In article <1112569824.759061.297680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, Raymond DiPerna <rdiperna@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Steve Cutchen wrote:> > In article <xzZ3e.7119901$f47.1308760@news.easynews.com>, Blair P.> > Houghton <b@p.h> wrote:> >
If you don't count Barry Bonds' self-imposed exile.> >
He's denying it, saying he only does shakes and stuff... and that> > there must be something in there causing the test to go false> positive.> >
Well, everyone always says this.> >
But MLB better be right. It would be a HUGE disaster if the first> guy> > busted ends up getting busted falsely.>
It's *already* something less than what the witch hunters had hoped> for. Sanchez has all of 4 career home runs. Not only that, but in> light of Sanchez's positive test, I think Greg Maddux should be tested> immediately if not sooner:>
Alex Sanchez: 4 HRs (1351 career ABs) ==> 1 HR every 337 ABs> Greg Maddux: 4 HRs (1330 career ABs) ==> 1 HR every 332.5 ABs
Dood's average went from 280 career to 320 last year. Had never hit over 289 before.
Besides, steriods is not just about bulk. It's about recovery and rehabilitation.
In article <1112574656.007596.270380@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, Raymond DiPerna <rdiperna@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Do steroids CAUSE> injuries, or PREVENT them by enhancing recovery? Both? If so, then it> just becomes a matter of picking whichever theory fits the facts, and I> don't find that very convincing.
Well, then, simply do some research so that you'll speak from a point of knowledge rather than the other way around.
I'm not going to write a book here, but suffice to say that steroids are a very powerful anti-inflammatory, and as such help the body recover from heavy activity. And specifically anabolic steroids exaggerate the increase muscle mass that occurs from exercise. But on the negative side they cause calcium loss from bones and have a strong suppressive effect on the immune system. It is these side effects that are the most serious. Others include liver, prostate and kidney cancer, high blood pressure, heart attacks and strokes.
"Raymond DiPerna" <rdiperna@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message news:1112569824.759061.297680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...> It's *already* something less than what the witch hunters had hoped> for. Sanchez has all of 4 career home runs. Not only that, but in> light of Sanchez's positive test, I think Greg Maddux should be tested> immediately if not sooner:>
Alex Sanchez: 4 HRs (1351 career ABs) ==> 1 HR every 337 ABs> Greg Maddux: 4 HRs (1330 career ABs) ==> 1 HR every 332.5 ABs
Alex Sanchez is primarily in the major leagues due to his speed(to cover ground in the outfield, steal bases, leg out infield hits, etc.). Sanchez is not using steroids to bulk up and hit homeruns ala Bonds, but probably using steroids to increase his sprint speed(think stripped gold medalist Ben Johnson and numerous other examples in the track world). It's as simple as that.
-- "They tease me now, telling me it was only a dream. But does it matter whether it was a dream or reality, if the dream made known to me the truth?" - Dostoevsky
I see your point about picking the theory to fit the facts, and I do>agree that there is a lot of that going on. However, just because>people are picking theories to fit the facts does not automatically>invalidate the theories either.
It may not invalidate the theory, per se, but it does invalidate the way that people are using the theory. If it's true that using steroids might either cause or prevent injuries, then looking at whether a player is injured a lot or a little is not a valid way of deciding whether he's using steroids. I'm inclined to think that general injury history is unlikely to be a reasonable thing to look at in any case, because there are enough players who are either very injury prone or injury free that any effect from steroids is likely to be lost in the noise. It's possible that certain _types_ of injuries are much more common among steroid users, in which case being unusually prone to those types of injuries would be a warning sign, but just looking at time on the DL isn't likely to get you anywhere.
-- Roger Moore | Master of Meaningless Trivia | (raj@alumni.caltech.edu) I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. -- James Madison
Blair P . Houghton 5 April 2005 10:14:39 [ permanent link ]
Steve Cutchen <maxfaq@earthlink.net> wrote:>In article <xzZ3e.7119901$f47.1308760@news.easynews.com>, Blair P.>Houghton <b@p.h> wrote:>
If you don't count Barry Bonds' self-imposed exile.>
He's denying it, saying he only does shakes and stuff... and that>there must be something in there causing the test to go false positive.>
Well, everyone always says this. >
But MLB better be right. It would be a HUGE disaster if the first guy>busted ends up getting busted falsely.
On the other hand, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if protein supplement companies were spiking their products with small doses of steroids in order to produce results and sell more.
They don't get to advertise the existence of the ingredient, but word-of-mouth spread by satisfied customers has always been a huge part of that business's marketing.
