Bonds or Clemens?

How can I spare bandwidth while using the site?

Hello Guest

• Login
• Register…
• Start blog

• Who, Where, When
• What can I do?
• What to Read?

• Polls
• Avatars
• Interests

• Cities and Countries
• Random blog
• Users search

• Search
• Games
• Tests
• GYXU

• Сообщества
• Talxy Chat
• Horoscope
• Online

Зарегистрируйся!

GYXU > Baseball > Bonds or Clemens? 29 May 2005 09:16:36

Recent blog posts:

pipiska!!!upja4ka!!!pshli…
pipiska!!!upja4ka!!!pshli nax!!!

UPJA4KA!!!
TUTSJAPI6!!PI6!ZEPJ EBRILO!!!!!ZAZA!!!TELOIDI, DA! MY – EBANULISJ!!!PI6! PI6! PI6! OJAEBU!!I…

Hi!
Hi! I am Kate from Ukraine! I don't now, everything about this website. Also I dodn't know english very…

...
http://gyxu.com/p/login.cgi?r=http://www.winxclub.com/

ONOTOLE NEGODUE
Blin, nu zaipali trabli s ssilkami.Zaxozu kuda to - BAZ! i ja snova gostj.Vxozu i vse norma,no…

Sri Lanka Vs West Indies
Sri Lanka won the first match by more than 100 runs…this is first in West Indies. .unfortunately after…

Blog Feed
http://feeds.feedburner.com/TumbleweedRealtyMaui

:-)
:-)

...

...

They have birthday today:

Anne Marie

все >>

Forums:

topic feeds

• GYXU all topics, blogs and comments

• General

• F1, Indy, Nascar, Rally

• Baseball

• Basketball

• Boxing

• Football

• Soccer

• Hockey

• Rugby

• Tennis

• Pro Wrestling

• Billiard

• Cycling

• Boats

• Kites, widsurfing, waterski

• Diving

• Skiing

• Cricket

• Golf

• Skating

• Buy / Sell

• Anonymous

Discuss:

To Bush + the HELPER OSAMA…
To Bush + the HELPER OSAMA B.L.!=()- BUSH, were you AWARE on WTC SHAME ??? IF you don't were…

considering with respect to…
Walt wrote on 17 Oct 2008 19:55:28 GMT: http://finance.dostii.net -- Many semantic…

McCain, Why must process 5…
McCain, Why must process 5 Israeli Jews ? We victims of 11 September, can not be satisfied without…

deprive Bollywood
Andrew wrote on 10 Oct 2008 11:52:08 GMT: http://twist.dostii.net -- Tell Kareem it's…

scatter Madhuri Dixit
Ron wrote on 10 Oct 2008 11:47:52 GMT: http://compensate.dostii.net -- Lately, Mohammad…

Recent forum topics:

Chicago Speedway/Sportsman's…
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-090105-sportsmans…

Ski Resorts Where Lifts Go…
I am looking for (affordable) ski resorts in the Western US or Canada that meet these criteria: - The…

Nordic Xplained - A New Blog…
Hi Everyone, Well the Tour is over again and I've decided to create a new blog where I will discuss…

Junior curling
I've spent the week-end officiating at PEI's provincial curling championship. It seems to me that our…

Recent forum comments:

RE: A buck?
Thus spake Ruddell <ruddell'Elle-Kabong'@canada.com>: Three "interesting"…

RE: Sources: Petty to close shop…
Agreed: he seems to be angry enough at the folks who took over that he's no longer got any association…

RE: Led
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 09:58:02 +0000, Richard Edwards <poundeater@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote…

RE: Re: TV antenna
In article…

RE: Re: tour de ski & worlcup…
Thanks to BasilBrush for posting the videos! For anyone that missed them, at piratebay.com a search for…

RE: Re: Tour de ski LIVE?
Were you using the application and the live channels list? I don't see NRK there now…

RE: Re: Tour de ski LIVE?
shreddir wrote: :-) You noticed that both Marthe and Astrid got ill during the last night…

RE: washing ski boots?
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:54:48 -0700, gene@none.net wrote: Thanks -- will try it. I've been doing that…

RE: Garnet Hill and Lapland Lake
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote: In one sense you're quite…

RE: Re: Compressor Bags
Dear All, Going Nordic ski touring in Norway. Non-circular route so everything has to go into the one…

Moderators:

