believe>> anything other than that car has been seriously damaged in recent >> history,>> nor has anyone been hurt.>
Wasn't there a celebratory death on Franklin St. not too many> years back? All these post-win riots from everywhere run together,> but I seem to remember something.
It's possible you're remembering the man who got hit by a car on Columbia Street after Halloween a few years ago.
On Sun, 03 Apr, navin wrote:> Here's an account from the N&O. It is about UNC's win over Duke this > year. If this had happened at Duke without a permit, they would have > called out the riot police. In fact it did happen, in 1998, for lesser > stuff than this. Also, earlier in the article a CH officer states that > the crowd was good for doing this, I suppose that is in comparison to > the rocking/burning of cars that has happened before.
I don't understand your claim. Police kept fires from getting large by keeping big stuff out of them. In Durham, the police tried and *couldn't* keep the large items out of the fires and subsequently had to let the fire department do their thing with FIRE HOSES to stop the rowdy crowd. No one was arrested in either case, but in Chapel Hill at least the guilty parties had to pay for the extra police "service" since it was their actions that caused it. I'm betting Duke pays the city extra for event services, too, which more than likely blanket covers whatever they do up to a point.
Sounds like similar treatment, except your crowd gets more out of hand, car incident notwithstanding.
On Sun, 03 Apr, Charlie Board wrote:> Wasn't there a celebratory death on Franklin St. not too many> years back? All these post-win riots from everywhere run together,> but I seem to remember something.
There was a shooter with a rifle on Franklin St about 5 years ago. It had nothing to do with sports - just nuts - sometimes it is hard to separate them.
Franklin St is a very nice downtown for a college town - even duke kids go there to hang out. Too bad the place is wasted on UNC
Donnie Barnes wrote:> On Sun, 03 Apr, navin wrote:>
Here's an account from the N&O. It is about UNC's win over Duke this >>year. If this had happened at Duke without a permit, they would have >>called out the riot police. In fact it did happen, in 1998, for lesser >>stuff than this. Also, earlier in the article a CH officer states that >>the crowd was good for doing this, I suppose that is in comparison to >>the rocking/burning of cars that has happened before.>
I don't understand your claim. Police kept fires from getting large by> keeping big stuff out of them. In Durham, the police tried and *couldn't*> keep the large items out of the fires and subsequently had to let the fire> department do their thing with FIRE HOSES to stop the rowdy crowd. No one> was arrested in either case, but in Chapel Hill at least the guilty parties> had to pay for the extra police "service" since it was their actions that> caused it. I'm betting Duke pays the city extra for event services, too,> which more than likely blanket covers whatever they do up to a point.
No, my claim is that police laugh it off in Chapel Hill (probably because the police there feel like they're part of the UNC community) whereas at Duke they call the riot police.
Sounds like similar treatment, except your crowd gets more out of hand, car> incident notwithstanding.
"Police closed off the 100 block of Franklin Street as revelers built two small bonfires with newspapers and cardboard. Within an hour, officers retook the block, causing fans to cheer back and forth across the street. "Tar!" the south side shouted in unison. "Heels!" replied the north. Then a couple of fireworks lit up the sky."
I got 76 entries in the last 10 years on Franklin Street bonfires. All of those bonfires were spontaneous. Duke gets a permit for their bonfires, but when even a small one happens without a permit, it gets shut down immediately.
On Mon, 04 Apr, Harry Everhart wrote:> There was a shooter with a rifle on Franklin St about 5 years ago. It > had nothing to do with sports - just nuts - sometimes it is hard to > separate them.
That was the Williamson kid, IIRC. Yes, had nothing to do with sports. I believe he will be spending the rest of his days at Dorothea Dix.
On Mon, 04 Apr, navin wrote:> No, my claim is that police laugh it off in Chapel Hill (probably > because the police there feel like they're part of the UNC community) > whereas at Duke they call the riot police.
Please cite these instances of "riot police."
