64 or 65 team tournament ?

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GYXU > Basketball > 64 or 65 team tournament ? 16 March 2005 04:54:43

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64 or 65 team tournament ?
Tim923 16 March 2005 04:54:43
	With the play-in game, should the NCAA Tournament now be considered a 65 team tournament, or is the play-in more like a qualification game to merely make the 64 team tournament? Maybe they should have 4 or 8 play-in games.
		Add comment


Geoffrey F. Green 15 March 2005 06:36:09 [ permanent link ]
	In article <fshc31dq66vnehc77ndgp02sjs9o3moq5s@4ax.com>, Tim923 <t923_1@yahoo.com> wrote: With the play-in game, should the NCAA Tournament now be considered a> 65 team tournament, or is the play-in more like a qualification game> to merely make the 64 team tournament?> Maybe they should have 4 or 8 play-in games. I think they should have 4, but put the last three teams in and the last three teams out in those matchups. It'd be more interesting than the dreck that is the current opening-round game.
		Add comment


William Holiday 15 March 2005 07:03:59 [ permanent link ]
	On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:30:13 -0500, Tim923 <t923_1@yahoo.com> wrote: <With the play-in game, should the NCAA Tournament now be considered a <65 team tournament, or is the play-in more like a qualification game <to merely make the 64 team tournament? The Ncaa kept the same number of at-large berths when another conference qualified for an automatic bid. Presumably as more institutions go Division 1 and more conferences form and qualify for automatic bids, the number of play-in games will expand. I think that makes it a 65 team tourney. hth-bk. <Maybe they should have 4 or 8 play-in games.
		Add comment


Perusion Hostmaster 15 March 2005 07:35:52 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-03-15, Geoffrey F. Green <geoff-usenet2@stuebegreen.com> wrote:> In article <fshc31dq66vnehc77ndgp02sjs9o3moq5s@4ax.com>,> Tim923 <t923_1@yahoo.com> wrote:> With the play-in game, should the NCAA Tournament now be considered a>> 65 team tournament, or is the play-in more like a qualification game>> to merely make the 64 team tournament?>> Maybe they should have 4 or 8 play-in games.> I think they should have 4, but put the last three teams in and the > last three teams out in those matchups. It'd be more interesting than > the dreck that is the current opening-round game. I think we should go down to 33 at larges, and the first eight teams that think they have been sorely snubbed can buy a chance for a PIG versus a 16 to enter on a 12 line. Everyone else shifts down one. The instigator of the PIG pays an entry fee and all their expenses. The fee should be stiff, like 80% of the one-round payout, to prevent casual tries. ($500,000? I don't know what the payout is these days). Assuming no takers by 9pm Sunday, the tourney proceeds normally. At that point, someone whines and you say "put up or shut up". Stupidly complex, I know, but I think it would add spice to have Buffalo and such be able to try and back up their words. Or as will happen occasionally, have their hats handed to them by the 16. 8-) -- Being against torture ought to be sort of a bipartisan thing. -- Karl Lehenbauer
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Milt Epstein 15 March 2005 07:53:30 [ permanent link ]
	Tim923 <t923_1@yahoo.com> writes: With the play-in game, should the NCAA Tournament now be considered a>65 team tournament, or is the play-in more like a qualification game>to merely make the 64 team tournament?> Maybe they should have 4 or 8 play-in games. The play-in -- sorry, opening round -- game they introduced a few years ago with the move to 65 teams is not without precedent. For instance, back in 1983 and 1984 they had opening round games. They had 48 teams in the main part of the bracket back then. In 1983 they had four opening round games (two in Dayton, two in Philadelphia). In 1984 they had five (same locations). I don't know what the specific circumstances were for those, although it was probably something similar to the current circumstances (more automatic conference qualifiers, wanting to keep the number of at large teams the same). Anyone? Here's some more data. They moved to 48 teams in 1980. In 1985 they moved to 64 teams. Here's the breakdown for conference qualifiers (Qs) and at large teams (AL) for the years 1980-1984: Teams Qs AL 1980 48 23 25 1981 48 26 22 1982 48 28 20 1983 52 28 24 1984 53 29 24 -- Milt Epstein mepstein@uiuc.edu
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TechGuy 15 March 2005 08:10:21 [ permanent link ]
	I like the idea of an 80-team tournament. Effectively it moves the bubble down the power rankings. One possible reason they don't do this is it either adds one more full weekend, making it a four weekend tournament... -or- it creates a hectic bunch of 16 games on Tuesday or Wednesday the first week. Can you imagine having to get everyones picks done by Tuesday?
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James Gibson 15 March 2005 22:27:31 [ permanent link ]
	Milt Epstein <mepstein@uiuc.edu> wrote in news:d15nke$87g$1 @news.ks.uiuc.edu: Your info is off at least somewhat. I just posted some of the> relevant info about the years they had those other play-in/opening> round games. The info comes from the Official 2001 NCAA Final Four> Tournament Records book. 2001 was the first year they had the current> play-in/opening round game. They refer to those games as "Opening> Round", not "Play-in", both in the 1983-1984 brackets and the 2001> bracket. There were four such opening round games in 1983 and five in> 1984, never three. Here's the table I posted regarding the number of> qualifiers/at-large teams in those years (I've added 1985).> Teams Qs AL> 1980 48 23 25> 1981 48 26 22> 1982 48 28 20> 1983 52 28 24> 1984 53 29 24> 1985 64 29 35> As you can see, the number of automatic conference qualifiers never> went down over that time period. In fact, it was the number of> at-large bids that went down in the years prior to their adding the> opening round games.> But he is right about 3 play-in games that were not officially part of the tournament in the early '90s. I don't know where you could find the official record, but the reason I remember - Fordham lost one of these play-in games, but was still eligible and received a bid for the NIT. I think it was 1990/1991. These play-in games were the same week as the major conference tournaments.
		Add comment