Administrator
Protorioris


Bonds or Clemens?
Captain 20 29 May 2005 09:16:36
	Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?
		Add comment


Dave Melvin 24 May 2005 04:37:02 [ permanent link ]
	"Captain 20" <c20@setyrtfj.77com> wrote in message news:cluke.3319$%Z2.1560@lakeread08...> Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?> Cal Riepken dam
		Add comment


Trent Woodruff 24 May 2005 05:57:59 [ permanent link ]
	Captain 20 was cut from the Baylor football team for saying... Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years? Ozzie Smith Trent Chairborne "Nine of Diamonds" Ranger ...To be a great NCO, you need three bones: a backbone, a wishbone and a funny bone.
		Add comment


David Marc Nieporent 24 May 2005 06:05:51 [ permanent link ]
	In article <cluke.3319$%Z2.1560@lakeread08>, "Captain 20" <c20@setyrtfj.77com> wrote: Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years? Rafael Ramirez. --------------------------------------------- David M. Nieporent nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu
		Add comment


Tarkus 24 May 2005 06:24:13 [ permanent link ]
	On 5/23/2005 7:05:51 PM, David Marc Nieporent wrote: In article <cluke.3319$%Z2.1560@lakeread08>,> "Captain 20" <c20@setyrtfj.77com> wrote:> Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?> Rafael Ramirez. I was gonna say Mark Lemke, but it's close. -- Why are they called "stands" when they're made for sitting? Now playing: the radio.
		Add comment


Bryan S . Slick 24 May 2005 06:30:59 [ permanent link ]
	[Dan Bretta nudan92@yahoo.com] [23 May 2005 19:00:10 -0700] :Trent Woodruff wrote: :> Ozzie Smith :At least you're consistent. And drunk, apparently. The correct answer is Barry Bonds. -- Bryan S. Slick, onyx_hokie at yahoo dot com "To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
		Add comment


Jpm III 24 May 2005 06:38:35 [ permanent link ]
	Captain 20 wrote in news:cluke.3319$%Z2.1560@lakeread08:> Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years? Depends. How accurate is all that Win Shares stuff?
		Add comment


Joel K. 'Jay' Furr 24 May 2005 06:38:53 [ permanent link ]
	"Dan Bretta" <nudan92@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1116900010.452259.45550 @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Trent Woodruff wrote:>> >Captain 20 was cut from the Baylor football team for saying...>> Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?>> Ozzie Smith>> At least you're consistent Clemens or Greg Maddux. As a Braves fan I may be somewhat biased, but Maddux was a hell of a pitcher and a hell of a fielder and didn't entirely suck at the plate. -- Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana
		Add comment


Jpm III 24 May 2005 06:39:23 [ permanent link ]
	Tarkus wrote in news:zzaqv7vzfuag.dlg@tarkus.karnevil9.com:> On 5/23/2005 7:05:51 PM, David Marc Nieporent wrote:> In article <cluke.3319$%Z2.1560@lakeread08>,> > "Captain 20" <c20@setyrtfj.77com> wrote:> > Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?> > Rafael Ramirez.> I was gonna say Mark Lemke, but it's close. Duh, Rafael Belliard!
		Add comment


Jpm III 24 May 2005 06:40:27 [ permanent link ]
	Joel K. 'Jay' Furr wrote in news:Xns965FE6634C9FEjfurrfurrsorg@216.168.3.44:> "Dan Bretta" <nudan92@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1116900010.452259.45550> @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:> Trent Woodruff wrote:> > > > Captain 20 was cut from the Baylor football team for saying...> > > Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?> > > Ozzie Smith> > > At least you're consistent> Clemens or Greg Maddux. As a Braves fan I may be somewhat biased, but> Maddux was a hell of a pitcher and a hell of a fielder and didn't> entirely suck at the plate. I'm a lifelong Braves fan who watched Maddux as closely as anyone during his time with Atlanta, and I've never liked Clemens much... but I recognize talent when I see it, and over the long haul, I think I prefer Clemens. Even if I like Maddux more.
		Add comment


Dale Hicks 24 May 2005 06:41:13 [ permanent link ]
	In article <Wswke.223$kv1.53@lakeread02>, jpmccord@hotmail.com says...> Captain 20 wrote in news:cluke.3319$%Z2.1560@lakeread08:> > Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?> Depends. How accurate is all that Win Shares stuff? Not at all. -- Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
		Add comment