So if someone buys a couple of cans of the stuff Sanchez says he was drinking and assasy it and discovers something really wrong with it, this could get to be even bigger than baseball.
--Blair "Barry's still not going to get away with the Krispy Kreme defense."
On 3 Apr 2005 19:21:41 -0700, artyw2@yahoo.com wrote:
If it's Sanchez, obviously it's about recovery and NOT home runs.>
It's not about marginal players on bad teams ? MLB can say "look we did>something" without getting too many fans too upset. As a Pirate fan, I>worry that the next sacrficial lamb will come from Pittsburgh....
So you think it is a good idea to test only if it catches big name players? When small name players get caught it isn't such a good idea.
-- BubbaRumDum ---------------------------------------------------------- |"Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business | and too much of a business to be a sport." | William Wrigley Jr. ----------------------------------------------------------
->>But MLB better be right. It would be a HUGE disaster if the first guy -> ->>busted ends up getting busted falsely. -> ->I HOPE they are NOT. -> ->Think about it, if a guy like that is using them, how many players ->really are using them?
Sanchez seems like exactly the kind of player who would benefit from steroid use. A guy who is on the cusp between AAA and major leaguer would stand to gain more from a marginal performance boost than a middle-of-the-pack major leaguer like, say, Michael Barrett.
On the other hand, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if protein>supplement companies were spiking their products with small>doses of steroids in order to produce results and sell more.
This is not just a hypothetical. People who tested dietary supplements found that a shockingly large percentage contained active substances not on the label. ISTR that it's usually comparatively mild things like Andro rather than really potent anabolics, but this has caused positive tests before. Some sports that have very strong testing requirements now advise athletes not to take any off the shelf supplements to avoid being unknowingly doped.
-- Roger Moore | Master of Meaningless Trivia | (raj@alumni.caltech.edu) I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. -- James Madison
"Raymond DiPerna" <rdiperna@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message>news:1112569824.759061.297680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...>> It's *already* something less than what the witch hunters had hoped>> for. Sanchez has all of 4 career home runs. Not only that, but in>> light of Sanchez's positive test, I think Greg Maddux should be tested>> immediately if not sooner:>>
Alex Sanchez: 4 HRs (1351 career ABs) ==> 1 HR every 337 ABs>> Greg Maddux: 4 HRs (1330 career ABs) ==> 1 HR every 332.5 ABs>
Alex Sanchez is primarily in the major leagues due to his speed(to cover>ground in the outfield, steal bases, leg out infield hits, etc.). Sanchez>is not using steroids to bulk up and hit homeruns ala Bonds, but probably>using steroids to increase his sprint speed(think stripped gold medalist Ben>Johnson and numerous other examples in the track world). It's as simple as>that.
Has he been suspended for steroids specifically. The reports I heard specified only banned substances.
Ben Johnson had a very impressive build to go along with the speed. I know the workout regimen would be the determinant here, but what is Snachez' build like?
On the other hand, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if protein>>supplement companies were spiking their products with small>>doses of steroids in order to produce results and sell more.>
This is not just a hypothetical. People who tested dietary supplements>found that a shockingly large percentage contained active substances not>on the label. ISTR that it's usually comparatively mild things like Andro>rather than really potent anabolics, but this has caused positive tests>before. Some sports that have very strong testing requirements now advise>athletes not to take any off the shelf supplements to avoid being>unknowingly doped.
So we're getting back to 3-steak, a dozen eggs for breakfast diets again, like it was when I powerlifted oh so many years ago?
In article <d2u89s$dim$1@naig.caltech.edu>, Roger Moore <raj@alumnae.caltech.edu> wrote:>Blair P. Houghton <b@p.h> writes:>
On the other hand, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if protein>>supplement companies were spiking their products with small>>doses of steroids in order to produce results and sell more.>
This is not just a hypothetical. People who tested dietary supplements>found that a shockingly large percentage contained active substances not>on the label. ISTR that it's usually comparatively mild things like Andro>rather than really potent anabolics, but this has caused positive tests>before. Some sports that have very strong testing requirements now advise>athletes not to take any off the shelf supplements to avoid being>unknowingly doped.
Greg Rusedski beat a positive test for nandrolone by arguing that the cause of the positive test was a supplement distributed by the WTA trainers.
As I understand it though, there's no appeals process in the MLB testing program. Tough to believe that Fehr would agree to this.
On the other hand, there wasn't supposed to be an appeals process in tennis, but 30+ positive tests (plus a very real threat of a lawsuit from Rusedski) led the WTA to create one.