Sounds like similar treatment, except your crowd gets more out of hand, car>> incident notwithstanding.>
No way.
Look, you've cited articles that said UNC students lit "bonfires", but there's no description of how large they are or anything. You've even posted links where students *tried* to put large items on them and police didn't let them. That's what they do. At Duke they couldn't (or didn't) stop them from putting big items on there, they just put them out and revoked the permit.
Now, you've not shown me where you *needed* a permit for any of the fires that were started in CH. Maybe you don't in CH. Maybe you don't if they stay below a certain size. I don't know. What I do know is that in both places the police and fire departments have done a good job of keeping order, with the lone car flip incident being the black eye in CH. They have made pretty damned sure that can't happen again, however.
So while I'm not claiming CH is any *better* than Durham, I also don't think they're any more lenient. We've seen plenty of cases of people going nuts on Franklin Street, yet no significant damage or injury (again, lone car incident aside). It's not like the CHPD doesn't have plenty of practice with closing the streets of town for big parties, either (Halloween every year is practice enough).
Why don't you whine about the people who chose to ignore the VERY repeated attempts by the DFD to let students celebrate *properly*? Hell, *I* knew ahead of time that there was a bench limit *and* a ban on anything other than the benches being in the fire at Duke, and I don't even attend the university, don't spend any time in that part of Durham, and generally don't keep up with much of ANYTHING related to Duke. Why? Because it was on the mainstream triangle-wide news. If it was there, I *know* the folks around campus had it pretty well advertised, too. And yet the drunken morons who had been given every bit of leniency imaginable got out of hand and got shut down. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
It is quite funny that you'd try to make some comparison to UNC out of it, but you have nobody to blame but Duke students.
Geoffrey F. Green 4 April 2005 06:51:19 [ permanent link ]
In article <slrnd518tg.6hr.djbSPAMSUCKS@localhost.localdomain>, Donnie Barnes <djbSPAMSUCKS@donniebarnes.com> wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr, Harry Everhart wrote:> > There was a shooter with a rifle on Franklin St about 5 years ago. It > > had nothing to do with sports - just nuts - sometimes it is hard to > > separate them. >
That was the Williamson kid, IIRC. Yes, had nothing to do with sports. I> believe he will be spending the rest of his days at Dorothea Dix.
Don't forget the law student who went nutso about ten years ago. Just while I was applying for law school. Didn't really endear me to the school. (But I did get end, so feh!)
"Geoffrey F. Green" <geoff-usenet2@stuebegreen.com> wrote in news:geoff-usenet2-0D8051.22511803042005@comcast.dca.giganews.com:
In article <slrnd518tg.6hr.djbSPAMSUCKS@localhost.localdomain>,> Donnie Barnes <djbSPAMSUCKS@donniebarnes.com> wrote:>
On Mon, 04 Apr, Harry Everhart wrote:>> > There was a shooter with a rifle on Franklin St about 5 years ago.>> > It had nothing to do with sports - just nuts - sometimes it is hard>> > to separate them. >>
That was the Williamson kid, IIRC. Yes, had nothing to do with>> sports. I believe he will be spending the rest of his days at>> Dorothea Dix. >
Don't forget the law student who went nutso about ten years ago.
On Mon, 04 Apr, Geoffrey F. Green wrote:> Don't forget the law student who went nutso about ten years ago. Just > while I was applying for law school. Didn't really endear me to the > school. (But I did get end, so feh!)
Geoffrey F. Green 4 April 2005 15:08:41 [ permanent link ]
In article <slrnd51bnk.6hr.djbSPAMSUCKS@localhost.localdomain>, Donnie Barnes <djbSPAMSUCKS@donniebarnes.com> wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr, Geoffrey F. Green wrote:> > Don't forget the law student who went nutso about ten years ago. Just > > while I was applying for law school. Didn't really endear me to the > > school. (But I did get end, so feh!)>
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