John Rogers 24 May 2005 06:47:53 [ permanent link ]
	Yeah, Tarkus <karnevil9@beer.com>, well... that's just like... your opinion man. On 5/23/2005 7:05:51 PM, David Marc Nieporent wrote:> In article <cluke.3319$%Z2.1560@lakeread08>,>> "Captain 20" <c20@setyrtfj.77com> wrote:>> Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?>> Rafael Ramirez.> I was gonna say Mark Lemke, but it's close. The correct answer is Jeff Blauser, you dumnasses. John Rogers AU Class of 1985 The Nail Gun of Quiet Reflection The Al Del Greco of Atlanta "Subordination is the natural order: there is subordination in Heaven - Thrones and Dominions take precendence over Powers and Principalities, Archangels and ordinary foremast angels; and so it is in the Navy. You have come to the wrong shop for anarchy, brother." (Captain Jack Aubrey, R.N. "The Ionian Mission)
		Add comment


Dvd Avins 24 May 2005 06:51:28 [ permanent link ]
	JPM III wrote:> Tarkus wrote in news:zzaqv7vzfuag.dlg@tarkus.karnevil9.com:>>On 5/23/2005 7:05:51 PM, David Marc Nieporent wrote:>>>In article <cluke.3319$%Z2.1560@lakeread08>,>>> "Captain 20" <c20@setyrtfj.77com> wrote:>>> Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?>>> Rafael Ramirez.>> I was gonna say Mark Lemke, but it's close.> Duh, Rafael Belliard! Chris Truby could eat them all for breakfast. And will. -- Any time you get members of a government preaching out -against government-, it's a sure bet they're looking to replace it with whatever ELSE they own. -- Skyler Bode
		Add comment


Corby Gilmore 24 May 2005 07:56:40 [ permanent link ]
	"Captain 20" (c20@setyrtfj.77com) writes:> Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years? Neither one. As much as I am NOT a fan of his, I would rate ARod over both of them. -- Corby Gilmore corby@ncf.ca
		Add comment


The Dave© 24 May 2005 08:11:17 [ permanent link ]
	Captain 20 wrote:> Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years? Buddy Biancalana -- Dave says... fire Dave Hudgens
		Add comment


Jpm III 24 May 2005 11:24:07 [ permanent link ]
	Dvd Avins wrote in news:QEwke.9461$BF5.4229@trndny06:> JPM III wrote:> > Tarkus wrote in news:zzaqv7vzfuag.dlg@tarkus.karnevil9.com:> > > On 5/23/2005 7:05:51 PM, David Marc Nieporent wrote:> > > > In article <cluke.3319$%Z2.1560@lakeread08>,> > > > "Captain 20" <c20@setyrtfj.77com> wrote:> > > > Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?> > > > Rafael Ramirez.> > > I was gonna say Mark Lemke, but it's close.> > Duh, Rafael Belliard!> Chris Truby could eat them all for breakfast. And will. Herb Washington?
		Add comment


Jpm III 24 May 2005 11:25:01 [ permanent link ]
	Corby Gilmore wrote in news:d6u8lo$2am$1@theodyn.ncf.ca:> "Captain 20" (c20@setyrtfj.77com) writes:> > Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?> Neither one. As much as I am NOT a fan of his, I would rate ARod> over both of them. Well if we were rating players who have played since 1986, I'd take Albert Pujols.
		Add comment


Captain 20 24 May 2005 17:53:10 [ permanent link ]
	I'm a lifelong Braves fan who watched Maddux as closely as anyone during time with Atlanta, and I've never liked Clemens much... but I recognize> talent when I see it, and over the long haul, I think I prefer Clemens. Even> if I like Maddux more. RJ is the only pitcher comparable to Clemens over the past 20 yrs. He's ahead of maddux and pedro. Better than Clemens at his peak, too. Just not as long-run consistent.
		Add comment


Edward Ruggeri 24 May 2005 20:32:19 [ permanent link ]
	On Tue, 24 May 2005 08:53:10 -0500, Captain 20 <c20@setyrtfj.77com> wrote: RJ is the only pitcher comparable to Clemens over the past 20 yrs. He's> ahead of maddux and pedro. Even as a Yankees fan, I still have to say that Pedro's ERA, and adjusted ERA+ are amazing. -- Ned Ruggeri
		Add comment