Milt Epstein 16 March 2005 00:27:14 [ permanent link ]
	James Gibson <jgibson_hmc95@yahoo.com> writes: [ ... ]>But he is right about 3 play-in games that were not officially part>of the tournament in the early '90s. I don't know where you could>find the official record, but the reason I remember - Fordham lost>one of these play-in games, but was still eligible and received a bid>for the NIT. I think it was 1990/1991. These play-in games were the>same week as the major conference tournaments. Here are some pages that mention these games: http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/Onions/031804.htm It was important, too, because this was a year [1991] when three play-in games were played before the tourney, since the number of Division I conferences had swelled to 33 and the automatic bid total was frozen at 30. http://www.infoplease.com/spot/01ncaapreview1.html Get used to the play-in game because it will be around for the foreseeable future. The last time the tournament staged a play-in game was 1991 when teams from the six lowest ranked conferences in the Ratings Percentage Index (RPI) played for three berths. St. Francis (Pa.), Coastal Carolina and Northeast Louisiana all made the tourney, but immediately lost in the first round. http://www.lufkindailynews.com/sports/content/shared/sports/ncaa/mbasketball/tournament/milestones.html I didn't remember them, and I don't think they were mentioned in the Final Four Records book (I don't have it with me right now). -- Milt Epstein mepstein@uiuc.edu
		Add comment


Mark Foskey 16 March 2005 03:54:01 [ permanent link ]
	TechGuy wrote:> I like the idea of an 80-team tournament. Effectively it moves the> bubble down the power rankings. I think the bubble is plenty far enough down the power rankings already. What they oughtta do is go back to 48. That had the most exciting first and second round action, since the seedings were less lopsided. (I think seeding has more to do with it than one of the teams coming off a longer break.) And it made the regular season more meaningful since it was harder to get in. Of course, they'd have to be pickier about which conferences got automatic bids. They should at least go back to 64. They could more than make up for the lost at-large spot by announcing before the conference tournaments the number of bids each conference would get. That would give the stronger teams in each conference a little incentive in their tournaments.
		Add comment

GYXU > Basketball > 64 or 65 team tournament ? 16 March 2005 04:54:43

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