Lance Freezeland 24 May 2005 23:11:52 [ permanent link ]
	On Mon, 23 May 2005 19:13:35 -0500, "Captain 20" <c20@setyrtfj.77com> gave us: Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years? ^^^ Pee Wee Herman -- Lance "Economics played a role. Raleighs have gone from six fifty to nine dollars a carton, but there's a three-quarter cent coupon on the back. You can get all kinds of things with them, blenders, everything. I saved up enough one time and got Al Bumbry." -- Earl Weaver ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
		Add comment


Jpm III 25 May 2005 10:49:26 [ permanent link ]
	Captain 20 wrote in news:blGke.3977$%Z2.296@lakeread08:> I'm a lifelong Braves fan who watched Maddux as closely as anyone> > during his time with Atlanta, and I've never liked Clemens much...> > but I recognize talent when I see it, and over the long haul, I> > think I prefer Clemens. Even if I like Maddux more.> RJ is the only pitcher comparable to Clemens over the past 20 yrs.> He's ahead of maddux and pedro. Better than Clemens at his peak, too.> Just not as long-run consistent. Pedro shouldn't even be mentioned yet. Give him another five years and I suspect he'll be comparable. If he lasts much longer than that, he might even be considered more highly...
		Add comment


Jpm III 25 May 2005 10:49:47 [ permanent link ]
	Edward Ruggeri wrote in news:op.sraf75c57qi7tm@ned-ruggeri.uchicago.edu:> On Tue, 24 May 2005 08:53:10 -0500, Captain 20 <c20@setyrtfj.77com>> wrote:> > RJ is the only pitcher comparable to Clemens over the past 20 yrs.> > He's ahead of maddux and pedro.> Even as a Yankees fan, I still have to say that Pedro's ERA, and> adjusted ERA+ are amazing. Hits-per-9IP. People just can't hit him.
		Add comment


Captain 20 25 May 2005 18:57:33 [ permanent link ]
	RJ is the only pitcher comparable to Clemens over the past 20 yrs.> > He's ahead of maddux and pedro. Better than Clemens at his peak, too.> > Just not as long-run consistent.> Pedro shouldn't even be mentioned yet. Give him another five years and I> suspect he'll be comparable. Yes, he's certainly put up some years that are as good as anyone's, but doesn't yet have the longevity. -- "if federal judges have the final word over its meaning, the Constitution would be a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please". - Thomas Jefferson
		Add comment


Tanner 25 May 2005 20:58:10 [ permanent link ]
	Dave Melvin wrote: "Captain 20" <c20@setyrtfj.77com> wrote in message > news:cluke.3319$%Z2.1560@lakeread08...> Who's the best ballplayer of the past 20 years?>> Cal Riepken You'd think if he were really the best player, you'd know how to spell his name. Everyone knows it's spelled Ripkin. GT
		Add comment


Jpm III 26 May 2005 09:14:22 [ permanent link ]
	Captain 20 wrote in news:Gn0le.4044$%Z2.778@lakeread08:> RJ is the only pitcher comparable to Clemens over the past 20 yrs.> > > He's ahead of maddux and pedro. Better than Clemens at his peak,> > > too. Just not as long-run consistent.> > Pedro shouldn't even be mentioned yet. Give him another five years> > and I suspect he'll be comparable.> Yes, he's certainly put up some years that are as good as anyone's,> but doesn't yet have the longevity. ..."as good as"... Scratch that. Try "better than"! But, as you say, he doesn't yet have the longevity. If his numbers are still the best in five years, then he deserves much more acclaim!
		Add comment


Dvd Avins 27 May 2005 00:28:39 [ permanent link ]
	JPM III wrote:> Captain 20 wrote in news:Gn0le.4044$%Z2.778@lakeread08:> RJ is the only pitcher comparable to Clemens over the past 20 yrs.>>>>He's ahead of maddux and pedro. Better than Clemens at his peak,>>>>too. Just not as long-run consistent.>>> Pedro shouldn't even be mentioned yet. Give him another five years>>>and I suspect he'll be comparable.>> Yes, he's certainly put up some years that are as good as anyone's,>>but doesn't yet have the longevity.> ..."as good as"... Scratch that. Try "better than"! But, as you say, he > doesn't yet have the longevity. If his numbers are still the best in five > years, then he deserves much more acclaim! Better than on a per-inning basis, but unless you count IP within a season a longevity instead of being better or worse, I don't think Martinez's best seasons have been netter than Clemens' Maddux's and Johnson's. -- Any time you get members of a government preaching out -against government-, it's a sure bet they're looking to replace it with whatever ELSE they own. -- Skyler Bode
		Add comment


Jpm III 27 May 2005 21:00:06 [ permanent link ]
	Dvd Avins wrote in news:Xjqle.2132$zb.1006@trndny04:> JPM III wrote:> > Captain 20 wrote in news:Gn0le.4044$%Z2.778@lakeread08:> > RJ is the only pitcher comparable to Clemens over the past 20> > > > > yrs. He's ahead of maddux and pedro. Better than Clemens at> > > > > his peak, too. Just not as long-run consistent.> > > > Pedro shouldn't even be mentioned yet. Give him another five> > > > years and I suspect he'll be comparable.> > > Yes, he's certainly put up some years that are as good as> > > anyone's, but doesn't yet have the longevity.> > ..."as good as"... Scratch that. Try "better than"! But, as you> > say, he doesn't yet have the longevity. If his numbers are still> > the best in five years, then he deserves much more acclaim!> Better than on a per-inning basis, but unless you count IP within a> season a longevity instead of being better or worse, I don't think> Martinez's best seasons have been netter than Clemens' Maddux's and> Johnson's. Maybe not all of them, but Pedro's 1997 was stellar: 241.1 IP, 158 H, 67 BB, 51 ER, 305 K, 1.90 ERA. And Maddux's two best seasons were 1994 (202 IP) and 1995 (209.2 IP). Granted, he pitched a lot more innings in other seasons with significantly higher ERAs than his 1.56 and 1.63 those two years, and he was arguably more valuable to his team for about five of those years, but I still say Maddux and Martinez are comparable even now. I look at it this way: Maddux has a 2.97 career ERA that began in the low-offense late-80s (also take into consideration his rookie year ERA of 5.61 in the offensive explosion of 1987). But then, as hitting got better in the 1990s, so did Maddux... Same thing with Clemens, except his numbers bounced up and down since 1993. Clemens is definitely a dominant pitcher, but he also gives up plenty of runs. Martinez has a career 2.72 ERA almost exlusively in the high-offense era. Maddux and Clemens both have a career ERA+ of 141 ... Pedro's is 167. Granted, Pedro has pitched in about half as many innings (about 2300 to 4300 and 4500), but he'll retire with close to 3500 innings pitched and I think his numbers will be better by that time. And, rate-wise. they already are.
		Add comment


Dvd Avins 28 May 2005 21:08:38 [ permanent link ]
	JPM III wrote: [disucssing Pedro's value over his career, vs. Maddux, Clemens, and Johnson's,] If you're comparing them all to an average pitcher, maybe Pedro's done as much; I'll check before the end of this post. But if you consider that any inning not covered by the pitchers you want will probably get covered by lousy pitchers, Pedro's short career means that he just hasn't taken enough innings away from the lousy pitchers. I use .400-level pitching as replacement value win PWAR. (That's Pitching Wins Above Replacement.) Here's what I get for all of them, year by year: Pitcher Clemens Maddux Johnson Martinez 1984 1.2 1985 2.5 1986 9.6 -0.2 1987 9.5 -0.5 1988 7.8 4.6 0.8 1989 6.6 5.9 0.0 1990 10.6 4.9 3.4 1991 9.9 5.5 2.7 1992 9.7 9.9 3.0 0.3 1993 2.6 10.2 7.0 3.5 1994 (short) 6.8 10.8 5.8 3.2 1995 (short) 2.6 11.0 9.4 4.1 1996 7.2 8.8 1.7 4.3 1997 12.8 9.9 9.4 11.5 1998 9.3 10.7 6.8 8.3 1999 1.8 4.8 10.8 10.8 2000 5.7 8.5 9.9 11.8 2001 5.4 7.1 10.3 4.9 2002 2.1 6.9 11.1 8.7 2003 3.7 3.0 1.9 8.7 2004 6.6 3.8 9.4 5.1 total 132 123 103 86 Compared to average pitching, instead of replacement-level... total 83 77 65 60 Comparing to average is a mistake when assessing value, but here it is. It brings Pedro closer, but he's still behind the other three for now. Maybe not all of them, but Pedro's 1997 was stellar:> 241.1 IP, 158 H, 67 BB, 51 ER, 305 K, 1.90 ERA. In a league-park context of 4.21. In the very same year, Clemens had an ERA of 2.05 over 264 IP in a league-park context of 4.62. Given the difference in leagues, Clemens pitched longer and better. And Maddux's two best seasons were 1994 (202 IP) and 1995 (209.2 IP). Those were short seasons. He may have had 'only' 10.8 and 11.0 PWAR those years, but he was both a workhorse and about as dominating as could be. Especially in 1994. <snip> Maddux and Clemens both have a career ERA+ of 141 ... Pedro's is 167. A 141 ERA+ translates to about a .665 W%. A 178 ERA+ translates to about .736. So if they all pitched about 127 IP, you could expect Pedro's teams to win one more game. But then Clemens and Maddux go on to pitch more, against weak pitchers. And Clemens's and Maddux's teams would win an extra game for every 34 IP that Clemens or Maddux pitched while Pedro was on the bench. Randy Johnson's ERA+ is a smidge better than Clemens' and Johnson's. his 144 translates to about a .675 W%. -- Any time you get members of a government preaching out -against government-, it's a sure bet they're looking to replace it with whatever ELSE they own. -- Skyler Bode
		Add comment


Jpm III 29 May 2005 09:16:36 [ permanent link ]
	I use .400-level pitching as replacement value win PWAR. (That's> Pitching Wins Above Replacement.) Here's what I get for all of them,> year by year:> Pitcher Clemens Maddux Johnson Martinez> 1984 1.2> 1985 2.5> 1986 9.6 -0.2> 1987 9.5 -0.5> 1988 7.8 4.6 0.8> 1989 6.6 5.9 0.0> 1990 10.6 4.9 3.4> 1991 9.9 5.5 2.7> 1992 9.7 9.9 3.0 0.3> 1993 2.6 10.2 7.0 3.5> 1994 (short) 6.8 10.8 5.8 3.2> 1995 (short) 2.6 11.0 9.4 4.1> 1996 7.2 8.8 1.7 4.3> 1997 12.8 9.9 9.4 11.5> 1998 9.3 10.7 6.8 8.3> 1999 1.8 4.8 10.8 10.8> 2000 5.7 8.5 9.9 11.8> 2001 5.4 7.1 10.3 4.9> 2002 2.1 6.9 11.1 8.7> 2003 3.7 3.0 1.9 8.7> 2004 6.6 3.8 9.4 5.1> total 132 123 103 86> Compared to average pitching, instead of replacement-level...> total 83 77 65 60 Simple sums of first thirteen seasons: Greg: 91.5 Roger: 86.6 Pedro: 85.2 Johnson: 70.7 This does not consider age. Using bb-ref's method, Pedro started at age 20, so his 13th season counts as age 32. Reducing the others to age 32 means: only Randy's first 9 seasons count, Roger's first 12, and no change for Greg. Simple sums through age 32 (according to bb-ref age): Greg: 91.5 Pedro: 85.2 Roger: 79.4 Johnson: 33.8 Okay, so now longevity really is what matters! Clemens has lasted a good while (having ups and downs along the way), Johnson has obviously enjoyed most of his prime in his 30's, and Maddux was solidly brilliant from his mid-20s to mid-30s. Martinez has obviously been mostly brilliant throughout his 20s, and if he manages to make it a 20-season career, he'll get another 7 seasons (including this year). If he averages even a 5 PWAR for those seven seasons, he's at 120+ when he retires. And I suspect he'll have a couple more really good seasons to get to 120 by the end of 2007 or at least 2008 -- when he'll be 36. Clemens is on a good pace to raise the bar a little more this year, but I expect Martinez will be the only pitcher who compares to Clemens by the time they're both finished. Unless Clemens keeps pitching effectively into his mid-40s.
		Add comment

GYXU > Baseball > Bonds or Clemens? 29 May 2005 09:16:36

	see also: De Rossi with the Bionic Elbow!		пройди тесты:		see also: ...

Copyright © 2001—2008 GYXU
Idea: Miсhael Monashev
Помощь и задать вопросы можно в сообществе support.gyxu.com.
Сообщения об ошибках оставляем в сообществе bugs.gyxu.com.
Предложения и комментарии пишем в сообществе suggest.gyxu.com.
Информация для родителей.
Write us at:

If you would like to report an abuse of our service, such as a spam message, please .




Get comments by e-mail Add to favourites

Пожалуйста, относитесь к собеседникам уважительно, не используйте нецензурные слова, не злоупотребляйте заглавными буквами, не публикуйте рекламу и объявления о купле/продаже, а также материалы нарушающие сетевой этикет или УК РФ.

Bonds or Clemens?

Add new comment